How does vandalism and looting accomplish anything???

[Colleen27]

The irony is that those people are just as bad as the cops who take justice into their own hands. No peace? Are they prepared to have more of their children shot down by police? You don't want to be targeted, not sure chanting no justice, no peace and looting will get that target off your back.

I agree about the looting, but not chanting and protesting? You're really saying that people should just sit down, shut up, and ignore violence as a way of improving their lot in life?

Looting accomplishes nothing, but grassroots protests are sometimes the only way to get enough attention to see justice done (or at least attempted). Google "Aliyah Jones Detroit" for a great example - young girl shot dead in the middle of a filmed-for-TV raid, and without the agitation of the general public it is very likely the officer who shot her never would have been charged. He wasn't convicted. They threw a stun grenade in a window and kicked down the door in a sketchy neighborhood in the middle of the night, and then used the homeowner's (an older black woman, the girl's grandmother) panicked reaction to justify the shooting. And the real tragedy of it is that they weren't even in the right house - the suspect they were looking for lived in the other half of the duplex.

I can't claim to know what it is like to be part of a community that has to accept things like the "collateral damage" killing of a first grader by police, but I imagine enough stories like that make one rather uneasy with the idea of sitting back and waiting for an investigation. Heck, even in my all-white area where race isn't a factor those investigations tend to go well for the officer involved - one in my county just had DUI charges dropped after a minor (no injuries) accident and remains on the job. If anyone else had been behind the wheel in those same circumstances his license would be suspended for at least 6 months, but this cop is back to patrolling our streets less than a week after the incident.

Everyone recognizes race is an issue in policing. Does everyone recognize that there's a valid (albeit unfair) reason for it?

That thinking is part of the problem... Not just because it supports the police treatment of young black men as criminals but because it more subtly justifies workplace and educational discrimination against those same young men, making them more likely to turn to criminal behaviour in the first place. If you believe it is reasonable to suspect every young black man of being up to now good, how likely is it that you'd hire one? Promote one?

Same here in the Capitol District.

Detroit too. A young white girl killed in a rural community is headline news for weeks but a black man killed in Detroit doesn't even make the evening news.

What is currently happening in Ferguson does not bode well for combating the image of police brutality. The reporting on twitter is outstanding but horrifying. The only reason the police issue a complete media blackout is that they don't want people to see what is happening.

Working reporters detained & arrested. They are being year gassed & shot with bean bags for doing their job. This is 2014 in America & horrifying.

I agree. That's what I find most unsettling about the whole thing - the basic premise that there is no such thing as peaceable assembly, never mind that it is specifically mentioned in that pesky little Constitution of ours, and the intimidation of the press. Maybe they should just stop taking pictures and video so they can "get that target off their backs" rather than asserting their legal rights.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

They are pulling out the Ferguson police.

 

[JanaDee]

The riot gear? Well, I'm sure it protects better than a uniform shirt against stones and flying glass bottles.

The news said today that they closed the airspace because their police aircraft were being shot at. Not sure if this is true or not, but if it is, then it makes sense to keep civilian aircraft (including news choppers) from the area--fewer targets to be shot at.


Also, I am wondering if the thought process might be--remove the media presence, the situation may cool down quicker. People see a video camera and go nuts when they are simply filming a shot about school starting...seeing the news outlets during the protests/riots might just incite some people to the next level. KWIM?

They've asked for the FBI to come in. They're handling the investigation.

Last of all, the police can't stand down until there is some other law enforcement there to take over. People do not have the self control to keep things calm and peaceful--we saw that the first night, when they were looting a tire store and a dollar store, when they burned down the QT. Someone has to stand in front of those people and stop the destructive behavior. Someone has to protect the businesses, the people not involved in the protests, the guys just driving by. FBI cannot do it, that isn't what they are trained for. National Guard could come in, but that would bring more flashbacks to the 50s and 60s, wouldn't it? The state police would work, but I don't know if Illinois has any--or if they have the training for this.

 

[Airship Ariadne]

Who said anything about Martial law? A measured and appropriate response using the training and manpower of something like the national guard doesn't' mean martial law.

Actually, if used for law enforcement, that is EXACTLY what it is...law enforcement by military troops.

It is amazing how quickly the story has shifted and with their actions the police have started to lose the PR battle...even far right politicians like Rand Paul are calling them out!

