Fastpass return or replacement?

I don't see myself paying for fast passes unless the price of gate admission is reduced to somewhat balance things out. I know that would never happen. Sadly, that probably means we just would not go anymore, or far less often. The value would just not be there anymore.... tipping point achieved. Just makes me sad. Like many others, we love FP+ and know how to use it to maximize our fun. All this conjecture, and no facts from Disney is just making this worse. Hey Disney - just bring back FP+ as it was... no need to fix what wasn't broken.
 
A lot of people on here are fans of the old fp system.

Mostly because it's what they are currently most familiar with, have adapted their mindset and behavior to, and have priced in the cost of (and no, the old FP+ implementation was never "free" - it had a real dollar cost and additional costs in time and inconvenience).

It will be annoying to learn the ins and outs of whatever new system that is debuted, but should also have distinct benefits in terms of time savings and price transparency.

Frankly, I'm all for it. Just give it to us straight without all the BS, please.
 
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People are still going in massive numbers and spending the money without FP. Disney doesn’t need to bring it back. It’s not hurting them.
they are because a lot have money to burn right now, they are understanding of the need for changes in the parks because of Covid, and they havent traveled in awhile.

Without Covid, I know for a fact my family would not have traveled to Disney in June without fastpasses. We understood why they didnt have them at the time, and we were understanding.
 
Every had the opportunity to maximize the potential of FP+ it wasn't a secret. So if it was detrimental to some people it's because they didn't research it and tbh whenever I spend that kind of money on anything I research it because I need to know what I'm spendingy money on. You don't go and throw down 5000 on a used vehicle before researching it and doing your due diligence either. So for everyone it is maximizing the potental of FP+.

The aspect of who it does and doesn’t benefit is probably not driving the change - otherwise they would have just made changes to the existing system. If they go to a paid plan it it all about increasing revenue. COVID shutdown was the perfect event to put an end to the current fp
system without having the messy situation of some guests in the parks with fastpasses and others there on the same day unable to get them or taking away already booked fastpasses.
 
While the line length vs speed vs wait time explain how slower standby lines don't extend wait times, it doesn't completely explain why. Here is my best guess on why wait times don't change that much.

Most users will perform a Enjoyment vs. Wait analysis on everything they come across. They look at the wait time and decide;

Is it worth to ride this ride at the cost of the wait time posted on the sign?

This analysis is often performed without any regard to whether there is a Fastpass line or not and the decision is likely the same. For example, a user approaches SDMT, sees a posted wait of 90 minutes and decides not to ride. Here are some potential justifications;
  • I don't wait over an hour for any ride.
  • I am a thrill ride person. If I am going to wait over an hour it is going to be for a mountain coaster, not some kiddie coaster.
  • Look, my phone says if we walk a little further BTMRR has a 17 minute wait. I would rather wait 17 minutes on BTMRR and the do other rides than spend 90 minutes in line for SDMT.
  • My touring plan says if we wait 2 hours the line for SDMT will likely drop to 70 minutes.
You see the impact of these decisions impact how the lines grow in the park every day. As more people enter the park the lines grow quickly at first and then their growth start to slow as less and less people see value in jumping in a lengthy standby line. I would imagine if there were no limits of closing time and guests, eventually there becomes a point where so few people see value in waiting that long that it just won't get any longer. They also tour this way regardless of whether their are Fastpass+ lines in place or not. I suspect the first one, "I don't wait over an hour for any ride" is a fairly common evaluation criteria. As most lines for a ride start hitting an hour, the slow considerably and users start extending other rides until others approach an hour.

Therefore, while Fastpass slows the speed of the Standby line, the actual wait times of rides are typically regulated by this value calculation more than they are impacted by Fastpass (thus shorter standby lines with Fastpass). Once rides start hitting an hour, their growth will slow and people will go on to other things. Therefore the Fastpass may impact which individual's ride something, but they may not necessarily extend a standby line's wait time that much.

I suspect every time a user arrives at a ride they want to ride, and then declines to ride because it failed the Wait vs. Enjoyment value calculation, it is a dissatisfier. One or two rides, won't make a huge difference in the guests day, but as more and more calculations fail, the guest's frustration grows until they declare, the park a disaster. At that point the park hoppers jump, the multi-day guests start debating pool time, and the day guests get angry and go home complaining about the waits and feeling ripped off.

