Holy Diagon Alley Batman!

[bumbershoot]

Sorry dude, but your beloved Universal is #2. Better rooms, great rides, but #2. Not even in the same ball park. Just be happy you're #2. Great job!

To you. I have a different opinion.

Not fair about the rooms at Polynesian, they did finally update them since that picture.

Thank goodness!

I actually prefer people like you don't listen to my opinion. Less people in line in front of me (to use a classic rose-colored example).

I've started to wonder why I'm helping people go to Universal, since it just means more people there.



It's horrible! Awful. Don't go, you'll be totally bored. No theming, nothing pretty or lovely at all.

 

[Mad Hattered]

No, not that much. But god, those were ugly. I actually couldn't believe how long the Grand Floridian had those horrid bedspreads.... yes, I'm a bedspread snob.

So is DW! If we ever walk into a hotel and there happens to be one she immediately rips it off throws it in a corner in the room. We have seen way too many CSI tv shows.

 

[Tonyz]

If you are HP geeks I'd make some time. Universal has it going on, Disney not so much these days. Disney is coasting while everyone else is giving you a reason to go.
This from a Disney fan.

Yeah this is a good point, from a die hard Disney dude. But I think Disney still gives you reason to go, obviously. They already have sooooo much that they might not feel the need to compete so heavily with Universal, since Universal is kinda playing catch up (but doing a damn fine job at it)!

It would be interesting to compare the two parks say around 2008 or so. Harry Potter hadn't opened yet at all, and Disney just introduced Toy Story and Everest. They were on top of the world then.

THAT was the last time Disney was winning the current attraction battle. But maybe it doesn't matter... because they're still winning the overall war.

(war/battle/win-lose comparisons made purely light hearted)

 

[Mad Hattered]

Yeah this is a good point, from a die hard Disney dude. But I think Disney still gives you reason to go, obviously. They already have sooooo much that they might not feel the need to compete so heavily with Universal, since Universal is kinda playing catch up (but doing a damn fine job at it)!

It would be interesting to compare the two parks say around 2008 or so. Harry Potter hadn't opened yet at all, and Disney just introduced Toy Story and Everest. They were on top of the world then.

THAT was the last time Disney was winning the current attraction battle. But maybe it doesn't matter... because they're still winning the overall war.

(war/battle/win-lose comparisons made purely light hearted)

Universal was about down and out completely back then. Then this person bought them and then this one and then Comcast bought them. I'm not sure if you are aware, but Comcast tried to buy Disney (around 2004 - not exactly sure of the year, but I think they tried the hostile takeover method). That obviously didn't work out so they bought Universal from Blackstone (I think).

That is part of the reason they are going ***** to the wall against Disney right now. The goal is to not "beat" Disney, but they want to take away as much market share as they possibly can. Universal is MUCH better off than they were before Comcast bought them and reinvented themselves with the addition of HP. They've bought a lot of land across the street (I-4) and rumors are all over the place about just what they are going to do with that plot. Disney has the good fortune of having much more real estate than Universal but Comcast is invested in the parks and want to take as much advantage as they can (they will not "beat" Disney).

I think most people hope that with some serious competition down the street now (8 miles away) that WDW steps it up and adds some worthy additions that interest crowds that aren't focused on 5 year old girls. They have a bunch of "old" people who are begging for a Star Wars addition. I will be right there frothing at the mouth with tons of other fans if something like that was to happen.

 

[Tonyz]

I think most people hope that with some serious competition down the street now (8 miles away) that WDW steps it up and adds some worthy additions that interest crowds that aren't focused on 5 year old girls. They have a bunch of "old" people who are begging for a Star Wars addition. I will be right there frothing at the mouth with tons of other fans if something like that was to happen.

Can only be a good thing for us all!

 

[Mad Hattered]

Can only be a good thing for us all! :debwalk:

Exactly! But please excuse my impatience at times.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

But...Disney and Universal aren't apples to apples. It isn't comparing one park to another, or one hotel against another

You ever see Pulp Fiction? Man, you're not even in the same ball park (I'll leave off the colorful language).

Remember the rental car company that was happy to be #2? They tried harder but were still #2.

Sorry dude, but your beloved Universal is #2. Better rooms, great rides, but #2. Not even in the same ball park. Just be happy you're #2. Great job!

