I am beginning to lose hope...

[mom2rtk]

In other words...Rope Drop is the antidote to the limitations of FP+. Yet somehow whenever someone says this, a battle ensues.

Yet when we told people who didn't like legacy FP that RD was the antidote to running out of TSMM FPs, that answer was always inadequate. That's actually one of the more amusing parts of this whole deal.

 

[cakebaker]

In other words...Rope Drop is the antidote to the limitations of FP+. Yet somehow whenever someone says this, a battle ensues.

I was making a suggestion trying to be helpful, not start the same old, tired, boring argument.

But no, not rope drop. We've never, not one time EVER done the typical rope drop. I hate it, I'd rather not ride than fight a crowd. We get there sometime before the park opens because we like the opening show at the MK. Then, we let the masses run and we leisurely walk to the other side of the park. Same thing for the other parks.

 

[goofyernmost]

I'm surprised I'd get a response arguing that Soarin' doesn't need an update. Thankfully, WDW thinks so and has plans to do so.

I don't think anyone said it doesn't need an update. What they said was that in spite of that, there is still a long line waiting to see it. Poor quality is not keeping anyone away.

Fastpass plus makes money? Really? Wow!! Come on. It is a huge money suck. Had Disney spent a fraction of what they spent advertising plus on legacy everyone would know about it too! Disney is invested heavily in this mess now, unfortunately so much so that there is no turning back.

If you continue to feel that all that MM+ was is FP+ then you might be right. However, FP+ is but a small part of the whole system that included a whole lot of software as well as programing. Remember the biggest part of an iceberg is the part that cannot be seen. I'll be briefly explaining why it possible is making money in my next response down below.

I'm not going to try to say that FP+ makes money, because I have no way to know for sure.

However, aren't they advertising MM+ as a whole, with FP+ as a component? Most of the marketing I've seen has been more focused on the Magicbands. Once you book your trip they feature FP+ in the booklets they send out, but haven't they always sent out print media after booking? I have always been impressed with their marketing, I can't begin to imagine the kind of budget it takes, but does anyone know for sure how much more FP+ is costing in that department?

I guess since they have added it to ads where they hardly ever talked about FP- it has had an impact, but in the larger context of MM+ I wonder if the impact is significant.

Right this minute I am sitting at my computer at home. Next Monday I am heading down to Orlando. It is going to be a short trip. I am only spending 3 days in the parks. The other day I sat down and lined up my three FP+ allowances for those three day. It wasn't hard to figure out for me because I have been so many times and knew what I wanted to see. Granted it's the slow season, if there is one anymore, but with only 9 days to spare I was able to get FP's for everything that I felt might be helpful for me to save a little time. I didn't have to go to any kiosk to do that even though I am not staying onsite, I was able to easily line those up, then came the kicker. I had never done an ADR on any of my trips to Disney. Since what FP's I could get were an unknown entity until I actually was in the parks, I just figured it was easier to do a quick service meal instead of a sit-down meal. Or I would take a break and quickly drive offsite and grab a bite and a short rest away from there.

What I found was that since I now know exactly what my windows are I could see that I could reserve a spot after or before my FP windows with no second guessing about when I might be able to get there. So for the first time in 31 years I actually committed to doing an ADR (two of them in fact). After I did that without even trying, I realized... Wow, I am probably right off the bat going to spend at least $60.00 that I wouldn't have normally spent. The kicker is that I am just one person. That probably has worked for significant number of people.

We all tend to make our determinations based on just ourselves and don't take into consideration the thousands of people that are there everyday. It can add up pretty quickly if people that didn't spend before start too. I spent the early days of the discussion about MM+ basically wondering how having a magic band was going to get me to spend more money on souvenirs then I normally would have. I didn't even think about how that might translate to increased, previously unspent, money on food. But there is was. Imagine my surprise.

 

[JimmyV]

We get there sometime before the park opens because we like the opening show at the MK.

I wasn't criticizing your advice. I was applauding it. And I think that in general, people equate getting to the park before it opens with rope drop. The "running of the bulls" is optional.

