How do you feel about school vouchers?

[luvsmickeymouse]

I don't think its fair at all. You are right some parents sacrifice everything so that their children can attend these schools, my father was one of them. He also had to pay his taxes to help the public schools. I say if they are giving vouchers for these students, then parents who pay tuition to these schools should receive vouchers for their taxes.
I also think that instead of handing out vouchers so that children can attend better schools, we should be fixing the public school system so that those schools are just as good.

What this says!

 

[SeeVee]

Because every student in that religious highschool is required to take 4 years of theology. They are required to attend mass on the Holy Days and do confession once a year, among other things.
FTR the religious schools are not always better than the public schools. Elementary schools were run the same but its been a very long time since I've attended so things may be different now.

No one is forcing the parent to place thier child in the school. It is a choice. If the rule was that you HAD to use the voucher for a religios school, then I might agree with you.


Not that I agree with the rest of your post either.

 

[castleview]

Sure, and you can buy new clothes, cars, and eat out everynight too.

Huh? If you're implying that money isn't an issue for me, you're so wrong. We sacrifice to live in a good school district. When we lived in our old house, I didn't expect discounts to a private school or for my kids to be placed in a school district that someone else's local taxes are paying for.

 

[SeeVee]

Of course not. It's not possible.

Yeah, somewhere people morphed the phrase, "all men are created equal" to mean that everyone in all things need to be treated equally.

 

[GeorgiaPeach8]

When the public schools have a large monopoly how do you think they can be fixed? When the admins and teachers feel the pressure of competition then they will have a reason to get better.

Teachers already have a reason to improve--it is to teach kids more.

 

[castleview]

Yeah, somewhere people morphed the phrase, "all men are created equal" to mean that everyone in all things need to be treated equally.

 

[Todd&Copper]

Yeah, somewhere people morphed the phrase, "all men are created equal" to mean that everyone in all things need to be treated equally.

I personally think the concept of "equality of access" has morphed into "equality of outcome". Schools are what you make of them. I did not go to a great HS, but I graduated top of my class and went ot a very good college and law school. Know why? My parents valued education and spent time with me. Underperforming schools will not change until parents start giving a damn about their kids. Vouchers or no.

 

[manning]

Teachers already have a reason to improve--it is to teach kids more.

Tell that to Detroit, New York City, Chicago. In New York, thanks to the teacher union, it is next to impossible to fire a proven bad teacher. Now if the teachers would go to their union leadership and say there is something wrong with this we will have a start to better education.

And how did the detroit teachers union receive this offer??

http://www.mlive.com/flintjournal/voices/index.ssf/2008/04/detroit_education_could_have_u.html

Only if many teachers would jump on this reason.

With that my hat is off to those teachers who are dedicated!!!!

 

[RitaZ.]

Huh? If you're implying that money isn't an issue for me, you're so wrong. We sacrifice to live in a good school district. When we lived in our old house, I didn't expect discounts to a private school or for my kids to be placed in a school district that someone else's local taxes are paying for.

I personally know 2 families that purchased their homes to have their children attend specific schools. They thought they were set. Guess what happened? One family found out, when they went to register their children, that their home school was at critical capacity. So, their children were sent to another school. No choice in the matter. There was no room for their children in their home school. The other family lived a block away from the school, then the boundaries were changed and their children were sent to a school that was farther away. So much for moving to a better school boundary.

The school board doesn't give a crap about what parents think. Whenever there is a proposed boundary change, parents are given the opportunity to attend public meetings to express their opinions. It's all a formality, but ultimately their opinions are worthless. The school board does what it wants. I cringe whenever I hear the words "We do what's best for the child." The reality is that doing what's best for the child is usually at the bottom of the list.

 

[GeorgiaPeach8]

Tell that to Detroit, New York City, Chicago. In New York, thanks to the teacher union, it is next to impossible to fire a proven bad teacher. Now if the teachers would go to their union leadership and say there is something wrong with this we will have a start to better education.

And how did the detroit teachers union receive this offer??

http://www.mlive.com/flintjournal/voices/index.ssf/2008/04/detroit_education_could_have_u.html

Only if many teachers would jump on this reason.

With that my hat is off to those teachers who are dedicated!!!!

I know those cities really give teacher's unions a bad name. I don't understand what is going on...I recently read an article about NY having an entire building of bad teachers sitting at desks getting paid to do nothing...I did notice from the article that NY is not NEA. As I said in pp...the best time to fire a teacher is the first four years. If they can't cut it by then...let them go. In KY you don't even have to give a reason just thanks but no thanks.

 

[dsanner106]

Because a good school isn't a good school just because of the building, teachers and curriculum. A good school also has good parent involvement and kids who care.

If you take a failing school and take all the kids out of the school and put them into an excellent school, and take all the kids from that excellent school and put them into the failing school (basically you switch the kids) I guarantee you within a few years that school that was failing will no longer be failing and the school that was excellent will no longer be excellent.

Yes, schools are failing because the parents aren't as involved as they should be. Maybe once this country owns up to that and starts holding the parents and kids responsible, we'll start to see less and less schools fail.

