I think Disney should start enforcing end times on fastpasses

[neoavatara]

I totally agree that you would not know the definitive effect until you tested both theories.

However, I stand by the statement that Disney knows how many people use a late FP, and they think that the number is so small to not effect anything at all. Could they be wrong? Maybe. But I think the likelihood is very, very tiny.

In any case, these are the rules as of today, whether people like it or not. You accept the rules, or don't. If you don't...well, all I can say is you can skip Disney, because it is their park, they get to decide how to run it.

 

[mossy1]

I've been following this tread and I can see both points on the FP late returners. I really question the fact that if FP is still available, why is anyone getting in the Standby Que???

 

[sam_gordon]

I really question the fact that if FP is still available, why is anyone getting in the Standby Que???

1) They already hold a FP for another ride and are waiting for their time to pick up another one.
2) They don't plan on being in the park at the posted FP return time
3) They don't understand how FP works.

 

[Robo]

So here is the unemotional fact... There is no feasible way to have a controlled test to show if enforcing or not enforcing fast pass times affects lines. There are just too many variables to really know one way or the other. And anyone who says otherwise is just engaging in speculation, conjecture and a hypothesis that's unproven.

Disney has been operating the FP system for well over a decade.

They have already tested various methods of operation.
Millions upon millions of FP's have been distributed and collected.

The current system is the outcome of what they learned after actual
crowd-condition use.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

LOL. Ok. I swore I wouldn't post in here again, but this is just, well it's funny. The whole thread has been pretty amusing. Everyone getting their panties in a twist over fast pass times.

Yes, I think if they print them on the ticket they should enforce them. Otherwise why waste the ink? But as far as getting emotional... it seems like a silly thing to get emotional about. From what I've seen the people who feel they should not be enforced have been quick to jump on the dissenting opinions and bash people. Many have been openly hostile and rude rather than engage in an interesting and open dialogue. I know I simply posted an opinion and my thoughts and people were quick to pounce and point to subjective explanations. And I think it stinks that the original poster was treated so badly that they felt they had to leave the discussion. They had an opinion that they shared but some people felt they had to belittle them for it just because they didn't agree.

So here is the unemotional fact... There is no feasible way to have a controlled test to show if enforcing or not enforcing fast pass times affects lines. There are just too many variables to really know one way or the other. And anyone who says otherwise is just engaging in speculation, conjecture and a hypothesis that's unproven.

Now I'm sure that many will come back and point out how an informal survey can tell us the real effects, or how Disney just magically knows. But like so many things in life, it's all subjective.

And it's okay for you to be sarcastic and condescending on this thread, but if someone disagrees with you it's just a silly topic anyway and they are hostile, rude and getting their panties in a twist? Sounds pretty hypocritical to me.

I have not engaged in any speculation or conjecture regarding the use of FP's and the impact on waiting, etc. Yet, I do find this whole thread to be a moot issue due to one "unemotional fact". Disney's current policy generally permits the use of FP's anytime after their start time on the day of issue.

If you disagree with that policy, then write Disney and complain. Until Disney changes their policy, I will continue to adhere to their existing policy to maximize my vacation enjoyment by reducing the amount of time I spend waiting in line. I will continue to arrive early and gather FP's while riding major attractions with minimal wait. I will continue to leave the park in the heat of the afternoon to do something different with my family (i.e swim, eat, visit DTD, etc.). I will return in the evening and use my VALID FP's for that day to ride attractions with a reduced wait even though it may be two to eight hours after the start time of the FP.

In any case, these are the rules as of today, whether people like it or not. You accept the rules, or don't. If you don't...well, all I can say is you can skip Disney, because it is their park, they get to decide how to run it.

 

[Wadecool]

LOL. Ok. I swore I wouldn't post in here again, but this is just, well it's funny. The whole thread has been pretty amusing. Everyone getting their panties in a twist over fast pass times.

