Is anyone as frustrated as me, due to no 2008DDP info yet?????

[mickey2000]

Indeed, and Disney had better keep the two separate in their mind, and recognize the great value that that first group represents. That's not to say that they should ignore the rest, but we have to accept that that the purchasing behaviors of that first group can substantially trump the purchasing behaviors of that second group. We don't know, but Disney almost surely does, so we can make a very good guess about the reality based on the decisions Disney makes.

Believe me Disney DOES NOT CARE.
Got this letter months ago from disney shopping on line.
In order to be a Platinum member you had to have a lifetime spending of
$10,000 +. Yes I use to buy a lot of merchandise on line. However I am currently protesting and Di$ney will be lucky to get $100 a year from me.
Here is my email:


Best Guest ID Number: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Dear ,Xxxxxx Xxxxxxx
As a valued member of our Best Guest Program, we thank you for choosing us for authentic Disney Magic.

You have been such an integral part of our program throughout the years that we felt it important to extend your Platinum Best Guest benefits through June 30, 2007. However, at that time we will be discontinuing the Best Guest Program for all participants. We are hopeful that this advanced notice will allow you time to take advantage of your Platinum Best Guest benefits including:

Exclusive online offers
Free Standard Shipping on purchases and returns
10% discount on select items
We sincerely hope you will continue to be a 'familiar face' in our DisneyShopping.com family.

Steve Cook
Guest Services
Disney Shopping, Inc.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

So, the point is that the Disney servers are probably motivated on some level by the fact that they are making less money in reality (might be more on paper, though) and so they would rather take their chances on cash tips therefore they wanted to negotiate with Disney to stop including the tips in the DDP.

I'm pretty sure the servers weren't in favor of dropping the gratuity. At least, the servers who post here weren't.

 

[Sammie]

There have read some reports, not sure if it was just internet gibberish, that the "best customers" aren't customers that come back twice (or more) a year. The "best customers" are the ones that only make one or two Disney trips. Those customers spend a lot more $$$ on souvenirs. At least 10 years ago one source said the average Disney visitor, not the average DIS member makes one or two trips to WDW during their lifetime and those customers don't care if they run up their credit cards for a once in a lifetime trip.

The repeat customers, such as members of DIS, tend to know the money saving tricks more then the one time visitor.

Assume the rumors regarding the 2008 plan turn out to be true.
Many DIS members said the plan "provides too much food". Disney dropped the appetizer. Some DIS members said waiters were pushing desserts. Other DIS were concerned servers aren't motivated to give DDP guests good service. Disney seems to be dropping the tip. Other DIS described how to use the snack credit to pay for breakfast. It sounds like Disney may be cutting back the snack options.

That would also be a very accurate assessment of what Disney considers their best customers. They do not want the Net savvy guest that knows how to work a plan, or save money. They want, as LewisC said the, Pixie Dust In Their Eyes, blind to the cost, once in lifetime guest.

Disney does not care if they have repeat guests as long as they have enough "first time" guests to make the profits they want.

And then there is another category not mentioned much on the DIS because not many hang on Net forums, the "big" spenders who do come every year, stay a month and spend thousands in concierge and the deluxe plan.

 

[bicker]

I'm not sure I'd say they do not care -- rather, it is a matter of caring about each set of guests in the right measure, commensurate with what best fosters their overall objectives.

 

[JimMIA]

There have read some reports, not sure if it was just internet gibberish, that the "best customers" aren't customers that come back twice (or more) a year. The "best customers" are the ones that only make one or two Disney trips. Those customers spend a lot more $$$ on souvenirs. At least 10 years ago one source said the average Disney visitor, not the average DIS member makes one or two trips to WDW during their lifetime and those customers don't care if they run up their credit cards for a once in a lifetime trip.

I think your point is very well taken, Lewis. However...over time, the frequent flyers will spend more than the people who only visit a few times.

But it's not either, or. BOTH GROUPS are critically important to Disney, and they will do anything reasonable to satisfy both groups.

I can also tell you from personal experience that not every member of every "frequent flyer" family necessarily cares about running up the old credit card bill either! Some of us are quite adept at contributing to the GDP, thank you very much!