When they overtake Disney I'll listen to your opinion but until then...meh.

I'm sorry...but your take is drawing on what dead men (and women...) did in the past much more than the current regime...

If you look at the last 15 years...the effort has been unimpressive compared to the past when taken on the aggregate. Look at that segment.

I hope you really are fascinated with the nostalgia...you're giving Wall Street hacks an excuse to charge you alot more for it

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Yeah this is a good point, from a die hard Disney dude. But I think Disney still gives you reason to go, obviously. They already have sooooo much that they might not feel the need to compete so heavily with Universal, since Universal is kinda playing catch up (but doing a damn fine job at it)!

It would be interesting to compare the two parks say around 2008 or so. Harry Potter hadn't opened yet at all, and Disney just introduced Toy Story and Everest. They were on top of the world then.

THAT was the last time Disney was winning the current attraction battle. But maybe it doesn't matter... because they're still winning the overall war.

(war/battle/win-lose comparisons made purely light hearted)

Excellent...

Just to flesh it out a little.

Brian Roberts, Comcast CEO, had a history with Disney and specifically Eisner and threw out that takeover bid in 2003.
Now...he's a good executive...his cable sucks (all cable sucks)...but they are a revenue machine rivaling Disney. The previous owners of universal were not. If you have read his history and have read or heard him speak - I think he thirsts for the challenge of going after the big guy...which describes Orlando perfectly. Unlike bob the stock slug who is a tanning booth tinkerer looking for low cost "profits" on the fringes of his fabric.

I'll never be convinced that the Comcast bid wasnt meant to disrupt Disney and force Eisner out...Roberts calls it a mistake, but he was never dumb enough to think Disney could be taken over against the board will at that time...
He had an inside guy...his name was roy e Disney...and it succeeded.
Remember...Comcast is a content delivery entity (even moreso at that time) and Disney product is a huge part of that (especially that crappy sports network)...they are rivals with Disney really only in parks...partners elsewhere.

But Comcast also sees the danger in their core business...with threats for the digital future come from all kids of angles - notable google and apple.
Content is the future and they are moving that way. Amusement parks and travel are a manifestation of content.

They are going to continue to muscle in...
Look at their history:
Buy TV conglomerate? Check
Massively flesh out destinations? Check and accelerating
Increase international presence? Check and continuing
Acquire content? Stay tuned on that...but it's going to happen.

The wdw complex has too much of a head start...size being a big one but also the difference in economics from their construction periods to now...
Comcast will not "catch up" completely

But they can definitely cut into share...and that is gonna be brutal to the glorified accountants in Anaheim and their stock analyst buddies...

There are only a handful of big entertainment giants that fit into the same category...disney was never competing against one in the themepark market before...
Until now. It's not about the history of the parks...it's that now they have somebody competing with stones and as big of a wallet.

They could have tinkered with parks like the previous UOR owners...
They obviously are not.

They are not equal...but don't be silly enough to not watch this develop.

 

[Rileygirl]

Excellent...

Just to flesh it out a little.

Brian Roberts, Comcast CEO, had a history with Disney and specifically Eisner and threw out that takeover bid in 2003.
Now...he's a good executive...his cable sucks (all cable sucks)...but they are a revenue machine rivaling Disney. The previous owners of universal were not. If you have read his history and have read or heard him speak - I think he thirsts for the challenge of going after the big guy...which describes Orlando perfectly. Unlike bob the stock slug who is a tanning booth tinkerer looking for low cost "profits" on the fringes of his fabric.

I'll never be convinced that the Comcast bid wasnt meant to disrupt Disney and force Eisner out...Roberts calls it a mistake, but he was never dumb enough to think Disney could be taken over against the board will at that time...
He had an inside guy...his name was roy e Disney...and it succeeded.
Remember...Comcast is a content delivery entity (even moreso at that time) and Disney product is a huge part of that (especially that crappy sports network)...they are rivals with Disney really only in parks...partners elsewhere.

But Comcast also sees the danger in their core business...with threats for the digital future come from all kids of angles - notable google and apple.
Content is the future and they are moving that way. Amusement parks and travel are a manifestation of content.

They are going to continue to muscle in...
Look at their history:
Buy TV conglomerate? Check
Massively flesh out destinations? Check and accelerating
Increase international presence? Check and continuing
Acquire content? Stay tuned on that...but it's going to happen.

