Going to the poor house:2015 Inusrance premiums

[OceanAnnie]

Touchy subject. That "free" BC, contributed to my insurance rates going up and losing our prescription coverage. We are paying for it. It isn't free. Nothing is free.

 

[Gracie09]

Give me a break! This is a war on dependence and total reliance on government. All we heard for years is that is if women get free birth control, then there wouldn't be all these unwanted children or abortions. Now that Obama Care has provided that, you are saying that these women shouldn't have to pay for gas to pick up their FREE condoms or FREE birth control pills. Or the government should give them a FREE car and a paid day off work to pick up their prescriptions. There is always another excuse.

If you want to be indignant about something how about that Medicaid covers Viagra even in states where it doesn't cover birth control. That is to a tune of 100-200 million a year whereas providing free birth control actually saves money because it prevents pregnancies. But hey I guess giving an old man an erection is worth it

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I enjoyed great health care coverage through my employer for many years. It was one of the big reasons I put up with a horrendous commute and other inconveniences of the job. About a decade ago I went through maximum treatment for cancer that lasted almost a year - surgery, chemo, radiation, etc., and the only thing I paid OOP were for office visit copays. One day I walked out of a pharmacy with $32,000 worth of injections and all I paid was $20 OOP. I had virtually no residual bills to speak of when my treatment was over. I always felt fortunate to have such good medical coverage, but it was something I worked hard for as well..

So all was good until several years back when the cost of my (same) plan shot up astronomically. It rose 600% the first year and another 200% the next. Additionally, they wanted us to change our primary care team. Fortunately we had my DH's insurance we could switch over to, but costs have risen with it, also, and we now have a ton of OOP medical expenses, too. And I mean, they charge for everything - things which used to be included in costs, like leg braces and such, now we get bills from outside companies for those. (Frustrating, when it's given in the ER and the next day your own doctor tells you not to use it.) Over the past year and a half, we happened to have several surgeries in our household, and we were absolutely swarmed with medical bills so many, I could barely keep them straight! I had a $600+ pathology bill for something I was told was going to be part of the surgical cost, then I spent hours on the phone trying to rectify it, with no resolution, so I finally resolved to just pay it. Then one day I'm talking to someone on the phone from BCBS about something else and I mentioned it and she was like, "Oh, you shouldn't have to pay for that, hold on, I'll fix it" and she did! It makes one wonder does anyone really know what's going on behind the scenes here?

I do have a HSA at work to use for medical expenses, but they don't make it easy to use (no card to swipe; still have to send in itemized, detailed expenses), and if you don't use the money, you lose it. I also do take advantage of putting money away for health care expenses in retirement so it tightens my pocketbook now, but at least later, it might help alleviate what I anticipate will be one of our biggest expenses in retirement.

I totally agree with the pp who says when people are young and healthy, their costs are often "affordable". It's when you age or start having health issues that costs begin to rise. (And people with chronic illnesses already know this, young or old.)

I also just want to add to the thoughts on end of life care, that it's not only that, IMO. Chronic disease adds a lot, too. I'll use heart failure as an example. Not too many years ago, life expectancy for someone diagnosed with heart failure was about five years on average. That's changed now, and people are living much longer with a diagnosis of heart failure. HOWEVER, costs for their care have obviously risen, as well. It''s a real challenge for hospitals because many of these patients are in and out of the hospital for diuresis and med adjustments, procedures, etc. Good home care and "rule following" is essential, and admittedly, it's a huge challenge for patients to comply with all the rules they must follow in order to stay healthy - namely, following a low salt diet, restricting fluids, taking all meds as prescribed, and followoing up with all appointments, etc. Yet despite that, hospitals are now FINED huge amounts if a heart failure patient is readmitted within 30 days of discharge. This leaves a huge problem of how to manage these patients - and yes, it costs a lot. There are so many issues just like this as well. So it's not just end of life care. It's chronic care. And there's no question, it's been an issue for at least three or four decades that we've known, that the largest population using health care resouces are the elderly. Not a value judgement there, just a fact. Looking at costs, this is where many are spent.

 

[eliza61]

That's what I've been thinking.

I don't think free birth control is the huge issue for healthcare that many try to make it.

Making this a huge women's issue doesn't make sense. We all have A LOT of issues with healthcare. Free birth control IMO isn't one of them when there are and have been options from the start.

This war on women thing is so old and tiresome.

