Hats in Restaurants

The question remains. Exactly why is it good manners to remove a hat in a restaurant?

For the same reason it is good manners to say please and thank you. It is a custom that communicates a degree of respect and appreciation for the other person.

What is the purpose of any custom? Why do we still blow out candles on the birthday cake when we have long since stopped believing in birthday wishes ever coming true?

What is the purpose of tradition? It's just some unnecessary encumbrance of rules and practice that also help unite us as a people.

Doffing ones hat has ALWAYS been a symbolic gesture. It has NEVER served a practical purpose other than to demonstrate respect for an establishment and the people around you.

Without the traditional customs of Courtesy and Etiquette, what would you do instead to make this message known?
 
Hats should always be removed when dining. I feel that isn't very hard to comply with.
 
I was brought up to remove my hat upon entering any home or building...and still do to this day..!

Agreed. As soon as there is a roof over the head, the hat should be removed. Even my kids do it without me asking.
 
It does not bother me one bit if someone chooses to wear a hat, jeans, t-shirt etc and why should it? If someone's attire isn't interfering with your families dinner why should you care?
 

For the same reason it is good manners to say please and thank you. It is a custom that communicates a degree of respect and appreciation for the other person.

What is the purpose of any custom? Why do we still blow out candles on the birthday cake when we have long since stopped believing in birthday wishes ever coming true?

What is the purpose of tradition? It's just some unnecessary encumbrance of rules and practice that also help unite us as a people.

Doffing ones hat has ALWAYS been a symbolic gesture. It has NEVER served a practical purpose other than to demonstrate respect for an establishment and the people around you.

Without the traditional customs of Courtesy and Etiquette, what would you do instead to make this message known?

Did you not ever read The Lottery by Shirley Jackson where it was the town custom to atone someone to death once a year?

Customs change and thank God for that. This country has had some deplorable customs. I won't get into politics lest I infuriate someone, but let's just say that now I can get married and previously it was customarily understood that I could not. Thank God that things change.

As for this silly hat issue, unless the hat has a speaker in it that is blaring music at 400,000 decimals, or flashing, rotating lights, or it shoots bullets, then honestly, who the heck cares? Let people do what they want. It is not altering your life in any possible way. If the aesthetic is so offensive to you that it makes you lose your appetite, don't look at it. Very simple solution. Aren't you there to enjoy your wife, husband, partner, family anyway? So then do so and don't let a baseball cap bother you. Life is too short and there are more important things to worry about.
 
Did you not ever read The Lottery by Shirley Jackson where it was the town custom to atone someone to death once a year?

Customs change and thank God for that. This country has had some deplorable customs. I won't get into politics lest I infuriate someone, but let's just say that now I can get married and previously it was customarily understood that I could not. Thank God that things change.

As for this silly hat issue, unless the hat has a speaker in it that is blaring music at 400,000 decimals, or flashing, rotating lights, or it shoots bullets, then honestly, who the heck cares? Let people do what they want. It is not altering your life in any possible way. If the aesthetic is so offensive to you that it makes you lose your appetite, don't look at it. Very simple solution. Aren't you there to enjoy your wife, husband, partner, family anyway? So then do so and don't let a baseball cap bother you. Life is too short and there are more important things to worry about.

That would be "stone", not "atone" in the first part of this message. Grrrr to this auto correct!
 
I teach high school, and while there's technically a "no hats in the building" rule, most of us are resigned to the fact that it's a losing battle. It's such a part of teenage fashion and culture, it's a constant fight to get them to take their hats off and keep them off. It's not the hill we want to die on, so to speak...we save that battle for cell phones. :eep: So, while I'm thrilled by neither option, I'd much rather have someone in a restaurant silently wearing a hat than loudly yapping on their cell phone...at least I can look away from the hat...
 
I wear baseball hats or mickey ears at the theme park. Ears come off. If I choose to wear a hat that day and I'm eating at a theme park restaurant like..,,crystal palace, cosmic rays, or shopping in an inside store, my hat will,probably stay on. If I freshen up at a hotel before dinner the hat comes off. I have great manners, I hold doors open for others, I give up my bus seat, I say excuse me and please and thank you all the time. But if I choose to wear my hat at the crystal,palace people can get over it...thank you!
 
