I'm curious - percentage of students with IEP/504/etc

[DizBelle]

Yeah, I'm curious about a lot of things too, like exactly how much money does my neighbor make to be able to afford to pay $5000 PER KID for summer camp, but it doesn't make it my business.

Concern yourself with your own child and don't worry about mine, tyvm. I think her statement is dripping with "sick of people sticking their noses into my child's business because they think it's their right to know".

As for children with IEP's because it's easy for the parents. Have you ever had to get an IEP? Because it's a real pain in the behind to get. They don't make it "easy" for you to get. It's not a walk in the park or an easy out. Most of us put a LOT of time and effort into getting out children into the right courses. So thinking it's an easy out for the parents is wrong.

Like a child who has allergies that the parent doesn't want broadcast, like a child who is taking some advanced courses, I'll thank you to mind your own business about MY child and THEIR education. I've spent a lot of time, money and effort to get my child as far as she has come, MY OWN time, money and effort, and HER own effort.

Sorry if this is curt, but it really irritates me when people think they have a right to know this stuff. You don't.

But don't you see that anything that affects the teacher and impacts their ability to do their job (having to keep track of and make sure accomodations are met) affects EVERYONE in the class? I would think that anything that affects the whole class is the business of the parents of all of the students in that class.

 

[summerrluvv]

20% or more of my wife's students have some sort of IEP or 504. She does not teach special ed

I honestly believe that SOME are not needed and are used as an excuse for parents/kids

Really? Wow, I can't imagine any parent wanting their child to be classified for no reason. Odd

 

[Liberty Belle]

But don't you see that anything that affects the teacher and impacts their ability to do their ob (having to keep track of and make sure accomodations are met) affects EVERYONE in the class? I would think that anything that affects the whole class is the business of the parents of all of the students in that class.

I'm sure having a student in a wheelchair my affect the whole class, too, but I wouldn't question her need to have one. I wouldn't suggest maybe she was too lazy to walk or if her parents made her try harder, she'd be able to walk.

You have to understand what people who have children with special needs (especially "invisible" ones) go through, then you might see where we're/they're going through.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Really? Wow, I can't imagine any parent wanting their child to be classified for no reason. Odd

Yeah, it's an especially joyful and proud moment as a parent.

 

[rgf207]

Really? Wow, I can't imagine any parent wanting their child to be classified for no reason. Odd

I know it sounds strange but believe me, it does happen. There are parents out there that don't care enough and would rather rely on an excuse rather than to be a parent.

Having a learning disability and simply being lazy and not caring are very different things. A lot of times the school system will look the other way for fear of being sued. There are a lot of rules that need to be followed once a 504 or IEP is in place but there aren't many ways of proving that a child is simply lazy, doesn't care and/or the parents are lazy, don't care.

I want to stress that abuse of the system is NOT the norm and I am not suggesting that most people do this. I'm just saying that it is more common nowadays than it was before.

 

[summerrluvv]

I'm sure having a student in a wheelchair my affect the whole class, too, but I wouldn't question her need to have one. I wouldn't suggest maybe she was too lazy to walk or if her parents made her try harder, she'd be able to walk.

You have to understand what people who have children with special needs (especially "invisible" ones) go through, then you might see where we're/they're going through.

Exactly!

 

[summerrluvv]

I know it sounds strange but believe me, it does happen. There are parents out there that don't care enough and would rather rely on an excuse rather than to be a parent.

I'm curious as to what kind of excuses parents are giving to have their child be classified?

 

[Magpie]

I know it sounds strange but believe me, it does happen. There are parents out there that don't care enough and would rather rely on an excuse rather than to be a parent.

I find it hard to believe that a parent who doesn't "care enough to parent" would be willing to spend months or even years jumping through hoops to get their kid identified, and then put in even MORE time to ensure that the teacher doesn't just ignore the child's IEP.

 

[rgf207]

Yeah, it's an especially joyful and proud moment as a parent.

I totally agree. I would never wish that on my child but we all know that there are parents in this world that don't care and should never have become parents.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I find it hard to believe that a parent who doesn't "care enough to parent" would be willing to spend months or even years jumping through hoops to get their kid identified, and then put in even MORE time to ensure that the teacher doesn't just ignore the child's IEP.

Exactly.

 

[AndyLL]

My son (DS8) has been pulled out of classes for some speech therapy in 1st & 2nd grade.

He does not have an IEP.

They did want to reclassify him in 2nd so he could get more extra therapy but I refused.

He gets all 3s/4s ( As,Bs ) so his mild speech issue does not effect his school work and I didn't want him pulled from class any more then necessary.

I told them that if they really felt there was a problem that we would have him independently tested and treated outside of school.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

But don't you see that anything that affects the teacher and impacts their ability to do their ob (having to keep track of and make sure accomodations are met) affects EVERYONE in the class? I would think that anything that affects the whole class is the business of the parents of all of the students in that class.

So, are you saying that if the teacher is having a problem getting pregnant, or with her dh having an affair, or her parent being sick or anything that might make her cranky or upset should be my business as well? Because that has an affect on EVERYONE in the class as well.

