Fastpass Enforcement coming?

[origin62]

Actually it doesn't say that. It says, "PLEASE [emphasis added] return between *time* and *time.*




Extemely poor analogy. Those who use them late do not throw their "zebra domes" away. They simply "eat" them later. This actually ensures that they do NOT get wasted.

Under the NEW guidelines of not allowing late returns, FPs are MORE likely to get wasted. People will get a FP, intending to make it back, but if they don't they'll have to throw them away.

I hope that when the next-gen FP gets rolled out, we can select the time we want. Then those of who want to use a FP later in the day can select that time and not have to justify ourselves to the FP moral police.

I understand chmurf's perspective, and you, magicbob, have actually made his point for him.

Your host (Disney), has politely asked that you comply with a house rule. You, as their guest, have chosen to disregard their request, and do what you like instead. Because you are their Guest, Disney has, in the past, chosen to look the other way. By no means does this condone your behavior, and their house rule remains in effect. This, I think, is why some people have a problem with the practice of late returns.

The Zebra dome comparison does work (sort of). Your Boma reservation is at 7:00, but you arrive at 7:45, eat dessert at 8:45, and hoard a large share of the Domes. His reservation is at 7:45, but when he goes to get Domes, the platter is empty. More will arrive, but now he has to wait for the kitchen to prepare and serve more domes.

Of course, if you no-show for Boma, there are more Domes for everyone else to enjoy. Hopefully you canceled in advance and avoided the $10 charge.

 

[Mich Mouse]

I bet if you returned a short time later when a different CM was there, they would have let you in. Most cases of late FP refusal appears to be more of a CM not following the documented procedures than an operational change. There are instances that an attraction manager can direct the CMs to refuse, but I haven't heard any reliable reports of that having actually happened in years.

The information on the change was originally posted to a reliable web site, but it appears they got it from a CM who got it from internal information. Other CMs confirmed, and another memo went out to all CMs a couple days ago.

Here's a reliable report-The attraction manager wouldn't allow us in. After the greeter CM refused us, we asked to speak to the manager. He was very nice, but would not allow us in. We were polite in return as well. We were leaving the next morning- didn't make a difference.

 

[going/again]

Simple example: assume a certain attraction can accomodate 100 riders/hour. In a 10 hour day without breakdowns, that attraction will churn through 1000 riders. Now assume that a maximum of 200 Fastpasses are handed out that day

There is no difference if all 200 FP holders showed up an hour before park closing versus spreading that 200 out over the day.

I may be off base here, but those are my guesses.

If only 100 per hour as you used in your example, two things spring to mind where do the other 100 fast passers go, and what happens to the 100/200 already waiting in the standby line are they told bad look you cant go on?

 

[KellyNY]

I am one who doesn't want to waste my vacation time watching a clock or watching the FP machine scroll forward to a convenient return time.

On the flip side, I also have no problems waiting the 5 minutes behind a family with an expired fastpass.

Maybe because if it came down to it, I see letting a family (who otherwise would be denied access) have the chance to experience an attraction as a better use of my time.

I hate wasting my time on stupid things, wasting my time to do something nice for someone else, that's OK.

So, now we down to guilting. So all those kids and all people with disabilities who is in line at that moment and maybe in a same situation with you, and do not forget that most of them are considering it is Disney and not Vegas, suppose to be happy that you found a trick and they suppose to feel compassion while you feel no compassion to them and their needs, wasting their time. When you use late FP you make decision for them and ignore their situation.

 

[doconeill]

Here's a reliable report-The attraction manager wouldn't allow us in. After the greeter CM refused us, we asked to speak to the manager. He was very nice, but would not allow us in. We were polite in return as well. We were leaving the next morning- didn't make a difference.

I don't necessarily know that the manager called is necessarily the attraction manager (I do not know the structure of such things), and there have been plenty of reports in the past that if they call a "manager" that person seems to back up the CM in most cases...yet there hasn't been a single report I've seen in several years where if you came back later with a different CM, they weren't let in.

But perhaps you came across one of those extremely rare instances where they really did stop it. I'm surprised we didn't get more reports about it.

 

[MELSMICE]

\Your host (Disney), has politely asked that you comply with a house rule. You, as their guest, have chosen to disregard their request, and do what you like instead. Because you are their Guest, Disney has, in the past, chosen to look the other way. By no means does this condone your behavior, and their house rule remains in effect. This, I think, is why some people have a problem with the practice of late returns.

Ignoring and/or allowing is condoning the behavior.

 

[coopersmom]

Here is the quote from Cheshire Figment



He says that it will save Disney money if people with expired FPs don't get in the line at the end of the day. He knows what he is talking about and he specifically mentions not just the CM at the attraction in question, but Custodial, Greeters at the Gate, Security, etc.



