Harry Potter Complete Book Spoiler Thread

[Daxx]

I don't think the scar is the horcrux. In Goblet of Fire LV told the Death Eaters what happened that night and he said he was trying to kill Harry and the curse rebounded onto himself. He said he had "no body, and every spell that might have helped me required the use of a wand."

So, no horcrux spell.

Very interesting!!!! Thanks for pointing that out ... more food for thought!

 

[themelbob1190]

My friend just emailed me this. She found it on mugglenet.

"In St. Mungo’s, when they are going to visit Mr. Weasley- 'They climbed a flight of stairs and entered the "Creature-Induced Injuries" corridor, where the second door on the right bore the words 'DANGEROUS' DAI LLEWELLYN WARD: SERIOUS BITES.' If you put these words on a sign, they would read:

Creature-Induced Injuries
Dangerous
Dai Llewellyn Ward
Serious Bites

Take the first word of each of these and what do you get get? Creature Dangerous Dai Serious? No - Kreacher dangerous, Die Sirius...

Coincidental??? No, I do not think so. JKR does not have things like that by accident in her book.

Not exactly about the 6th or 7th books, but I still found it interesting!

 

[Imzadi]

Where is DUMBLEDORE'S WAND?

ARRRRGH! I just finished the book last nite. (Haven't finished this thread yet.)
I too, am disappointed in this book. On the one hand, I'm one of those still hoping Dumbledore is not really dead. I knew it may happen, but I thought in book 7. It was strangely, sparsely written (like an aside as someone else mentioned) compared to when Sirius died. Not as emotional. Like others, I have theories. LOL.

My first thought when it happened was from:
In OotP, pg. 810 (US hardcover):

Harry [] bellowed "Crucio!"
Bellatrix screamed. The spell knocked her off her feet...
"Never used an Unforgivable Curse before, have you, boy? ... You need to mean them, Potter! You need to really want to cause pain -- to enjoy it --"

Perhaps Snape didn't do Avada Kedavra in such a way as to mean to kill DD, just knock him up in the air & make it look that way. One of the last things DD told Malfoy is: (Pg. 592 US edition)

"He cannot kill you if you are already dead... we can hide you more completely than you can possibly imagine...nobody would be surprised you had died in your attempt to kill me -- forgive me, but Lord Voldemort probably expects it. Nor would the Death Eaters be surprised that we had captured and killed your mother -- it is what they would do themselves, after all."

Wouldn't Voldemort & the DE unquestioningly expect Snape did kill DD if 5 people loyal to LV witnessed it? And everyone in the Order & at Hogwarts believed it too, ESPECIALLY if Harry witnessed it? And everyone behaved as such, because they did believe it. That would account for the very real grief of Hagrid & Fawkes, who could not fake their grief. That would certainly "hide someone more completely than you can possibly imagine."

Also, Snape wouldn't let Harry use Unforgivable Curses later, when he might learn to "enjoy it" while in a revenge state. Or feel regret later for having killed someone, & DD turned out to be alive.


If DD IS really dead, it should be noted, Dumbledore sacrificed his life, not only for Malfoy, but for Harry. Whe he heard the DE coming up the stairs he could just as easily told Harry to run, or not interfere under the Invisibility cloak, no matter what Harry saw. He had already bound Harry to a vow to obey his orders to the letter. He also could have used shield charms or spells to protect both him & Harry if he still had his wand, as weak as he was, until others showed up to help. Instead DD made the choice to use a Freezing Charm, that caused Malfoy to be able to disarm him. He didn't know who was coming up the stairs. It could have been a DE who decided to kill him right away, regardless of LV order for Malfoy to do it.

DD makes a big thing about CHOICES, both in CoS; on pg. 262, that Harry's mother made a choice to die rather than step aside; & in regards to Harry knowing he has a choice regarding the prophecy.

Also, it is stated very clearly on pg. 585 (HC):

Malfoy: "You don't know what I've done!"

Dumbledore: "Oh yes, I do. You almost killed Katie Bell & Ronald Weasley. You have been trying, with increasing desperation to kill ME all year. Forgive me Draco, but they have been feeble attempts... So feeble, to be honest, that I wonder whether your heart is really in it."

