Holy Diagon Alley Batman!

[Rileygirl]

Disney may be a destination, but....... There is no "but" after that. Universal sounds great. They have great attractions and new shiny stuff, but Disney resonates with people emotionally. Universal doesn't. I'll give an analogy. Disney is like the Spurs of the NBA, and Universal are the Clippers. The Clippers are much more exciting to watch, but the Spurs are the Champions. The Clippers have new and exciting stars, while the Spurs have the same old coach from the 90's and older players.

You see, I disagree with this.

Universal has 'bought' the emotional connection with millions and millions of people by getting the HP franchise. You should google the popularity of HP world wide. North America is only on small piece of the fandom. Harry Potter and his glasses are probably just as recognizable and as loved as Mickey Mouse. This is global. I am not sure if UO had anything so global before. Disney has been global for years.

You don't need a great franchise in order to have a great attraction. However, Universal fast tracked itself by 20 years by getting the hottest fandom out there, that is beloved by todays teens and youth, enjoyed by the 20 to 30 group, and these are the customers of the future. (One of their biggest marketing problems is that UO is trying to market solely using internet - and I think that will work great in the future, but right now, not as much, they have to get mom and dad to book the vacation, and they can't do that if they don't know what is out there)

Will HP have the endurance of say Star Wars? I don't know. But we are not talking just about new and shiny attractions here. We are talking about a huge concerted effort from imagineering/resorts/dining (hey they are putting together dining plans too as well)/ entertainment, all aspects of Universal are growing and changing at a dynamic level that is a little mind boggling. And their focus is now 'family' more so then a teen mecca for thrill rides. A previous poster was listing all the changes that will happen at UO before Avatar even gets off the ground. Its inspiring and exciting. But its also going to be global and long term. Its going to resonate with the new generations like cinderella resonated with us.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I just read this somewhere this week..

When guests arrive at certain Disney resorts, Cast Members are trained to greet them with “welcome home.” Those two words express the essential theme of the Disney experience. Disney parks and resorts around the world are designed to return guests to all the comforts of the idea of “home” – the luxury of having details taken care of for you, of gaining a sense of safety, of believing in a world where innocence and friendliness still have a place. Disney parks tap into our desire to be at home, not in the physical sense of residence, but a place of safety and nostalgia.

Universal Orlando does not attempt to compete with the gentle comforts of Disney World. Instead, it turns its attention to our deep-seated desire for adventure and heroism. If entering a Disney park is like coming home, entering a Universal park is like delving into every childhood dream of completing a daring quest and being special. Every environment is meant to hint at an opportunity for glorious exploits, and every ride and attraction strives to make you the hero of the moment, the survivor, the one who saved the day.

Can't post the URL, but it's the Orlando Informr

Anyway, I thought it really captured the difference in feel between Universal and Disney.

 

[mom2rtk]

I just read this somewhere this week but I can't remember where...

Anyway, I thought it really captured the difference in feel between Universal and Disney.

The idea was that Disney is about home, nostalgia, being a child again, etc

Universal is about going on new adventures.

Both cool ideas, but very different.

Today's parents did not read HP as children. But the HP generation is in their early 20's. Pretty soon it will indeed be about nostalgia and being a child again for them.

 

[ArwenMarie]

duplicate

 

[ArwenMarie]

Today's parents did not read HP as children. But the HP generation is in their early 20's. Pretty soon it will indeed be about nostalgia and being a child again for them.

True, Universal will be able to peddle nostalgia, and quite soon when you think about it.

I think those future parents will also be Disney customers, unless Uni makes a concerted effort to appeal to the 3-7 year olds more, which it doesn't seem like they are going to.

 

[clsteve]

Today's parents did not read HP as children. But the HP generation is in their early 20's. Pretty soon it will indeed be about nostalgia and being a child again for them.

Hey, I did!

Oh wait, you said "as children", not "... with the maturity level of children". My bad.....

