Is anyone as frustrated as me, due to no 2008DDP info yet?????

[JimMIA]

Actually (according to what was posted here back at the time) it was indeed negotiated as part of a new collective bargaining agreement by the union that includes the servers; however, the servers are very much a minority segment of the overall union membership.

That's exactly right.

 

[JimMIA]

Thanks. So I wonder if ours will still include the appetizer, tip and tax throughout our trip???

This is a total SWAG, Shan, but my guess is everybody's DDP in 2008 will include a soup/salad option in place of the appy, tax, and NO gratuity. As the info received by UK folks indicates, that is no "starter" and no gratuity.

A viable option, I think, would be gratuity being included for paid DDP, but gratuity and/or tax not being included for FREE DDP. So, at the conclusion of each meal, FREE DDP folks would receive a bill for approximately 25% (18%+6.5% tax) of the menu price. That's a very fair deal, IMHO. YMMV.

Truth be told, none of us know -- or will know -- until the program is formally announced in the US.

 

[bicker]

Frequency, no matter how much frequent guests want to place focus on it, is a red herring. A customer that frequently takes advantage of a loss-leader is still a losing proposition for a business.

 

[JimMIA]

Frequency, no matter how much frequent guests want to place focus on it, is a red herring. A customer that frequently takes advantage of a loss-leader is still a losing proposition for a business.

The assumption that "frequent flyers" only use loss-leaders is just plain silly.

The whole point of regular customers is they are coming whether there is a deal or not.

Speaking for my own family, we visit WDW when we want to -- usually November and May -- and we don't even have any idea what "deals" are available. We go to Disney because we want to go to Disney.

 

[Sammie]

I sure hate to disagree with my pal Sammie, but I think Disney has a number of "frequent flyer" programs. AP is one, DDE is one because it's good for an entire year, AP discounts, Florida resident discounts (and there are a number of these - room discounts, AP, seasonal pass, park tickets, Florida DDE, etc ), local Orlando discounts like the late PM water park passes and PM Epcot passes for dining. And a LOT more.

As a DVC owner, I don't consider DVC a "frequent flyer" benefit program. I consider it more a marketing tool to create tens of thousands of long term frequent flyers.

Well pal, I don't mind disagreeing with you, it's all in good humor.

To me a Frequent Flyer program rewards a loyal customer that is devoted to that product and does not use another.

The programs you mention are good, but they are random discounted programs that are not consistent. AP discounts especially are very random and reward the person who books and then buys a pass for a one time visit as much as it does you, the frequent guest.

Also the reason Disney offers AP discounts is not to reward you for being a valued customer, but because they have rooms empty. Rooms are full and Disney can care less about you their loyal customer because their won't be a discount in sight.

The closest is the DDE and Florida resident discounts. But even those were offered to fill in the off months for Disney with locals. And lately in the last year there has been no off season, so I am not sure we will see many discounts in the future.

Prior to 9-11 discounts at Disney were few and far between and were mostly Floridia resident or seasonal. Disney was asked once in a newspaper article why they did not offer discounts similar to other travel destinations and their reply was, "if we offer them, people will begin to expect them and when we no longer need to offer discounts, people will get upset".

I think the upset is on the horizon.

 

[mousefan96]

Boy, you really like to pour salt on the wounds of other folk’s disappointments, and as usual miss out on the big picture.

If I, for example, like the DDP, and because I like the DDP so much I vacation at Disney every year, instead of say...Universal. My family of 5, with passes deluxe hotel and spending cash blow $8,000 including the DDP.

Now for 2008 I am, lets call it, disappointed with my no app., no tip, DDP. I then take a look at Universal for the first time in a long time. I decide to try it for 2008.
Even if I never go back to Universal again, Disney does not make up their lost $$, from the new slightly more profitable DDP, from me until 2030!!!

You should know this bicker...raise prices slowly, and with out much attention, or you will hurt yourself more than you help. The new Disney is only interested in the quick fix to pad the exec of the month's personal resume'.

 

[dwpersio]

Has Disney actually confirmed these changes, or has all the rumors come from outside sources?

 

[TDC Nala]

I dont' think there's any way that in the ten short trips that I make a year (DVC member with discounted annual pass), I will spend as much as a first-timing family of 4 staying onsite for one week with a resort/tickets package.

I'm sure Disney knows that, too.

 

[DCDisney]

Disney does not care if they have repeat guests as long as they have enough "first time" guests to make the profits they want.

I'm sure WDW realizes that with the changes to the DDP a number of people (DISers) who know the true costs of things won't do it realizing if every TS meal isn't an expensive place with an expensive entree you lose money. They are counting on people who don't know what things cost buying the plan and then eating at CP, Chef Mickey's, etc and actually paying more for the DDP than what they are getting for the convenience factor. If they don't sell as much as they want to I'm sure they can just ramp up the special packages if they need to. Maybe we'll start seeing Kids eat free promos or double snack promos etc if sales drop off?

Yvonne

 

[bicker]

The assumption that "frequent flyers" only use loss-leaders is just plain silly.