Yes, I think if they print them on the ticket they should enforce them. Otherwise why waste the ink? But as far as getting emotional... it seems like a silly thing to get emotional about. From what I've seen the people who feel they should not be enforced have been quick to jump on the dissenting opinions and bash people. Many have been openly hostile and rude rather than engage in an interesting and open dialogue. I know I simply posted an opinion and my thoughts and people were quick to pounce and point to subjective explanations. And I think it stinks that the original poster was treated so badly that they felt they had to leave the discussion. They had an opinion that they shared but some people felt they had to belittle them for it just because they didn't agree.


So here is the unemotional fact... There is no feasible way to have a controlled test to show if enforcing or not enforcing fast pass times affects lines. There are just too many variables to really know one way or the other. And anyone who says otherwise is just engaging in speculation, conjecture and a hypothesis that's unproven.

Now I'm sure that many will come back and point out how an informal survey
can tell us the real effects, or how Disney just magically knows. But like so
many things in life, it's all subjective.

Was the OP really treated so badly or did they just get their own "panties in a twist" over the responses they were getting. There's a great thread right now specifically dealing with subject the OP's who try to shut down threads they don't like anymore. To borrow the soon to be famous phrase from the aforementioned thread, I would advise the OP of this thread to "Man up Nancy."

 

[Wadecool]

And it's okay for you to be sarcastic and condescending on this thread, but if someone disagrees with you it's just a silly topic anyway and they are hostile, rude and getting their panties in a twist? Sounds pretty hypocritical to me.

I have not engaged in any speculation or conjecture regarding the use of FP's and the impact on waiting, etc. Yet, I do find this whole thread to be a moot issue due to one "unemotional fact". Disney's current policy generally permits the use of FP's anytime after their start time on the day of issue.

If you disagree with that policy, then write Disney and complain. Until Disney changes their policy, I will continue to adhere to their existing policy to maximize my vacation enjoyment by reducing the amount of time I spend waiting in line. I will continue to arrive early and gather FP's while riding major attractions with minimal wait. I will continue to leave the park in the
heat of the afternoon to do something different with my family (i.e swim, eat,
visit DTD, etc.). I will return in the evening and use my VALID FP's for that
day to ride attractions with a reduced wait even though it may be two to eight hours after the start time of the FP.

You took the words right out of my mouth!

 

[Dayton Flyer]

I'm amused by the thought of 10 minutes worth of riders all showing up with late FP times all at once. Like a flash mob or something.

 

[klacey1]

I'm amused by the thought of 10 minutes worth of riders all showing up with late FP times all at once. Like a flash mob or something.

This does actually happen-- usually after the fireworks or a parade ends.

 

[davidjaybrown]

I just got back from my first visit, and I had heard alot about how to
maximize fast passes. It worked GREAT for my family and I. We got in
26 rides our first day (yup, I wrote our activities down on last page
of my daughters autograph book). True, we used EMH in the morning, and
that really boosted our ridecount (blessedly).

What confuses me slightly, are two things...
1) why doesnt EVERYONE use fastpasses all the time? Are there some
categories of tickets for which the machine WONT work?

2) I wish it was made plain earlier, that you're eligible for additional
fastpasses earlier that the ones you're currently holding. I didnt get
this at first. I thought you had to burn your present fastpasses before
you could possibly get others. (++)

-djb

(++) funny story (as a newbie)...
On day1, we got fastpasses for WinnieThePooh, and BONUS fastpasses also
came out of that machine for Mickeys 3D symphony ride. So we did other
rides, then WinnieThePooh, and THEN I thought I had to burn the Mickey
Symphony fastpasses (so I could get others later). When we went to the
symphony, there was no line, and so the attendant refused to accept
our fastpasses for it (thinking we should just save them, perhaps). Not
knowing any better, I *INSISTED* she accept them, because I wanted to
bolt over and get more PeterPan FPs afterwards. She was a little confused
by my *enthusiasm* that she MUST take them! (LOL).

 

[Robo]

What confuses me slightly, are two things...
1a) why doesnt EVERYONE use fastpasses all the time?

