I'm curious - percentage of students with IEP/504/etc

[1girln3boys]

Ok, you brought it up.... hehehehe. I was trying to refrain from commenting on this, but now that the question has been asked, I feel the need to put my 2 cents in.

I went to my youngest son's Kindergarten room meeting. A parent asked about an accommodation for his IEP. The teacher said that she didn't know yet, and that she would be meeting with the IEP director later that week to get her schedule all worked out. Well that got all the parents talking, and the parents of 8 of the 19 kids in class started asking about their IEPs.

I was shocked that almost 50% of the class had an IEP. Kindergartners - students who have never been in a public school before - and before the very first day 50% of the parents are sure that their kid needs special accommodations. How do they know little Johnny needs additional help in anything? Johnny hasn't been to school yet. How do they know that the concerns they have won't be addressed in a typical Kindergarten environment?

Please don't misunderstand me; I am all for helping kids in any way necessary so they can succeed. But with such a large percentage of the class already having an IEP, I kind of felt like the system was being abused. Time, staffing, and resources are limited. If this is the new trend, and 50% of the school has and IEP then the students who need it the most can't be getting the full support they need. And then what about us parents who have just plain ol' kids? How can a teacher have 8 different sets of rules and still have time to teach the "normal" kids to the best of her ability? It seems so unfair to her. I felt really bad for DS's teacher.

My son is in Kindergarten and has an IEP already. He has one bc he's been in the system since before he was 1. He started out in ECI(early childhood intervention) bc he was delayed in motor skills. Not crawling or walking. He was dxed with a stroke and continued therapy till 3. Then he started going to the public school for speech class. Last year we found out he didn't have a stroke but does have a brain tumor and NF1. So he will be evaluated and they will determine what accomidations he needs as the year goes on. Right now it's only speech.

 

[lillygator]

Yeah, I'm curious about a lot of things too, like exactly how much money does my neighbor make to be able to afford to pay $5000 PER KID for summer camp, but it doesn't make it my business.

Concern yourself with your own child and don't worry about mine, tyvm. I think her statement is dripping with "sick of people sticking their noses into my child's business because they think it's their right to know".

As for children with IEP's because it's easy for the parents. Have you ever had to get an IEP? Because it's a real pain in the behind to get. They don't make it "easy" for you to get. It's not a walk in the park or an easy out. Most of us put a LOT of time and effort into getting out children into the right courses. So thinking it's an easy out for the parents is wrong.

Like a child who has allergies that the parent doesn't want broadcast, like a child who is taking some advanced courses, I'll thank you to mind your own business about MY child and THEIR education. I've spent a lot of time, money and effort to get my child as far as she has come, MY OWN time, money and effort, and HER own effort.

Sorry if this is curt, but it really irritates me when people think they have a right to know this stuff. You don't.

wth?? geez....I am not the op...I was just commenting that I think people are curious (in this thread on the board).

and yes, if your child is disrupting the class, it is effecting mine and then I will be worrying about it.

 

[tw1nsmom]

You don't have to believe me. That's fine. Can you give me any logical reasons for my few examples above?

My wife teaches at a rather affluent school. Believe it or not, there are wealthy parents that still should not be parents. There are wealthy parents that are too involved with their careers to really be involved in their child's lives.

Paying for a few independent doctor visits is not out of the question for wealthy people and it does happen whether you believe me or not

Honestly? The examples you gave earlier sounded an awful lot like the school hadn't been providing the students with accommodations and knew it. That's the only reason they would be afraid of being sued.

The homework issue? If the IEP or 504 states that the student needs alternative assessments, extended time for assignments, use of a computer, copies of notes....and the school or teacher hadn't done that then they couldn't be marked off for missed or failing assignments.

The test/non-test taker...do you know for a fact that they didn't have a scribe as an accommodation, that the child in question wasn't supposed to take the test in an alternative location and have questions read to them because they're dyslexic?

Non participation...do you know for certain that the student in question wasn't on the high functioning end of the autistic spectrum and can understand the work but can't participate effectively in discussions?

When a school is afraid of being sued it's usually because they know they've done something wrong. I don't know why your wife was made to change those grades and I'm even more perplexed as to why you know anything about it. Children with IEP's and 504's are covered under HIPPA laws. Your wife shouldn't be telling you anything about the specifics of her students needs.

 

[sturdypeasantstock]

Ok, you brought it up.... hehehehe. I was trying to refrain from commenting on this, but now that the question has been asked, I feel the need to put my 2 cents in.