 

[angelmav]

I think that perhaps the one time guest held bigger sway in the past, but there is no way they could survive with that business model today. Lets face it, they have more competition for those travel dollars and a tougher sell to get people to choose their brand of entertainment where before they were the only game in town. To ignore the guests who undoubtably also are amongst the biggest purchasers of Disney licensed merchandise when not on vacation is perhaps a flawed approach. Thats not to say there accountants havent deemed it otherwise however.

 

[bicker]

I think your point is very well taken, Lewis. However...over time, the frequent flyers will spend more than the people who only visit a few times.

But how much of that will be profit? In some cases, suppliers are even "forced" to serve frequent customers, for whom every transaction is basically a break-even, or perhaps even a loss.

But it's not either, or. BOTH GROUPS are critically important to Disney, and they will do anything reasonable to satisfy both groups.

In the correct measure: Some groups warrant more attention since the attention itself pays off more with one versus the others. I believe that was the context of what Lewis was saying to you.

I can also tell you from personal experience that not every member of every "frequent flyer" family necessarily cares about running up the old credit card bill either! Some of us are quite adept at contributing to the GDP, thank you very much!

And this brings up the other inevitable truth: Unique individuals in the mass-market don't always factor into mass-market offerings and pricing. While they will try to learn what segment you're in, and send you PIN codes perhaps for certain things, generally, folks are offered a market offering.

 

[Pooh Bear Hugs]

Which is why it would make sense to keep the UK customers sweet rather than hit us with cuts. Will $2 to a £1 we can bring twice as much money in. The frequent visitors from the UK also tend to be the more well off amongst us as others are priced out of the market.

 

[suffolkprincess]

I'm pretty sure the servers weren't in favor of dropping the gratuity. At least, the servers who post here weren't.

That is good to hear, because it really made no sense to me. Somehow I had gotten the impression from this thread and others that removing the included tip from the DDP was part of the labor negotiations; I suppose it was a management side- thing and not a labor side thing, then.

 

[bicker]

Which is why it would make sense to keep the UK customers sweet rather than hit us with cuts.

Evidently, though, UK folks are willing to pay a substantial premium for the Dining Plan, and for all we know, it is clear that they'd still be willing to do so even with the still-not-yet-announced-but-suspected changes.

 

[BCV23]

Any thoughts on what will happen to us since we arrive late December, but leave early January???

Shan, posters on the DVC forums have been told by MS that checkins in 2007 would pay 2007 prices for the DDP even if their stay extended into 2008.

 

[Amyrlin]

Hmmm, i don't think we are really, it is simply that a lot of people know no different if they are coming for the first time, just the same as US visitors.

Reviews in the UK for the DDP when sold by Virgin indicate that it was not anywhere near as popualr as it would have been had the proce reflected the US price. I think you wioll also find that is why a lot of us tend to book direct with the US CRO.

In the case of Virgin, who are being discussed here (as they have the largest premium on the DDP) they have evidently made up thier minds that they will sell less DDP's but make more overall (higher profit on fewer sales) as thier target market are generally not the 'budget' concious travellers; there are many cheaper package tour companies.

Please don't stereotype us as we do not stereotype you

 

[illiniowl]

That is good to hear, because it really made no sense to me. Somehow I had gotten the impression from this thread and others that removing the included tip from the DDP was part of the labor negotiations; I suppose it was a management side- thing and not a labor side thing, then.

Actually (according to what was posted here back at the time) it was indeed negotiated as part of a new collective bargaining agreement by the union that includes the servers; however, the servers are very much a minority segment of the overall union membership.

 

[illiniowl]

That would also be a very accurate assessment of what Disney considers their best customers. They do not want the Net savvy guest that knows how to work a plan, or save money. They want, as LewisC said the, Pixie Dust In Their Eyes, blind to the cost, once in lifetime guest.

Disney does not care if they have repeat guests as long as they have enough "first time" guests to make the profits they want.

And then there is another category not mentioned much on the DIS because not many hang on Net forums, the "big" spenders who do come every year, stay a month and spend thousands in concierge and the deluxe plan.