LOL. you have a great point. bc is not a huge issue in the healthcare issue.

I don't buy it.

People have to eat. They go to grocery stores, Wal-mart has clinics & pharmacies. That's just one example. People are more mobile than that , if they aren't they find a way to eat. They can find a way to pick up BC.

So, I'm just going on my little corner of the world.
Camden NJ which is just about the poorest county in the North.
50% of the residents are below poverty level and 76% are on federal assistance.

So in Camden there are not major supermarkets, no walmarts, no CVS's. most are bodegas and strip malls. sure you are mobile so you (collective you) simply assume they can get in there car and find a way to get to the walmart.
Now, the people that we service in my church are 99.9% single moms, not a one owns a car, all have 2-3 kids. Most are working minimum or below minimum wage jobs (yes, cleaning companies, landscapers and kitchens pay below minimum).
So after 8 hours, work, pick kids up, go to the local bodega if they have to and then back home.
no, not as easy as you make it.

So like every thing else, human nature gravitates to what's easy. you make whatever you are offering easily available and the "thing" gets wide spread use. You make what you are offering hard to obtain.....well you get totally different result.

Now most of the ladies do have "personal" responsibility, they are NOT laying around just having babies with 10 different men. they are working hard, with dreams but no hope. they don't have the luxury of making plans for a month or a week ahead. they are surviving for that DAY. so yes, at times their health is at the bottom of the list.
Once again, guys. this is just the my one area.

 

[eliza61]

Touchy subject. That "free" BC, contributed to my insurance rates going up and losing our prescription coverage. We are paying for it. It isn't free. Nothing is free.

Absolutely. so what you have to do is "hedge" your dollars.
what's more costly.
free birth control
paying for kids that people can't afford.

That's the thing, these kids don't magically disappear. so what becomes the best use of the money.

 

[Dakota731]

If you want to be indignant about something how about that Medicaid covers Viagra even in states where it doesn't cover birth control.

That should definitely be cut in my opinion as well as sex change operations that are now paid for (and are extremely costly) under Obamacare. Even prison inmates have been approved for these procedures with taxpayers footing the bill.
I sometimes feel I am living in a parallel universe void from common sense and individual responsibility. What started as a nation built on self-reliance and a strong work ethic has become a country full of whiners who depend upon the government for their every want and need.
We raise our children to become independent and self supporting, however we want the government to support and spoon feed an ever growing segment of our population thus taking away the satisfaction gained from making personal decisions and actually achieving something every day.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Viagra, also known as sildenafil, and medications like it, have important uses for conditions other than just erectile dysfunction, including puimonary hypertension and Raynaud's disease.

http://www.health.harvard.edu/press_releases/viagra-and-pulmonary-hypertension

Perhaps this is why it's listed as a drug that's "approved" by Medicaid.

But even if not, erectile dysfunction in men is a condition that can seriously impede quality of life. Not sure why it shouldn't be covered for that.

 

[OceanAnnie]

LOL. you have a great point. bc is not a huge issue in the healthcare issue.



So, I'm just going on my little corner of the world.
Camden NJ which is just about the poorest county in the North.
50% of the residents are below poverty level and 76% are on federal assistance.

So in Camden there are not major supermarkets, no walmarts, no CVS's. most are bodegas and strip malls. sure you are mobile so you (collective you) simply assume they can get in there car and find a way to get to the walmart.
Now, the people that we service in my church are 99.9% single moms, not a one owns a car, all have 2-3 kids. Most are working minimum or below minimum wage jobs (yes, cleaning companies, landscapers and kitchens pay below minimum).
So after 8 hours, work, pick kids up, go to the local bodega if they have to and then back home.
no, not as easy as you make it.

So like every thing else, human nature gravitates to what's easy. you make whatever you are offering easily available and the "thing" gets wide spread use. You make what you are offering hard to obtain.....well you get totally different result.
Once again, guys. this is just the my one area.

Hi E.

Who said anything was easy? I gave an example that was easy. But the point is, you have to eat to survive. There are stores for that. Everyone has to get their groceries. No matter how bad you have it, you have to get your own groceries.

Surely people are on prescription drugs in the area you mentioned. How in the world do they get them?

Absolutely. so what you have to do is "hedge" your dollars.
what's more costly.
free birth control
paying for kids that people can't afford.

That's the thing, these kids don't magically disappear. so what becomes the best use of the money.

You make it seem like there have been no options. There have been options.
Medicaid. Planned Parenthood. Was there room for improvement? Sure.