 

[johde]

Yet there are many people who will swear that Cape Cod is better. US attendance grew 14% last year, by far the best in Central Florida. I am sure that internally, they consider that a successful year irrespective of whether the net attendance numbers fall short of Disney. In the boardroom, they care about increasing their own attendance, not besting Disney's. It is only here on a fan board does the concept of "overtaking Disney" ever come into play. And you don't even say what area you are talking about. Profit? Attendance? What? Cape Cod chips will never overtake Lays in sales or profit. But in quality? They are probably already there. You can look at USO the same way. It will not surpass Disney in attendance. But that is not the only measure. If you think that Disney's past 5 years were more dynamic than Universal's past 5 years, well, maybe you need to start paying attention a little bit more to other people's opinions rather than dismissing them outright.

As an outsider, most of Disney's growth over the past 10 years has been build on the perception of "value" and "locking in" peoples vacation time: Free Dining, MYW tickets that in 2005 that basically give away extra days after the first 3, 7 days for the price of 4 after the hurricanes, Disney's Magical Express. Up until 2009, Universal tried to play the same game.


From 2003 to 2009, WDW was sweeping the floor with Universal. WDW's attendance was growing while Universal's was shrinking. Island's of adventure (new in 1999) only opened 2 new attraction since opening, Storm Force Accelatron in 2000, and Seuss Trolly in 2006 (a ride in a different form that was supposed to be an opening day attraction).

With WWoHP, in 2010, Universal changed tactics. Instead of trying to compete on price, Universal started this building spree with WWoHP Hogsmead, Transformers, WWoHP Diagon Alley. Renovating older attractions with more relevant Characters, Simpsons replacing Back to the Future and Despicable Me replacing Nicktoons. Anybody who denies the success they've had with that strategy has their head in the sand.

In 2009, Universal had 10.1 million visitors and you could get a 7 consecutive day pass for $99 or a Power pass for $100. Last year, Universal had 15.2 million visitors and currently a 4 day park to park pass at the gate or a power pass costs $219. Universal's attendance has increased 50% while at the same time they've had over a 100% increase in the price of longer term admission.

By comparison, Walt Disney World has increased attendance 47.5 million to 50.1 million a 5.5% increase over them same time. A 7 day park hopper has increased from $286 to $384 a 34% increase in prices. Annual Passes with from $489 to $684 or a 39% increase.

Like you said, in absolute term, no Universal is not winning but they've shifted the momentum in their favor.

 

[JimmyV]

Today's parents did not read HP as children. But the HP generation is in their early 20's. Pretty soon it will indeed be about nostalgia and being a child again for them.

I think this is the point many miss. Look at how many attractions there are at WDW that are based on themes and characters from the 1930s through 1950s that children today would never discover organically. Yes, Disney was about coming home and nostalgia if you are in your 50s and your parents grew up with Mickey Mouse and Dumbo. But today's 18 year old, when they are a 28 year old parent in ten years, won't be coming home to Dumbo or Peter Pan out of a sense of nostalgia. Heck. Most 18 year olds have never seen the movie "Dumbo". It may not seem that way here because this board is populated by people who own every Disney VHS and DVD ever made. But we aren't normal. Outside of this bubble are a bunch of young adults who have never seen Dumbo, Peter Pan, Song of the South, Robin Hood, Pinocchio or Fantasia. They can't come home to that which was never in their home in the first place. But what they can come home to are the franchises that Disney has done a terrible job incorporating into the parks......Wall-E, The Incredibles, Bolt, Up, Cars (at least in FL), Monsters Inc., among others. HP means more to young adults today than Dumbo does. So eventually, the idea that Disney equals nostalgia will get eroded.

 

[DorianDonP]

Disney may be a destination, but....... There is no "but" after that. Universal sounds great. They have great attractions and new shiny stuff, but Disney resonates with people emotionally. Universal doesn't. I'll give an analogy. Disney is like the Spurs of the NBA, and Universal are the Clippers. The Clippers are much more exciting to watch, but the Spurs are the Champions. The Clippers have new and exciting stars, while the Spurs have the same old coach from the 90's and older players.

Haha I like someone pulling basketball into a theme park discussion, though I strongly disagree with the example given. The Spurs had one of the most exciting offenses I have ever had the pleasure of watching this season. The ball movement was phenomenal, as well as watching them rain down 3's on everybody.

Plus, the average age of the starting lineup for the Clippers is 28 and the average age of the starting lineup for the Spurs is 29. Both teams had exactly 5 players on the roster older than 30 years old. The MVP of the Finals was one of the youngest to ever win it for the Spurs. It's a myth that the Spurs are an old team filled with old players.

