FP + What we know and what we want to know

[Superspectral]

"I've just had an apostrophe." "I think you mean an epiphany." "Lightning has just struck my brain." "Well, that must hurt.."

I think I know how Disney thinks this will keep people on site more...

They don't WANT you spending just one day in the park. It will take a couple days in the parks in order to ride everything now (AK excepted, of course...)

Exactly. You pay by the day. But Disney is really concerned by how much money you have paid *per hour* in the park. Say in the past 50,000 people per day spent 10 hours each in the MK, say being about full capacity for the park that day. With MyMagic+/FP+ maybe they alter the behaviour of guests to spend 6 hours a day, and by spreading out the arrivals, they now get 83,000 people in the park per day. They get up to 60% more revenue without spending an extra dollar in labor costs. Or they can cut back the hours, and still only have 50,000 people - with hypothetically the same guest satisfaction.

BTW, this is exactly the principle behind MYYW tickets. MYYW may convince you to stay longer in the hotel, but IMHO they are really based on reducing the number of hours per day on average a guest stays in a park. If you buy a 1 day ticket, most people can spend 16 hours from open until close in the park. Over 10 days, that pace is not sustainable. If you are committing to a 10 day stay, you probably will only average 6 hours per day in the park - which is like only 37% of what a single day visitor would do. Which is why they can offer it to off-site guests. On an hourly basis, they probably make very close to the same number of dollars just from ticket sales on the lower priced 10 day ticket as the 1 day ticket.

Now if MyMagic+/FP+ does in fact reduce the number of hours spent in the park, Disney could actually split the difference and reduce ticket prices but yet still make more money. Disney tickets have been going up 5% year for decades, and soon will top $100/day. Hypothetically, this new program could reduce the price increases for a few years but yet still grow Disney's bottom line at the same rate as in the past.

 

[UNCFanatik]

Of course then there is the other extreme. You certainly see those that agree with everything that Disney does and continually ridicule those who are unhappy or uneasy.

I cant understand being upset or uneasy about something that is ACTUAL but not getting upset or uneasy about what is PROJECTED to happen.

Everything PROJECTED will not become ACTUAL.

 

[dadddio]

Forgive me if already asked/answered.

Going in June (2-12) and staying off site. I know that the mymagic+ fastpass+ will be rolled out to resort guests and photo pass+ holders before others. We are planning on buying photopass+ so will we be "required" to use fastpass+ and will we get a magic band with our photopass+ purchase? I am just confused how it will work. The answer may not even be out there yet. Suggestions and opinions appreciated.

As a photopass+ purchaser, you will get a magic band and be in MyMagic+. You won't be required to use FP+, however. In fact, unless you add your tickets to your MyMagic profile, you won't be able to use FP+.

All you have to do is not add your tickets to your MyMagic+ profile, and you will not be on FP+. Whether or not FPs exist at that time as we currently know them is unknown, however.

 

[Planogirl]

I cant understand being upset or uneasy about something that is ACTUAL but not getting upset or uneasy about what is PROJECTED to happen.

Everything PROJECTED will not become ACTUAL.

I can already say that I am personally unhappy (not upset) with what is apparently ACTUAL. I don't like highly structured vacations and I'm certain (at least reasonably) that this change will require more planning. That is not how I vacation. However as I said I am not upset but wary and relieved that I don't have a vacation planned until I see how this all works. I find that to be a reasonable approach.

Besides it's not much better IMO to scoff at people when they voice their fears or unhappiness with the reports.

 

[WillAustin]

These "superuser" reveled in the past when they were able to take advantage of something that relatively few people knew about but now when it appears that the playing field will be leveled, they dont like it one bit.

In everything, there are always ways to take advantage of opportunities. The mere use of those opportunities doesn't make any of it unfair or "gaming of the system". Playing fields cannot be leveled enough to keep those willing to go through more of an effort from gaining some sort of advantage. I'm guessing "superusers" will still have plenty of chances for revelry in the coming months.

 

[dadddio]

Yes, but they're not going to just stop riding when their fastpasses are over. They are going to clog up the standby lines. And if that's too frustrating, I will just be done. I'm sure Disney won't care. But I'll be done. So I guess THEN the standby lines can thin out.

People may or may not choose to wait in the standby line.

Under the current FP system, I ride TSMM at least 4-5 times every day that we are in DHS. Never do I wait in a standby line for more than twenty minutes. If under the FP+ system, I can only obtain one FP+, then I will likely continue to arrive at RD to get a ride in before the line grows. Then I will use my FP+ to ride the ride. I likely will not ride it any more that day because I don't like to wait in long lines and certainly will not wait in a long line for a ride that I've already ridden that day.

