God Lives On (or as MHopkins2 says...hookairs.)

[tonyswife]

Originally posted by auntpolly
Same to you. Yeah, I'd rather talk about the advantages of WL over the Contemporary.

Clearly the WL has aesthetic appeal that the contemporary can't touch, but transportation from the contemporry is a huge advantage.

 

[Big Dude]

Clearly the WL has aesthetic appeal that the contemporary can't touch, but transportation from the contemporry is a huge advantage.

What do you mean WL appeals to ATHIESTS!!! Oh that was aesthetic appeal, Just misread your statement. Carry on.

Adam aka Big Dude

 

[tonyswife]

Originally posted by Big Dude
What do you mean WL appeals to ATHIESTS!!! Oh that was aesthetic appeal, Just misread your statement. Carry on.

Adam aka Big Dude

 

[MHopkins2]

Hey, look at me and my power to influence thread titles.

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by MHopkins2
Hey, look at me and my power to influence thread titles.

You are a goddess!

 

[MHopkins2]

Flattery will get you everywhere.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Originally posted by MHopkins2
Hey, look at me and my power to influence thread titles.

ROFL!!!!!

 

[katerkat]

Originally posted by MHopkins2
Hey, look at me and my power to influence thread titles.

Honestly, I'm just waiting for the thread entitled *snerk*

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by MHopkins2
Flattery will get you everywhere.

If there's one skill I've managed to overly-develop in my long years on this planet, it's sucking-up!

Anyway, I am very impressed by your awesome power to inspire a thread title change. Few DIS-ers can claim that. Remember to wield your power carefully.

 

[EsmeraldaX]

I am an agnostic and I am very happy with this outcome.

I am so sick and tired of my fellow agnostic/atheists trying to change the history of this country and infringe upon everyone elses right to express their faith.

I AM FULLY AWARE THAT THESE WORDS WERE ADDED IN THE 1950'S. So please do not lecture me on that.

I for one do not really belive in a God. But I am also not arrogant and knowledgable enough about everything in the universe to proclaim with certainty that there is not one (or many) either.

As for saying Under God in the pledge, I have the choice everywhere I go to not say these words. Hearing people say them is not offensive to me. Just like I disagree with a lot of what certain politicians say, or entertainers. I have every right to tune it out and honestly, IMO, with poverty, diseases, terrorism, a failing educational system, and numerous other social and financial woes in this world - two words in the pledge that I am not FORCED to say are the least of my concerns.

The way I see it, it does not specify which God you are Under. If you worship a tree, that could be it. If you worship no god then you have the right to skip over those words. Your child has the right to skip over those words. If this makes your child uncomfortable, then maybe you need to explain their beliefs to them more clearly so they will be proud of the things they are taught at home. Kids tease kids about everything. The best thing you can do is teach your children respect for others, even if they disagree.

IMO, this father was simply trying to piss off the mother. It was little more than an ugly custody battle. The mother, if I'm not mistaken, was a devout Christian and the father does not like that. What I see here is a father trying to teach his daughter that HE is the only person in the world who is right and that everyone who disagrees should have their rights revoked.

As for things like the statues of the 10 commandments on public lawns, etc. to the best of my knowledge there is NO LAW in place saying that every other religious group (including the atheists) cannot put up similair statues expressing their beliefs.

How great it would be if instead of whining and throwing a hissy if people from other faiths put statues of their beliefs up right next to the Christian ones and we could see all the faiths lined up side by side. THAT is what this country was founded on, the right of everyone to practice their free religion, without the government forcing one on you and banning all others. (In Salem Ma, there are museums within the same block focusing on Christian beliefs and Wiccan ones. One of the reasons I like Salem so much is because everyone seems to get along there and respect each other. It's amazing).

I see a Christian president right now. I see a Christian president who has strong moral values that in many cases effect his choices. I see that as a man knowing who he is and what he stands for. I do not see a law being written that says everyone in this nation must be a devout Christian and the practice of any other religion is banned. If anyone can find that law and quote it to me, I'd be glad to hear otherwise.

I am just so sick of hearing these things.

For those Christians/Muslims/Jews/Buddhists/Hindus etc. out there - don't worry. MOST of us who are not believers DO respect your rights to practice your faith just as much as you respect our right not to practice any faith.

Liberty and Justice for ALL (all does not mean just atheists),

Sheri

 

[poohandwendy]

Well said, Esmeralda!!!! ITA...