If a teacher suspects child abuse, is the entire class and their parents privy to that information too? what if the teacher is suffering from an illness, is she/he supposed to inform everyone of that as well??

Teachers are trained to run their classes and work with students. Around here, most classes with children who have IEP's include two teachers. One is a special education teacher, or the teacher (if single) is a special education trained teacher. They aren't throwing these children to someone who is unaware of the situation and doesn't know how to teach and work with these children.

My child. MY business. Not. Yours.

 

[rgf207]

I'm curious as to what kind of excuses parents are giving to have their child be classified?

I find it hard to believe that a parent who doesn't "care enough to parent" would be willing to spend months or even years jumping through hoops to get their kid identified, and then put in even MORE time to ensure that the teacher doesn't just ignore the child's IEP.

In my wife's school it does not take much to be identified. An "evaluation" by the school and a doctor visit or 2 is all it takes.

I will give you a couple examples of what happened to my wife last year alone.

1. 2 students in the same class REFUSED to do any work in class or do any homework. My wife was forced to pass them because they had a 504. They never even attempted anything, nothing for the whole semester. My wife gave them a 0% for homework / class participation. The parents called and complained that the student should not have to do the work because of the 504. My wife was forced to disregard the homework and class participation for the grade

2. Same situation as above but this student also refused to take any tests. He would write his name down on the paper and hand it in. Never did any homework or class participation. Instead of failing him, my wife gave him an incomplete because she had nothing to grade him on. At the end of the semester, the school made my wife give him every test again but he was allowed to have someone there with him to take the tests.

3. Another teacher at the school was forced to change a student's grades from failing to passing AFTER the school year ended because the parents threatened to sue. She had to sign forms and back date them so it would go through the system. The administrators made her do it so they would not be sued.


These are just some that stand out. It is very hard to believe an IEP or 504 when the students don't even attempt the work. I mean c'mon. Aren't these plans supposed to be in place for a child to learn how to manage with their learning disability? Not doing any work and then using your IEP as an excuse sure seems like abuse to me

 

[TheIncredibles!]

I know it sounds strange but believe me, it does happen. There are parents out there that don't care enough and would rather rely on an excuse rather than to be a parent.

Having a learning disability and simply being lazy and not caring are very different things. A lot of times the school system will look the other way for fear of being sued. There are a lot of rules that need to be followed once a 504 or IEP is in place but there aren't many ways of proving that a child is simply lazy, doesn't care and/or the parents are lazy, don't care.

I want to stress that abuse of the system is NOT the norm and I am not suggesting that most people do this. I'm just saying that it is more common nowadays than it was before.

You know it happens? There are schools out there that will implement an IEP for a lazy child?

In order to get extra services from a school you have to PROVE that your child has a need. Most times the school will do an evaluation themselves. If the eval determines that your child does not have a need and you disagree then you have to go outside of the school, pay for your own evaluations done by qualifed medical personnel or therapists and then fight the school to get them to accept your evaluations.

I have one child classified as Multiple Disabilities. I have another child classified as: Specific Learning Disability. My first one was easy to get an IEP as we did all the work and laid out all the money for Early Intervention.

For my second child we wrote the letter to the school November 11th, 2009 we had her first IEP meeting May 26th 2010 and her IEP was implemented effective the next day.(I have her IEP in front of me with all the dates...) Mind you, we wrote the letter for Parental Consent at the request of the SCHOOL and it still took 6 months to get everything done.

 

[rgf207]

You know it happens? There are schools out there that will implement an IEP for a lazy child?

In order to get extra services from a school you have to PROVE that your child has a need. Most times the school will do an evaluation themselves. If the eval determines that your child does not have a need and you disagree then you have to go outside of the school, pay for your own evaluations done by qualifed medical personnel or therapists and then fight the school to get them to accept your evaluations.

I have one child classified as Multiple Disabilities. I have another child classified as: Specific Learning Disability. My first one was easy to get an IEP as we did all the work and laid out all the money for Early Intervention.

For my second child we wrote the letter to the school November 11th, 2009 we had her first IEP meeting May 26th 2010 and her IEP was implemented effective the next day.(I have her IEP in front of me with all the dates...) Mind you, we wrote the letter for Parental Consent at the request of the SCHOOL and it still took 6 months to get everything done.

You don't have to believe me. That's fine. Can you give me any logical reasons for my few examples above?

My wife teaches at a rather affluent school. Believe it or not, there are wealthy parents that still should not be parents. There are wealthy parents that are too involved with their careers to really be involved in their child's lives.

Paying for a few independent doctor visits is not out of the question for wealthy people and it does happen whether you believe me or not

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

What is the difference between an IEP and a 504 Plan?

Printable Version
IEP Defined

The Individualized Educational Plan (IEP) is a plan or program developed to ensure that a child who has a disability identified under the law and is attending an elementary or secondary educational institution receives specialized instruction and related services.