When they eliminate those extra long lines and extra time from ride operations, but they still let me linger 2 hours in the world showcase, or shopping on main street- then there is no net savings when it comes to custodial, greeters at the gate, etc.

If one of the reasons that they are eliminating late FP usage is because they want to save money in CM pay at the end of the day, they aren't going to be able to do so if I'm still in the park shopping. That is why I am concerned.

That person may have been told something along those lines, but that's a patently bogus idea on its face. First off, Disney World parks NEVER "close" ... Yes, they close to guests, but (paid) staffers come and go 24 hours a day. It would actually take a great deal of work to ever find a moment, forget about a significant chunk of time, at Disney World that any park was completely "empty." Maintenance, janitorial, prep work, decoration, gardening, etc. ... All go on throughout the night. Every night. 365 days per year.

At any attraction/position, Cast Members shifts overlap to allow some to leave while others stay, and every single attraction is staffed with the idea that Cast Members will be on the clock well before, and long after, park closing. Schedules are set up that way to prep and/or shut down the ride.

Second, and most germane to this discussion, there is nothing stopping all those "late FastPass holders" who may be denied FastPass access from just getting into the standby line for the same ride, with the net effect of the ride's total operating time being exactly the same. Disney allows anyone to get in line, FastPass or standby, up until the park closes--and sometimes even encourages it with Cast Members calling out to park guests and offering 'one more ride'--and guarantees all in line will ride.

So, the idea that this is to finish up more quickly is absolutely ridiculous, not only for the reasons already stated, but also because Disney also allows people to shop, dine and wander the park, even if they don't allow them on the attractions, for long after a park's official closing time. You would have to spend more than two hours in a closed park before anyone even STARTED to sweep you out, assuming you weren't causing a ruckus, or doing anything else (trying to get backstage, etc.) prevented by Disney. (The exception to this would be when the park closes for another event, be it private or hard ticket, and then sweeps begin almost immediately.)

The truth is that the end of operating hours is THE most lightly-attended segment of the day at virtually every park, all year long. And since you have to be IN the park to use your "expired" FastPass, and most people no longer are, the effect on ride end times isn't just negligible, it's nonexistent. If you're IN the park and get in line at, or just prior to, closing, you can ride, period. FastPass or standby line, there's zero difference in actual use. It's not as if people with FastPasses were given special access to closed lines; or the ride operators were "waiting" for all FastPasses to be redeemed before shutting down for the day.

You could argue that fewer people would stay in the park if they weren't holding a FastPass but there wouldn't be any data yet to back that up and Disney isn't in the business of driving guests OUT of their parks at any time of the day (or night), so that would be a negative, not a positive, for the company.

I'd say it's far more likely (since we've done it) that you get a FastPass, thinking you'll still be around, and then never use it because you petered out and headed home long before the start time came around.

 

[origin62]

Ignoring and/or allowing is condoning the behavior.

That's the part you pick up on? The point, that I apparently did not make clear enough, is that the Guest is deliberately disregarding the host's request in order to satisfy themselves.

Behold, the reason for the morality/propriety debate.

 

[MELSMICE]

That's the part you pick up on? The point, that I apparently did not make clear enough, is that the Guest is deliberately disregarding the host's request in order to satisfy themselves.

Behold, the reason for the morality/propriety debate.

I guess I "picked up on it" because I posted this on the previous page (post #1114)

I have never felt that I was breaking any moral rules by returning for my FP time later than intended, especially when told by CM's that I could do that. I certainly wasn't trying to sneak past someone. It was allowed........I did it.

Quote Originally posted by MELSMICE:

I got that vibe too. Like we're really trying to pull a fast one on Disney. Disney has allowed this! The CM's have never said you couldn't enter after your time. In fact, they have been forthcoming with the fact that you CAN enter after your time has "expired" on your FP.

So, really, how were we in the wrong in doing something that was allowed?

I'm not sure if enforcement is the "real" issue, but it certainly is a huge part of the issue, at least on this thread. They have not enforced what they claim is their policy.

Hate to open this can of worms, but...........it's like the refillable mugs debate. Disney has allowed people to use old mugs by not saying anything to stop it for years. They are finally addressing this issue.

Hasn't anyone heard "if you say nothing then you are condoning the behavior and accepting it"?

Five in a room that is meant for 4 guests........don't say anything & it's acceptable to the person doing it.

Say your child is under 2 so they don't need an admission ticket & not have to show proof, when in fact, they are 3 & should be paying for entrance. Do nothing about this and you are condoning and accepting of this.

Not showing up for ADR's & leaving a table empty........no penalty & it's OK to do that. They are now addressing this also.