I went to my youngest son's Kindergarten room meeting. A parent asked about an accommodation for his IEP. The teacher said that she didn't know yet, and that she would be meeting with the IEP director later that week to get her schedule all worked out. Well that got all the parents talking, and the parents of 8 of the 19 kids in class started asking about their IEPs.

I was shocked that almost 50% of the class had an IEP. Kindergartners - students who have never been in a public school before - and before the very first day 50% of the parents are sure that their kid needs special accommodations. How do they know little Johnny needs additional help in anything? Johnny hasn't been to school yet. How do they know that the concerns they have won't be addressed in a typical Kindergarten environment?

Please don't misunderstand me; I am all for helping kids in any way necessary so they can succeed. But with such a large percentage of the class already having an IEP, I kind of felt like the system was being abused. Time, staffing, and resources are limited. If this is the new trend, and 50% of the school has and IEP then the students who need it the most can't be getting the full support they need. And then what about us parents who have just plain ol' kids? How can a teacher have 8 different sets of rules and still have time to teach the "normal" kids to the best of her ability? It seems so unfair to her. I felt really bad for DS's teacher.

It is the teacher's job! If he/she cannot handle it, or thinks it's "unfair", then he/she is in the wrong profession.

Children with IEPs are "plain ol' kids" too. They like the same activities that your precious little "normal" darlings do. My DSs have NT friends who like them for who they are and have common interests. If I hadn't fought tooth and nail not to have them warehoused in a dingy basement classroom in a separate building, they wouldn't have had the opportunity to make these friendships.

If you had a child with an IEP, you would feel differently. I'm so tired of complaints from parents of "normal", healthy kids. Some of them have no compassion whatsoever. They have no idea what families of children with special needs go through - the expense, the insensitive comments from those who don't "get it", etc.

The parents are not abusing the system. Legally, (and also morally, IMHO) their children have has much right to an education as your "normal" ones do.

Many children have been receiving services since they were toddlers for speech, or other issues. So their parents already know that they have educational issues. Many have "invisible" disabilities such as ADD without hyperactivity. (You know, where they look "normal" and just appear to be "daydreaming".)

You may be thinking that little Johnny is going to be disruptive because he has an IEP, which is a common misconception. My experience is that most of the disruption and bullying is caused by "normal" kids, not those with IEPs.

It is sad that there is so much resistance to children with IEPs from people with little understanding of what it is like to have a disability or be the parent of a child with a disability. So often the ignorance and intolerance is passed down from generation to generation. We speak about tolerance for people of different backgrounds, sexual orientation, etc. - and rightfully so - yet so many people still don't want "those kids" in their child's classroom.

This is why I am such a strong supporter of mainstreaming. It benefits not only the children with IEPs, but also the "normal" ones when they learn little Johnny likes XBox and baseball just like they do.

 

[Magpie]

I would not send my child(ren) to any public school in our area

You've got me a tad concerned for a friend of mine in Maryland whose 10 year old just moved in with him. They've got no money, so neither homeschooling nor private school will ever be an option.

I keep telling him he needs to move up North!

 

[mdsoccermom]

wth?? geez....I am not the op...I was just commenting that I think people are curious (in this thread on the board).

and yes, if your child is disrupting the class, it is effecting mine and then I will be worrying about it.

And again, IEP does not automatically equal disruption in the class. Chances are a child with an IEP does not affect your child at all.

 

[lillygator]

What people have to get over is the assumption that because someone has an IEP, they must have an aide just for them, or that the kid is disruptive. There are all kinds of IEPs for all different reasons.
.

I had never even heard the term iep or 504 before the DIS. My 3rd grader has one child in her classroom that has been to the principal's office twice this week, the very first week of school. I have no clue whether or not he has any iep or 504, nor do I care, but he is being a complete disruption and this is nothing new, he was in her K class as well and did the same thing. (on a side note, at the meet the teacher, he was running all over the classroom being disruptive then)

I'm sorry but it takes away from everyone else in the class who can and does behave. I know almost all children have their moments, but this is a daily occurance.

 

[Magpie]

wth?? geez....I am not the op...I was just commenting that I think people are curious (in this thread on the board).

and yes, if your child is disrupting the class, it is effecting mine and then I will be worrying about it.

Yep. We got pretty involved when a child in my daughter's Grade 1 class repeatedly BIT her.

They tried having a student teacher shadow him, but then he bit her (yes, they told us!). So he was eventually sent to a "special school". Didn't know where he went, but was glad our daughter no longer had to worry about staying out of reach of his teeth.