504 Plan Defined

The 504 Plan is a plan developed to ensure that a child who has a disability identified under the law and is attending an elementary or secondary educational institution receives accommodations that will ensure their academic success and access to the learning environment.
Subtle but Important Differences

Not all students who have disabilities require specialized instruction. For students with disabilities who do require specialized instruction, the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) controls the procedural requirements, and an IEP is developed. The IDEA process is more involved than that of Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act and requires documentation of measurable growth. For students with disabilities who do not require specialized instruction but need the assurance that they will receive equal access to public education and services, a document is created to outline their specific accessibility requirements. Students with 504 Plans do not require specialized instruction, but, like the IEP, a 504 Plan should be updated annually to ensure that the student is receiving the most effective accommodations for his/her specific circumstances.

 

[DizBelle]

So, are you saying that if the teacher is having a problem getting pregnant, or with her dh having an affair, or her parent being sick or anything that might make her cranky or upset should be my business as well? Because that has an affect on EVERYONE in the class as well.

If a teacher suspects child abuse, is the entire class and their parents privy to that information too? what if the teacher is suffering from an illness, is she/he supposed to inform everyone of that as well??

Teachers are trained to run their classes and work with students. Around here, most classes with children who have IEP's include two teachers. One is a special education teacher, or the teacher (if single) is a special education trained teacher. They aren't throwing these children to someone who is unaware of the situation and doesn't know how to teach and work with these children.

My child. MY business. Not. Yours.

I would say that, to a certain extent, it is the business of the children's parents. If a child's education is affected by the teacher's behavior then, absolutely yes, the parents have a right to question it. They can simply be told that the teacher is having some personal issues without any detail given and that is fine. But the teacher needs to deal with it and get effective in the classroom or a substitute needs to be found until the issues are dealt with.

I don't think a parent should ever be told they can't ask any questions about the goings on in their child's classroom and that they just have to deal with whatever they get. If a child's education is being compromised, wouldn't a good parent ask questions and try to figure out what the problem is and help get it addressed for the benefit of their child and every other child in the class?

 

[Magpie]

In my wife's school it does not take much to be identified. An "evaluation" by the school and a doctor visit or 2 is all it takes.

I will give you a couple examples of what happened to my wife last year alone.

1. 2 students in the same class REFUSED to do any work in class or do any homework. My wife was forced to pass them because they had a 504. They never even attempted anything, nothing for the whole semester. My wife gave them a 0% for homework / class participation. The parents called and complained that the student should not have to do the work because of the 504. My wife was forced to disregard the homework and class participation for the grade

2. Same situation as above but this student also refused to take any tests. He would write his name down on the paper and hand it in. Never did any homework or class participation. Instead of failing him, my wife gave him an incomplete because she had nothing to grade him on. At the end of the semester, the school made my wife give him every test again but he was allowed to have someone there with him to take the tests.

3. Another teacher at the school was forced to change a student's grades from failing to passing AFTER the school year ended because the parents threatened to sue. She had to sign forms and back date them so it would go through the system. The administrators made her do it so they would not be sued.


These are just some that stand out. It is very hard to believe an IEP or 504 when the students don't even attempt the work. I mean c'mon. Aren't these plans supposed to be in place for a child to learn how to manage with their learning disability? Not doing any work and then using your IEP as an excuse sure seems like abuse to me

Wow - it sure doesn't work like that here. If I lived in your school district, I think I'd still be homeschooling!

 

[rgf207]

Wow - it sure doesn't work like that here. If I lived in your school district, I think I'd still be homeschooling!

I would not send my child(ren) to any public school in our area

 

[mdsoccermom]

was wondering this too....but read what was posted since, how does this involve the teacher of the class?


wow, that is very surprising!



hmm, dripping with??

I think people are just curious, I have no clue what the 504 iep is...... and I'm not concerned with anyone getting special treatment...more so the children that are a disruption and take away from the oterh students in the class. But also how the teacher is involved...does everyone have an aid, etc or does the teacher have to handle it all alone...?

What people have to get over is the assumption that because someone has an IEP, they must have an aide just for them, or that the kid is disruptive. There are all kinds of IEPs for all different reasons.

My daughter is going into 7th grade and since early elementary school, has had an IEP for math and reading comprehension. When in elementary school, she would leave class each week for a time to work with a special ed teacher on math and reading. If there was a test, she'd take it with the aide because she was allowed extra time. She received extra tutoring after school in math. Her teacher in the class never had to interrupt her time with the others for my daughter.

In middle school, the kids with IEPs are completely responsible for knowing their accommodations. She has pretty much none for reading anymore. In math, she's permitted to use a calculator if necessary. Instead of the Life Skills class everyone takes, she takes an extra math workshop as part of her IEP. Again, her regular math teacher takes no extra time away from the class to assist my daughter. Watching my DD you would never know she had an IEP. And I have no idea who else in her class does, nor do I care.

To get her accommodations was a lengthy process full of meetings and testing. The school just didn't toss extra math help her way because she was struggling. My neighbor once told me she can't stand when kids like my daughter get all this extra help while kids like hers are left behind. I wanted to kill her for that remark. Because I would have given anything not to have put DD through all that. I would love for learning to come easily to her. I know she would like to be sitting in her Life Skills class with her friends rather than extra math. But I know it's done wonders for her so anyone who objects can go screw themselves.