The options have been there, yet the problems by and large remain. So is it hedging dollars? I don't know. BC is a personal choice.

 

[eliza61]

Hi E.

Who said anything was easy? I gave an example that was easy. But the point is, you have to eat to survive. There are stores for that. Everyone has to get their groceries. No matter how bad you have it, you have to get your own groceries.

Surely people are on prescription drugs in the area you mentioned. How in the world do they get them?




You make it seem like there have been no options. There have been options.
Medicaid. Planned Parenthood. Was there room for improvement? Sure.

The options have been there, yet the problems by and large remain. So is it hedging dollars? I don't know. BC is a personal choice.

Hey OA,

So let me first say, my work is through my church lol so our pastor kinda pushes the "abstinence" agenda. unfortunately for most of the young ladies, that ship has sailed.
Also, my population is small. I think Camden is a city of maybe 75K thousand and we get about 2 or 3 thousand referrals. so I'm a little bubble.

Anyhoo,

A couple things: One problem is and you've probably heard the term, many seriously poor areas are food deserts. No grocery store within miles. The nearest walmart to Camden is in Cherry hill on a street called rt 38. the biggest obstacle is of course public transportation.
So when they can, do public transportation. the bus you're limited in by simply what you can carry.
They don't shop like you and I where we could possibly follow the sales and stock up.

Look at it this way. If you've ever seen stories on the ghetto, what is the first glaring thing you notice, the broken down house and then the second thing is that there is NOTHING around for miles. no stores, no drugstores, no sandwich shops NOTHING.

A few young ladies will try and arrange a ride on a weekend but basically you hit the corner bodega. So for example I have a corner store, a gallon of milk is 7 bucks almost three dollars more than if I went to shoprite. Now for me it's a convenience thing. I can eat the upcharge since it's a once in an emergency type thing but if you've got 3 kids on food stamps and the bodega is your prime food market...

I truly don't know where there is a drug store in North Camden, there is one cvs near the hospital. most that we service simply use Cooper hospital. which leads to other expensive issues, using hospital facilities for routine stuff or hopefully where ever their doctor is located they will have a pharmacy close by. but it's not like you and I where we go to the doctor and then come home and drop the prescription off at the drug store and pick it up on our way back. No way, if they get home that prescription has a good chance of not getting filled for quite a while ESPECIALLY if it's non life threatening.

The young ladies who have kids with asthma, that's one of the first things the social workers will ask... does the kid have enough inhalers on hand.

interestingly enough, I live near the Art museum in Philadelphia and we have probably one grocery store, which is a whole foods. lol not exactly inexpensive. I just think we, who don't struggle daily and I do mean every day have a very narrow vision.
I had this discussion with my sister in Manhattan. Not pertaining to insurance but how when we were kids there was a butcher, grocery store and a pharmacy within let's say 20 blocks of where you lived. now butchers have totally disappeared and you need a car to get to the grocery.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Hey OA,

So let me first say, my work is through my church lol so our pastor kinda pushes the "abstinence" agenda. unfortunately for most of the young ladies, that ship has sailed.
Also, my population is small. I think Camden is a city of maybe 75K thousand and we get about 2 or 3 thousand referrals. so I'm a little bubble.

Anyhoo,

A couple things: One problem is and you've probably heard the term, many seriously poor areas are food deserts. No grocery store within miles. The nearest walmart to Camden is in Cherry hill on a street called rt 38. the biggest obstacle is of course public transportation.
So when they can, do public transportation. the bus you're limited in by simply what you can carry.
They don't shop like you and I were we could possibly follow the sales and stock up.

A few young ladies will try and arrange a ride on a weekend

I truly don't know where there is a drug store in North Camden. most that we service simply use Cooper hospital. which leads to other expensive issues, using hospital facilities for routine stuff.

I understand the issues you brought up.

People usually do come together to get what they need. Finding rides and such.

I was curious so I looked to see if Camden has a Planned Parenthood Center. It does. It's called Camden Center. I think it's located in Southern Camden but it didn't look like it was that far from Cooper hospital. Maps can be a funny thing online. I imagine it is on the bus line though.

 

[olwyngdh]

Viagra, also known as sildenafil, and medications like it, have important uses for conditions other than just erectile dysfunction, including puimonary hypertension and Raynaud's disease.

http://www.health.harvard.edu/press_releases/viagra-and-pulmonary-hypertension

Perhaps this is why it's listed as a drug that's "approved" by Medicaid.