 

[mom2rtk]

What I found was that since I now know exactly what my windows are I could see that I could reserve a spot after or before my FP windows with no second guessing about when I might be able to get there. So for the first time in 31 years I actually committed to doing an ADR (two of them in fact). After I did that without even trying, I realized... Wow, I am probably right off the bat going to spend at least $60.00 that I wouldn't have normally spent. The kicker is that I am just one person. That probably has worked for significant number of people.

And when we go back to WDW, we will be doing fewer ADRs just to have a little bit of unscheduled time left in our days.

 

[goofyernmost]

Wrong. Suffice it to say we have been loyal, locked-in, extremely profitable guests for decades. And if I have to be labeled as a "commando" then I'm minor league compared to many. The fact is that once you use the three FP's you are allocated each day, WDW theme parks are on the same level as any other in terms of queues and I can either wait in line for Figment or I can hop over to Universal and wait in line for Harry Potter.

In fact, maybe WDW should just buy Universal, turn them into WDW's fifth and sixth gate, extend HogWart's Express to merge with the monorail, and include the two additional parks as a new Park Hopper tier.

Yeah, then I wouldn't need a MagicBand AND a Universal Ticket. I'm calling Staggs right now..........

Yea, because that is so easy to do especially for those that are locked into the WDW highly decorated prison. You can just get bored and hop a monorail over to Universal. There may be a few that can do that easily but you have to plan ahead unless you have a car already. Even renting one needs a certain amount of planning ahead. I don't fault you if you want to be a commando guest. Actually I feel kind of sorry for you because spending all your time running from ride to ride you miss the fun of actually looking at things, chatting with fellow guests and so on. Yes, if your object is to ride rides and the more the better, then that is the way to go. Me? I like to feel that I am on vacation and not trying to meet some imagined deadline. Life is like that enough.

 

[mom2rtk]

Yea, because that is so easy to do especially for those that are locked into the WDW highly decorated prison. You can just get bored and hop a monorail over to Universal. There may be a few that can do that easily but you have to plan ahead unless you have a car already. Even renting one needs a certain amount of planning ahead. I don't fault you if you want to be a commando guest. Actually I feel kind of sorry for you because spending all your time running from ride to ride you miss the fun of actually looking at things, chatting with fellow guests and so on. Yes, if your object is to ride rides and the more the better, then that is the way to go. Me? I like to feel that I am on vacation and not trying to meet some imagined deadline. Life is like that enough.

I believe the PP has already spring for a private monorail on his next visit at a cost of $86 for the week.

 

[goofyernmost]

And when we go back to WDW, we will be doing fewer ADRs just to have a little bit of unscheduled time left in our days.

That time may have not been scheduled but it was used unless you go without eating. I could probably use a bunch fewer meals myself. But, if you do stop to eat you are going to use the time up either way. Scheduled or not. Remember I said I was going to be there for 3 days and I only scheduled 2 ADR's. That left a lot of unscheduled time on my hands. Again though I was one that never did that before, so it was an added number of ADR's not less.

 

[mom2rtk]

That time may have not been scheduled but it was used unless you go without eating. I could probably use a bunch fewer meals myself. But, if you do stop to eat you are going to use the time up either way. Scheduled or not. Remember I said I was going to be there for 3 days and I only scheduled 2 ADR's. That left a lot of unscheduled time on my hands. Again though I was one that never did that before, so it was an added number of ADR's not less.

There's a difference between having to keep an appointment to eat and just doing it when the spirit moves you.

Don't get me wrong. we love eating at TS restaurants at Disney. But the more things you add to your schedule, the more rigid the day becomes. At least to us. I was good with 1 "appointment" a day. I'm not good with 4. I apparently have no choice on the 3 FP appointments (I know..... I can do standby. Let's not go there.) But the 1 TS a day we used to do is totally expendable.

I'm glad you like it though.

 

[flicx]

If you continue to feel that all that MM+ was is FP+ then you might be right. However, FP+ is but a small part of the whole system that included a whole lot of software as well as programing. Remember the biggest part of an iceberg is the part that cannot be seen. I'll be briefly explaining why it possible is making money in my next response down below.