Anyway this isn't the ESPN basketball board so I digress.

 

[DisUniversal]

[Edited: Somehow I pulled the wrong quote in, so I deleted it. sorry! ]

Ok, I am only on page 18, but I just feel the dire need to talk about this.

Disney has been a destination since it opened MK and two hotels. Why? Because it has always been marketed as a destination. And it has been BRILLIANTLY marketed as a destination. And every year or two, they add another layer to the complexity of using subtle psychology to make the vacation goer not only come to disney, but to stay in the 'bubble'.

Disney was a 'Destination' since it opened MK and two hotels, however most didn't spend a week there. It was a 2 or 3 day destination and then most likely either went on to see other parts of Florida or went home.

Worse still, those fans who do make the trek (many of them from across the ocean) soley to see HP, end up getting sucked into the Disney machine, because Universal ADVERTISES that its a 2 or 3 day place to visit by its VERY ticket structure. Universal does not market themselves as a destination. Disney is the king of destination advertising.

How do they advertise itself as a 2 or 3 day place? They simply state that if you're spending more than 3 days in the parks your best value is to just buy an annual pass.

Disney does not have to add new attractions this year, or next year, Universal is pulling the people in for them. They have to be laughing themselves silly about this.

I doubt anyone at Disney is laughing over their growth going flat while a competitor up the road is experiencing double digit growth. I think that is a fantasy that many "inside the bubble" share, but it's not reality.

Disney does not have to do anything great to WDW attraction wise, they are siphoning off guests that are coming to Orlando to see HP. And they way they market themselves, Disney ends up with 80% of the guests money and time.

My how times have changed. I remember when it was Universal who had to siphon off guests who came down to Orlando to see Disney. Maybe now that Disney is eating the leftovers it will motivate them to do something worthwhile for their guests.

Universal is not going to try to market itself as a vacation destination yet, perhaps when they add their water park, or other hotels, or whatever. Their cowardice is costing them huge revenue and handing money to Disney.

I don't know where you get the impression that they don't market themselves as a destination. They just finished their 4th hotel and submitted plans for an expansion to RPR and/or a 5th hotel. You think they're doing that because they aren't able to fill existing rooms? UO is very much a destination and has made some pretty bold moves to state that fact.

Comparing the marketing team of Disney vs Universal, is like comparing the Boston Red Soxs to your local kids house league. Its too bad, because Universal is SPANKING Disney on every other level. The infrastructure is being set up, the 5 year plan is taking shape, they have the franchise to rocket them to the stars, just not the marketing team...

Seems like whenever I turn on the TV lately, I'm seeing a commercial or a TV special about Universal. Disney...I see the silly 7DMT commercial where everyone is wearing sunglasses like it's the amazing "cool" ride. I'm not so sure it's Universal who has the marketing issues. Disney relies heavily upon it's past. There's a reason why Disney has to say things like "Remember the Magic" and not "Experiance the Magic".

 

[JimmyV]

Disney is like the Spurs of the NBA, and Universal are the Clippers.

Not sure I follow the analogy. The Clippers and Spurs are neck and neck in terms of popularity.

Attendance:
LAC=788k
SAS=755k

Jersey sales:
SAS ranked 9th
LAC ranked 10th

 

[crostorfer]

Disney may be a destination, but....... There is no "but" after that. Universal sounds great. They have great attractions and new shiny stuff, but Disney resonates with people emotionally. Universal doesn't. I'll give an analogy. Disney is like the Spurs of the NBA, and Universal are the Clippers. The Clippers are much more exciting to watch, but the Spurs are the Champions. The Clippers have new and exciting stars, while the Spurs have the same old coach from the 90's and older players.

I wholeheartedly disagree that Universal doesn't resonate with people emotionally. Well, perhaps not Universal as a whole, but you are seriously underestimating the emotional depth and devotion of Harry Potter's fandom. I cried when I entered through the gates of Hogsmeade at IOA in 2010 at 33 years old. I really did. It was one of the most magical moments of my life. At the moment I'm actively avoiding watching videos and seeing pictures of Diagon Alley, because I'm hoping for that same feeling and a similar reaction in October.