Unfortunately there are some wonderful kids and parents in failing schools (it just isn't the majority). But they did chose that school system when they moved there.

So what you are saying is that the involved parents, who pay attention to their kids education and know their schools intimately, are choosing to pull their kids out of the public schools in droves and populating the private schools, explaining the better grades etc? Kind of like when the forest animals head for cover long before we realize a natural disaster is about to hit??? Doesn't this very fact tell you that the schools themselves are a real problem? The "smart parents" are pulling their kids out because they do care. The schools are the first part of the equation that must be solved, as we are not going to reverse the trend of single parent homes etc, that has contributed so much to the lack of parent involvement. One parent, who works is not going to have as much time to help with homework, or sit on a school board, or help in classrooms. Blaming them is not going to fix the problem.

D

 

[castleview]

I personally know 2 families that purchased their homes to have their children attend specific schools. They thought they were set. Guess what happened? One family found out, when they went to register their children, that their home school was at critical capacity. So, their children were sent to another school. No choice in the matter. There was no room for their children in their home school. The other family lived a block away from the school, then the boundaries were changed and their children were sent to a school that was farther away. So much for moving to a better school boundary.

The school board doesn't give a crap about what parents think. Whenever there is a proposed boundary change, parents are given the opportunity to attend public meetings to express their opinions. It's all a formality, but ultimately their opinions are worthless. The school board does what it wants. I cringe whenever I hear the words "We do what's best for the child." The reality is that doing what's best for the child is usually at the bottom of the list.

I disagree that your opinions are worthless. Yes, school boards can be annoying but if you keep bugging them - they will do their best to help out. If you don't approve, vote them out...or run for Board of Ed yourself (generic you, not being snotty .

When I say district, I mean town. That's how it works in the Northeast. I know many school districts go by county which is more difficult to figure out. I made sure all the schools in the town I moved to were good.

 

[castleview]

The schools are the first part of the equation that must be solved, as we are not going to reverse the trend of single parent homes etc, that has contributed so much to the lack of parent involvement. One parent, who works is not going to have as much time to help with homework, or sit on a school board, or help in classrooms. Blaming them is not going to fix the problem.

D

But blaming the school will fix the problem? I don't think so. Yes, it stinks if you're a single mom. But when it comes to helping with homework...you just do. It's your responsibility as a parent. Personally, I think a big problem in public schools is that parents of all backgrounds think the schools should be responsible for so many other things besides teaching your children.

 

[dsanner106]

I have no problems with my tax money going to a religious school. You missed my point. I don't want the state going into a religious school and telling them they can't teach theology anymore.

Kids with special needs are afforded services under IDEA and deserve those services. I have no problem with the kids receiving the services in a private school, because they aren't being taught theology at the time.

If I choose to pay for my kids to go to a Christian school, I don't want the govt stepping in and saying they can't get theology anymore because the ACLU has stepped in. AND, I would still expect the speech therapist to come in and give them services because my tax dollars pay for them to be afforded that right.

That is why a voucher system is the answer. The govt. gives the money to the student and it is theirs to use at the school of their choice. The govt. is not giving the money to the schools and having their claws attached. If my local christian school takes a student and accepts his voucher for payment, there are no special govt. guidelines they must abide by, they will not stop bible class and the govt. can't make them. Under our current system, the govt. gives money directly to the schools and has LOTS of guidelines they must meet or lose the funding. under a voucher system the student is the customer and the only way to lose them is to not perform and lose the customer.

D

 

[creativeamanda]

That is why a voucher system is the answer. The govt. gives the money to the student and it is theirs to use at the school of their choice. The govt. is not giving the money to the schools and having their claws attached. If my local christian school takes a student and accepts his voucher for payment, there are no special govt. guidelines they must abide by, they will not stop bible class and the govt. can't make them. Under our current system, the govt. gives money directly to the schools and has LOTS of guidelines they must meet or lose the funding. under a voucher system the student is the customer and the only way to lose them is to not perform and lose the customer.

D

You honestly think that that's going to keep the ACLU from jumping in at some point and trying to tell the school, "You accept govt funds, so no religion"? Come on. The ACLU has an agenda. That agenda is to get rid of faith altogether.

 

[dsanner106]

But blaming the school will fix the problem? I don't think so. Yes, it stinks if you're a single mom. But when it comes to helping with homework...you just do. It's your responsibility as a parent. Personally, I think a big problem in public schools is that parents of all backgrounds think the schools should be responsible for so many other things besides teaching your children.

Nope, that is why I said fixing schools was the FIRST part of the equation, I know parents and other things play roles as well. All these kids live in different homes, in different parts of town and have different home lives, the one common denominator is that they all sit in the same school. Logically the school is the first thing we fix and then try to work our way out from there. There is plenty of blame to go around and it is a pointless waste of time to do so. We need happy teachers, to attract better qualified people into teaching, and to pay them to stay. We need to make school into a place kids don't hate to go to (quite so much) and get the kids to drag their parents into the school. Disney is a great example, we on the disboards are an anomaly. Most parents I know make the trip to Disney to make the kids happy (shut them up) and do dozens of other things for the same reason. The happy meal drives McDonalds sales. and McDonalds is the most successful restaurant in the world. Disney is tops in their field as well. Why not take a system that works and apply it to our schools???