1b) Are there some categories of tickets for which the machine WONT work?

2) I wish it was made plain earlier, that you're eligible for additional
fastpasses earlier that the ones you're currently holding. I didnt get
this at first. I thought you had to burn your present fastpasses before
you could possibly get others. (++)

1a) Some people don't pay any attention to things around them.

1b) Nope.

2) The time you can get another FP is printed right on the FastPass you have and
that "Next FP" time is displayed at the FP machine area when you get a FP.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

1a) Some people don't pay any attention to things around them.

Isn't that the truth!!!

That was our one real complaint about our most recent trip.

Those who are oblivious can benefit you (i.e. they blindly get in the standby line unaware of FP), but they can also be rude and frustrating (i.e. they walk right up to a character or photopass photographer even though there are already others waiting OR they stand in front of the FP queue blocking the entrance as they wait for their FP time to start).

I know it's something that I can't change, so we just try to laugh and accept it. I only made one comment loud enough for an oblivious person to hear only because the Mom was being very rude even after the photopass photographer apologized to us.

 

[BigMommaMouse]

I only made one comment loud enough for an oblivious person to hear only because the Mom was being very rude even after the photopass photographer apologized to us.

I have no problem letting people know "Excuse me, there is a line." "Pardon me, my family was here first." Something about looking them in the eyes, lets them know you mean business. We do REALLY TRY to avoid the whole experience of it.

As for FP I think Disney counts on people returning after allotted time or else the would not allow it.

 

[kparc]

I just found a Fast Past for "Rockin' RollerCoaster" from 2009! Hope they honor it next month!

 

[brerrabbit]

A couple of points I have to make. First when it comes to FP and their usage there are no absolutes about the program and anyone arguing for or against have to realize that. Second you can be assured Disney monitors the system and certainly feels it is achieving their goals as well as making the majority of guests happy as well. Robo pointed out they have been doing it for ten years and have not made major changes so in Disney's mind the system is working.

Now as far as the effect on wait times goes some people argue it costs them time in the standbye que while others argue that it causes no delays at all. This is where I have to go back to point one and say there are no absolutes. I contended in an earlier posting and can prove mathmatically what I said in that thread that in practice what it is most likely to do is decrease wait times early and possibly increase wait times later. The wait times I refer to are the standby lines. Even not running a mathematical model it should be evident that if people get FP's early and save them for later in the day then they are riding standby all morning and FP riders are not slowing you down.

But here comes the Disney factor. WDW is after all a business, which means they want to maximize profits but still have to offer a product that consumers are willing to buy. They maximize profits by getting you out of line to buy shirts, hats, plush Mickeys, food and snacks. The keep the consumer happy by offering product they are willing to buy in the form of rides and attractions. The intent of the FP system is to balance the two. Give you enough entertainment that you feel you got your money's worth but do it by not keeping you in a line all day so you can spend money beyond just the price of park admission.

Now I freely admit I have no idea of how many FP's are used in their window vs how many are late returns, vs how many are really late returns. But I am willing to bet that the numbers are well within the statistical bounds Disney has created so that they feel that they are getting the correct balance of shoppers vs satisfied customers.

I don't know about you but being a regular visitor DW and I answer at least two to three in park surveys during our week long trip and seem to always wind up with a take home survey via the internet on each trip. Disney spends a lot of money, time, and effort to assure that the mix is right.

So like the FP system or not, want return times enforced or not I don't see any changes coming anytime soon. The bottom line is why fix something that ain't broke.

 

[Robo]

The bottom line is why fix something that ain't broke.

Heck, sometimes they don't fix something that IS!

 

[skater]

Heck, sometimes they don't fix something that IS!

Good one!

 

[dbriggsq]

Coming late to the party on this one (although some folks don't seem to be having a good time)

Just a couple of observations - the fact that there is a one hour window on the fastpass ticket would seem to imply that the original idea was that people would return within that window - otherwise why not just have a 'return after this time' on it. Presumably the idea was that giving out a certain number of fastpasses for that hour would not impinge too badly on the standby line at that time. It probably soon became obvious that turning people away who returned after the window would become problematical.