The wdw complex has too much of a head start...size being a big one but also the difference in economics from their construction periods to now...
Comcast will not "catch up" completely

But they can definitely cut into share...and that is gonna be brutal to the glorified accountants in Anaheim and their stock analyst buddies...

There are only a handful of big entertainment giants that fit into the same category...disney was never competing against one in the themepark market before...
Until now. It's not about the history of the parks...it's that now they have somebody competing with stones and as big of a wallet.

They could have tinkered with parks like the previous UOR owners...
They obviously are not.

They are not equal...but don't be silly enough to not watch this develop.

Wow
amazing post, very interesting. I remember the failed take over bid too. Wasn't there one in the 80's or 90's too?

I have been away for three days, and now have to catch up on this thread. I should not have started at the last page....

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Disney was about to be raided and sold off in 1984 by corporate raider Saul steinberg...

Roy Disney arranged the ouster of his cousin's husband...Ron miller, son in law of Walt Disney, in favor of Michael Eisner and frank wells.

It saved Disney and launched their greatest period of prosperity...
But Disney was small potatoes then.
They had mortgaged their farm to build EPCOT (estimates on their actual costs are mind numbing) and had no TV or movie product at the time...they were listing dinosaurs...

Not in 2003...completely different animal

The book DISNEY WAR...published in 2005...is highly recommended for anyone who wants to understand the history and business of Disney

 

[Violet Parr]

Excuse me if this has been all over the disboards for the last 7 months or so as i haven't been planning a trip until this week, so I'm not up to speed, but what is the current status of planned upgrades/additions at WDW? I've seen Star Wars referenced a few times. Is that a confirmed project? I seem to recall back in December or so seeing something about how DL has plenty of planned expansion but a bunch of WDW projects were shelved because of the expenditures on Magic Bands/FP+. (I don't necessarily know if that is true, and I personally LOVED MB and FP+.)

Is there anything planned? Is Avatar still in the works?

Thanks!

VP

 

[lockedoutlogic]

There's the avatar expansion that just started in animal kingdom which is just getting started...realistically 4 years away.
And downtown Disney is under heavy construction and will be online late next year/early 2016. That is mall development more like what you see elsewhere.
That's the facts

Anything else is fanboy nonsense that's nowhere near close...
They will tinker with shows and fireworks, however

 

[Rileygirl]

[Edited: Somehow I pulled the wrong quote in, so I deleted it. sorry! ]

Ok, I am only on page 18, but I just feel the dire need to talk about this.

Disney has been a destination since it opened MK and two hotels. Why? Because it has always been marketed as a destination. And it has been BRILLIANTLY marketed as a destination. And every year or two, they add another layer to the complexity of using subtle psychology to make the vacation goer not only come to disney, but to stay in the 'bubble'.

Magic Bands are a big part of the subtle psychology, more brilliant then front loading tickets, or magic express, or anything else they have done in the past in order to get a visitor, and keep the visitor. Additionally, this system is going to hook the 'off site' guest into prepurchasing their park tickets, and getting them through the gates, to spend their day, and their money, so the 'machine' is now reaching out past their own hotel guests, and putting them into a mental headlock too.

Many non theme park or disney people would argue with all of us that no theme park is a destination. We are conversing as a community that is intensely interested in Disney, in Universal, and in theme parks, so the overall community perspective is skewed in that manner. I think its important to keep this in mind as well.

The fact that our community, on a whole, DOES NOT SEE that UO is in fact, an outstanding vacation destination only reflects on the piss poor job their marketing has done. However, we are only a small piece of the puzzle. If you take our entire community of disboarders, past and present, how would it compare to HP fans that are world wide today? Why is Universal not marketing to them as a vacation destination? Would even 10% of HP fans be theme park fans? Id guess no. They don't NEED or WANT 7 days in different theme parks. They want a vacation. An affordable one would be even better.... (something UO can offer cheaper then disney, better current quality that Disney can offer, resort comparison in my own opinion). The vacation becomes horrendously expensive when a family has to buy 2 sets of theme park tickets. Think of how many doors are being shut to North American fans, because they do not view UO as a destination, and when they price out a vacation, they include Disney...)