The results of this change are as follows:

• I'm still happy because I rode a favorite ride a few times without a long wait.
• The people who got a FP+ who normally would have had to wait in standby are happy.
• The standby line moves a bit quicker because the overall number of riders has decreased (because I am not riding the ride three more times).
• The people who got 'my' FP+s have more time to do other things in the park, as do I.
• Average wait time for the ride should reduce since people like me won't be riding the ride as many times.

What I still wonder about is whether those people with 9-10 am Fast pass reservations will all actually show up, on time, in order to use them. It's still the same old "getting up early on vacation" issue. I can totally see Disney getting first timers to sign up for those slots; easy enough to do. But I still don't think they'll all show up. I guess we'll see.

They won't all show up. All people who get FP+s (or FPs) for any other time of the day won't show up, either. No doubt the company monitors this no show factor and can increase the number of FP+s (and FPs) as necessary.

 

[UNCFanatik]

In everything, there are always ways to take advantage of opportunities. The mere use of those opportunities doesn't make any of it unfair or "gaming of the system". Playing fields cannot be leveled enough to keep those willing to go through more of an effort from gaining some sort of advantage. I'm guessing "superusers" will still have plenty of chances for revelry in the coming months.

Of course you are correct about those who plan more. But once those advantages cease to exist, one should not be quick to blame Disney for "ruining" their future vacations.

However, according the previous accounts of gaining advantages, the only "effort" that was put forth by certain "superusers" was being told about an advantage. There was zero "effort" put forth. They were just among the fortunate few that new such an advantage existed.

And when people continue to try to seek advantages, Disney will respond in many instances and the revelry will be short lived and the angst will start again.

 

[Superspectral]

In a previous post I mentioned that Disney is most interested in not what guests pay per day as so much as what guests pay per hour on average, because most of their costs are hourly labor.

With the MagicBand RFID system, it would be entirely feasible for them to implement a system where they charge by hour. Here is how it could work:

Say the MK is open for 16 hours. The hourly rate is $12/hour with a 4 hour minimum. You get a MagicBand at the ticket both, where they put a $12x16= $192 hold on your credit card. You get in and out privaleges as much as you like. The RFID band tracks how long you were in the park (say Disney makes you swipe it for every attraction). They track it to the nearest minute. They might offer free hours or reduced rates at times of the day to even things out.

Stay for only the minimum 4 hours: $48
8 hours: $96
all 16: $192

Where the FP+ system allows people who want to spend less than a day to arrive whenever they want.

Now - will Disney do this? Doubtful. On really crowded days you pay more because you are waiting in line. People wouldn't like that.

 

[Planogirl]

In a previous post I mentioned that Disney is most interested in not what guests pay per day as so much as what guests pay per hour on average, because most of their costs are hourly labor.

With the MagicBand RFID system, it would be entirely feasible for them to implement a system where they charge by hour. Here is how it could work:

Say the MK is open for 16 hours. The hourly rate is $12/hour with a 4 hour minimum. You get a MagicBand at the ticket both, where they put a $12x16= $192 hold on your credit card. You get in and out privaleges as much as you like. The RFID band tracks how long you were in the park (say Disney makes you swipe it for every attraction). They track it to the nearest minute. They might offer free hours or reduced rates at times of the day to even things out.

Stay for only the minimum 4 hours: $48
8 hours: $96
all 16: $192

Where the FP+ system allows people who want to spend less than a day to arrive whenever they want.

Now - will Disney do this? Doubtful. On really crowded days you pay more because you are waiting in line. People wouldn't like that.

Plus people might be less inclined to spend part of their time browsing in shops. I certainly wouldn't stay to shop or in some cases dine if I was paying some fee per hour.

 

[Cinderumbrella]

Of course you are correct about those who plan more. But once those advantages cease to exist, one should not be quick to blame Disney for "ruining" their future vacations.

However, according the previous accounts of gaining advantages, the only "effort" that was put forth by certain "superusers" was being told about an advantage. There was zero "effort" put forth. They were just among the fortunate few that new such an advantage existed.

And when people continue to try to seek advantages, Disney will respond in many instances and the revelry will be short lived and the angst will start again.

Not following your train of thought here.

 

[dadddio]

I do think it is interesting that the Disneyparks blog has had no official response since January 7. I wonder where Mr. Staggs and Mr. Smith have disappeared to?

Both of those guys have jobs to do, presumably.

 

[bigAWL]

In everything, there are always ways to take advantage of opportunities. The mere use of those opportunities doesn't make any of it unfair or "gaming of the system". Playing fields cannot be leveled enough to keep those willing to go through more of an effort from gaining some sort of advantage. I'm guessing "superusers" will still have plenty of chances for revelry in the coming months.

I'm reminded of what Dr. Malcom said in Jurassic Park...

