Fastpass Enforcement coming?

[d1gitman]

WOW, should I also post my location so any other angry person could come and kick me because we have different opinions?

What with this angry attitude?

they must be a Patriots fan....

 

[coopersmom]

Now I do think that this is a precursor to them saving a lot of labor. I think that they are going to do away with the fast pass personnel at the entrance to the fast pass lane. When everybody has a wristband I think that they will just have a turnstile you wave your wristband and it will either say valid and let you in or expired or something else and not let you in. They are probably testing this 5 mins before and 15 mins after thing right now to see how people react. If they put in automated turnstiles you can complain all you want to the machine and it does not care. Weren't they testing some RF automated turnstile at Epcot for admission not too long ago? I mean they are reportedly spending a billion dollars on this Nextgen thing. The money has to go somewhere, and putting new turnstiles at every fastpass location and linking them all together would probably be pretty expensive.

I agree that this a good guess of what they hope to implement BUT, as I may have already said earlier (forgive me if I'm repeating myself), given the prevalence of Cast Members manning the automatic FastPass distribution machines, as well as the theoretically fully automatic entry gates, etc. I think the labor cost savings is far more in theory (i.e. on some corporate balance sheet somewhere) than actual.

That's not to say I can't envision ways the new NexGen system could dramatically improve guest experiences, but I have my doubts it will actually significantly lower the number of Cast Members Disney needs, or thinks it needs, to run its parks.

I'm amongst those who think it makes the most sense that this new policy/enforcement IS a precursor to something new in terms of FastPass/Xpass/NexGen/whatever-you-want-to-call-it but, until that new something is announced and then implemented, I think it's a quality of experience LOSS from what had been available to all guests, whether they knew about it, or will admit it, or not.

 

[KellyNY]

What about the CMs who actively encouraged it? Is it wrong of me to use the FP the way the CM told me to?

And it wasn't so much Disney creating the situation by not enforcing - they specifically told CMs to accept them.

And this is another way for uneducated, non diser to learn about info, btw.

For some reason they had time frame printed, so they meant for us to use it during this time and so when they were told to accept late FPs they were spreading magic since life happens. Basically it was inner info on how to deal with visitors that came out and yes CMs are responsible for that as well.

However, being late for 15 min is very different from being late for 5 hours. Collector has no intention to make it during printed time frame as suggested by many here. Collector intentionally breaks the rule and using exception or loophole, not because of situation that came out unexpectadly but because it is more convenient for him. Collector plan his day initially around loophole and not actual rule. It affects others and because of it, it is wrong.

 

[KellyNY]

they must be a Patriots fan....

You got it!

 

[mesaboy2]

And this is another way for uneducated, non diser to learn about info, btw.

For some reason they had time frame printed, so they meant for us to use it during this time and so when they were told to accept late FPs they were spreading magic since life happens. Basically it was inner info on how to deal with visitors that came out and yes CMs are responsible for that as well.

However, being late for 15 min is very different from being late for 5 hours. Collector has no intention to make it during printed time frame as suggested by many here. Collector intentionally breaks the rule and using exception or loophole, not because of situation that came out unexpectadly but because it is more convenient for him. Collector plan his day initially around loophole and not actual rule. It affects others and because of it, it is wrong.

doconeill has set me straight on the minor ripple any late FP user has. But since I'm a glutton for punishment, please explain to me the "very different" cases you cite above. Other than intent--which is no one else's beeswax--what is the difference?

 

[origin62]

But you leave out the part where asking a CM if you can use a FP outside the window, 99.99% of the time, gets you the answer that they are good until the park closes. I've asked more times than I can count, over multiple years and parks, and that is the only answer I've ever received. Not, we will let you through, but next time pay attention to the time window. Always, they are good until the park closes.

Anyone will have a hard time convincing me that the change has anything to do with the usage patterns of people using FPs late. They have been allowing it for so long. The coming system is the principal reason for the change.

I guess my question would be, why do you keep asking? You know how the system is intended to be used, so why would you ask over and over again?

If you keep asking police officers: "How fast can I drive in a 45mph zone?" They might say, "we'll let you go up to 50mph." But the speed limit is still 45. It's still your choice whether to drive 45 or 50.

 

[origin62]

What about the CMs who actively encouraged it? Is it wrong of me to use the FP the way the CM told me to?

And it wasn't so much Disney creating the situation by not enforcing - they specifically told CMs to accept them.

It's not for me to say if you are wrong or not. But even if a CM told you to use your FP anytime you like, it still says right on the ticket when you are expected to return.