Perfect explanation of how I tour the parks and what gets me grumpy.
 
People are still going in massive numbers and spending the money without FP. Disney doesn’t need to bring it back. It’s not hurting them.
I suspect your thinking mirrors Disney’s. But I also wonder whether it’s correct. Yes, in the short run, pandemic-battered guests are willing to endure serious unpleasantness to get out of the house and back to their happy place. (Especially given the high cost of cancellation for many people.) But how many of these people are being turned off from Disney by their summer experience? How many won’t be coming back? How many will share negative impressions with future would-be guests?

I think the jury’s still out on that. (Truly. Disney may well be accurate in its calculation that people will endure just about anything in this unprecedented moment, and won’t hold anything against the company. But they might also be wrong. I guess that’s up to us.)
 
Not to me though. When you say you maximize the potential of the fuel performance of your car, that affects only you. There is a critical piece that is missing from that, which is that for FP+, although you are maximizing it for yourself, it is often to the detriment of the average Disney visitor. You may not see it that way, but its a critical component to why they are changing it.
But it wasn’t really. Fp’s were out there for anyone and everyone to pick up. Availability constantly changed throughout the day as people canceled plans/switched parks, etc…. Someone picking up an additional fp was not affecting the average .Disney visitor if they chose not to utilize fp. The fp would be picked up by someone.

I think they’re changing it simply to make money. I have a feeling it’s going to be virtually the same system, just with a price tag.
 
That's a big IF. TP doesn't have much data to work with now and I think everything is off kilter because of the people rushing back into vacations. My observations on my past trip in Jan is that Disney was way off on wait times. Not sure if intentional or not but many were off half or better than advertised. It struck me as off when a ride was posted 45 min getting on in 15. I'm not doubting your logic but with the 50th starting in Oct I think it's a lot harder to predict crowds and what not. After my trip next week I don't plan to go to late Jan when I think things should be back to whatever the new normal is.

I totally hear you on that. I do think the app has exaggerated wait times even before COVID, though. It’s better than wait times being worse than advertised!
 
So in the Merch post from The Dis looks like there is a new mug that says "I need a fastpass to Friday". I find it unlikely they would release such an item if it was not returning at all. Maybe I am reading too much into this but I at least find it an encouraging sign :-)

https://www.wdwinfo.com/disney-merc...JgG1FzVqNtVOLnZSzlwS869fwxw-OJzdiddiQxGLti_1o

Your post made me imagine myself clutching that mug while crying to Guest Services … “but you made a fast pass mug! How could you NOT bring back fast pass?!”
 
i definitely do think something is going to be announced very soon. if old fastpass was a 60 day schedule, August 2nd is that day for anniversary goers to get it squared away. and as it has been echoed a bajilion times on here they could work out the kinks

lets be honest, every time Disney releases something new in their system it crashes and theres' a lot of headaches so i'm sure they are patiently waiting so that they are 99% confident in what they are releasing will work
 
it's also going to be funny if they do come back with the FP+ system with little to no changes. i'm not sure i can see that happening, but after a lot of people (myself included) have gotten worked up over a potential to pay for something that we don't even know how it would work, it would be awfully hilarious if disney just puts the FP+ back online
 
Not to me though. When you say you maximize the potential of the fuel performance of your car, that affects only you. There is a critical piece that is missing from that, which is that for FP+, although you are maximizing it for yourself, it is often to the detriment of the average Disney visitor. You may not see it that way, but its a critical component to why they are changing it.

I see your point, but don’t think that’s an applicable analogy. Let use Disney ADRs as a comparison. I Used to make all of my ADRs for all the good restaurants at 7am on the 180-day mark so that I could get the reservation I want before others do. Others have the same opportunity as me to do the same but they choose not to. But I got all the good reservations and others may not have gotten what they wanted.

Every Disney guest had the same opportunity to maximize FP. People like me chose to do it and others did not. By your logic I should only make 2 or 3 ADRs at the 180-day mark and then wait until I get on-site to make the rest. This way I give everyone else a chance to book their ADRs before I load up. But that’s not the playing field that Disney set-up. Same with Fastpass.

I understand Disney is now attempting to change the playing field and that is fine. But whatever they set-up, anyone who follows the rules of what they set-up and chooses to maximize the benefits of the new program is not gaming the system - they are maximizing the benefits of the system.
 