Dumbeldore DID know what Malfoy was up to & there was a likelihood he (hopefully) might fail. Add to this, Snape's Unbreakable Vow to protect Malfoy AND to carry out the mission if Malfoy was unable to.

Dumbledore & Snape must have discussed the possibility before hand that Snape must kill him, (or pretend to) in order to protect Malfoy & release Snape from the Unbreakable Vow. I would think once it's "done", the vow is broken. It would be DD's choice to plead for Snape kill him to save 3 people as previously discussed.

DD said repeatedly to Harry, "Because I am much older, much cleverer & less valuable" (than Harry.) He knew the time was coming to shift power to Harry.

I think Snape had also made an Unbreakable Vow with Dumbledore all those years ago, after he told LV about the prophecy. That it was to Protect the unborn child at all costs from Voldemort. It bound Snape to DD, which is why he knew he could trust him. For Snape to vow to protect James Potter's son, who he hated above others, (save Sirius,) or die breaking that vow, would prove his disclosure about the prophecy "To be the greatest regret of his life & the reason that he returned--"

It would also account for why Snape went off on Harry calling him a coward when he vowed his own life for protecting him - and for Harry trying to use his own magic on him. Already, Snape's own magic, of the Unbreakable Vow, is being used "against himself" in regard to Harry.

Add to this, on pg. 598,

Terror tore at Harry's heart... He had to get to Dumbledore and he had to catch Snape...Somehow the two things were linked... He could reverse what happened if he had them both together...

There was a time when Snape was out of Harry's eye sight during the chase, when Snape had already gotten out of the castle front doors. "Snape had an immense head start." Even with the shortcut that Harry took, what if Snape had time to tell Malfoy to run up ahead, he'd catch up (so Malfoy wouldn't see) & he ran over to Dumbledore, retrieved the wand & using it, or being the one who made the Unforgivable Curse, was able to reverse it somehow. Out of all the people at Hogwarts, having the most knowledge of Dark Arts, Snape would be the one who'd know how to do this!

Dumbledore no longer had his wand. Is a wizard still able to do magic without his wand in hand? It had gone over the ramparts of the tower. But it was not mentioned that it ever was recovered. Isn't DD's wand a very valuable item to look for?

A different theory I have is the very strong connection between phoenixes & Dumbledore. The order is even NAMED the Order of the Phoenix. What if, in a similar fashion to Slytherin, LV & snakes and that a snake could be used as a horcrux for LV, what if Dumbledore was able to use Fawkes as a house for part of his soul, through Love? Or is DD an animagus?

In an interview AFTER the release of HBP, (MickeyMonstersMom pointed out in post #210): http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/newsid_4690000/newsid_4690800/4690885.stm

Reporter: Who did Fawkes previously belong to and will he play a vital role in the next book?

JK Rowling: I am not going to answer about the role in the next books, which probably gives you a big clue, and he has never been owned by anyone but Dumbledore. You will notice that when Harry goes back in the Pensieve... and has previously seen the study with a different headmaster, he saw it with Dippet and Fawkes was not there then. Fawkes is Dumbledore's possession, not a Hogwarts possession.

I, too noted that Harry thought he saw a phoenix fly out of the flames during the funeral. Maybe Dumbledore has a "Phoenix" spirit somehow by being an animagus, that was released from his body during the burning. Or maybe Fawkes was inside the purple velvet instead of DD?

But, it could also just be Fawkes showing up (way in the sky, though the smoke) one last time to make sure his master had a proper send off, in the same way the Centaurs flew their arrows & the Mermish showed up. Also, we don't know what details JKR added to throw us off.

Both Harry's & LV's wands are made from tail feathers of FAWKES. That may come into play again in Book 7, especially if Fawkes plays some major part in choosing sides.

On the other hand, in that same interview above, JKR makes several statements which sadly make me believe DD is unfortunately, indeed dead.

Here she gives her reasoning about killing off Sirius. That same reasoning would hold true for Dumbledore:

Reporter: Why did you have to kill Sirius when it was the best thing that happened to Harry for years?
JK Rowling: We are back to me being a murderer, aren't we? People have asked me this a lot. I have been repeatedly told Sirius was my favourite character, why did he have to die?... I think you will realise why he had to go in terms of plot when you read the seventh book. It wasn't arbitrary although part of the answer is the one I have given before. It is more satisfying I think for the reader if the hero has to go on alone and to give him too much support makes his job too easy, sorry.