We have just returned after a 2 week trip and did notice that the posted wait times for the standby line were quite often out of whack with previous trips - eg we got into line for TSM with a posted wait of 50 mins and actually only waited 20 - great for us - but how many people would have been put off by the posted wait time. Thinking about it now this probably happened because it was early in the day, posted wait times were allowing for fast pass people to return and they didn't - keeping their tickets for later in the day. Contrast this to another experience at Peter Pan late in the evening (when we usually try to ride fantasy land rides ) where the posted wait time was 20 minutes and we actually waited 50 because there were streams of people joining the fastpass lines (presumably more than had fastpasses for that hour) and the CMs really have to keep that line moving or people in that line would probably complain. People have said that those people could have riden before us anyway but the point is we wouldn't have got in line for that particular ride late at night with a posted wait time of 50 minutes which the late fast pass riders caused - if those people had ridden earlier in the day would they have caused such a delay later on - I don't think so.

I think the critical phrases on the Disney website are these

•If the return time is one that works for you, just insert your admission ticket into the Disney's FASTPASS Service machine - this implies that if this time isn't suitable don't get one.

•Go back to the FASTPASS ticketholder entrance when your return time rolls around - presumably not hours later.

I would imagine at really busy times if everyone chose to use their fastpasses later in the day it could have a real impact on standby lines. Perhaps if they allowed a 'grace period' of perhaps an hour to use them that would be a solution. I'm not one for 'following the rules or else' but I do think in this case it could be to everyone's advantage to stick more or less to the plan that Disney envisaged when they thought out this plan.

 

[nytimez]

Coming late to the party on this one (although some folks don't seem to be having a good time)

Just a couple of observations - the fact that there is a one hour window on the fastpass ticket would seem to imply that the original idea was that people would return within that window - otherwise why not just have a 'return after this time' on it. Presumably the idea was that giving out a certain number of fastpasses for that hour would not impinge too badly on the standby line at that time. It probably soon became obvious that turning people away who returned after the window would become problematical.

We have just returned after a 2 week trip and did notice that the posted wait times for the standby line were quite often out of whack with previous trips - eg we got into line for TSM with a posted wait of 50 mins and actually only waited 20 - great for us - but how many people would have been put off by the posted wait time. Thinking about it now this probably happened because it was early in the day, posted wait times were allowing for fast pass people to return and they didn't - keeping their tickets for later in the day. Contrast this to another experience at Peter Pan late in the evening (when we usually try to ride fantasy land rides ) where the posted wait time was 20 minutes and we actually waited 50 because there were streams of people joining the fastpass lines (presumably more than had fastpasses for that hour) and the CMs really have to keep that line moving or people in that line would probably complain. People have said that those people could have riden before us anyway but the point is we wouldn't have got in line for that particular ride late at night with a posted wait time of 50 minutes which the late fast pass riders caused - if those people had ridden earlier in the day would they have caused such a delay later on - I don't think so.

I think the critical phrases on the Disney website are these

•If the return time is one that works for you, just insert your admission ticket into the Disney's FASTPASS Service machine - this implies that if this time isn't suitable don't get one.

•Go back to the FASTPASS ticketholder entrance when your return time rolls around - presumably not hours later.

I would imagine at really busy times if everyone chose to use their fastpasses later in the day it could have a real impact on standby lines. Perhaps if they allowed a 'grace period' of perhaps an hour to use them that would be a solution. I'm not one for 'following the rules or else' but I do think in this case it could be to everyone's advantage to stick more or less to the plan that Disney envisaged when they thought out this plan.

Lots of implying and presuming in there. How about this: Disney can easily stop people from returning late. They don't. What implication would you draw from that? They're fine with it, I presume.

 

[juliebug1997]

[/IMG]

Hoping this works. In more ways than one.