I am beginning to lose hope...

[ArwenMarie]

And are they adding enough attractions to do anything more than just keep even with attendance growth? If they ever want to monetize it without ticking off guests, they need to pick up the pace on new construction.

I agree. They can't monetize it now without basically going to a boutique-park model, cutting their attendance numbers way way down. Which would mean a lot less food and drink and merchandise sold.

But it seems like literally everything is on the table other than building rides.

 

[mom2rtk]

But it seems like literally everything is on the table other than building rides.

Well, Tom Staggs did say they weren't going to engage in an arms race of rides with Universal. And I believe him.

 

[JimmyV]

Those other 4 guests tho, saved 40 min each, and WILL do a combination of many things... from riding other rides, to eating , to swimming , to buying an extra drink at the pool, to mini-golfing cuz they have extra time. They will not all spend more, but some of them, will. It doesn't take "all" spending more to make "some" spending more a major increase in profit.

And here is where none of us has hard data, pro or con, to tell if FP+ is a profit source or money suck. Personally? I travel with a budget. If I have time freed up for me by not waiting in line, I will find other entertainment to fill the void that does not involve spending money. I just checked the expenses of our last 3 trips (2 with FP- and 1 with FP+...I am retentive and track every penny), and our per person, per day and total cost numbers were all lower in the FP+ trip. I am not blaming this on FP+ or attributing this to FP+. Just an observation. FP+ obviously didn't cause me to buy one single extra Mickey Bar. YMMV.

 

[MrInfinity]

It is generally understood that off site and local guests make up more than half of the attendance. 90% occupancy is too high and 4 people per room is too high. Actual numbers are closer to 85% (in a good year, and I think Disney is on a string of good years) and 3.2 people per room. Maybe "throwaway rooms" cause the occupancy percentage to go up, but the unoccupied rooms drives the per person number down.

You actually have this data? Where is this from? Particularly the "more than half" (I believe this is the case at DL but not WDW) and the 3.2 ppl per room...

Throwaway room is not relevant. If someone is staying offsite but books a room, then they do indeed visit when their room is booked, it doesn't matter if they also booked a room elsewhere. They are considered in the resort group for that night. And if they cancel it before arrival, then it will be either rebooked to someone else, or be counted as vacant.

Don't know why you're saying numbers are "closer to 85%". We just got official numbers on this yesterday.

 

[JimmyV]

You actually have this data? Where is this from? Particularly the "more than half" (I believe this is the case at DL but not WDW) and the 3.2 ppl per room...

Yes. I have a brother who managed a Disney hotel for 12 years.

 

[JimmyV]

Don't know why you're saying numbers are "closer to 85%". We just got official numbers on this yesterday.

That's the difference between "yesterday" and "historically". You posted earlier that Disney is "killing it". So why wouldn't you extrapolate backwards to conclude that 90% is an up tick?

 

[flicx]

Wrong. Suffice it to say we have been loyal, locked-in, extremely profitable guests for decades.

If Disney is truly trying to push people who spend money at Disney like you lake I want to have a long talk with there financial wizzes. In my business I treat my loyal customers the best. They are your bread and butter when things get thin.

 

[Cormoran]

Your statement that FP+ is costing more in IT support than FP ever cost is not supported by the quote you referenced.

It is clear that creating/implementing MM+ costs more than not implementing MM+ and keeping FP-. But are they spending more on IT support for FP+ than FP- ever cost?

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. But I think FP was lot less expensive.
You can honestly say with a straight face that Legacy FP cost more or the same in IT support as FP+? Really? Did you call IT support about problems with the FP kiosks under the legacy system? I didn't. Did I ever have to call IT under the Legacy system because my FP's poofed? I didn't.
I guess we would have to know what the ink and paper cost in the FP machines, but I would bet the FP+ is leaving a much bigger carbon footprint on our Earth than legacy ever did. All of these smart phones being used by the guests burn through the battery power and require frequent re-charging. Since 40% of our electricity comes from coal, and coal increases green house gasses, this can't be characterized as green technology. Recycled paper can be used and more trees for more paper can be planted. Also, trees have the added benefit of reducing CO2.

 

[WillAustin]

Wrong. Suffice it to say we have been loyal, locked-in, extremely profitable guests for decades.

The idea that the "commando" guests were less profitable just isn't true. As I mentioned in another post, we always stayed deluxe and always dined on property. 2 years ago we were in the parks 25 days, and we live in Texas.

 

[flicx]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. But I think FP was lot less expensive.
You can honestly say with a straight face that Legacy FP cost more or the same in IT support as FP+? Really? Did you call IT support about problems with the FP kiosks under the legacy system? I didn't. Did I ever have to call IT under the Legacy system because my FP's poofed? I didn't.
I guess we would have to know what the ink and paper cost in the FP machines, but I would bet the FP+ is leaving a much bigger carbon footprint on our Earth than legacy ever did. All of these smart phones being used by the guests burn through the battery power and require frequent re-charging. Since 40% of our electricity comes from coal, and coal increases green house gasses, this can't be characterized as green technology. Recycled paper can be used and more trees for more paper can be planted. Also, trees have the added benefit of reducing CO2.

The whole wasted paper argument is funny. How much is being wasted by these new magic bands?

 

[WillAustin]

The whole wasted paper argument is funny. How much is being wasted by these new magic bands?

Quite a lot, I'd guess. Every reservation gets a new set sent out. On a split stay, we got multiple sets.