Right or wrong, you can't "allow" something & then when you decide to change it not expect people to be upset about it.

 

[WillAustin]

That's the part you pick up on? The point, that I apparently did not make clear enough, is that the Guest is deliberately disregarding the host's request in order to satisfy themselves.

Behold, the reason for the morality/propriety debate.

But you leave out the part where asking a CM if you can use a FP outside the window, 99.99% of the time, gets you the answer that they are good until the park closes. I've asked more times than I can count, over multiple years and parks, and that is the only answer I've ever received. Not, we will let you through, but next time pay attention to the time window. Always, they are good until the park closes.

Anyone will have a hard time convincing me that the change has anything to do with the usage patterns of people using FPs late. They have been allowing it for so long. The coming system is the principal reason for the change.

 

[larryz]

What struck me is a number of people stating that they cannot waste their vacation time to look at the clock or even wait few minutes to get the right FP, while I guess it is totally fine to waste my vacation time when they delay my experience or other people experience including sleepy kids.
I am not buying, my kid needed a nap excuse because we are talking about Disney, almost every family has a kid or someone with special needs or life just happens, so how come someone feels it is OK to waste someones else time, someone in a same boat?

They're Disney's parks, and they're Disney's rules. If you want to enforce their FP rules so badly, I'm sure Central Casting has a job waiting for you. You'll get plenty of opportunity after March 7th.

In the meantime, if you want to post your cell phone number, I'm sure there are plenty of folks who would be happy to call you and let you know when they're going to use a FP out of the window, so you won't be personally inconvenienced...

 

[larryz]

Behold, the reason for the morality/propriety debate.

Propriety - Noun - conformity to established standards of good or proper behavior or manners. (dictionary.com)

The established standard of behavior for CMs until March 7th is "if a guest shows up late, let them use their FP."

 

[origin62]

I guess I "picked up on it" because I posted this on the previous page (post #1114)

I have never felt that I was breaking any moral rules by returning for my FP time later than intended, especially when told by CM's that I could do that. I certainly wasn't trying to sneak past someone. It was allowed........I did it.

I don't think you're an immoral person for using FPs beyond the intended time, and I don't disagree with some of your other observations.

I'm just saying that part of the debate on this subject is rooted in the fact that some people choose to ignore Disney's request, and then absolve themselves of all personal responsibility for it because Disney doesn't call them out.

I think that Disney has unintentionally created this (probably unexpected) situation by not enforcing the rules in the past. It's obvious to everyone how the system is intended to work. Some people elect to do otherwise. It's that choice that gets people riled.

 

[origin62]

They're Disney's parks, and they're Disney's rules. If you want to enforce their FP rules so badly, I'm sure Central Casting has a job waiting for you. You'll get plenty of opportunity after March 7th.

In the meantime, if you want to post your cell phone number, I'm sure there are plenty of folks who would be happy to call you and let you know when they're going to use a FP out of the window, so you won't be personally inconvenienced...

Wow. Angry much?

 

[doconeill]

I don't think you're an immoral person for using FPs beyond the intended time, and I don't disagree with some of your other observations.

I'm just saying that part of the debate on this subject is rooted in the fact that some people choose to ignore Disney's request, and then absolve themselves of all personal responsibility for it because Disney doesn't call them out.

I think that Disney has unintentionally created this (probably unexpected) situation by not enforcing the rules in the past. It's obvious to everyone how the system is intended to work. Some people elect to do otherwise. It's that choice that gets people riled.

What about the CMs who actively encouraged it? Is it wrong of me to use the FP the way the CM told me to?

And it wasn't so much Disney creating the situation by not enforcing - they specifically told CMs to accept them.

 

[chmurf]

There are double standards on this thread.

Some argue that they NEED late FPs because of this and that, like cranky kids, or things breaking down, or whatever.
So they need to get as many FPs to make their time worth it.

But early on this thread, we talked about those guests who couldn't make it to the FP machines before FPs run out.
And the same late FP users almost all replied "too bad for them, they had to plan and come in earlier" ... what happened to the cranky kid or the broken car or traffic jam or whatever ?
No those who come in too late to the parks have no excuse, but those who came up early and who have already got FPs need to be shielded from every mishap known to a theme park guest

There are double standards. Getting a FP gives you rights the average guest is not entitled to, just because you were lucky enough to get a FP.

That's another sad side of the story, and while it does not change anything to the subject it's still sad to notice how people would think they are so much better than others.

There was a similar discussion either here or on a french board dealing about how AP holders seemed to feel superior to regular guests.

I am one who doesn't want to waste my vacation time watching a clock or watching the FP machine scroll forward to a convenient return time.