But a previous poster is also correct - IEP'd kids are not necessarily disruptive. My son has an IEP and he's a "model student" to quote his teachers (even when he's quietly failing, because they won't give him the accommodations he needs!).

 

[lillygator]

And again, IEP does not automatically equal disruption in the class. Chances are a child with an IEP does not affect your child at all.

I never said it did...

 

[DopeyDame]

In my wife's school it does not take much to be identified. An "evaluation" by the school and a doctor visit or 2 is all it takes.

I will give you a couple examples of what happened to my wife last year alone.

1. 2 students in the same class REFUSED to do any work in class or do any homework. My wife was forced to pass them because they had a 504. They never even attempted anything, nothing for the whole semester. My wife gave them a 0% for homework / class participation. The parents called and complained that the student should not have to do the work because of the 504. My wife was forced to disregard the homework and class participation for the grade

2. Same situation as above but this student also refused to take any tests. He would write his name down on the paper and hand it in. Never did any homework or class participation. Instead of failing him, my wife gave him an incomplete because she had nothing to grade him on. At the end of the semester, the school made my wife give him every test again but he was allowed to have someone there with him to take the tests.

3. Another teacher at the school was forced to change a student's grades from failing to passing AFTER the school year ended because the parents threatened to sue. She had to sign forms and back date them so it would go through the system. The administrators made her do it so they would not be sued.


These are just some that stand out. It is very hard to believe an IEP or 504 when the students don't even attempt the work. I mean c'mon. Aren't these plans supposed to be in place for a child to learn how to manage with their learning disability? Not doing any work and then using your IEP as an excuse sure seems like abuse to me

Wow! It sounds like your wife's school has a lot of issues that need to be addressed and an administration that needs a lot of straightening up. None of that should be happening, and indicates a real problem with their IEP/504 implimentation.

 

[lillygator]

My child. MY business. Not. Yours.

wow....what is the deal?

again...it is my business if the child is effecting the teacher/rest of the class...otherwise, no.

 

[kirstenb1]

So, are you saying that if the teacher is having a problem getting pregnant, or with her dh having an affair, or her parent being sick or anything that might make her cranky or upset should be my business as well? Because that has an affect on EVERYONE in the class as well.

If a teacher suspects child abuse, is the entire class and their parents privy to that information too? what if the teacher is suffering from an illness, is she/he supposed to inform everyone of that as well??

Teachers are trained to run their classes and work with students. Around here, most classes with children who have IEP's include two teachers. One is a special education teacher, or the teacher (if single) is a special education trained teacher. They aren't throwing these children to someone who is unaware of the situation and doesn't know how to teach and work with these children.

My child. MY business. Not. Yours.

You go!!! Where is the thundering applause icon?

 

[DopeyDame]

I would say that, to a certain extent, it is the business of the children's parents. If a child's education is affected by the teacher's behavior then, absolutely yes, the parents have a right to question it. They can simply be told that the teacher is having some personal issues without any detail given and that is fine. But the teacher needs to deal with it and get effective in the classroom or a substitute needs to be found until the issues are dealt with.

I don't think a parent should ever be told they can't ask any questions about the goings on in their child's classroom and that they just have to deal with whatever they get. If a child's education is being compromised, wouldn't a good parent ask questions and try to figure out what the problem is and help get it addressed for the benefit of their child and every other child in the class?

I actually agree with you 100% that if a teacher's behavior or the classroom environment is affecting your child's education, then yes - you as a parent have a right to question it. But that question should be "XYZ happened that has me concerned about my child's education. How can we handle it and improve the situation?" That does NOT translate into "How many kids with IEPs are in the class?"
If you find your child's teacher can't handle her class - if a child is biting other kids, looking up people's skirts, or throwing tantrums (all examples from PPs) then of course you should be concerned and involved! Little Johnny shouldn't bite your little Suzy, weather Johnny has an IEP or not. If the classroom isn't managed in such a way as to prevent Johnny from biting Suzy, then of course you should intervene to make sure things get changed so Suzy doesn't get bitten again.

None of that has ANY relation to the percentage of kids in your child's class with IEPs.

(In the interest of full discolure, I had DS's annual IFSP meeting this morning for his early intervention speech therapy. It included a discussion of the transition to IEP that will happen in a few months when he's about to turn 3. Nothing about EI/IFSP/IEP world is condusive to lazy parenting.)

 

[1girln3boys]

wow....what is the deal?

again...it is my business if the child is effecting the teacher/rest of the class...otherwise, no.