Customs change and thank God for that. This country has had some deplorable customs. I won't get into politics lest I infuriate someone, but let's just say that now I can get married and previously it was customarily understood that I could not. Thank God that things change.
Of course customs change. Ideas that are destructive or serve no purpose should be thrown to the wayside.

But letting your host and compatriots know that you respect and value them is noble and if you propose to cast asside a custom that does just that then I'm curious what you propose to replace it with.

What it seems like you are saying is that it shouldn't matter to anyone else what you think of them. And that's fine, but that's the type of attitude that is easy to requite.
 
I'd rather not wear a hat, but at WDW it's best to for sun protection. I don't mind removing my hat, because I'd rather not wear it to begin with. However I have enough hair that it's all over the place--sticking up, matted down, etc.
How this is preferable to my cool Mickey Mouse ballcap I'm not sure. The hat etiquette rule also mystifies me, but I'll cooperate.:earsboy:
 
I'd rather not wear a hat, but at WDW it's best to for sun protection. I don't mind removing my hat, because I'd rather not wear it to begin with. However I have enough hair that it's all over the place--sticking up, matted down, etc.
How this is preferable to my cool Mickey Mouse ballcap I'm not sure. The hat etiquette rule also mystifies me, but I'll cooperate.:earsboy:

My hair is all matted and sweaty too. Wouldn't it be best to keep it under a hat.
 
Did you not ever read The Lottery by Shirley Jackson where it was the town custom to atone someone to death once a year?

Customs change and thank God for that. This country has had some deplorable customs. I won't get into politics lest I infuriate someone, but let's just say that now I can get married and previously it was customarily understood that I could not. Thank God that things change.

As for this silly hat issue, unless the hat has a speaker in it that is blaring music at 400,000 decimals, or flashing, rotating lights, or it shoots bullets, then honestly, who the heck cares? Let people do what they want. It is not altering your life in any possible way. If the aesthetic is so offensive to you that it makes you lose your appetite, don't look at it. Very simple solution. Aren't you there to enjoy your wife, husband, partner, family anyway? So then do so and don't let a baseball cap bother you. Life is too short and there are more important things to worry about.

:offtopic: but...

I don't really care that much about the hat issue--it's never been an issue for me--but I do have an issue with the comparison between The Lottery and the custom of removing a hat in public. The Lottery is a fictional short story--no real American customs behind it. Furthermore, the questionability and changing of long-held customs is at best a minor theme in the story (and is a questionable theme at that in that the story ends with the custom being perpetuated). I'm not sure what the short story has to do with the custom of removing hats indoors, especially since the short story referenced seems to reinforce the idea of perpetuating customs.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I'm a senior in college studying English education, and literature is a huge part of my degree program. I've read and discussed The Lottery a few times now for both advanced English classes in high school and now in a couple of my literature classes in college. I think that it's perfectly fine for people to remove hats indoors, but I probably won't be offended if they don't. Most of the time I wouldn't even notice, even in TS restaurants. I pretty much agree with you on the last part of your post--but the comparison is way off here.
 
Totally agree...we're old school brought up... Disney from our first trip in 1977 to present has changed considerably in mannerisms and etiquette ... And not for the good....



Totally agree. I was also brought up "old school."

I perfectly understand, and am sympathic for anyone who has a medical issue and wants to wear their hat but otherwise hats should not be worn at the table.
 
:offtopic: but...

I don't really care that much about the hat issue--it's never been an issue for me--but I do have an issue with the comparison between The Lottery and the custom of removing a hat in public. The Lottery is a fictional short story--no real American customs behind it. Furthermore, the questionability and changing of long-held customs is at best a minor theme in the story (and is a questionable theme at that in that the story ends with the custom being perpetuated). I'm not sure what the short story has to do with the custom of removing hats indoors, especially since the short story referenced seems to reinforce the idea of perpetuating customs.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I'm a senior in college studying English education, and literature is a huge part of my degree program. I've read and discussed The Lottery a few times now for both advanced English classes in high school and now in a couple of my literature classes in college. I think that it's perfectly fine for people to remove hats indoors, but I probably won't be offended if they don't. Most of the time I wouldn't even notice, even in TS restaurants. I pretty much agree with you on the last part of your post--but the comparison is way off here.