But even if not, erectile dysfunction in men is a condition that can seriously impede quality of life. Not sure why it shouldn't be covered for that.

And birth control pills treat:
polycystic ovarian syndrome
endometriosis
anemia related to menstruation
painful menstruation
hormone related migraines
hormone related skin problems like acne
PMS and other hormone related mood disorders
Plus, current research seems to be leading to information that they lower the risk of breast cancer

But hey, none of those are important because as a side effect they prevent pregnancy, and we can't have that now can we? Erectile dysfunction leads to so much more loss of quality of life than any of these things.

 

[kandb]

I have a question for all you people who I feel bad for who have these horrendous policies. A lot of you seem to have a high deductible. Can you go to a dr a just pay a co pay? I live in NJ and work for the county government, so thankfully I have great insurance. We can go to any doctor in our BCBS PPO plan and just pay $10. Our prescriptions are either $5 or $15. My family pays around $300/mo but it will eventually go up to $500. I was against obamacare and think that the insurance eventually will get a lot worse and a lot more expensive. It's sad, the government can't run anything correctly, let alone everyone's healthcare. I think it's a disgrace that some people will not go to the doctor because they have a large deductible. What family has $6K a year to pay out of pocket BEFORE they go to a doctor. It's so sad.

 

[eliza61]

I understand the issues you brought up.

People usually do come together to get what they need. Finding rides and such.

I was curious so I looked to see if Camden has a Planned Parenthood Center. It does. It's called Camden Center. I think it's located in Southern Camden but it didn't look like it was that far from Cooper hospital. Maps can be a funny thing online. I imagine it is on the bus line though.

you know some thing OA, I actually never thought of Planned parenthood. It probably is pretty close to Cooper. Cooper tends to be the centralized health access area so I would think if you wanted to reach the most people, that's where you would be. It's also a bit safer than the rest of Camden.

 

[eliza61]

I have a question for all you people who I feel bad for who have these horrendous policies. A lot of you seem to have a high deductible. Can you go to a dr a just pay a co pay? I live in NJ and work for the county government, so thankfully I have great insurance. We can go to any doctor in our BCBS PPO plan and just pay $10. Our prescriptions are either $5 or $15. My family pays around $300/mo but it will eventually go up to $500. I was against obamacare and think that the insurance eventually will get a lot worse and a lot more expensive. It's sad, the government can't run anything correctly, let alone everyone's healthcare. I think it's a disgrace that some people will not go to the doctor because they have a large deductible. What family has $6K a year to pay out of pocket BEFORE they go to a doctor. It's so sad.

I find this pretty ironic as you have "government" health care. so what your saying is that it's ok for you but you don't want anyone else to have it?


It is a disgrace that people can't go to a doctor due to high deductibles, the ACA prevents some of that.

The problem I have with the ACA is that health care is not a "one size fits all" type of issue.

We've been talking about Camden NJ which is one of the poorest places in the states. There health care needs are going to be different than say, New mexico.

Now for some the ACA works. My oldest son will turn 26 soon. He's a plumber apprentice, his employer offers no insurance so he can get a cheapy plan through the ACA.

for me, I'm retiring soon, again the ACA will give me a much cheaper plan than what I can get individually especially since I'm retiring way before 65 and medicare kicks in.

 

[kandb]

Eliza-You totally misunderstood my post. I have great government healthcare but it's not obamacare, it's insurance that the government agency that I work for pays for. I have empathy for people who are stuck with obamacare. From what I can see, it sucks and not many people can afford the super high deductibles and I am sure a lot of people don't bring their kids to the dr or themselves to the dr, because they cannot afford to pay OOP until they reach their ridiculous deductible.

 

[DaretoDis]

I hope most of the respondents to this thread, regardless of political persuasion, or support or lack of for ACA feels strongly enough to vote this Tuesday.

Something that does not seem to be taught in schools these days are the thoughts of the founding fathers. The individual, unfettered by the constraints of government, is paramount in their writings. Yet many are able to take our founding documents and paint them with a Marxist brush, preferring that government knows better than the individual.

Anyway, VOTE!!!

 

[OceanAnnie]

Eliza-You totally misunderstood my post. I have great government healthcare but it's not obamacare, it's insurance that the government agency that I work for pays for. I have empathy for people who are stuck with obamacare. From what I can see, it sucks and not many people can afford the super high deductibles and I am sure a lot of people don't bring their kids to the dr or themselves to the dr, because they cannot afford to pay OOP until they reach their ridiculous deductible.