(Earlier in the interview):
JK Rowling: Harry is older now so he has more comprehension of what loss means, very young people are sometimes I think anaesthetised, it is not to say it is not extremely painful but they perhaps receive more comfort because of their youth. Harry is very isolated now.

Another tv interview, JKR stated she didn't want to confuse kids into believing people can come back after they have died.

So while I WISH Dumbledore may still be alive, it seems unlikely.

He may return Obe Wan style or though the portrait, but I think the people in the portraits have a limit. Perhaps, DD was "asleep" in his portrait because they had to wait for the funeral to occur, before he could "wake up." Otherwise, as soon as people get killed, their relatives could just run right away & talk to the portraits, as though they aren't gone. This would be very confusing for relatives & not help them get that the people are actually gone. Also, the Dumbledore in the portrait may only be able to help by giving out only the knowledge & wisdom they acquired in the PAST, while they were alive. DD may be limited in the aid & advice he's able to help Harry with in the upcoming events because he's not "alive" to help reason out present situations.

However, there is reference to DD plucking out various memories to place in the pensieve - and maybe he was placing them in bottles for Harry to use later in helping him find the horcruxes?

 

[Imzadi]

Whew! Finally finished reading this whole thread!

Wow! I just read the http://www.dumbledoreisnotdead.com/ site. It concurs with a lot of my theories on Dumbledore.

One thing that occurred to me after reading his theories on Fawkes, that he didn't mention, was how Fawkes disappears after the lament. Did Fawkes ferry DD away to a secret hiding place after healing him? No one sees DD's body once it's wrapped in the purple velvet.

An interesting thing I noted, the site says the title of the book, "Harry Potter & the Half-Blood Prince, is essentially really titled: "Harry Potter & SNAPE"! Snape is the biggest controversay in this thread.

Snape offers his right arm in order to perform the unbreakable vow. Next hing we know, Dumbledore shows up with a 'dead' right arm that never heals. We are talking about a world where Polyjuice (?) can be made. And we have a situation with one of the best wizards and a great potion master.

I also am not at all happy with the explanation that Dumbledore gave regarding the injury to his arm. Very anti-climatic for something that was given such a high profile throughout the book.

Sorry this theory about the Polyjuice doesn't hold up. Dumbledore already has the arm injury when the two sisters show up. Snape talks about it BEFORE making the unbreakable vow.

Pg.31 US hardcover:

"I am pleased to say, however, that Dumbledore is growing old. The duel with the Dark Lord last month shook him. He has sustained a serious injury because his reactions are slower than they once were."

DD got the injury as he said while getting the horcrux. Snape lied to the sisters that it happened during DD's duel with LV to make LV seem stronger & to hide the fact DD is searching for horcruxes.

Now going back to read the other interviews on JKR listed here.

 

[MickeyMonstersMom]

Originally Posted by Stitch 03
Snape offers his right arm in order to perform the unbreakable vow. Next thing we know, Dumbledore shows up with a 'dead' right arm that never heals.

I posted this on another mb but no one responded, so maybe it's not as provoking as I'd thought - I'm curious about the Mary Grandpre images that appeared a few weeks before the release of HBP. One showed two hands clasped in what we now know is an Unbreakable Vow, with one of the hands looking old and withered - at the time speculation was that the hands belonged to Harry (young) and Dumbledore (old). However, what if the withered hand was indeed Dumbledore's injured hand, which would imply an Unbreakable Vow taken after Dumbledore's recovery of the ring. If that indeed took place, my money's on Snape - but without any commitment on my part as to exactly what was being sworn. Since remembering the image, I cannot find it on the web anywhere to confirm or refute my suspicion, though, so it just lurks back there in my mind. Hmmm... thoughts?

 

[RC Fan]

Hello!

I have just read the whole thread and have seen some very interesting theories. I don't have any additional theories to add, just my thoughts after reading this thread.


