First Stimulus, Now "Deficit Reduction".

[DawnCt1]

Rather like cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. All these people crying about having to pay taxes for people on welfare have the option of quitting their $250,000 a year job, moving with their kids to the projects and living on a few hundred dollars a month -- and they should do it!

Or how about more people carrying the water, appreciate those that do, and fewer people drinking the water.

 

[djm99]

It reduces the funds to the federal coffers that he has so generously chose to redistribute. His plan isn't about raising the standard of living. Its about lowering it for the producers.

Dawn, if that works for you - go ahead. If you think your little money would hurt Obama knock yourself out. I'm sure he'll FEEL the pain. I'm going back to work, so maybe I'll get (or give) your part.

 

[Disneycrazymom]

I don't think some want to see the total affect this will have on the amount of money to government has to spend.

Let's say that a person could work a little overtime or the wife could go back to work and earn just enough to move into the next tax bracket. Would they choose to do that? What gain does it give them if the little extra money is just taken in tax? That has always been the case when making finical decisions for a household.

But now the tax is for an even lower amount of pay. So people will look at what they earn and try to move downward to the lower bracket thus paying less in tax and working less in hours. Most people would choose to work less hours to bring home the same amount or more after taxes. I think many people are already trying to figure out the break even point.

I think many are concerned that as people adjust work hours/pay and the tax revenue falls, the administration will again lower the bracket to keep tax dollars coming in at a required level and it will be continuous circle where no one gets ahead.

 

[minnie61650]

It reduces the funds to the federal coffers that he has so generously chose to redistribute. His plan isn't about raising the standard of living. Its about lowering it for the producers.

Sorry you feel that way.

I think the Stimulus Bill adds good incentives for many small businesses.

DH and I do NOT mind the Bush tax cut expiring if some of our increased tax money can help the middle class get tax cuts during this difficult economy.

We feel this plan will help lower our deficit and help the middle class get a hand up.

I guess our perspective is completly different than yours.

 

[rayelias]

It's not silly, it's straight up STUPID. And certainly not a good way to run a business if you ask me!?

Really?!?

Why would a business owner risk money, time, effort into expanding a business, opening a new location, hiring new workers, if there is no or little reward?

There is little upside and huge downside risk.

Let's assume that a business owner expects a modest 10% return on capital investment. That means, they have to risk $1,000,000 in order to return a $100,000 profit. If extra $100k in income puts them in a higher tax bracket, the effective ROI is even less. Meaning that $1M investment might only return $50k. And that business owner stands to risk, not only the $1M investment, but also cash flow losses on top of that!

Would YOU risk $1M in cash in order to return $50k, AND also have the very real possibility of losing $600-$1M or more on top of that?!?

Yep. Punish the "rich" small-business owners. THAT'S the way to get the economy back on track.

 

[DawnCt1]

Dawn, if that works for you - go ahead. If you think your little money would hurt Obama knock yourself out. I'm sure he'll FEEL the pain. I'm going back to work, so maybe I'll get (or give) your part.

Nope, I am not going to participate in the recession either. I will "hurt" Obama by working for conservatives who may have a shred of hope of turning this montrous spendulous bill around.

 

[DawnCt1]

Sorry you feel that way.

I think the Stimulus Bill adds good incentives for many small businesses.

DH and I do NOT mind the Bush tax cut expiring if some of our increased tax money can help the middle class get tax cuts during this difficult economy.

We feel this plan will help lower our deficit and help the middle class get a hand up.

I guess our perspective is completly different than yours.

Under President Bush, if you worked, you got a tax cut. Now under Obama, if you don't work, you get a tax cut. Interesting math. We have more than done our share, and paid our share, but if you feel you haven't, write an extra check to the IRS and send it in. They will be happy to accept it on your behalf.

 

[Reah Bourne]

The sad thing is that those very people he wants to tax will simply move their money and businesses overseas where they will be welcome with open arms and lower business taxes.

Then they will all be crying about outsourcing jobs. they do their best to chase the jobs away, and lament there are no jobs.

 

[rayelias]

OMG!!! I'm so glad you posted this. I wrote this in another thread. It is ridiculous to hear some of these complaints. Someone actually posted that they are considering making less money. I'm thinking okay - and that hurts Obama how? Sometimes I wonder if some of these posters are comedians.

It's not about hurting Obama.

What it means is that someone who is on the cusp (making $249k, for example) won't take the risk of increasing their income by expanding their business, hiring more workers, etc if there is no reward for doing so. (see previous post)

Why spend a ton of money, time, effort for a small chance of increasing your income, only to have it taxed at a higher rate, and there is no guarantee that your efforts will even result in returning more income?

 

[djm99]

Nope, I am not going to participate in the recession either. I will "hurt" Obama by working for conservatives who may have a shred of hope of turning this montrous spendulous bill around.

Your leader comedian Rush Limbaugh would be so proud. You use his language so profoundly.

 

[loco4dis]

Whatever. Then I guess that Microsoft doesn't fund any of its product development, since all of their money for that comes from its customers.

The point is that government activities benefit the private sector in any number of ways, by doing things that could not, or would not, be done by the private sector alone. It is a symbiotic relationship.