As was earlier said DLRP enforces the FP return time, and guests comply. And I can guarantee you that we're not wasting our time looking at clocks. The whole thing is pretty relaxed and straightforward. And as a matter of fact there is much less stress using DLRP's system than overplanning like some do in WDW

What we see here is a bunch of people who have a pretty good idea of how many times they have to ride a ride, and the order in which they should do their ride, eat, and even go to the toilets (as I presume)
Meanwhile, here in Paris, we just enjoy our day in the parks (and don't tell me about how expensive going to WDW is, because DLRP is far more expensive - $4 for a small fries at Casey's, gives you the general idea)

Planning is a good thing, but overplanning will only lead to disapointment if something does not go according to plan.

I've been 25 to 30 times to DLRP in 2011, always with the "no late return FP" policy. Each time the experience was different and great.
It's only my opinion, (and I respect other people's opinion) but to me, overplanning is a waste of time before and a waste of fun during the stay.

It's true that we live in a world where you want (and need) to get as much as possible for your hardly earned bucks. But is that the idea of fun ? no, I think that's the idea of "return on investment" and this is really considerations I want to leave at the office when I go on vacations.

 

[tink70]

Propriety - Noun - conformity to established standards of good or proper behavior or manners. (dictionary.com)

The established standard of behavior for CMs until March 7th is "if a guest shows up late, let them use their FP."

So if we ALL show up late, or not at the correct time, doesn't that kind of change the way the fastpass works?


I think they allowed a few exceptions, and it went out of control, and now needs to be changed. Just because something is allowed, or exceptions are made does it mean everyone has to do it?

 

[WilsonFlyer]

What I find really funny is the fact that we (Yes. I included myself.) continue to discuss this at all.

The question is moot and the facts are what they are.

FP return times will apparently begin being stringently enforced beginning March 7, 2012, within the parameters already outlined on numerous occasions within this thread.

And that be the end of that.

Please continue.

 

[icc2515]

Second, and most germane to this discussion, there is nothing stopping all those "late FastPass holders" who may be denied FastPass access from just getting into the standby line for the same ride, with the net effect of the ride's total operating time being exactly the same. Disney allows anyone to get in line, FastPass or standby, up until the park closes--and sometimes even encourages it with Cast Members calling out to park guests and offering 'one more ride'--and guarantees all in line will ride.

So, the idea that this is to finish up more quickly is absolutely ridiculous, not only for the reasons already stated, but also because Disney also allows people to shop, dine and wander the park, even if they don't allow them on the attractions, for long after a park's official closing time. You would have to spend more than two hours in a closed park before anyone even STARTED to sweep you out, assuming you weren't causing a ruckus, or doing anything else (trying to get backstage, etc.) prevented by Disney.

The truth is that the end of operating hours is THE most lightly-attended segment of the day at virtually every park, all year long. And since you have to be IN the park to use your "expired" FastPass, and most people no longer are, the effect on ride end times isn't just negligible, it's nonexistent. If you're IN the park and get in line at, or just prior to, closing, you can ride any ride you want anyway. FastPass or standby line, there's zero difference in actual use.

You could argue that fewer people would stay in the park if they weren't holding a FastPass but there wouldn't be any data yet to back that up and Disney isn't in the business of driving guests OUT of their parks at any time of the day (or night), so that would be negative, not a positive, for the company.

I would have to agree with these points completely. When we go during peak times and the MK is open till midnight or 2:00am the park is virtually empty a half hour to and hour before close. You can almost walk on any ride you wish. My family and I have ridden more rides between 1am and 2am than the entire afternoon and evening combined. I am sure this new policy will make more money for Disney in the end, but not by emptying people out of the park sooner.

Now I do think that this is a precursor to them saving a lot of labor. I think that they are going to do away with the fast pass personnel at the entrance to the fast pass lane. When everybody has a wristband I think that they will just have a turnstile you wave your wristband and it will either say valid and let you in or expired or something else and not let you in. They are probably testing this 5 mins before and 15 mins after thing right now to see how people react. If they put in automated turnstiles you can complain all you want to the machine and it does not care. Weren't they testing some RF automated turnstile at Epcot for admission not too long ago? I mean they are reportedly spending a billion dollars on this Nextgen thing. The money has to go somewhere, and putting new turnstiles at every fastpass location and linking them all together would probably be pretty expensive.

 

[KellyNY]

They're Disney's parks, and they're Disney's rules. If you want to enforce their FP rules so badly, I'm sure Central Casting has a job waiting for you. You'll get plenty of opportunity after March 7th.

In the meantime, if you want to post your cell phone number, I'm sure there are plenty of folks who would be happy to call you and let you know when they're going to use a FP out of the window, so you won't be personally inconvenienced...

WOW, should I also post my location so any other angry person could come and kick me because we have different opinions?

What with this angry attitude?