I fully understand fast pass plus is a small part of MMplus. This was a response to a poster claiming Disney is making money on fp plus but was losing money on legacy. In my opinion I think that notion is flat out wrong. Fast pass plus is a money suck in my opinion. Note I said fast pass plus/ separate from MMplus. The number of cast members is far more to operate the new fp system, the learning curve is so much more complex for plus, and quite frankly will stay that way for the life of FP plus in its current form. (Note these are my opinions).

 

[goofyernmost]

I fully understand fast pass plus is a small part of MMplus. This was a response to a poster claiming Disney is making money on fp plus but was losing money on legacy. In my opinion I think that notion is flat out wrong. Fast pass plus is a money suck in my opinion. Note I said fast pass plus/ separate from MMplus. The number of cast members is far more to operate the new fp system, the learning curve is so much more complex for plus, and quite frankly will stay that way for the life of FP plus in its current form. (Note these are my opinions).

Well maybe, maybe not. I surely do not have access to the numbers but it seems to me that there are way fewer kiosks for FP+ then there were for legacy. So although there may be more CM's at the kiosk, there might not be any more total then were used before. There was always a CM (at least one) standing by the legacy fastpass machines.

 

[Laketravis]

Yea, because that is so easy to do especially for those that are locked into the WDW highly decorated prison. You can just get bored and hop a monorail over to Universal. There may be a few that can do that easily but you have to plan ahead unless you have a car already. Even renting one needs a certain amount of planning ahead. I don't fault you if you want to be a commando guest. Actually I feel kind of sorry for you because spending all your time running from ride to ride you miss the fun of actually looking at things, chatting with fellow guests and so on. Yes, if your object is to ride rides and the more the better, then that is the way to go. Me? I like to feel that I am on vacation and not trying to meet some imagined deadline. Life is like that enough.

I think the false premise for your comments is buried right there in the middle of them. My point was that I've never considered myself to be a "commando", don't want to be a "commando", and that perhaps Disney could remedy their little issue with ride capacity in one fell swoop by acquiring Universal.

 

[goofyernmost]

I think the false premise for your comments is buried right there in the middle of them. My point was that I've never considered myself to be a "commando", don't want to be a "commando", and that perhaps Disney could remedy their little issue with ride capacity in one fell swoop by acquiring Universal.

Unlikely that it would ever happen and even if it did, how would that help WDW. They are 14 miles apart and would still be free standing places. The same people that go now would go then to both. No change at all in capacity. Adding a new park to WDW might that if they did a good job with it. Unlikely that will happen anymore either. Besides what makes you think that Comcast is interested in selling it?

 

[flicx]

Don't forget the IT department necessary to help with all the glitches and missing FP times while making initial reservations. Plus I am quite sure Disney is spending a butt load of money on wifi/ internet capability to support the new system. Which by the way has to be maintained over the years. So just adding those expenses the money suck grows! They also will probably have to install more kiosks to keep up with demand. A lot of extra expenses (again this is my opinion).

 

[flicx]

No change at all in capacity.

Now we have come to the core of the problem. Disney spent money(billions) to squeeze as much out of what they currently have instead of what I feel would have made everyone happy and continued to grow the bottom line. Build new attractions, ie expand capacity!( yet again my opinion).

 

[goofyernmost]

Now we have come to the core of the problem. Disney spent money(billions) to squeeze as much out of what they currently have instead of what I feel would have made everyone happy and continued to grow the bottom line. Build new attractions, ie expand capacity!( yet again my opinion).

It's sort of like milking the cow until it runs dry and then buying a new cow. Milk the guests until they run dry and then build something to replenish the milk supply.

 

[dayvewc]

Don't forget the IT department necessary to help with all the glitches and missing FP times while making initial reservations. Plus I am quite sure Disney is spending a butt load of money on wifi/ internet capability to support the new system. Which by the way has to be maintained over the years. So just adding those expenses the money suck grows! They also will probably have to install more kiosks to keep up with demand. A lot of extra expenses (again this is my opinion).