Dear English major-

You are way off base here. The story is all about perpetuating a custom or tradition, if you prefer, when no one in the town even knows why they still do it or why they ever did. That is the theme of the story. That relates specifically to this topic because some in this thread are advocating the perpetuation of the custom of not wearing hats indoors when that is a useless and outdated concept that needs to go the way of the dodo bird. Again, who cares? I don't even own a hat but if I see one in a restaurant I am not going to scream for the manager to have the offending party removed.
 
Dear English major-

You are way off base here. The story is all about perpetuating a custom or tradition, if you prefer, when no one in the town even knows why they still do it or why they ever did. That is the theme of the story. That relates specifically to this topic because some in this thread are advocating the perpetuation of the custom of not wearing hats indoors when that is a useless and outdated concept that needs to go the way of the dodo bird. Again, who cares? I don't even own a hat but if I see one in a restaurant I am not going to scream for the manager to have the offending party removed.

But that's only a small factor in the story. They do know why they do it--because in their town it was believed that stoning someone to death would ensure a plentiful harvest. Yes, at the beginning of the story, there is some amount of questioning, but that's completely overturned as soon as the lottery actually starts. The critical themes of the story are the family unit in extreme situations (such as when Tessie's child is given pebbles to help participate in the stoning) and the concept of collective/mob mentality over common sense or morals (such as in the case of Tessie's friend, who is shown chatting with Tessie at the beginning of the story, but joining the mob in stoning her when the mob takes over).

Literature, however, is subjective: your analysis of the story as being about the need to be willing to change customs is also a valid look at the story. Personally, I don't believe that it is a primary theme, or even an important theme, simply because at the end of the story the mob has refused to act to change the custom--I don't think the small amount of questioning at the beginning outweighs the stoning at the end (or the implication through the children's participation in the stoning that the stonings will continue in the future). Far more important in my perception of the story is the theme of mob mentality outweighing morals, friendship, or family.

Because literature is subjective, I think we need to agree to disagree, and get back to the topic at hand. I know my OP was more definitive than I usually try to be when sharing my analysis of literature and not allowing for other interpretations, and I apologize for that. Personally, I don't think The Lottery relates to the discussion on here, but I respect the fact that you do, and that's okay :)
 
I know that when I see a man sitting through dinner, a church service (on the occasion I attend one), or the National Anthem with a hat on I think: selfish.

Selfish, because there is a person who wants the benefits of social interaction and can't be bothered to perform even the most simple and painless act of concession to that societies norms.

It would be one thing if a person argued on some sort of moral grounds. I respect a person who sits through the Star Spangled Banner out protest for some perceived injustice. I respect a person who refuses to shake hands because they have a religious proscription of that act. Even if I don't hold those same views their actions are taken in support of something.

But someone who refuses a simple act of courtesy because they shouldn't have to bother? Just selfish, or lazy, maybe both. That's how I perceive them, and I fully accept that they may be neither of those things, but in the absence of any other information that's how I see it.
 
Did you not ever read The Lottery by Shirley Jackson where it was the town custom to atone someone to death once a year?

Customs change and thank God for that. This country has had some deplorable customs. I won't get into politics lest I infuriate someone, but let's just say that now I can get married and previously it was customarily understood that I could not. Thank God that things change.

As for this silly hat issue, unless the hat has a speaker in it that is blaring music at 400,000 decimals, or flashing, rotating lights, or it shoots bullets, then honestly, who the heck cares? Let people do what they want. It is not altering your life in any possible way. If the aesthetic is so offensive to you that it makes you lose your appetite, don't look at it. Very simple solution. Aren't you there to enjoy your wife, husband, partner, family anyway? So then do so and don't let a baseball cap bother you. Life is too short and there are more important things to worry about.

Exactly. It's an (over) century old practice when hats weren't really worn as fashion for men.

Here's a perfect example. In Japan, it's proper etiquette to remove your shoes in a residence or restaurant. Same origins as why the removal of hats had began.