D

 

[mumom95]

So what you are saying is that the involved parents, who pay attention to their kids education and know their schools intimately, are choosing to pull their kids out of the public schools in droves and populating the private schools, explaining the better grades etc? Kind of like when the forest animals head for cover long before we realize a natural disaster is about to hit??? Doesn't this very fact tell you that the schools themselves are a real problem? The "smart parents" are pulling their kids out because they do care. The schools are the first part of the equation that must be solved, as we are not going to reverse the trend of single parent homes etc, that has contributed so much to the lack of parent involvement. One parent, who works is not going to have as much time to help with homework, or sit on a school board, or help in classrooms. Blaming them is not going to fix the problem.

D

Just because the "smart parents" are pulling the kids out doesn't mean it is the schools fault. If you have a class of 24 kids, with 20 of them coming from homes where the parents don't give a hoot about education and those 20 kids in turn don't give a hoot about their education, doesn't matter how good the teacher is, that environment is not going to be a good experience for those 4 kids who do have parents that care. So those parents pull their kids out and put them in a school that has better parent involvement.

And yes, I feel blaming the parent is the first step in fixing the problem. Because, ultimately, I believe the parents and kids are the problem. If parents would care more about their kids education, the public school system would work fine. And there are plenty of single parents that value education are very involved in their child's education, so you can't use that as an excuse. How else do you explain that some public schools are great? If the system is so wrong, how do so many of the schools in this country perform fine?

 

[dsanner106]

I disagree that your opinions are worthless. Yes, school boards can be annoying but if you keep bugging them - they will do their best to help out. If you don't approve, vote them out...or run for Board of Ed yourself (generic you, not being snotty .

When I say district, I mean town. That's how it works in the Northeast. I know many school districts go by county which is more difficult to figure out. I made sure all the schools in the town I moved to were good.

Hmm, I think you live a really nice place. Where I live, the school board is the first access for people wanting to become politicians. It is where they get the feet wet in the games of stalling, money wasting, graft, etc. I am in what was a nice suburb of Atl. A group of outsiders, mostly city of Atlanta teachers came in as a block and used dirty politics to get themselves on our board. Since then, we have lost all say in what goes on in the schools. We are allowed to speak at one meeting a month for 2 hours total. During this time the members get up and leave, take out portable tv's to watch and NEVER respond to anything said. We are losing our accredidation for the entire system Sept 1, 52,800 students. Our test scores are above average for the state in most areas, the kids are good, and yet they lose. Where are those vouchers??/

http://projects.ajc.com/topics/metro/clayton-county-schools/

Google for many more stories on this.

D

 

[castleview]

Hmm, I think you live a really nice place. Where I live, the school board is the first access for people wanting to become politicians. It is where they get the feet wet in the games of stalling, money wasting, graft, etc. I am in what was a nice suburb of Atl. A group of outsiders, mostly city of Atlanta teachers came in as a block and used dirty politics to get themselves on our board. Since then, we have lost all say in what goes on in the schools. We are allowed to speak at one meeting a month for 2 hours total. During this time the members get up and leave, take out portable tv's to watch and NEVER respond to anything said. We are losing our accredidation for the entire system Sept 1, 52,800 students. Our test scores are above average for the state in most areas, the kids are good, and yet they lose. Where are those vouchers??/

http://projects.ajc.com/topics/metro/clayton-county-schools/

Google for many more stories on this.

D

It's far from perfect and I'm sure at least one of the members is doing Sudoku during public comment.

 

[dsanner106]

Just because the "smart parents" are pulling the kids out doesn't mean it is the schools fault. If you have a class of 24 kids, with 20 of them coming from homes where the parents don't give a hoot about education and those 20 kids in turn don't give a hoot about their education, doesn't matter how good the teacher is, that environment is not going to be a good experience for those 4 kids who do have parents that care. So those parents pull their kids out and put them in a school that has better parent involvement.

And yes, I feel blaming the parent is the first step in fixing the problem. Because, ultimately, I believe the parents and kids are the problem. If parents would care more about their kids education, the public school system would work fine. And there are plenty of single parents that value education are very involved in their child's education, so you can't use that as an excuse. How else do you explain that some public schools are great? If the system is so wrong, how do so many of the schools in this country perform fine?

Yes, but how do we fix the parents? you are talking about 100 million different entities when you use the word parents. They are each individuals with their own reasons for participating or not in the schools. What would you suggest we do that would apply to them all? When you use the word schools, you are referring to a much more limited number of school districts that can definately be affected with change. It just makes sense to start at the core and work out. As for why some schools are at the top and others at the bottom, it is the same reason some NFL teams are at the top and others at the bottom. Even if we improve things accross the board, there will always be a best and worst. If we raise the level of schools, our level of standards will rise. Average will still be the line that divides the above average 50% from the below average 50%.

D