God Lives On (or as MHopkins2 says...hookairs.)

[auntpolly]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
With the exception of my children, I personally don't care who does or doesn't say the pledge, nor do I care whether they say "under God" or not - totally up to each individual. But I find it interesting that you equate "true freedom" with not saying the pledge...I guess those of us that say the pledge are not as free as those of you that don't?

You're free whether you say it or not. Go ahead and say it until the cows come home but just don't feel more patriotic about yourself than somebody who doesn't feel the need. And I don't mean "you" personally. To me, it's a bunch of words that I don't see the purpose of. If it means something to you, go for it. Just don't treat it like it's the symbol of some kind of secret society that only the chosen few can be part of and only if you say it just right.

 

[AirForceRocks]

Go ahead and say it until the cows come home but just don't feel more patriotic about yourself than somebody who doesn't feel the need. And I don't mean "you" personally. To me, it's a bunch of words that I don't see the purpose of. If it means something to you, go for it. Just don't treat it like it's the symbol of some kind of secret society that only the chosen few can be part of and only if you say it just right.

I actually don't know of anyone that feels they are more patriotic because they say the pledge or that considers anyone else less patriotic when they don't say it. And I would be interested in where you get the notion that anyone thinks "only the chosen few can be part of".

 

[auntpolly]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
I actually don't know of anyone that feels they are more patriotic because they say the pledge or that considers anyone else less patriotic when they don't say it. And I would be interested in where you get the notion that anyone thinks "only the chosen few can be part of".

Once again, I have no idea what how you feel, so I am not talking about you. But you tell me; why does anybody need to say it? I've already said go ahead say it if you feel good about saying it.But what purpose does it serve?

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Originally posted by auntpolly
Once again, I have no idea what how you feel, so I am not talking about you. But you tell me; why does anybody need to say it? I've already said go ahead say it if you feel good about saying it.But what purpose does it serve?

I was wondering why it would matter to the OP if someone didn't want the pledge said? Can't your kids say the pledge at home? Isn't that why a lot of parents are home schooling nowadays?

 

[tonyswife]

Originally posted by auntpolly
Once again, I have no idea what how you feel, so I am not talking about you. But you tell me; why does anybody need to say it? I've already said go ahead say it if you feel good about saying it.But what purpose does it serve?

Are you serious? People say the pledge because it is one way to disply their patriotism. Surely you are not suggesting that it's empty and meaningless?

 

[helenabear]

AFK, I happen to work for a public company, not a private one (by definition at least). So even in this company if a small group feel offended or uncomfortable, they must be made to feel comfortable. Yes, they can quit, but I can also be fired if I do not deal with it in whatever they claim to be an appropriate manner.

I agree that it isn't a governing document, but there is a legislated, official pledge that was instituted by Congress.

Well then we can make ammendments to the pledge as I already stated. We can easily have it written to say that the current version will be as such and keep an official record of how it was and how it is currently officially said. To me that is a bit of a moot point, but I still don't think comparing the pledge to the Constitution is a fair thing to do... apples and oranges in my eyes.

 

[auntpolly]

Originally posted by tonyswife
Are you serious? People say the pledge because it is one way to disply their patriotism. Surely you are not suggesting that it's empty and meaningless?

I'm sure people have very their own good reasons for saying it. But it's not an individual sentiment. It's an oath with prescribed words and please don't try to tell me that there aren't people who consider it unAmerican to not want to say it! I'm all for expressing your love for your country, believe me. But an oath like this feels creepy, unAmerican, and anti-freedom to me, so I just don't say it. No biggie. If others get a feeling of happiness from it, that's just great.

 

[AirForceRocks]

AFK, I happen to work for a public company, not a private one (by definition at least).

So you work for the government? If so, I'm very surprised that they could tell you that you can't have overtly religious items displayed. There have never been such prohibitions where I've worked, so long as the items are in our own cubicles or offices.

Once again, I have no idea what how you feel, so I am not talking about you.

That's fine, because I wasn't referring just to myself in my response.

but I still don't think comparing the pledge to the Constitution is a fair thing to do... apples and oranges in my eyes.

You're missing the point. I wasn't saying that the pledge and the Constitution are the same, I was addressing your idea that once something is written, it should just stay that way, that things that weren't in the original shouldn't be added.

 

[tonyswife]

Originally posted by auntpolly
I'm sure people have very their own good reasons for saying it. But it's not an individual sentiment.

Yes, it is. "I pledge allegience..."

It's an oath with prescribed words

Yes, it is.

and please don't try to tell me that there aren't people who consider it unAmerican to not want to say it!

What does that have to do with anything? No one on this thread had suggested so.

I'm all for expressing your love for your country, believe me. But an oath like this feels creepy, unAmerican, and anti-freedom to me, so I just don't say it.