It's just as likely that a child without an IEP will disrupt the class as one that does have one. My older two are a perfect example. My daughter is a bright child. Does not have an IEP and makes good grade. But all during Elementry and Jr. High she was always in trouble. Agrueing with students and the teachers. Always in trouble. Her brother has always struggled and he has an IEP but a perfect student. NEVER gets in trouble. Never got a mark unless it was for something I forgot to sign.
So don't just assume that a child being disruptive means they have an IEP.

 

[SaraJayne]

So, are you saying that if the teacher is having a problem getting pregnant, or with her dh having an affair, or her parent being sick or anything that might make her cranky or upset should be my business as well? Because that has an affect on EVERYONE in the class as well.

If a teacher suspects child abuse, is the entire class and their parents privy to that information too? what if the teacher is suffering from an illness, is she/he supposed to inform everyone of that as well??

Teachers are trained to run their classes and work with students. Around here, most classes with children who have IEP's include two teachers. One is a special education teacher, or the teacher (if single) is a special education trained teacher. They aren't throwing these children to someone who is unaware of the situation and doesn't know how to teach and work with these children.

My child. MY business. Not. Yours.

If your child is impacting my child's education, then yes, it is MY business.

 

[DopeyDame]

If your child is impacting my child's education, then yes, it is MY business.

Again, I agree 100% that if another child is impacting your child's education it is your business.
HOWEVER - having or not having an IEP gives you no insight whatsoever as to whether or not a child will have any affect on the classroom in general or on your child in particular.

 

[SaraJayne]

Again, I agree 100% that if another child is impacting your child's education it is your business.
HOWEVER - having or not having an IEP gives you no insight whatsoever as to whether or not a child will have any affect on the classroom in general or on your child in particular.

I never said it did.

But when a child continually disrupts the class (whether they have an IEP or not) THEN it becomes my business.

Like a previous poster, I had never heard the term IEP or 504 before I joined the Dis. It seems to have become the new "thing" to have for your child.

As we've seen in this thread, in some schools, it takes little effort to get one.

 

[princessmom29]

And again, IEP does not automatically equal disruption in the class. Chances are a child with an IEP does not affect your child at all.

no, chances are they do in some way effect all children in the room, because the teacher has to take time to accomodate that child, whatever those accomodations may be. The other children won't know about it, but it still takes time from the teacher's day that could be spent on other things. In some cases quite a bit of time. No placing avalue judgment on that ,but there is no denying that a teacher spends some extra time every day accomdating each student with an IEP.

So, are you saying that if the teacher is having a problem getting pregnant, or with her dh having an affair, or her parent being sick or anything that might make her cranky or upset should be my business as well? Because that has an affect on EVERYONE in the class as well.

If a teacher suspects child abuse, is the entire class and their parents privy to that information too? what if the teacher is suffering from an illness, is she/he supposed to inform everyone of that as well??

Teachers are trained to run their classes and work with students. Around here, most classes with children who have IEP's include two teachers. One is a special education teacher, or the teacher (if single) is a special education trained teacher. They aren't throwing these children to someone who is unaware of the situation and doesn't know how to teach and work with these children.

My child. MY business. Not. Yours.

The bolded is definitely NOT true in this district. Most schools have 2-3 aides per school, and they work in self contained classrooms. I don't know of a general ed teacher who has an aide, period. The general ed teacher is solely responsible for ALL accomodations.

 

[SaraJayne]

The children are well aware of who has "special accomodations" made for them. Not necessarily on the first day of school, but easily by the end of the first week.

I know who had IEP's in my DD's class last year since she told me. Of course, she doesn't know what an IEP is, but she told me all the kids that had "different" things done for them, or who left the classroom for "special" time with other teachers.

Kids aren't stupid.

 

[mdsoccermom]

no, chances are they do in some way effect all children in the room, because the teacher has to take time to accomodate that child, whatever those accomodations may be. The other children won't know about it, but it still takes time from the teacher's day that could be spent on other things. In some cases quite a bit of time. No placing avalue judgment on that ,but there is no denying that a teacher spends some extra time every day accomdating each student with an IEP.
.

How? How do they spend extra time every day accommodating each student with an IEP? For example, like I said in a previous post, my daughter's teachers spend no time accommodating her, unless you consider handing her a calculator taking time away from another kid. She gets her help outside the class. If you were observing her in class, there would be no indication that she had an IEP.

While I know there are some kids that need the extra daily attention from a teacher, not all do. And unless you have been involved in the process, it's very unfair and ignorant to say each kid with an IEP is affecting your child.