 

[DisUniversal]

I think this is the point many miss. Look at how many attractions there are at WDW that are based on themes and characters from the 1930s through 1950s that children today would never discover organically. Yes, Disney was about coming home and nostalgia if you are in your 50s and your parents grew up with Mickey Mouse and Dumbo. But today's 18 year old, when they are a 28 year old parent in ten years, won't be coming home to Dumbo or Peter Pan out of a sense of nostalgia. Heck. Most 18 year olds have never seen the movie "Dumbo". It may not seem that way here because this board is populated by people who own every Disney VHS and DVD ever made. But we aren't normal. Outside of this bubble are a bunch of young adults who have never seen Dumbo, Peter Pan, Song of the South, Robin Hood, Pinocchio or Fantasia. They can't come home to that which was never in their home in the first place. But what they can come home to are the franchises that Disney has done a terrible job incorporating into the parks......Wall-E, The Incredibles, Bolt, Up, Cars (at least in FL), Monsters Inc., among others. HP means more to young adults today than Dumbo does. So eventually, the idea that Disney equals nostalgia will get eroded.

Good point. My kids are all in their teens now and though it's hard to remember, I don' think they ever saw Peter Pan or Pinocchio or Snow White. Pretty sure they did see Dumbo and some of the more recent ones like Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast. They pretty much grew up with Toy Story (and the rest of the Pixar films), Shrek and yes, Harry Potter and someday that is what they're going to want to take their kids to see.

What Universal has to be careful with is their affinity for ripping out old attractions to replace them what what is new and shiny. To me right now that is a huge plus because I like "new and shiny", however you can't under estimate the power of nostalgia to draw people in. When I go to Universal today, there is just ONE attraction remaining from when I first started going there. They can't keep doing that if they want to build memories. Fortunately Harry Potter changes all that and I don't see that investment going anywhere for many decades.

 

[TandLMommy28]

I hate to say it but I really do think that Disney is losing it's touch... they aren't DOING anything... It doesn't even make sense. I think they are just coasting along right now, relying on past success to get them by but Universal just keeps stepping up their game, more and more. I'm really temped to do a Universal vacation one of these years. It's cheaper and seems a lot more exciting. The only thing holding me back is not being a HP fan and it seems SO MUCH of Universal is HP...

Disney really needs to up their game. MagicBands seem to annoy people more than entice them. New Fantasyland is nice and all but taking four years to get it done? I mean, really. And now, while Universal is constantly adding bigger and better what is Disney doing? Making new walkways at the hub.

Not that we will stop going any time soon. But I do think that as my kids get older, if Disney doesn't do something drastic, we just might convert.

 

[DisUniversal]

I hate to say it but I really do think that Disney is losing it's touch... they aren't DOING anything... It doesn't even make sense. I think they are just coasting along right now, relying on past success to get them by but Universal just keeps stepping up their game, more and more. I'm really temped to do a Universal vacation one of these years. It's cheaper and seems a lot more exciting. The only thing holding me back is not being a HP fan and it seems SO MUCH of Universal is HP...

It just seems like so much of it is HP because that is what's new and being advertised. It's really just a 'land' within each park....sort of like if Frontierland at MK and Africa at AK were themed to something you weren't a fan of. You wouldn't avoid the rest of what was offered. Plus, whether you're a fan or not, the HP areas are amazing. Probably the best themed areas of any park anywhere.

Disney really needs to up their game. MagicBands seem to annoy people more than entice them. New Fantasyland is nice and all but taking four years to get it done? I mean, really. And now, while Universal is constantly adding bigger and better what is Disney doing? Making new walkways at the hub.

Not that we will stop going any time soon. But I do think that as my kids get older, if Disney doesn't do something drastic, we just might convert.

You don't have to convert....just enjoy both for what they are.

 

[Mad Hattered]

Good point. My kids are all in their teens now and though it's hard to remember, I don' think they ever saw Peter Pan or Pinocchio or Snow White. Pretty sure they did see Dumbo and some of the more recent ones like Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast. They pretty much grew up with Toy Story (and the rest of the Pixar films), Shrek and yes, Harry Potter and someday that is what they're going to want to take their kids to see.