There is a rule of thumb that 80% of your business comes from 20% of your customers. Repeat customers, and more specifically, repeat premium customers, are the lifeblood of most businesses, and I'm sure Disney Parks is no exception.

 

[bicker]

Yes, 80% of your profit comes from 20% of your customers. This is very much tied up in that allusion you make to "premium customers" -- i.e., customers who pay more than other customers, often for the same thing, so that they represent more profit for the same cost-of-service.

 

[tfc3rid]

Here is another thought to ponder. There was a recent article in the New York Post here about the rapidly increasing prices of food overall... Corn feed prices are skyrocketing due to its use as biofuel, therefore increasing the cost for raising cattle or sheep... And of course, that cost will inevitable get passed along to the consumer... That's why it costs $4.50 for a gallon of milk in NYC...

Prices for food are skyrocketing and Disney Dining has to ask itself, do we reduce quality while maintaining prices or try and maintain or enhance quality while raising prices...

 

[lenshanem]

Shan, posters on the DVC forums have been told by MS that checkins in 2007 would pay 2007 prices for the DDP even if their stay extended into 2008.

Thanks. So I wonder if ours will still include the appetizer, tip and tax throughout our trip???

 

[Sammie]

There is a rule of thumb that 80% of your business comes from 20% of your customers. Repeat customers, and more specifically, repeat premium customers, are the lifeblood of most businesses, and I'm sure Disney Parks is no exception.

Not if that 20% are first time guests. I will agree that for most businesses repeat customres are the lifeblood, which is why they offer perks for being a repeat customers.

However Disney has never offered a frequent guest program and I don't imagine they ever will. In fact they almost do the opposite. The people who get the PIN discount emails and post cards are the ones that do not come frequently or live in an geographic area that is known not to frequent Disney World.

If you ask Disney why they don't offer a frequent customer program, they will tell they do, it's called Disney Vacation Club.

 

[illiniowl]

Not if that 20% are first time guests. I will agree that for most businesses repeat customres are the lifeblood, which is why they offer perks for being a repeat customers.

However Disney has never offered a frequent guest program and I don't imagine they ever will. In fact they almost do the opposite. The people who get the PIN discount emails and post cards are the ones that do not come frequently or live in an geographic area that is known not to frequent Disney World.

If you ask Disney why they don't offer a frequent customer program, they will tell they do, it's called Disney Vacation Club.

I'm not going to dispute that first-time guests are "important" to Disney, but their primary importance is in their potential to become repeat guests (and hopefully, repeat guests who spend a ton of $$$), not in their profitability during that first-time visit. First-timers, on average, don't even know half the ways there are to give their money to Disney. I agree with you that Disney wants as many "who cares what it costs?"-mentality customers as possible, but that type of attitude (which is really just an extreme form of customer loyalty) is far more often cultivated by a business through repeat encounters with its customers than it is exhibited by people even before their very first encounter with the business. The truly profitable customers for Disney are much more likely to be repeat guests than first-timers, and there is no reason for me to offer you a discount on something I know you are going to buy (other than maybe to build goodwill, but there are many other ways besides discount programs to do that).

 

[JimMIA]

Not if that 20% are first time guests. I will agree that for most businesses repeat customres are the lifeblood, which is why they offer perks for being a repeat customers.

However Disney has never offered a frequent guest program and I don't imagine they ever will. In fact they almost do the opposite. The people who get the PIN discount emails and post cards are the ones that do not come frequently or live in an geographic area that is known not to frequent Disney World.

If you ask Disney why they don't offer a frequent customer program, they will tell they do, it's called Disney Vacation Club.

I sure hate to disagree with my pal Sammie, but I think Disney has a number of "frequent flyer" programs. AP is one, DDE is one because it's good for an entire year, AP discounts, Florida resident discounts (and there are a number of these - room discounts, AP, seasonal pass, park tickets, Florida DDE, etc ), local Orlando discounts like the late PM water park passes and PM Epcot passes for dining. And a LOT more.

As a DVC owner, I don't consider DVC a "frequent flyer" benefit program. I consider it more a marketing tool to create tens of thousands of long term frequent flyers.