What is interesting about Paris is that they did send the news about Premier Access starting on the 5th of August to fansites. However, there is nothing about the entire pass on the website, their social media pages haven't mentioned it the latest news either. And I haven't received anything about it in their regular or AP newsletter.

DLP is always extremely slow with their communication, but that there is not even a mention on the website... that is surprising.

All the information about fastpasses did get removed from the website.
 
So - I am not sure why, but the previous Fastpass thread got shutdown. Let’s try to keep this one on topic to avoid the same fate for this thread.

I have an upcoming trip in mid-august and I am dreading this trip without some sort of FP. We reviewed our trip itinerary this evening during dinner and I could tell everyone in our family was anxious about this trip. I had to have my three kids choose their highest priority rides at each park and we discussed how we would do those at rope drop, but that we would not be able to everything we normally do. This was certainly disappointing given this is our first trip in over 1.5 years (we usually go to WDW 2 or 3 times per year).

Of course my children asked, “Why did Disney take away FP?”. We had a discussion about profits and supply & demand. The best response was from my 9-y/o who said “why don’t they just raise the ticket prices and keep FP the way it was if they want more money?” Honestly, I didn’t have a good answer.

Is there any hope that we will hear something about FP this week? At this point I think it’s unlikely but I’m holding out hope.

Let’s keep the return of FP discussion going!

I think it got moved to the community board because discussion drifted to social distancing, etc. You might find info here.
 
But it wasn’t really. Fp’s were out there for anyone and everyone to pick up. Availability constantly changed throughout the day as people canceled plans/switched parks, etc…. Someone picking up an additional fp was not affecting the average .Disney visitor if they chose not to utilize fp. The fp would be picked up by someone.

I think they’re changing it simply to make money. I have a feeling it’s going to be virtually the same system, just with a price tag.

Its an interesting question. My gut says they implemented Fastpass+ as a satisfier to give a wider range of users access to popular rides. They probably wanted to ensure more users reported a better experience when they returned from the trip. They want more users to feel comfortable to browse shops knowing that a fast pass is coming soon. I doubt they built FP+ so power users could get 12 short rides a day.

While I don't think they will aggressively go after that group, I would not be shocked if they decide "unlimited" short wait rides should include a price tag. If you get 2-3 Fastpass free and then it is 9.99 for every FP pass after that, it would likely curtail most power users from getting an endless stream of Fastpasses. Some maybe happy of forking over an extra $100 per day for fast passes, but most will not. The Fastpasses that become available by a decrease of demand would now become available to be purchased by those who are not so diligently pounding the phone but are willing to commit financial resources to get them.

In short, I would not be shocked if the power user is one of the "losers" of any paid/hybrid system.
 
I see your point, but don’t think that’s an applicable analogy. Let use Disney ADRs as a comparison. I Used to make all of my ADRs for all the good restaurants at 7am on the 180-day mark so that I could get the reservation I want before others do. Others have the same opportunity as me to do the same but they choose not to. But I got all the good reservations and others may not have gotten what they wanted.

Every Disney guest had the same opportunity to maximize FP. People like me chose to do it and others did not. By your logic I should only make 2 or 3 ADRs at the 180-day mark and then wait until I get on-site to make the rest. This way I give everyone else a chance to book their ADRs before I load up. But that’s not the playing field that Disney set-up. Same with Fastpass.

I understand Disney is now attempting to change the playing field and that is fine. But whatever they set-up, anyone who follows the rules of what they set-up and chooses to maximize the benefits of the new program is not gaming the system - they are maximizing the benefits of the system.

Remember that not everyone books 180 days out. Is it good for Disney if deluxe guests who book less than 180 days out can’t get any reservations at nicer restaurants? My prediction is that Disney will move to a dynamic crm system in the near future. Once such a system is powered with adequate data it can make very accurate decisions on which experiences to offer to which customers based on which guests are most important to the company and the changing availability of said experiences over time. It removes the cut and dry deluxe resort guests get x, value guests get y etc. Such a system could even be used to give free fastpasses to the most profitable guests in a dynamic basis. Such systems a not transparent and will consider a multitude of guest behaviors to make predictions so there will be no way for guests to learn how to game them.
 
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