They want a vacation, and to 'see' HP. Why is UO not marketing themselves to these millions and millions of Fans?

Worse still, those fans who do make the trek (many of them from across the ocean) soley to see HP, end up getting sucked into the Disney machine, because Universal ADVERTISES that its a 2 or 3 day place to visit by its VERY ticket structure. Universal does not market themselves as a destination. Disney is the king of destination advertising.

Disney does not have to add new attractions this year, or next year, Universal is pulling the people in for them. They have to be laughing themselves silly about this.

 

[Lucky4me]

[Edited: Somehow I pulled the wrong quote in, so I deleted it. sorry! ]

Ok, I am only on page 18, but I just feel the dire need to talk about this.

Disney has been a destination since it opened MK and two hotels. Why? Because it has always been marketed as a destination. And it has been BRILLIANTLY marketed as a destination. And every year or two, they add another layer to the complexity of using subtle psychology to make the vacation goer not only come to disney, but to stay in the 'bubble'.

Magic Bands are a big part of the subtle psychology, more brilliant then front loading tickets, or magic express, or anything else they have done in the past in order to get a visitor, and keep the visitor. Additionally, this system is going to hook the 'off site' guest into prepurchasing their park tickets, and getting them through the gates, to spend their day, and their money, so the 'machine' is now reaching out past their own hotel guests, and putting them into a mental headlock too.

Many non theme park or disney people would argue with all of us that no theme park is a destination. We are conversing as a community that is intensely interested in Disney, in Universal, and in theme parks, so the overall community perspective is skewed in that manner. I think its important to keep this in mind as well.

The fact that our community, on a whole, DOES NOT SEE that UO is in fact, an outstanding vacation destination only reflects on the piss poor job their marketing has done. However, we are only a small piece of the puzzle. If you take our entire community of disboarders, past and present, how would it compare to HP fans that are world wide today? Why is Universal not marketing to them as a vacation destination? Would even 10% of HP fans be theme park fans? Id guess no. They don't NEED or WANT 7 days in different theme parks. They want a vacation. An affordable one would be even better.... (something UO can offer cheaper then disney, better current quality that Disney can offer, resort comparison in my own opinion). The vacation becomes horrendously expensive when a family has to buy 2 sets of theme park tickets. Think of how many doors are being shut to North American fans, because they do not view UO as a destination, and when they price out a vacation, they include Disney...)

They want a vacation, and to 'see' HP. Why is UO not marketing themselves to these millions and millions of Fans?

Worse still, those fans who do make the trek (many of them from across the ocean) soley to see HP, end up getting sucked into the Disney machine, because Universal ADVERTISES that its a 2 or 3 day place to visit by its VERY ticket structure. Universal does not market themselves as a destination. Disney is the king of destination advertising.

Disney does not have to add new attractions this year, or next year, Universal is pulling the people in for them. They have to be laughing themselves silly about this.

Because Universal got a late start into this whole destination thing. But they are catching up and doing a FINE job of it while WDW has been resting on it's laurels.

Avatar land is a JOKE. They'd be better off scrapping that whole idea and making a Frozen land. Avatar was and will never be a Harry Potter size success or even Frozen and especially not Star Wars. Whoever thought of Avatar land needs to be fired.

Disney may be a destination, but they have done nothing new lately that has excited me or anyone I know who visits on a regular basis. Universal most certainly has and Im looking forward to seeing what they do next. They have also been adverstising EVERYWHERE. TV, radio, internet, everywhere I turn I hear about Universal Orlando. Im not sure what youre talking about them not trying to lure business in. They sure are!

 

[Rileygirl]

You might be missing my point. Late start means nothing. Universal had to change its direction to become truly competitive, and it has. We are not just talking about HP or even the amount of money spent on building new attractions. It was their focus: moderate hotels that can have 6 people, with small kitchens, top attractions that for the most part are family friendly instead of death wishes of teenagers (ok, the hulk totally does me in ) great dining venues, ext,,,

Disney does not have to do anything great to WDW attraction wise, they are siphoning off guests that are coming to Orlando to see HP. And they way they market themselves, Disney ends up with 80% of the guests money and time.

These wonderful venues that Universal are building are benefiting Disney big time. Why does Disney need to invest money into their theme parks to draw in more or new or different crowds? Wisely, they don't. They are investing their money in marketing instead.