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by EsmeraldaX
Liberty and Justice for ALL (all does not mean just atheists),

Just as the "ALL" doesn't mean just Christians, too.

 

[RachelEllen]

This topic always baffles me. In a way, I agree with AFR, it's really not that big a deal. It doesn't bother me day to day.

There are certain advantages that go with being part of the majority. I'm white. Of all the advantages I get out of this accident of birth, I'll pick an example as begign as the fact that when I watch TV commercials, most people look like me. There must be a certain comfort level in that. I've never seen it any other way, so I don't know. But you know what? If someone who wasn't white told me how sad is sometimes made them to be sitting around with white friends and be remindered of the fact that they were different, I think I would respect that. I think I might have some compassion. I might think they were a bit strange if they dedicated their life to getting more people of color in JC Penny's ads (there are just more important things to worry about) But, I don't think I would go on about how they should get a life, and how this country was founded by white people, how the country is really 'anti-white' because it's not like I have the same amount of privlege I would have had 150 years ago.

For all the same silliness about how 'anti-Christian' you hearabout this country, that's only compared to the extreme level of comfort and privledge that Christians enjoy by the mere accident of being the majority here. It's almost a more insidious problem, it's the background noise agasint which we live, rather than some huge injustice you could fight to change. God's name is on the money, in the pledge, every Christmas I see the world decorated for someone else's religion, I hear my president refer to someone else's god.

And you know what else. For every person who has nothing better to do than go to court over the pledge, there are many of who if asked would be suprised the question even came up. Of course having 'in God' in pledge is the government supportiing religion. Of course I winced a little in school when I had to on a daily basis stand up and show everyone what an atheist wierdo I was. But as cowardly as it might be, I'd rather go on with my life and pretend that we're all just concerned with bigger things than have to face just how vitriolic some people will be in the defence of thier privledge.

Rachel

 

[MHopkins2]

Originally posted by EsmeraldaX
For those Christians/Muslims/Jews/Buddhists/Hindus etc. out there - don't worry. MOST of us who are not believers DO respect your rights to practice your faith just as much as you respect our right not to practice any faith.

I know all too many people who expect me to respect their faith, while being QUITE vocal about having no respect for my lack of faith. "If you don't like it here, move to some horrible Godless country!!" (and countless variations of same) comes to mind.

 

[MAC3]

People can B & M all they want. My family will always recite it One Nation Under God. Even if we're still talking after everyone else finishes!

 

[Bobbles]

Originally posted by Big Dude
We could have 2 different pledges that you can choose from. How about:

'I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, born and unborn.'

or

'I pledge allegiance to my Flag, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with equality, liberty and justice for all.'

Looks as this has turned into a debate anyway so............I choose the 1st pledge. Just because I can!


Adam aka Big Dude

...and while we are changing the PoA.. I think we could make it truly more modern if we simply add a few more words.

Pledge A:
'I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all who have the proper amount of money, born and unborn.'

Pledge B:
'I pledge allegiance to my Flag, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with equality, liberty and justice for all, who have the proper amount of money.'

There, now I feel better! Either one works now!
HA HA!

 

[Big Dude]

Hey, look at me and my power to influence thread titles.

Perhaps a vist from the tag fairies is in order!

Adam aka Big Dude

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by Eeyore1954
Just as the "ALL" doesn't mean just Christians, too.

And if you read my entire post I never said it meant just Christians. I said ALL. Since it was the atheists initiating the action here, that was the group I mentioned.

 

[caitycaity]

But I am also not arrogant and knowledgable enough about everything in the universe to proclaim with certainty that there is not one (or many) either.

you know if ANYONE on here said that religious people were arrogant for the faith they had, they would be flamed to kingdom come. and yet you have no problem telling others that they are arrogant for their own beliefs. i'm happy that you are happy with your own beliefs, but where do you get off telling others that they are arrogant for their own?

i am an atheist, but i think that most people around here would agree that i am respectful of people who believe differently than me. it would be nice if that was reciprocated a little once in awhile. for some reason, it's ok to put down non-believers for their faith, but not believers for theirs.

 

[tonyswife]

Originally posted by caitycaity
and yet you have no problem telling others that they are arrogant for their own beliefs.

She didn't call all non-believers arrogant, she said SHE was not arrogant.