I disagree with you though. I suspect that (circa 1998-99), Disney never anticipated that people would attempt to enter the attractions at a time other than indicated. I think they were unprepared for the pleas/arguments/excuses that guests presented to the greeter at the FP entrances. To make people happy and avoid confrontations, it was probably decided to let people through rather than arguing. I'm sure they never intended for Cast Members to share with guests that this was the case. Now, the practice is part of the culture in the parks, giving us much to discuss.

 

[baileybrad]

Fastpasses, as they exist, are actually a total failure.

One reason they were inaugurated was the expectation that instead of lining up for an attraction, people would go to food service or merchandise locations and spend money. However, after a year it was found that the only increase in sales was due to price increases and not an actual increase in volume.

Also, the Parks were designed with the expectation that (other than for parades and fireworks) a certain percentage of Guests would be in queues for the attractions at all times. Since the advent of the Fastpass, there are more people aimlessly wandering the Parks making them appear to be more crowded.

So if Disney were to totally eliminate the Fastpass, average waits for attractions would remain about the same or even go down, and the Parks would not appear to be as crowded.

It was always a way for Disney to make more money. I do believe that folks who are nothing but Disney kool-aid drinkers are going to be very bummed when the next-gen program is a way to put more cash in Disney's pocket. Disney loved to tout how the FP was not an extra charge and was open to everyone.

This will rank up there with charging additional money to buy tickets that don't expire. (Wasn't keeping the money for years enough?)

It seems that every move Disney makes causes our family to actually spend less money in their parks....remember when you could actually use the stand-by line to get a seat and see the Candlelight processional or you could actually make a restaurant reservation and get a seat a few days ahead of time. Deciding where I will be eating months out not happening, paying for a meal plan for the pleasure, definitely not happening.

We eat more and more meals off-property. If we are given the choice of paying to get "fast passes" or have to make a decision months in advance of what freaking ride to sign up for then my spouse will get their way, we will just cruise on RCCL more.

Silly me. I did not realize that the FP system was broken. I am now afraid that the Disney solution will involve some tiered approach that takes more money from families visiting the parks.

 

[KellyNY]

doconeill has set me straight on the minor ripple any late FP user has. But since I'm a glutton for punishment, please explain to me the "very different" cases you cite above. Other than intent--which is no one else's beeswax--what is the difference?

The difference is delay distributed more even when you late by 15 min and more visible when everyone is back from midday break and decide to use their FPs.

 

[KDilly]

I guess my question would be, why do you keep asking? You know how the system is intended to be used, so why would you ask over and over again?

If you keep asking police officers: "How fast can I drive in a 45mph zone?" They might say, "we'll let you go up to 50mph." But the speed limit is still 45. It's still your choice whether to drive 45 or 50.

I totally agree, Come on people.. Common sense...

-KD

 

[mesaboy2]

The difference is delay distributed more even when you late by 15 min and more visible when everyone is back from midday break and decide to use their FPs.

Clear as mud.

 

[larryz]

WOW, should I also post my location so any other angry person could come and kick me because we have different opinions?

What with this angry attitude?

I'll apologize for being snide about it; I'm not angry. I'm disappointed, that's all.

But if you believe my occasional FP use is a personal inconvenience, I'll be happy to call you 15 minutes before I intend to use it so you can rush right over and get in line before I do...

they must be a Patriots fan....

Try "Saints fan"...

 

[KellyNY]

Clear as mud.

What seems to be unclear? Maybe you can show me how 5 extra people infront of me delay me just as much as 20 extra people?

 

[KellyNY]

I'll apologize for being snide about it; I'm not angry. I'm disappointed, that's all.

But if you believe my occasional FP use is a personal inconvenience, I'll be happy to call you 15 minutes before I intend to use it so you can rush right over and get in line before I do...

Seriously, what with the attitude?

 

[doconeill]

It's not for me to say if you are wrong or not. But even if a CM told you to use your FP anytime you like, it still says right on the ticket when you are expected to return.

I disagree with you though. I suspect that (circa 1998-99), Disney never anticipated that people would attempt to enter the attractions at a time other than indicated. I think they were unprepared for the pleas/arguments/excuses that guests presented to the greeter at the FP entrances. To make people happy and avoid confrontations, it was probably decided to let people through rather than arguing. I'm sure they never intended for Cast Members to share with guests that this was the case. Now, the practice is part of the culture in the parks, giving us much to discuss.