However, we had more European figures come to the states than we did Japanese, so THEIR custom came over here and found it's way as 'etiquette'.

There's plenty of things we do that are poor etiquette in other countries. This hat issue is a century old custom established in another society that made it's way here. Shoes and sneakers are even worse than hats. You're absolutely bringing in more filth than a hat and you may even be bringing in smashed insect or animal feces. But, that's okay here in America. Hats...European society says nooooo, so lets take them off and leave our shoes on.

It's simply an illogical reasoned form of etiquette today, that's upheld just because it's become the 'normal' thing to do. But, people will still push the issue because society tells them what proper etiquette is and they abide, like sheep in a herd.

Sadly, I was forced to take etiquette classes because of the amount of snobby banquets and event dinners I've had to attend because of my parents.

It amazes me at how hats are judged, however in the world of dining etiquette, 90% of you all do things deemed worse than attire, actual poor actions.

  • How many of you anti-hat fans have blown (even lightly) on hot food or coffee? I see men and women do it all the time. To their own portions and on their child's hot food. Proper etiquette suggests requesting ice or simply waiting. To blow on food looks like you're a glutton and simply cannot wait for it to cool down, you must expedite the process and blow your wind around the table (nobody's stays confined to their plate).
  • Half bites? You're never supposed to butter a role and continuously take bites from it. Nor are you ever supposed to leave food on a fork or spoon after taking a bite, for any reason according to any etiquette school or class.
  • Here's an extremely common one. When you're finished with your meal, how many of you think you're helping your server or signaling that you're finished by moving the plate by either pushing it aside or away from you? One of the absolute worst actions you can do, based off of 'proper' dining etiquette. Announcing (by pushing your finished plate) that you're finished is down right rude.

However, most of those things are overlooked by those who THINK they practice proper dining etiquette by judging the socially known aspects such as slurping (understandable), wearing hats (blows my mind since they're now mostly used by men as 'fashion' or sportsmanship.) and picking your teeth.

Wear your hats! :firefight:artist::wizard::santa:pirate::dancer:


*Disclaimer: Don't be an idiot. I'm applying this to general buildings and casual dining. Not upscale dining, church, schools, someone's direct place of business where you're interacting with the host.
 
{FLAME PROOF SUIT IN PLACE}
4) After all, it would be nice to correct
. . . people wearing hats in eateries
. . . people frequently dressing and eating like slobs
. . . people showing a lack of respect in waiting lines, or in line cutting
. . . people pushing and shoving in trying to view parades, even those already waiting in place
. . . people striking you in the back of your heels with strollers and ECVs
. . . people not controlling their kids and letting them misbehave at parks or meals
{FLAME PROOF SUIT BACK IN THE DRAWER}

That's all that made your list? LOL

Yes general etiquette seems to have fallen by the wayside lately. And whenever it's brought up, I'm told, "You're so old fashioned" or something like that. If you take away all etiquette because people think it's "old fashioned" or because it's "It's simply an illogical reasoned form of etiquette today, that's upheld just because it's become the 'normal' thing to do" what are you left with?

A bunch of slurping, teeth picking, open mouth chewing, non door holding, don't bother to say thank you 'ing' group of people LOL.
 
That's all that made your list? LOL

Yes general etiquette seems to have fallen by the wayside lately. And whenever it's brought up, I'm told, "You're so old fashioned" or something like that. If you take away all etiquette because people think it's "old fashioned" or because it's "It's simply an illogical reasoned form of etiquette today, that's upheld just because it's become the 'normal' thing to do" what are you left with?

A bunch of slurping, teeth picking, open mouth chewing, non door holding, don't bother to say thank you 'ing' group of people LOL.

I ignore most people's poor etiquette, but when I hold a door and they don't say anything or if they don't hold a door, ohhhh they know how I feel real fast.
 
I ignore most people's poor etiquette, but when I hold a door and they don't say anything or if they don't hold a door, ohhhh they know how I feel real fast.

Same with me...although, a couple of months ago I held the door open for someone and they didn't thank me. I said "YOUR WELCOME!" The guy turned around and apologized to me over and over again. He was just zoned out and he felt horrible. I felt even worse. :blush: Since then, I try to give them the benefit of the doubt.
 



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