I am behind the rest of you in that I just started reading the series about two and a half weeks ago. I finished HBP on this past Sunday night. I had previously seen all three movies, and so decided I HAD to read the books.

I have seen quite a few of you comment about how you were disappointed in Harry's attitude in OoTP. I feel his attitude is very understandable given his past experiences. While I don't agree with some of his thoughts, I too felt his anger about being kept in the dark, about his mistreatment by the Dursley's, and about his very tangible feelings of being totally alone.

I was not surprised by Dumbledore's death. I certainly wish it didn't happen, but I guess I can deal with it. What I won't be able to deal with, however, will be if JKR allows Harry to die in book 7. I will be very angry if that is the case. As others have said, If Harry dies, I think his death will seriously affect the 'readability' of the series. As such, I have added a line to my signature as a plea!

Also, I wanted to add that I watched PoA last night for the first time since I had read the books. I really enjoyed the movie, but holy cow they leave a lot out! Can't wait to see GoF!

 

[Figment22]

Many, many interesting points you make here.

Also, Snape wouldn't let Harry use Unforgivable Curses later, when he might learn to "enjoy it" while in a revenge state. Or feel regret later for having killed someone, & DD turned out to be alive.

I think Snape had also made an Unbreakable Vow with Dumbledore all those years ago, after he told LV about the prophecy. That it was to Protect the unborn child at all costs from Voldemort. It bound Snape to DD, which is why he knew he could trust him.

I, and others upthread I believe, have mentioned that Snape must have made an Unbreakable Vow with Dumbledore many years prior. Why else would Dumbledore trust Snape so completely? Snape's refusal to allow Harry to use one of the Unforgivable Curses is certainly one manifestation of his intent to protect him.

A different theory I have is the very strong connection between phoenixes & Dumbledore. The order is even NAMED the Order of the Phoenix. What if, in a similar fashion to Slytherin, LV & snakes and that a snake could be used as a horcrux for LV, what if Dumbledore was able to use Fawkes as a house for part of his soul, through Love? Or is DD an animagus?

Very interesting theory. Certainly it has been speculated that DD is an animagus by many.

On the other hand, in that same interview above, JKR makes several statements which sadly make me believe DD is unfortunately, indeed dead.

I'm in the Dumbledore IS dead camp but some of the theories that he is still alive do make sense. One of my main reasons for feeling he was, indeed, dead was the release of the body bind/freezing charm on Harry. But...I have gone back and begun to re-read all five of the previous books and I found something interesting and, I believe, pertinent in Sorcerer's Stone. When Hagrid comes to the island to rescue Harry from the Dursley's and begins to tell Harry some of the story of Voldemort and how Harry got the scar, he says something interesting on page 57 of the US edition:

Some say he's still out there, bidin' his time, like, but I don' believe it. People who was on his side came back ter ours. Some of 'em came outta kinda trances. Don' reckon they could've done if he was comin' back.

It would seem to me that there is some precedent for a spell being released even if the caster is not truly dead. Of course, some of these spells could have been cast by other death eaters and not necessarily by Voldemort himself which would shoot this theory in the foot but I still think there's something there.

Also, the Dumbledore in the portrait may only be able to help by giving out only the knowledge & wisdom they acquired in the PAST, while they were alive. DD may be limited in the aid & advice he's able to help Harry with in the upcoming events because he's not "alive" to help reason out present situations.

I'm not sure I totally agree with this. Those former headmasters who also have portraits in other locations in the wizarding world have proven effective in the past. My guess would be that DD will have another portrait in some other very important location that may be of future assistance to Harry and/or other members of the Order.

 

[ekmdisney]

Remember that DD did not want to have himself taken of the chocolate frog cards. I think that is how he will be communicating with the members of the order.

 

[Imzadi]

I posted this on another mb but no one responded, so maybe it's not as provoking as I'd thought - I'm curious about the Mary Grandpre images that appeared a few weeks before the release of HBP. One showed two hands clasped in what we now know is an Unbreakable Vow, with one of the hands looking old and withered - at the time speculation was that the hands belonged to Harry (young) and Dumbledore (old). However, what if the withered hand was indeed Dumbledore's injured hand, which would imply an Unbreakable Vow taken after Dumbledore's recovery of the ring. If that indeed took place, my money's on Snape - but without any commitment on my part as to exactly what was being sworn. Since remembering the image, I cannot find it on the web anywhere to confirm or refute my suspicion, though, so it just lurks back there in my mind. Hmmm... thoughts?