"The images and scenes we continue to see in Ferguson resemble war more than traditional police action."

http://time.com/3111474/rand-paul-ferguson-police/

 

[RadioNate]

Actually, if used for law enforcement, that is EXACTLY what it is...law enforcement by military troops.

It is amazing how quickly the story has shifted and with their actions the police have started to lose the PR battle...even far right politicians like Rand Paul are calling them out!

"The images and scenes we continue to see in Ferguson resemble war more than traditional police action."

http://time.com/3111474/rand-paul-ferguson-police/

We can argue semantics. Call it a peace keeping mission. My point is they can and have gone into situations without armored tanks and guns drawn. Clearly that tactic is not working well. The military uses proven de-escalation techniques all the time in combat areas. None of which are being employed in this situation. So either the area police are not adequately trained in these areas or they think excessive force is warranted.

What is telling is that BOTH sides are seeing the problems here and thing the police have gone too far.

As with many situation of abuse, if this is what the Ferguson & St Louis County police departments are doing when people are watching, it absolutely makes you wonder what was happening 'behind closed doors.'

Removing the camera and reporters only serves to keep those doors closed and abuses hidden.

 

[rickybobby]

Need a temporary curfew, say 10:00 pm.

 

[Airship Ariadne]

We can argue semantics. Call it a peace keeping mission.

I think in general we believe the same things, but I can't sign on to plans to use military forces in law enforcement roles on US soil (semantics or not, it is martial law) because that is against much of what the founders believed in (though yes, President Washington lead a military force against protesters in the "Whiskey Rebellion"...the first and last time a "commander-in-chief" actually commanded troops in battle.)

It is like the idea of sending troops to the border, it would be illegal for them to act in law enforcement roles on the border. Even the troops being sent by Texas Gov. Rick Perry are only doing paperwork and non-police duties to avoid breaking the law.

I think the only solution to calm the storm in Ferguson is for the entire police dept to be replaced pending investigation, and for federal authorities to take the officer involved in the shooting into custody...for his protection as well as a good-faith sign that the matter is being taken seriously.

 

[rickybobby]

I think in general we believe the same things, but I can't sign on to plans to use military forces in law enforcement roles on US soil (semantics or not, it is martial law) because that is against much of what the founders believed in (though yes, President Washington lead a military force against protesters in the "Whiskey Rebellion"...the first and last time a "commander-in-chief" actually commanded troops in battle.)

It is like the idea of sending troops to the border, it would be illegal for them to act in law enforcement roles on the border. Even the troops being sent by Texas Gov. Rick Perry are only doing paperwork and non-police duties to avoid breaking the law.

I think the only solution to calm the storm in Ferguson is for the entire police dept to be replaced pending investigation, and for federal authorities to take the officer involved in the shooting into custody...for his protection as well as a good-faith sign that the matter is being taken seriously.

Surely you jest. (Fire 'em all, let God sort them out)

 

[Colleen27]

Here's the exchange in the reporter's own words:Making those sorts of implied threats isn't going to do anyone any good at that point in time.

There's what you have a "right" to do and there's also what's "smart" to do. The reporter had the "right" to say whatever he wanted, that doesn't mean it was "smart".

But that's exactly how police intimidation works... It isn't "smart" to question things or assert your rights, so just shut up and let the police do what they please so you don't face any repercussions. The ideal of keeping the public informed sometimes demands asserting rights even when it isn't smart to do so, as does advocating for social change.

 

[rickybobby]

Okay, many posters say that the protests are to bring attention to the situation so that it gets it's day in court. Well, I think that has happened. FBI in there, Justice Dept investigating, even the President speaking nationally on it.

So why do the nightly protests continue?

 

[rickybobby]

But you are just confirming, in a way, police abusive of power. Why isn't it "smart" to ask questions you are legally allowed to ask? They legally recorded the scene. They asked for names & badge numbers. They asked why they were detained. They asked for copies of the police report. Reporters are supposed to ask questions. But that isn't "smart." Why not? Because they police may respond with unnecessary force & hassle?

Don't speak out. Don't question. Shut up & take it. "Be smart." That's what lets abuse of power & police violations happen. It's easy to get away with it when people are too scared to exercise their rights.