Good thing no one said that. C'mon, Jim. Please don't misquote me. This is what I wrote:

Frequency, no matter how much frequent guests want to place focus on it, is a red herring. A customer that frequently takes advantage of a loss-leader is still a losing proposition for a business.

The point is that frequency is meaningless. If you want to matter more, you have to be frequent and profitable, or infrequent and profitable. Either of those.

The whole point of regular customers is they are coming whether there is a deal or not.

Yes, and that's important.

 

[bicker]

Boy, you really like to pour salt on the wounds of other folk’s disappointments

Not at all. Rather, I think people benefit from embracing reality, when it comes to the business side of things.

and as usual miss out on the big picture.

I present the big picture, especially when that's what is missing from the discussion. I'm sorry that some folks find that discomforting, but I'd rather that people be a little concerned now while we discuss the reality, rather than utterly shocked and disappointed when they actually encounter the reality we're discussing.

If I, for example, like the DDP, and because I like the DDP so much I vacation at Disney every year, instead of say...Universal. My family of 5, with passes deluxe hotel and spending cash blow $8,000 including the DDP.

I'm going to stop you there. You're focusing on yourself, only. That's not a constructive way of understanding the big picture. Sorry.

 

[bicker]

Has Disney actually confirmed these changes, or has all the rumors come from outside sources?

Disney has provided the general public absolutely no official confirmation of any changes to the Dining Plan for 2008.

 

[Leanne1977]

Has Disney actually confirmed these changes, or has all the rumors come from outside sources?

Disney has given this information to our UK tour operators so for us in the UK it is confirmed that the DDP for 2008 will not include appetizers or tip.

Now unless Disney decide to give different levels of the plan to different customers then i would say this is going to be across the board.

We were planning on visiting again next Sept hoping to get free dining again. But i don't feel that dining will be totally free now if appetizers are not included or tip and if, as rumoured, it will only be available on mods and above.
We liked the convenience of the plan and not having to worry about tips etc. We are now considering next years holiday in November instead.

 

[bicker]

While I agree that it will probably work out the way the UK tour operators have said it will, I think the one other possibility Leanne is that the UK tour operators were employing CYA when they put out what they put out -- they promised the least that could come to pass, knowing that if the plan included more, no one would complain.

 

[Leanne1977]

While I agree that it will probably work out the way the UK tour operators have said it will, I think the one other possibility Leanne is that the UK tour operators were employing CYA when they put out what they put out -- they promised the least that could come to pass, knowing that if the plan included more, no one would complain.

I understand what you are saying but feel that as this has come to the tour operators from resort then i don't see why Virgin would risk people cancelling the plan that they have already purchased from them, at a higher cost, just to cover themselves. Virgin are not usually so cautious.
If i had purchased the plan from Virgin and they then infomed me that no appetizer or tip would be included but the price will remain the same or increase then i would cancel immediately and get my money back.

Do you really think Virgin would risk losing a lot of money with cancellations just through fear of complaints later on.

Whichever way it plays out, i think this is a bad move from Disney and i believe they will lose a lot of customers through this.

 

[Pooh Bear Hugs]

Virgin want people to book with them so will have negotiated the best deal they can get with Disney. It's unlikely Disney will have said 'oh well we don't know yet just offer less'.

 

[bicker]

If i had purchased the plan from Virgin and they then infomed me that no appetizer or tip would be included but the price will remain the same or increase then i would cancel immediately and get my money back.

I believe you misunderstood what I wrote. I wrote the exact opposite of what it seems you inferred.

 

[Leanne1977]

I believe you misunderstood what I wrote. I wrote the exact opposite of what it seems you inferred.

You wrote that maybe Virgin are offering the least amount that may be offered on the DDP to avoid complaints later. What did i misunderstand! You must realise i was referring to the people that have already booked over a year in advance with the 2008 DDP. I wasn't referring to those who have yet to book.

If you were familiar with Virgin you would know that this isn't how they work. Also as Virgin's information came direct from Disney i feel they are just passing on that info to their customers.

 

[bicker]

You wrote that maybe Virgin are offering the least amount that may be offered on the DDP to avoid complaints later. What did i misunderstand!

No, I wrote that maybe Virgin is promising the least amount that they are sure that Disney will offer. No wonder you were confused.

 

[Leanne1977]

No, I wrote that maybe Virgin is promising the least amount that they are sure that Disney will offer. No wonder you were confused.

They are telling their customers what the 2008 DDP will be and this is what Disney has told them. Why you seem to be in denial is beyond me.

I also do not appreciate your sarcastic tone. It can sometimes be the case that somebody else other than yourself has the correct information early whilst you are still guessing what will happen.

Having a fair few friends that are in the know with this subject i feel confident that my information is correct for us UK Dissers.

Other Dissers, other than yourself are able to have an opinion and they do not always have to think you are right. I get so sick of the attitude all the time.

When this does all become clear for you, i will enjoy sitting back and saying "told you so."