Universal is not going to try to market itself as a vacation destination yet, perhaps when they add their water park, or other hotels, or whatever. Their cowardice is costing them huge revenue and handing money to Disney.

Comparing the marketing team of Disney vs Universal, is like comparing the Boston Red Soxs to your local kids house league. Its too bad, because Universal is SPANKING Disney on every other level. The infrastructure is being set up, the 5 year plan is taking shape, they have the franchise to rocket them to the stars, just not the marketing team...

 

[JimmyV]

But...Disney and Universal aren't apples to apples. It isn't comparing one park to another, or one hotel against another

You ever see Pulp Fiction? Man, you're not even in the same ball park (I'll leave off the colorful language).

Remember the rental car company that was happy to be #2? They tried harder but were still #2.

Sorry dude, but your beloved Universal is #2. Better rooms, great rides, but #2. Not even in the same ball park. Just be happy you're #2. Great job!

When they overtake Disney I'll listen to your opinion but until then...meh.

This is the silliest, most petty post I have seen in ages. "I won't listen to your opinion"? Really? Such a mature way to approach a discussion board. As NavyDad pointed out pages ago, this is not a head-to-head competition to be #1. #1 at what? Ride technology? Attendance? Value for dollar paid? Hotel amenities? Shareholder value? Profit? Way too many different facets to this "competition" to even call it a competition. Is Cape Cod potato chips in competition with Lays? Lays probably throws away more chips a day that don't pass quality control than Cape Cod makes in a month. Yet there are many people who will swear that Cape Cod is better. US attendance grew 14% last year, by far the best in Central Florida. I am sure that internally, they consider that a successful year irrespective of whether the net attendance numbers fall short of Disney. In the boardroom, they care about increasing their own attendance, not besting Disney's. It is only here on a fan board does the concept of "overtaking Disney" ever come into play. And you don't even say what area you are talking about. Profit? Attendance? What? Cape Cod chips will never overtake Lays in sales or profit. But in quality? They are probably already there. You can look at USO the same way. It will not surpass Disney in attendance. But that is not the only measure. If you think that Disney's past 5 years were more dynamic than Universal's past 5 years, well, maybe you need to start paying attention a little bit more to other people's opinions rather than dismissing them outright.

 

[ArwenMarie]

[Edited: Somehow I pulled the wrong quote in, so I deleted it. sorry! ] Ok, I am only on page 18, but I just feel the dire need to talk about this. Disney has been a destination since it opened MK and two hotels. Why? Because it has always been marketed as a destination. And it has been BRILLIANTLY marketed as a destination. And every year or two, they add another layer to the complexity of using subtle psychology to make the vacation goer not only come to disney, but to stay in the 'bubble'. Magic Bands are a big part of the subtle psychology, more brilliant then front loading tickets, or magic express, or anything else they have done in the past in order to get a visitor, and keep the visitor. Additionally, this system is going to hook the 'off site' guest into prepurchasing their park tickets, and getting them through the gates, to spend their day, and their money, so the 'machine' is now reaching out past their own hotel guests, and putting them into a mental headlock too. Many non theme park or disney people would argue with all of us that no theme park is a destination. We are conversing as a community that is intensely interested in Disney, in Universal, and in theme parks, so the overall community perspective is skewed in that manner. I think its important to keep this in mind as well. The fact that our community, on a whole, DOES NOT SEE that UO is in fact, an outstanding vacation destination only reflects on the piss poor job their marketing has done. However, we are only a small piece of the puzzle. If you take our entire community of disboarders, past and present, how would it compare to HP fans that are world wide today? Why is Universal not marketing to them as a vacation destination? Would even 10% of HP fans be theme park fans? Id guess no. They don't NEED or WANT 7 days in different theme parks. They want a vacation. An affordable one would be even better.... (something UO can offer cheaper then disney, better current quality that Disney can offer, resort comparison in my own opinion). The vacation becomes horrendously expensive when a family has to buy 2 sets of theme park tickets. Think of how many doors are being shut to North American fans, because they do not view UO as a destination, and when they price out a vacation, they include Disney...) They want a vacation, and to 'see' HP. Why is UO not marketing themselves to these millions and millions of Fans? Worse still, those fans who do make the trek (many of them from across the ocean) soley to see HP, end up getting sucked into the Disney machine, because Universal ADVERTISES that its a 2 or 3 day place to visit by its VERY ticket structure. Universal does not market themselves as a destination. Disney is the king of destination advertising. Disney does not have to add new attractions this year, or next year, Universal is pulling the people in for them. They have to be laughing themselves silly about this.