According to the dumbledoreisnotdead.com site the exact quotes I had picked out earlier:

"He cannot kill you if you are already dead... we can hide you more completely than you can possibly imagine...nobody would be surprised you had died in your attempt to kill me -- forgive me, but Lord Voldemort probably expects it. Nor would the Death Eaters be surprised that we had captured and killed your mother -- it is what they would do themselves, after all."

do NOT appear in the UK version. The website speculated whether JKR editted out that text as being too obvious a clue, in light of where it landed in the scene, but maybe it accidently got left in the US version.

If that is a possibility, maybe the drawing you saw by Mary Grandpre also was editted away. She must have spent a long time drawing it, so it's an important element, but then "poof" it can no longer be found?
Speculation would be that it was that the hands of Harry, naturally as he is the hero. But, as pointed out by that website again, the title of this book is about Harry & SNAPE.

Knowing he is now the HBP, we half to go back & re-read everything written about him in THIS book in particular, for any clues or hidden revelations that would normally be dismissed. Perhaps JKR, again thought the clue in the picture too obvious. She always maintained that the first draft she wrote of CoS had too much info that would give away what happens in this book and had to be editted out. Perhaps she was still tweaking stuff like that out, up until final publication, publicity & release of the book. It would be interesting to see if anyone can still find that image on "official" HP sites (vs. someone who illegally copied it onto their site without permission & therefore doesn't know it's supposed to be removed, if indeed it is.)

I'm not sure I totally agree with this. Those former headmasters who also have portraits in other locations in the wizarding world have proven effective in the past. My guess would be that DD will have another portrait in some other very important location that may be of future assistance to Harry and/or other members of the Order.

That site also asked the question "Why can't the portrait of DD just be a plain portrait that has nothing to do with a headmaster's death? Surely DD can hang any pictures/portraits he wants on the walls. It's HIS office. Not ALL of them have to be of dead headmasters, or headmasters at all. Maybe the portrait was set to appear on a "timer" spell or DD zapped it there before he went into hiding.

I also wonder how many of us who believe that DD may possibly be alive had read the version with the added/uneditted text, vs. those who read the UK (& other countries?) version without the text. And how many in UK believed DD is alive even without reading that text? Is there a direct correlation to which camp one is in: alive - not alive.

 

[Ladyhawke]

Hi! I'm a total newbie. Been wanting a place to discuss the new Harry Potter book. I found this thread & have been reading it through. Some very interesting theories people have come up with.

 

[Figment22]

Hi! I'm a total newbie. Been wanting a place to discuss the new Harry Potter book. I found this thread & have been reading it through. Some very interesting theories people have come up with.

Welcome to the DIS!

 

[ohanafamily]

Hi! I'm a total newbie. Been wanting a place to discuss the new Harry Potter book. I found this thread & have been reading it through. Some very interesting theories people have come up with.

Yes, Welcome... Hey how does this sound for a wild idea... The Internet being a HORCRUX... I can see it now... HP waves his wand and.....*poof* bye bye Dis...
(LOL)

 

[SueM in MN]

If that is a possibility, maybe the drawing you saw by Mary Grandpre also was editted away. She must have spent a long time drawing it, so it's an important element, but then "poof" it can no longer be found?
Speculation would be that it was that the hands of Harry, naturally as he is the hero. But, as pointed out by that website again, the title of this book is about Harry & SNAPE.
Knowing he is now the HBP, we half to go back & re-read everything written about him in THIS book in particular, for any clues or hidden revelations that would normally be d
ismissed. Perhaps JKR, again thought the clue in the picture too obvious. She always maintained that the first draft she wrote of CoS had too much info that would give away what happens in this book and had to be editted out. Perhaps she was still tweaking stuff like that out, up until final publication, publicity & release of the book. It would be interesting to see if anyone can still find that image on "official" HP sites (vs. someone who illegally copied it onto their site without permission & therefore doesn't know it's supposed to be removed, if indeed it is.)