Good for you. However, what exactly about a pledge that you are free to say or not to say seems "anti-freedom" to you?

 

[Big Dude]

We could have 2 different pledges that you can choose from. How about:

'I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, born and unborn.'

or

'I pledge allegiance to my Flag, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with equality, liberty and justice for all.'

Looks as this has turned into a debate anyway so............I choose the 1st pledge. Just because I can!


Adam aka Big Dude

 

[auntpolly]

Originally posted by tonyswife
Yes, it is. "I pledge allegience..."



Yes, it is.



What does that have to do with anything? No one on this thread had suggested so.



Good for you. However, what exactly about a pledge that you are free to say or not to say seems "anti-freedom" to you?

It feels creepy to have words put in my mouth. But that's just me. Have I mentioned that you can say it all you want if you like it? (I think I did a bunch of times!)

 

[phorsenuf]

Originally posted by auntpolly
I'm sure people have very their own good reasons for saying it. But it's not an individual sentiment. It's an oath with prescribed words and please don't try to tell me that there aren't people who consider it unAmerican to not want to say it! I'm all for expressing your love for your country, believe me. But an oath like this feels creepy, unAmerican, and anti-freedom to me, so I just don't say it. No biggie. If others get a feeling of happiness from it, that's just great.

I'm curious about something (and I'm not judging/flaming or being mean), but how do you feel about the national anthem and how do you feel it differs from the pledge.
To me, they go hand in hand.

BTW, here's the ENTIRE national anthem (for everybody to see), I highlighted a line of it in red. Did anyone know about that line? I'll admit I didn't.

The Star-Spangled Banner


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh, say, can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, thro' the perilous fight'
O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming.
And the rockets red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
Oh, say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?


On the shore dimly seen, thro' the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected, now shines on the stream;
'Tis the star-spangled banner: oh, long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.


And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion
A home and a country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash'd out their foul footstep's pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.


Oh, thus be it ever when free men shall stand,
Between their loved homes and the war's desolation;
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the heav'n-rescued land
Praise the Power that has made and preserved us as a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust";
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

 

[auntpolly]

Originally posted by Big Dude


Looks as this has turned into a debate anyway so............I choose the 1st pledge. Just because I can!


Adam aka Big Dude [/B]

And thank God you can!

 

[tonyswife]

Originally posted by auntpolly
It feels creepy to have words put in my mouth.

But this is a fallacy. No one is putting words in your mouth unless you are forced to say the pledge. I guess I'm still confused as to how you think it's "anti-freedom"?

Have I mentioned that you can say it all you want if you like it? (I think I did a bunch of times!)

Yes, you have mentioned. I appreciate that, I am aware of my right to say it or not though.

 

[auntpolly]

Originally posted by phorsenuf
I'm curious about something (and I'm not judging/flaming or being mean), but how do you feel about the national anthem and how do you feel it differs from the pledge.
To me, they go hand in hand.

Oh I hate that song! It's about war and it's so hard to sing!

Kidding, kind of. My point isn't to do away with either the song or the pledge. I'm just saying I don't like them. I'm not trying to win a debate. Just saying, well, am I saying this right? Hookairs!

 

[flaps]

We could have 2 different pledges that you can choose from. How about :

'I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, born and unborn.'

or

'I pledge allegiance to my Flag, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with equality, liberty and justice for all.'

Hmm...

I'm kinda partial to the first option, but that second option does have fewer words to memorize...

Tough call.

 

[phorsenuf]

I like the first I do I do I do!!!!!

 

[auntpolly]

Originally posted by tonyswife
But this is a fallacy. No one is putting words in your mouth unless you are forced to say the pledge. I guess I'm still confused as to how you think it's "anti-freedom"?



Yes, you have mentioned. I appreciate that, I am aware of my right to say it or not though.

Goodness I'm staying out of these debate thread. Back to the trip planning threads for me! No reason to get huffy I was just saying my opinion!

 

[tonyswife]

Originally posted by auntpolly
Goodness I'm staying out of these debate thread. Back to the trip planning threads for me! No reason to get huffy I was just saying my opinion!

I am not in the least huffy.

You said you felt the pledge was "anti-freedom" among other htings. Of course, you are entitled to this opinion, but I am trying to understsand what you mean by that because I whole- heartedly disagree. Disagreeing and asking for clarification are NOT "getting huffy"

If you didn't realize this was a debate thread and no longer wish to participate, I also understand that. If that's the case, have a good one.

 

[auntpolly]

Originally posted by tonyswife


If you didn't realize this was a debate thread and no longer wish to participate, I also understand that. If that's the case, have a good one.

Same to you. Yeah, I'd rather talk about the advantages of WL over the Contemporary.