We aren't even stuck with it kit and kaboodle-- yet. The mandates have changed what we do have. We are paying much more for much less service. It's nuts!

When I hear how great it is suffice it to say, all I can think about is it isn't great for us!!!

In no way shape or form is it great for us.

 

[eliza61]

Eliza-You totally misunderstood my post. I have great government healthcare but it's not obamacare, it's insurance that the government agency that I work for pays for. I have empathy for people who are stuck with obamacare. From what I can see, it sucks and not many people can afford the super high deductibles and I am sure a lot of people don't bring their kids to the dr or themselves to the dr, because they cannot afford to pay OOP until they reach their ridiculous deductible.

thanks, you're right I totally didn't understand it. The folks who I know have Obama care are simply happy to have any health insurance. they basically are the working poor who had nothing before and now at least can go to the doctors. their income is so low that they qualify for credits.

I hope most of the respondents to this thread, regardless of political persuasion, or support or lack of for ACA feels strongly enough to vote this Tuesday.

Something that does not seem to be taught in schools these days are the thoughts of the founding fathers. The individual, unfettered by the constraints of government, is paramount in their writings. Yet many are able to take our founding documents and paint them with a Marxist brush, preferring that government knows better than the individual.

Anyway, VOTE!!!

I hate that voter turnout is so low in mid term election. Now I'm a minority so the founding fathers for us aren't the great guys that everyone else thinks they are. Basically I did have a heck of a lot of "constraints". lol mines were some times made of iron, so those "documents" weren't worth a lot. so while we have a small admiration for them, we gain our rights in a totally different manner.
And pretty much considering it took the "government" to pass a law to vote in the first place.... well it's just hard for us to go with the "founding" fathers argument.

We aren't even stuck with it kit and kaboodle-- yet. The mandates have changed what we do have. We are paying much more for much less service. It's nuts!

When I hear how great it is suffice it to say, all I can think about is it isn't great for us!!!

In no way shape or form is it great for us.

I really can't make an argument for or against. I work for a big company that pretty much had been raising our rates for the last twenty some odd years. so I had the rather standard 4% increase this year that we've been seeing before the ACA.

It also helps that my family is pretty blessed in that we're generally healthy. All 3 of us have been to the doctors only once for routine annual wellness exams. Dh died from leukemia before the ACA was passed and had a boat load of medical bills even with great company insurance so I really can't see any big difference.

now I have a HSA, I elected a 500 dollar contribution and my employee contributes 1200 a year. I pay a little over 2700 bucks a year but that also covers dental, vision and 1 week of vacation (employees can buy a week extra vacation.)
When I retire I'll be 58 so I'll buy into the ACA as it will be cheaper than any thing else I've been investigating until I hit 65. I can't say if it will suck or not but I'm thinking it will beat nothing. I'm doing every thing I can to stay healthy.

but I do hate that it's caused hardship for many and hope that we do find a better solution to the health care issue. I think it's going to continue to be a problem for our nation for a while especially as our population gets older and lives longer.

 

[DaretoDis]

I hate that voter turnout is so low in mid term election. Now I'm a minority so the founding fathers for us aren't the great guys that everyone else thinks they are. Basically I did have a heck of a lot of "constraints". lol mines were some times made of iron, so those "documents" weren't worth a lot. so while we have a small admiration for them, we gain our rights in a totally different manner.
And pretty much considering it took the "government" to pass a law to vote in the first place.... well it's just hard for us to go with the "founding" fathers argument.

So sad that your life philosophy comes from a position of hate, but it makes sense considering the current leadership of the African-American community.

 

[eliza61]

So sad that your life philosophy comes from a position of hate, but it makes sense considering the current leadership of the African-American community.

Wth!! Who did I say I hate ?? What the he'ck are you taking about. I said i hate that voter turn out is so low for mid term ejections and it is, people don't vote but got big races. I said that the founding father don't hold any special attributes. They were pretty much like the people we have in power now, They wrote laws that benefited themselves.
I said I hated the fact that the ACA is causing hard ship for a lot of people, and I am sad about that. I don't think keeping the ability to get health care should bankrupt a person.
Sorry your imagination ran away with you on that. I don't hate anyone, ok Kim Kardashian but can't be helped.