I've looked repeatedly & I can't find out any information on why the cops were called to the McDonalds. Did mgmt ask the 2, reporters to leave before calling? According to both reporters they were the only 2 in the McDonalds at the time.

Please be aware that police officers are human (although they are not allowed to be) and can be pushed too far. Yes, they are trained to use restraint, but look at both sides. Some just push them to the limit, and expect them to take it.

 

[rickybobby]

Can't find it either, other than the people on this thread claiming that, but he manager of the McDonalds said of the arrests of the reporters: "It's a bad thing. It's just not good."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...lds-arrest_n_5677161.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

According to reports, one of the establishments looted and burned the first night of unrest apparently called the police to report shoplifting. It was said to be a target, and even had spray painting on the side of the building saying so.
So, if you are the manager at McDonald's, are you publicly going to say anything to inflame the protesters?

 

[TLSnell1981]

While in Europe, I've witnessed a few protests. I noticed law enforcement carrying serious fire power, but it didn't cause violence or looting. One protest was over a shooting in the market, which left a man dead. Still, no 24 hour coverage or lawlessness. I wonder why?

 

[Airship Ariadne]

Please be aware that police officers are human (although they are not allowed to be) and can be pushed too far.

OMG, THIS right here is the perfect summation of the entire thread! You have hit it perfectly...replace "police officers" with "members of the minority community" and we have our answer to the OP question.

This entire situation is a culmination of everyone being pushed too far, and it needs to be defused quickly.

 

[Disneychick75]

Supposedly Governor Nixon is relieving the Ferguson police force of command and the FBI will run the whole show.

http://rt.com/usa/180360-police-louis-policing-ferguson/
“The gov. just called me and he’s on his way to St. Louis now to announce he’s taking St. Louis County police out of the situation,” Rep. Clay told Derek Wallbank, a reporter for Bloomberg, early Wednesday.

According to a local news station, the Federal Bureau of Investigation would take control of the situation.

"The FBI will oversee all operations, protests and other activities in Ferguson," NewsChannel 5 reported. "Local police agencies, including St. Louis County police will now operate under the direction of the FBI."

The FBI has previously acknowledged that it is investigating Saturday’s shooting death, and Rep. Clay issued a statement on Monday with other members of Congress urging federal agents to expand their probe.

“In light of the foregoing developments, we ask the Department of Justice to investigate the shooting of Michael Brown, looking at both the facts of the specific incident as well as the potential for any pattern or practice of police misconduct by the Ferguson Police Department," reads a portion of the statement, signed by Reps. Clay, John Conyers (D-Michigan) and Marsha Fudge (D-Ohio

 

[sunshinehighway]

While in Europe, I've witnessed a few protests. I noticed law enforcement carrying serious fire power, but it didn't cause violence or looting. One protest was over a shooting in the market, which left a man dead. Still, no 24 hour coverage or lawlessness. I wonder why?

of course there have been riots in Europe. Every protest does not lead to a riot (both here and in Euqrope). You don't have to look to hard to find examples of riots and lawlessness in Europe.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

OMG, THIS right here is the perfect summation of the entire thread! You have hit it perfectly...replace "police officers" with "members of the minority community" and we have our answer to the OP question.

This entire situation is a culmination of everyone being pushed too far, and it needs to be defused quickly.

Allegedly, the people doing the looting and destruction were not from Ferguson. So what pushed them?

 

[rickybobby]

of course there have been riots in Europe. Every protest does not lead to a riot (both here and in Euqrope). You don't have to look to hard to find examples of riots and lawlessness in Europe.

Sunshinehighway and I do not agree on many things, but have to agree on this one. Just think Soccer.

 

[NotUrsula]

I'm truly sorry for this, but the coincidence is irresistible ...

Tin soldiers and Nixon coming,
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming ...

(FTR, our Nixon is no relation to that Nixon, but that is just flat weird.)


Also, FWIW, aside from a few yahoos that thought that piling into a car and busting the windows on a shoe store in the wee hours was going to somehow get excused as free speech, this is not spreading to anyplace else in the metro area. If I didn't pay attention to the news I'd never know it was happening. The city as a whole is humming along as usual.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Sunshinehighway and I do not agree on many things, but have to agree on this one. Just think Soccer.

Soccer?!? just calling it that could cause problems.