I agree that they are adding wifi/internet capacity to the parks, but the key is that they are adding capacity, not installing it solely and initially for FP+. I don't think you can reasonably credit all the cost of the increase to FP+, though it is all in support of the entire new system of MM+. The increased capacity was already needed, but I personally feel as though they did underestimate the additional bandwidth ultimately required. Though that is something that will continually need to be periodically increased regardless, based on the consumers moving to rely on their portable devices more and more.

I am not sure that even the IT department help is completely a cost sink. As pointed out earlier, while there are more CM's at each kiosk, there are fewer kiosks than FP- machine stations. It may be that the employee cost was simply levelized between in-park CM and phone help-desk CM's. Net wash IF that is the case (not saying it is, just tossing out that anecdotal evidence of "i spent 1 hour and 40 minutes on the phone" may not actually require more people than Disney was employing before).

My opinion, as yours is yours. Just trying to highlight things that you don't appear to have considered.

 

[Cormoran]

It's sort of like milking the cow until it runs dry and then buying a new cow. Milk the guests until they run dry and then build something to replenish the milk supply.

Agree with your premise, but it's really sad that a company known for it's sterling customer service has turned their backs on their guests in pursuit of the almighty buck! I also wonder how many guests will return once the supply is replenished?

 

[flicx]

I agree that they are adding wifi/internet capacity to the parks, but the key is that they are adding capacity, not installing it solely and initially for FP+. I don't think you can reasonably credit all the cost of the increase to FP+, though it is all in support of the entire new system of MM+. The increased capacity was already needed, but I personally feel as though they did underestimate the additional bandwidth ultimately required. Though that is something that will continually need to be periodically increased regardless, based on the consumers moving to rely on their portable devices more and more.

I am not sure that even the IT department help is completely a cost sink. As pointed out earlier, while there are more CM's at each kiosk, there are fewer kiosks than FP- machine stations. It may be that the employee cost was simply levelized between in-park CM and phone help-desk CM's. Net wash IF that is the case (not saying it is, just tossing out that anecdotal evidence of "i spent 1 hour and 40 minutes on the phone" may not actually require more people than Disney was employing before).

My opinion, as yours is yours. Just trying to highlight things that you don't appear to have considered.

Well the new system created the demand to have smart phones at the ready along with ipads etc. Thus IMO added more layers of cost to plus. I also truly believe the legacy kiosks demanded less cast members, it was just a simpler system to use. There were so many less rides under legacy that had fastpass. Lets also not forget the new scanners that were installed to read the bands at each ride. In my opinion I just don't think the customer gained enough to justify the expenditure, of course Disney really wasn't concerned with the customer, just milking the cows so to speak. I really would have loved to have seen half, just half of what was spent to build new attractions and add the much needed capacity. I truly believe people wouldn't be talking about canceling or cutting back on Disney trips! But hey it's all conjecture on my part.

 

[dayvewc]

Well the new system created the demand to have smart phones at the ready along with ipads etc. Thus IMO added more layers of cost to plus. I also truly believe the legacy kiosks demanded less cast members, it was just a simpler system to use. There were so many less rides under legacy that had fastpass. Lets also not forget the new scanners that were installed to read the bands at each ride. In my opinion I just don't think the customer gained enough to justify the expenditure, of course Disney really wasn't concerned with the customer, just milking the cows so to speak. I really would have loved to have seen half, just half of what was spent to build new attractions and add the much needed capacity. I truly believe people wouldn't be talking about canceling or cutting back on Disney trips! But hey it's all conjecture on my part.

I agree that adding capacity (ride/event wise) would be a wonderful thing. I just don't quite think that we can know, yet if ever, that FP+ (and only that portion) is significantly more or less than the costs under legacy. And when we step back and look at the total interconnectedness of the entire MM+ I can absolutely see that - long term - being cost effective. Think about the IT department, now instead of having to fix and correct a half dozen glitchy systems, they only have to focus on 1 really big glitchy system.