That drawing is not by Mary GrandPre. It is in the inside part of the dustcover for the UK children's edition.
Here's a link to a Mugglenet page that has a link to the picture of the full dustcover.

There were very few pictures to start with that showed the full dust cover; most just show the parts that are on view when the book is closed, so that's probably why you can't find pictures of it now.

IMHO, it looks like Snape's and Narcissa's hands.
I think if Snape and DD had made an unbreakable vow, therre would be more clues of it.
I'm running out of battery power on my laptop, so can't type any more right now.

 

[adamak]

Just finished reading the book. And interesting thread here. Couldn't read all 49 pages though. My theory is that HP is the last horcurxes, and he must 'destroy' himself to kill LV. However, I don't think HP will die. I think he'll lose his magic power and become a regular muggle, and end up being a regular citizen. It's very sad, but it just must be done. Maybe he'll never meet his high school friends again until the 25th year reunion, like normal people.

I just don't see how JKR can wrap everything in the last book. So many questions, so many other threads. What about Malfoy and Snape's relationship. Neville (I feel like there is more); Sirius and that mirror? HP's parents; Ron & Hermione; Percy. And what about Cho? Just fall off the map?

I can't wait till the 7th. I also hope it'll not come for a while. I can't bear the end.

 

[Daxx]

I just don't see how JKR can wrap everything in the last book. So many questions, so many other threads. What about Malfoy and Snape's relationship. Neville (I feel like there is more); Sirius and that mirror? HP's parents; Ron & Hermione; Percy. And what about Cho? Just fall off the map?

I can't wait till the 7th. I also hope it'll not come for a while. I can't bear the end.

I know what you mean about all the unanswered questions. I, too, do not know how she'll wrap it all up, either. I thought there would be more "tidbits" in this book w/regard to James, Lily, etc. and their past history. I wonder if the final book will be super, super thick?!!?

Yes, book 7 will certainly be bittersweet, won't it?! The excitement to know "the rest of the story" and the fact of knowing there won't be any more HP books to look forward to.

For SueM in MN, would you please post the link to the inner dust jacket art -- the link you posted gave a google list for mugglenet stuff and I couldn't find the art you were talking about. I am very curious!! Much appreciated!

 

[pdchris]

I wonder if the final book will be super, super thick?!!?

I hope so. Oh, say, about 1500 pages would do nicely.

 

[Daxx]

about 1500 pages would do nicely.

At the very least, 1500 pages!!!

 

[ohanafamily]

Hey all, I am re-listening to the books on tape, and I have a question that maybe one of you know the answer to...


In book2 (COS) At the start of Chapter 10, Lockhart makes HP act out as he performs the Hormonculous charm on the Wagga Wagga Werewolf... Why can't that be performed on Lupin?????

 

[Imzadi]

In book2 (COS) At the start of Chapter 10, Lockhart makes HP act out as he performs the Hormonculous charm on the Wagga Wagga Werewolf... Why can't that be performed on Lupin?????

In Book 6, after Ron's brother (can't remember his name,) was bitten, Lupin said that werewolf bites & symptoms are different with each individual. Maybe it doesn't have any effect on Lupin?

SueM in MN, I, too, would love to see that dustcover.

As for the book length, JKR in interviews said she thinks the book will be shorter than GoF. Of course, it still isn't written yet.

 

[BoyLovesBuzz]

I agree with the speculation of the length on book 7. One thing that no one has mentioned, at least I haven't seen it, is that in book 7, Harry must learn how to kill, or at least perform the Crucio. Right now he is quite feeble in a true fight. That has to change, and I think since it is such a darkening of Harry's heart, that it will have to take a while accomplish.

And just for record, I am in the DD is not dead camp. My main reason is the result of the Avada Kedavra on every other victim in the entire series was that the person fell in a heep. Dead before the hit the ground. Yet DD was thrown up over a 6 foot wall, clearly the Levicorpus spell. Also when Harry was kneeling by DD, there was blood coming from his month. No other victim of the killing curse had outward injuries. This could have easily been Snape’s own Sectumsempra spell. Recall Harry used it on Draco and he bleed profusely. Anyway, I wouldn't bet money he is still alive, but there is definitely circumstantial evidence to suggest he may be.