Until it isn't anymore. Until the amount the government takes overwhelms the amount the private sector produces. Then all symbiosis is gone, servitude to the government moves in, and every one loses. That's the point.

You seem to see the world as divided into "us" and "them". Those dividends come on the backs on NOT ONLY those in the private sector, but also those in the public sector. The person in the mailroom of IBM doesn't really generate wealth, either, but supplies a supporting role for a company that does. I'm not disagreeing with you that we need to support private enterprise. However, I can tell you that in Canada most small business owners pay significantly less tax than my DH and I do when they earn the same income. I was under the impression that similar conditions exist in the States.

And, as for ALL OF THE MONEY COMING FROM THE PRIVATE SECTOR, I would beg to differ. I would say that all of the money came from selling the natural resources our countries (run by our governments) have provided us with. That money has then been used by both the private and public sector to generate more wealth.

Classic projection. The "us" versus "them" folks are those who believe our country should soak the producers to benefit the non-producers. For the record, I "see the world" as a place where the individual should be free to work and accumulate all the wealth he chooses to accumulate, unfettered by government intrusion.

 

[minnie61650]

Under President Bush, if you worked, you got a tax cut. Now under Obama, if you don't work, you get a tax cut. Interesting math. We have more than done our share, and paid our share, but if you feel you haven't, write an extra check to the IRS and send it in. They will be happy to accept it on your behalf.

And who is to say we haven't sent an extra check?

Well , to tell the truth we haven't sent an extra check but since we do not claim our full deductables I guess we can say we do give extra to the IRS.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[djm99]

It's not about hurting Obama.

What it means is that someone who is on the cusp (making $249k, for example) won't take the risk of increasing their income by expanding their business, hiring more workers, etc if there is no reward for doing so. (see previous post)

Why spend a ton of money, time, effort for a small chance of increasing your income, only to have it taxed at a higher rate, and there is no guarantee that your efforts will even result in returning more income?

Again, if making less works for you, knock yourself out.

 

[minnie61650]

Again, if making less works for you, knock yourself out.

Yes, I guess some would rather make less to spite the government instead of seeing what their full protential might be.

 

[DawnCt1]

And who is to say we haven't sent an extra check?

Well , to tell the truth we haven't sent an extra check but since we do not claim our full deductables I guess we can say we do give extra to the IRS.

Just my 2 cents.

That's down right generous of you! We claim all of ours. We feel we are generous enough.

 

[DancingBear]

Let's say that a person could work a little overtime or the wife could go back to work and earn just enough to move into the next tax bracket. Would they choose to do that? What gain does it give them if the little extra money is just taken in tax?... But now the tax is for an even lower amount of pay. So people will look at what they earn and try to move downward to the lower bracket thus paying less in tax and working less in hours. Most people would choose to work less hours to bring home the same amount or more after taxes. I think many people are already trying to figure out the break even point.

I think many are concerned that as people adjust work hours/pay and the tax revenue falls, the administration will again lower the bracket to keep tax dollars coming in at a required level and it will be continuous circle where no one gets ahead.

Do you understand how marginal tax rates work? For a couple that has taxable income of over $250,000, Obama's plan will take an additional 3 cents from every ADDITIONAL taxable dollar that couple earns over the $250,000. The amount of taxes they pay on the first $250,000 doesn't change at all. How many people do you think will choose not to make an additional $10,000 because they'll have to pay $300 more to the federal government?

 

[NYDisGuy]

Really?!?

Why would a business owner risk money, time, effort into expanding a business, opening a new location, hiring new workers, if there is no or little reward?

There is little upside and huge downside risk.

Let's assume that a business owner expects a modest 10% return on capital investment. That means, they have to risk $1,000,000 in order to return a $100,000 profit. If extra $100k in income puts them in a higher tax bracket, the effective ROI is even less. Meaning that $1M investment might only return $50k. And that business owner stands to risk, not only the $1M investment, but also cash flow losses on top of that!

Would YOU risk $1M in cash in order to return $50k, AND also have the very real possibility of losing $600-$1M or more on top of that?!?

Yep. Punish the "rich" small-business owners. THAT'S the way to get the economy back on track.

What do you mean here? Why are you reducing your ROI by 50%?

 

[momto2girls]

I don't think some want to see the total affect this will have on the amount of money to government has to spend.

Let's say that a person could work a little overtime or the wife could go back to work and earn just enough to move into the next tax bracket. Would they choose to do that? What gain does it give them if the little extra money is just taken in tax? That has always been the case when making finical decisions for a household.

But now the tax is for an even lower amount of pay. So people will look at what they earn and try to move downward to the lower bracket thus paying less in tax and working less in hours. Most people would choose to work less hours to bring home the same amount or more after taxes. I think many people are already trying to figure out the break even point.

I think many are concerned that as people adjust work hours/pay and the tax revenue falls, the administration will again lower the bracket to keep tax dollars coming in at a required level and it will be continuous circle where no one gets ahead.

 

[Mamiamjo]

I have never in my life hated paying taxes as much as I do now. NEVER.

(Tag Fairy, can you make this my tag please?)

Wow, I can't believe that worked!

Tag Fairy, can you make that my tag?

 

[ntsammy5]

Does anyone like taxes?