What Universal has to be careful with is their affinity for ripping out old attractions to replace them what what is new and shiny. To me right now that is a huge plus because I like "new and shiny", however you can't under estimate the power of nostalgia to draw people in. When I go to Universal today, there is just ONE attraction remaining from when I first started going there. They can't keep doing that if they want to build memories. Fortunately Harry Potter changes all that and I don't see that investment going anywhere for many decades.

I'm still upset that they ripped out JAWS because it was very nostalgic to me. I guess I can live with Diagon Alley replacing it, though.

 

[DisUniversal]

[/b]

I'm still upset that they ripped out JAWS because it was very nostalgic to me. I guess I can live with Diagon Alley replacing it, though.

Yes, that's a tough pill to swallow.

At least Universal has a pretty good record of replacing attractions with something better. Disney seems to do just the opposite and more times than not, they replace an attraction with something worse...or nothing at all.

 

[Planogirl]

Both Disney and Universal have ripped out great attractions. I'm still reeling over what Future World has become. However Universal could keep the nostalgia in place while upgrading and refurbishing at a good steady rate. Disney could too but they seem less willing lately.

 

[clsteve]

Disney was a 'Destination' since it opened MK and two hotels, however most didn't spend a week there. It was a 2 or 3 day destination and then most likely either went on to see other parts of Florida or went home.

How do they advertise itself as a 2 or 3 day place? They simply state that if you're spending more than 3 days in the parks your best value is to just buy an annual pass.

I don't know where you get the impression that they don't market themselves as a destination. They just finished their 4th hotel and submitted plans for an expansion to RPR and/or a 5th hotel.

Good points and I'll just add something worth considering:

Where Disney has been in the "lock'em in" business, UOR seems to be embracing the "We know you'd like to do other things in Orlando" strategy. For example, what UOR has done with Cabana Bay is very interesting. Cabana Bay provides very affordable Family Suites, other accommodations, and amenities worthy of a week's stay in their own right. But it doesn't provide Express Pass. Instead of locking the guest in, they're saying: come stay with us for the week; spend 2, 3, or 4 days in our Parks; and hit SeaWorld (which is right next door), BG, LegoLand, or the beaches if you'd like. If you're having a great time with us - that's excellent! Add on a couple of Park days, and grab Express Pass if it makes sense for you...! Even the Flex Ticket and other ticket combos reflect this.

This may well end up as a very smart strategy - not going the "lock'em in" route. It's easy for many to forget just how much of an expense hit the "lock'em in" infrastructure is to Disney. Orlando's entertainment options are only expanding And UOR is situated right in the middle of much of it. Why not be The Hub for that? And instead, lock them in to UOR with innovation and ammenities. What they do with the next Hotels that are in the works as far as type of Hotel and the ammenities will be very telling.....

 

[Planogirl]

Good points and I'll just add something worth considering:

Where Disney has been in the "lock'em in" business, UOR seems to be embracing the "We know you'd like to do other things in Orlando" strategy. For example, what UOR has done with Cabana Bay is very interesting. Cabana Bay provides very affordable Family Suites, other accommodations, and amenities worthy of a week's stay in their own right. But it doesn't provide Express Pass. Instead of locking the guest in, they're saying: come stay with us for the week; spend 2, 3, or 4 days in our Parks; and hit SeaWorld (which is right next door), BG, LegoLand, or the beaches if you'd like. If you're having a great time with us - that's excellent! Add on a couple of Park days, and grab Express Pass if it makes sense for you...! Even the Flex Ticket and other ticket combos reflect this.

This may well end up as a very smart strategy - not going the "lock'em in" route. It's easy for many to forget just how much of an expense hit the "lock'em in" infrastructure is to Disney. Orlando's entertainment options are only expanding And UOR is situated right in the middle of much of it. Why not be The Hub for that? And instead, lock them in to UOR with innovation and ammenities. What they do with the next Hotels that are in the works as far as type of Hotel and the ammenities will be very telling.....

I agree. Besides how would a "lock them in" approach work for Universal? Would anyone actually give up WDW to go to Universal exclusively when it's such an unknown element for so many?

It makes sense to me for them to lure people to the resort for ANY amount of time and then people can see how they could become a destination. Win them over first and then work on getting them back and for longer stays.