I agree with this. They are really bad at marketing it as a destination. The website is a mess.

On the other hand, IMO, it's not a week-long destination...yet. I don't think it will take much more to get it there (I think a new onsite waterpark could even be enough)

Regardless, their marketing stinks.

 

[Tonyz]

Exactly! But please excuse my impatience at times.

The need for instant gratification... typical Universal fan.

 

[EPCOTatNight]

Because Universal got a late start into this whole destination thing. But they are catching up and doing a FINE job of it while WDW has been resting on it's laurels.

Avatar land is a JOKE. They'd be better off scrapping that whole idea and making a Frozen land. Avatar was and will never be a Harry Potter size success or even Frozen and especially not Star Wars. Whoever thought of Avatar land needs to be fired.

Disney may be a destination, but they have done nothing new lately that has excited me or anyone I know who visits on a regular basis. Universal most certainly has and Im looking forward to seeing what they do next. They have also been adverstising EVERYWHERE. TV, radio, internet, everywhere I turn I hear about Universal Orlando. Im not sure what youre talking about them not trying to lure business in. They sure are!

Disney may be a destination, but....... There is no "but" after that. Universal sounds great. They have great attractions and new shiny stuff, but Disney resonates with people emotionally. Universal doesn't. I'll give an analogy. Disney is like the Spurs of the NBA, and Universal are the Clippers. The Clippers are much more exciting to watch, but the Spurs are the Champions. The Clippers have new and exciting stars, while the Spurs have the same old coach from the 90's and older players.

 

[Tonyz]

[Edited: Somehow I pulled the wrong quote in, so I deleted it. sorry! ]

Ok, I am only on page 18, but I just feel the dire need to talk about this.

Disney has been a destination since it opened MK and two hotels. Why? Because it has always been marketed as a destination. And it has been BRILLIANTLY marketed as a destination. And every year or two, they add another layer to the complexity of using subtle psychology to make the vacation goer not only come to disney, but to stay in the 'bubble'.

Magic Bands are a big part of the subtle psychology, more brilliant then front loading tickets, or magic express, or anything else they have done in the past in order to get a visitor, and keep the visitor. Additionally, this system is going to hook the 'off site' guest into prepurchasing their park tickets, and getting them through the gates, to spend their day, and their money, so the 'machine' is now reaching out past their own hotel guests, and putting them into a mental headlock too.

Many non theme park or disney people would argue with all of us that no theme park is a destination. We are conversing as a community that is intensely interested in Disney, in Universal, and in theme parks, so the overall community perspective is skewed in that manner. I think its important to keep this in mind as well.

The fact that our community, on a whole, DOES NOT SEE that UO is in fact, an outstanding vacation destination only reflects on the piss poor job their marketing has done. However, we are only a small piece of the puzzle. If you take our entire community of disboarders, past and present, how would it compare to HP fans that are world wide today? Why is Universal not marketing to them as a vacation destination? Would even 10% of HP fans be theme park fans? Id guess no. They don't NEED or WANT 7 days in different theme parks. They want a vacation. An affordable one would be even better.... (something UO can offer cheaper then disney, better current quality that Disney can offer, resort comparison in my own opinion). The vacation becomes horrendously expensive when a family has to buy 2 sets of theme park tickets. Think of how many doors are being shut to North American fans, because they do not view UO as a destination, and when they price out a vacation, they include Disney...)

They want a vacation, and to 'see' HP. Why is UO not marketing themselves to these millions and millions of Fans?

Worse still, those fans who do make the trek (many of them from across the ocean) soley to see HP, end up getting sucked into the Disney machine, because Universal ADVERTISES that its a 2 or 3 day place to visit by its VERY ticket structure. Universal does not market themselves as a destination. Disney is the king of destination advertising.

Disney does not have to add new attractions this year, or next year, Universal is pulling the people in for them. They have to be laughing themselves silly about this.

EXCELLENT post! Very interesting to read.