But you're guessing. Per posts by Dawgdad in this thread earlier on:

I have do have firsthand information concerning "late" FP use. My cousin, Scott Bowden, works in Anaheim as a Senior Vice President in the Department of Planning, Revenue Management and Strategic Pricing - he and I have had a few conversations about this issue. It has now become a joke because whenever I call him, the first thing he says is "Fastpasses do not expire, what's up?"
Additionally, a father in our first China adoption travel group (Mike Lewinski) works for the outside firm in Buffalo that actually helped Disney design and implement the FP (they make some of the components in the machines and in the software). He is very familiar with the logistics of the FP and how they work to provide better guest movement in the parks.

To answer the question about why they print an end time and not simply the earliest time you may enter the FP line:
Because someone realized that people need guidelines. Seriously, it is because having a start and finish gives an appearance of a "reservation" instead of just giving you a time to return (which just seems like you're still waiting, just not in the line). People like an appointment. I am not kidding – it is no more scientific than that.

Seems pretty likely, and comes from a good source.

 

[larryz]

So if we ALL show up late, or not at the correct time, doesn't that kind of change the way the fastpass works?

Not at all. If everyone who got a FP that day waited until one hour prior to closing to use it, who benefits?

All the SB line riders, who get to ride just that much quicker.
And the late FP line riders, who get to ride when they're ready to.

Go back up and read the analogy that it's just like I get in line, go all the way to the load platform, and then I let EVERYBODY ride ahead of me for the next 8 hours or so. Except, of course, that I'm doing it in absentia, and all the other late FPers are doing it at the same time. We're "banking time," so to speak, and at some point in the day, our "good deed" of letting all those people go ahead of us will come due.

I think they allowed a few exceptions, and it went out of control, and now needs to be changed. Just because something is allowed, or exceptions are made does it mean everyone has to do it?

Apparently, they felt it was important enough to make it an officially posted policy (go back and view the photo of the CM guidance). And, by the by, not everyone was doing it. Only a small percentage of people are late FPers, and even if EVERYONE was doing it, see the benefit I mentioned above.

 

[mattsdragon]

What I find really funny is the fact that we (Yes. I included myself.) continue to discuss this at all.

The question is moot and the facts are what they are.

FP return times will apparently begin being stringently enforced beginning March 7, 2012, within the parameters already outlined on numerous occasions within this thread.

And that be the end of that.

Please continue.

I find myself saying the same thing. It's like watching a big NASCAR wreck where cars just keep crashing into each other.

It's all fun and games until someone looses an eye. . .

then it's HILARIOUS.

 

[kellyw8863]

So, now we down to guilting. So all those kids and all people with disabilities who is in line at that moment and maybe in a same situation with you, and do not forget that most of them are considering it is Disney and not Vegas, suppose to be happy that you found a trick and they suppose to feel compassion while you feel no compassion to them and their needs, wasting their time. When you use late FP you make decision for them and ignore their situation.

I hope I'm reading this incorrectly and that you didn't mean to imply that those who live with catastrophic illnesses/disabilities are looking for a "trick" in order to one up other paying customers on their Disney experiences. My only point in joining this discussion was to refute the assertion that there is "never" a viable excuse for missing a prescribed time slot on a FP return. And I maintain that by hoping Disney takes this into consideration as they revisit current standards of service, I am in no way attempting to "waste" anybody else's valuable vacation time. I know that Disney has been a Godsend for many people with disabilities, and I would hate to see that disappear because of a lack of FP accessibility. If (and that seems like a big if right now) Disney decides to enforce FP times, I would hope that they concurrently offer a GAC accommodation. Not an open invitation to use the FP whenever, but it would be nice to have a 30-60 minute cushion in case an unforeseen medical need comes up.

And thank you to those who expressed some compassion for those of us in much different situations.

 

[WillAustin]

I guess my question would be, why do you keep asking? You know how the system is intended to be used, so why would you ask over and over again?

If you keep asking police officers: "How fast can I drive in a 45mph zone?" They might say, "we'll let you go up to 50mph." But the speed limit is still 45. It's still your choice whether to drive 45 or 50.

Honestly, I keep asking because a few people on here tell me they've been stopped. It's never happened to us.

The ones who complain about it are conveniently ignoring the facts and the zero-sum math of actual line dynamics.

We've already had multiple explanations on this thread from someone who had some inside info on the system and the reasoning behind the printed window. Some people choose to ignore the explanations since they don't fit with how they want things to be. It doesn't make them right though.

 

[nytimez]

I find myself saying the same thing. It's like watching a big NASCAR wreck where cars just keep crashing into each other.

It's all fun and games until someone looses an eye. . .

then it's HILARIOUS.

You're just sick. I mean, you're seriously mentally ill. Losing an eye isn't funny.

But if someone loses BOTH eyes? Now that's funny -- especially if it's at a NASCAR event. Even funnier when it was someone watching from home.