 

[JimmyV]

The idea that the "commando" guests were less profitable just isn't true. As I mentioned in another post, we always stayed deluxe and always dined on property. 2 years ago we were in the parks 25 days, and we live in Texas.

That really does tell the story. When I looked back on my trip expenses, it became very clear and obvious that my totals varied only as a result of hotel rates and meals eaten. One extra Signature meal with a $120 bottle of wine can account for the entire difference from one year to the next. In-park spending due to "found time" doesn't make a bit of difference. My days from 8:00-5:00 are steady to a fault. My nights (counting hotel rate and dinner/wine) account for 100% of the variability.

 

[sam'smominco]

I am sure this question has been answered somehow on here, but I can't seem to find an answer....

We are coming up on our FP+ window for our April trip and I am trying to decide on my strategy. We have park hoppers and always go to a different park in the afternoon/evening. If I use my FP+ selections for the second park of the day, am I still able to get regular FP's (like in the old days from a kiosk) at our first park in the morning? Or can I not get any FP at all until I use the FP+ selections?

It has been two years since our last trip so I wasn't sure if the old style FP has been phased out completely?

 

[Hokie2000]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. But I think FP was lot less expensive.
You can honestly say with a straight face that Legacy FP cost more or the same in IT support as FP+? Really? Did you call IT support about problems with the FP kiosks under the legacy system? I didn't. Did I ever have to call IT under the Legacy system because my FP's poofed? I didn't.
I guess we would have to know what the ink and paper cost in the FP machines, but I would bet the FP+ is leaving a much bigger carbon footprint on our Earth than legacy ever did. All of these smart phones being used by the guests burn through the battery power and require frequent re-charging. Since 40% of our electricity comes from coal, and coal increases green house gasses, this can't be characterized as green technology. Recycled paper can be used and more trees for more paper can be planted. Also, trees have the added benefit of reducing CO2.

No, I didn't say that FP- costs more in IT support than FP+. I had interpreted what you said as the amount Disney is spending on IT support for FP+ was more than all of what they spent on FP-. If I interpreted you incorrectly I apologize.

You may be correct, as it's a safe assumption that MM+ requires more IT support. How much of it is strictly for FP+, and how does that cost compare to maintaining the old FP system? There's no way to know.

I'm speaking from strictly a cost perspective. Discussing carbon footprints would require a whole 'nother thread.

 

[grimley1968]

I am sure this question has been answered somehow on here, but I can't seem to find an answer....

We are coming up on our FP+ window for our April trip and I am trying to decide on my strategy. We have park hoppers and always go to a different park in the afternoon/evening. If I use my FP+ selections for the second park of the day, am I still able to get regular FP's (like in the old days from a kiosk) at our first park in the morning? Or can I not get any FP at all until I use the FP+ selections?

It has been two years since our last trip so I wasn't sure if the old style FP has been phased out completely?

There's a helpful thread about this subject here: http://www.disboards.com/threads/fa...ed-priorities-and-strategies-part-ii.3326057/

I would try to answer directly, but I can't condense the whole FP+ concept enough and that thread is hugely helpful anyway.

 

[JimmyV]

Or can I not get any FP at all until I use the FP+ selections?

This. Kiosks are locked out for you until you use or cancel your existing FPs.

 

[cakebaker]

I am sure this question has been answered somehow on here, but I can't seem to find an answer....

We are coming up on our FP+ window for our April trip and I am trying to decide on my strategy. We have park hoppers and always go to a different park in the afternoon/evening. If I use my FP+ selections for the second park of the day, am I still able to get regular FP's (like in the old days from a kiosk) at our first park in the morning? Or can I not get any FP at all until I use the FP+ selections?

It has been two years since our last trip so I wasn't sure if the old style FP has been phased out completely?

As others have said, you have to use the 3 selections before you can get any additional ones. What I would suggest is that you try the morning park with no fp+'s. If you go when the park opens ( works especially well with the MK), you can get in rides using standby without long waits. If you bypass the headliners for the less popular rides, many of them are a walk on. Then when you go to that park as your afternoon park, you can get the headliners with your fp's. We always do it this way and it works quite well.

 

[Dr Gevil]

I am sure this question has been answered somehow on here, but I can't seem to find an answer....

We are coming up on our FP+ window for our April trip and I am trying to decide on my strategy. We have park hoppers and always go to a different park in the afternoon/evening. If I use my FP+ selections for the second park of the day, am I still able to get regular FP's (like in the old days from a kiosk) at our first park in the morning? Or can I not get any FP at all until I use the FP+ selections?

It has been two years since our last trip so I wasn't sure if the old style FP has been phased out completely?

I would suggest that you find Mesaboy's thread of FP+ strategies. It is a wonderful trove of just the type of info you are looking for in your questions above.

This thread, while entertaining at times, has devolved into the usual ad nauseum Pro/Con FP+ debate that is really not useful, except for the entertainment factor.

Hope you enjoy your trip!

 

[JimmyV]

What I would suggest is that you try the morning park with no fp+'s. If you go when the park opens ( works especially well with the MK), you can get in rides using standby without long waits.

In other words...Rope Drop is the antidote to the limitations of FP+. Yet somehow whenever someone says this, a battle ensues.

 

[skriegerjr]

Tossing out a theory: they want to make sure there are kiosk-based FP+ available for people who are clueless about the online system. The only way they can do that is restrict those who of us who are technically clued from grabbing lots of successive passes online.

I think this is honestly a big part of this. Trying to level the playing field...