"The kind of control you're attempting simply is... it's not possible. If there is one thing the history of evolution has taught us it's that superusers will not be contained. Superusers break free, they expand to new territories and crash through barriers, painfully, maybe even dangerously, but, uh... well, there it is."

...or something like that.

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

Does anyone know how the wrist band will identify guests? Is there a photo they check when you swipe for purchases below the minimum required to type in the pin? I know they say don't worry there is no personal info on the band but if I don't notice its missing a person could make quite a few purchases below 50 dollars or whatever the minimum is before I report it. If a photo came up at the cash desk then the CM could check.

Also there must be some biometrics to it to stop people using other peoples bands and FP+ allowances?

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

I'm reminded of what Dr. Malcom said in Jurassic Park...

"The kind of control you're attempting simply is... it's not possible. If there is one thing the history of evolution has taught us it's that superusers will not be contained. Superusers break free, they expand to new territories and crash through barriers, painfully, maybe even dangerously, but, uh... well, there it is."

...or something like that.

Oh thats my favourite film and my favourite quote! another is "you were so consumed by if you could ( change the fast pass system ) you didn't stop to wonder if you should".....

From Dr Malcolm also...

 

[dadddio]

I'm sure that has something to do with it. 4 day trips will now need to be 7 to accomplish the same amount of things (theoretically).

I disagree.

In a previous recent post, I explained how FP+ would result in my having more touring time and others also benefiting from my use of it. If anything, in my example, I will be able to do more activities in the park per day. What I won't be able to do is ride a single ride five times without a line. I'll still be able to ride that ride, however. Since I am still able to ride the rides that I want to ride, I don't see me 'needing' to come back another day.

 

[dadddio]

Not ridiculing anyone - at least not for ACTUALLY FOLLOWING THROUGH and not going! It's been said on here a million times, so I'll make it a-million-and-one: fewer people go, shorter lines for me!

I am mocking (there - I've said it) those who SCREAM about Disney not investing in the parks or being innovative with technology, and then ALSO SCREAM when they do, do something in this vein.

Can we mock the people who claim that they are DUN with Disney and will never go back, but still hang out on the trip planning boards?

 

[Cinderumbrella]

I disagree.

In a previous recent post, I explained how FP+ would result in my having more touring time and others also benefiting from my use of it. If anything, in my example, I will be able to do more activities in the park per day. What I won't be able to do is ride a single ride five times without a line. I'll still be able to ride that ride, however. Since I am still able to ride the rides that I want to ride, I don't see me 'needing' to come back another day.

Right, but if you WANT to ride it 5 times, and still do all the other things, you would have to come back on a subsequent day. You are content with riding it once (or twice) and I suspect you are not alone in that thought (which is what they are banking on).

 

[dadddio]

My big hope in all of this is the same as yours. That reality will rear its ugly head when it goes live. I wouldn't be at all surprised though to see some surprises along the way, like them "forgetting" to turn off regular FP for the first group or two, so they get the best of both worlds like the test groups. Because we ALL know that's where push meets shove.

Given that those people's magic bands/RFID tickets won't physically work in the current FP machines, I'm betting that this will not happen.

 

[doconeill]

Does anyone know how the wrist band will identify guests? Is there a photo they check when you swipe for purchases below the minimum required to type in the pin? I know they say don't worry there is no personal info on the band but if I don't notice its missing a person could make quite a few purchases below 50 dollars or whatever the minimum is before I report it. If a photo came up at the cash desk then the CM could check.

Also there must be some biometrics to it to stop people using other peoples bands and FP+ allowances?

It is like a KTTW card, just RFID. There is a unique code number on it. When scanned, that code number is looked up in Disney's database to get whatever additional information is needed for the reason it was scanned (ticket entitlement for admission, room charge privileges for purchase, FP+ redemption, etc.). Everything is stored in the database. The only thing on the band is a code (possibly two - one for the RFID and a different one for the transmitter/longer range part - at least I wouldn't want the same code being broadcast and then more easily skimmed, and the second code wouldn't have access to purchases, etc.).

They may have the ability to call up a picture. Don't know at this point. But it would require the hardware and software to display it. A lot of POS terminals don't have it currently.

The finger scans are handled the same way. The scan code is not stored on the band or your KTTW card or your ticket. It's just another bit of data in the database that it matches against when your ticket is used.

The MagicBands, KTTW cards, MYW tickets, etc. are all essentially read-only media. They don't write data two them (at least after they are issued).

 

[cindyfan]

ohhhhhh...... this is a really long thread!
Sorry if someone else posted this question.....

Would we be able to just pick certain days during our stay for the FP+ or does it have to be for the entire stay?

I could see where we would use it only certain days and parks..... like our only day at DHS.
But we would not want it for the others. We hop too and will get FP at each park we hop to.

I guess it's a waiting game til they announce all the details.