Fantasy vs titanic

[Conservative Hippie]

http://malcolmoliver.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/oasis_titanic.jpg

This link shows Titanic next to Oasis.

Very interesting!

Interesting that this topic has come up, as my 6th grader is doing a History Fair entry on the Titanic. The theme is Revolution, Reaction Reform. In her (our) research, we have learned that the Titanic tragedy resulted in the SOLAS (Safety of Lives at Sea) Treaty, which in turn led to new Maritime laws.

Muster drills were pretty common in 1912 but several sources we have found say the captain of the Titanic decided to cancel the drill so that passengers could attend church service.

Titanic was capable of taking on more lifeboats but the White Star Line decided it would clutter up the look of the deck. It did not have enough lifeboats and worse (just as in the movie) most lifeboats were not filled to capacity. This is because the crew feared the weight of the lifeboats would be too much for them to be lowered safely, and because many people either did not really believe the ship was sinking or they just did not know where to go, because there had not been a drill.

Basically, we have learned that a huge number of things went wrong that led to the tragedy. A big part of her project is about how the sinking led to reform in sea travel. I cannot imagine skipping the muster drill -- if there were a situation where we needed to get in a lifeboard I definately want to know where to go!

Is skipping the drill allowed? Or do people go and just not pay attention?

Skipping the drill is not allowed, but I'm sure plenty of people go and don't pay attention.

 

[Patrickprincess]

Interesting that this topic has come up, as my 6th grader is doing a History Fair entry on the Titanic. The theme is Revolution, Reaction Reform. In her (our) research, we have learned that the Titanic tragedy resulted in the SOLAS (Safety of Lives at Sea) Treaty, which in turn led to new Maritime laws.

Muster drills were pretty common in 1912 but several sources we have found say the captain of the Titanic decided to cancel the drill so that passengers could attend church service.

Titanic was capable of taking on more lifeboats but the White Star Line decided it would clutter up the look of the deck. It did not have enough lifeboats and worse (just as in the movie) most lifeboats were not filled to capacity. This is because the crew feared the weight of the lifeboats would be too much for them to be lowered safely, and because many people either did not really believe the ship was sinking or they just did not know where to go, because there had not been a drill.

Basically, we have learned that a huge number of things went wrong that led to the tragedy. A big part of her project is about how the sinking led to reform in sea travel. I cannot imagine skipping the muster drill -- if there were a situation where we needed to get in a lifeboard I definately want to know where to go!

Is skipping the drill allowed? Or do people go and just not pay attention?

Thanks for the information about the muster drill i did not know that muster dills were done in 1912. I don't think skipping them today would be okay i think some passngers go to the must drill and they don't pay attention god forbid there's an ememcey.yes i know i can't spell. good luck on the project

 

[Disney Dreams]

...Is skipping the drill allowed? Or do people go and just not pay attention?

It is required. There is roll call taken at the drill. I have read that if you don't attend, you get an invite to a private drill (which I would imagine you do NOT want to have to attend).

It's an important session to attend. It is the "what if" that no one wants to think about, but you want to know what to do and where to go in case "what if" happens.

- Dreams

 

[mellers]

It is very sad that so many people lost their lives dues to the Cruise Lines negligence and arrogance.
He could wear short's to the main dining room in this day and age, but it would still be prudent of him to listen to the Safety Drill so if there was an emergency, he would know what to do and where to go!

Ex Techie

Couldn't agree with you more! This is particularly true if you have mobility impairments (I couldn't BELIEVE the number of wheelchair users who wanted to skip the drill!!!!) Very seldom are mobility impairments considered when it comes to emergencies--in a serious emergency you are often on your own. Your chances are vastly improved that you will survive if you have a plan.

That was brought home to me in really sharp relief when my family and I were at a hotel in Vancouver 7-8 years ago. They had put us (including me in my mobility scooter) on the 5th floor. At 3 a.m., the fire alarms went off. We could not raise the front desk, and we could not call the elevator. Walking 5 flights of stairs took me about twenty minutes, and that was with people pushing and shoving past me screaming, and the smell of smoke in the stairwell. My daughter, who is autistic and was quite young at the time, was terrified, and despite my instructions, wouldn't leave me to go forward in the stairs and go with her dad because she was afraid I wouldn't be able to make it to the bottom of the stairwell, and would die. She and my husband half-carried me and helped me get down the stairs, twenty minutes later.

Thankfully, it turned out to be a false alarm (a burned waffle in a waffle iron), and all I had was my day ruined because I was too exhausted to do anything else after hobbling down the stairs, and I caused further injury to my back. However, I have since made every hotel detail their disaster plan for wheelchair-bound individuals if they put me on any floor above the first, and I have always been careful that I know exactly where I need to be in case of an emergency.

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

It is very sad that so many people lost their lives dues to the Cruise Lines negligence and arrogance.
He could wear short's to the main dining room in this day and age, but it would still be prudent of him to listen to the Safety Drill so if there was an emergency, he would know what to do and where to go!

Ex Techie

I wouldn't say it was negligence on the White Star line as much as it was that they were still basing the number of lifeboats off of the size of the ship and not the number of passengers. Ironically her sister ship the Olympic ended up geting the Titanic's life boats added to her.

 

[extechie rbd/wdt]

I wouldn't say it was negligence on the White Star line as much as it was that they were still basing the number of lifeboats off of the size of the ship and not the number of passengers. Ironically her sister ship the Olympic ended up geting the Titanic's life boats added to her.

I don't know much about the history and policies, but not having enough space in the lifeboats for everyone aboard (pre life rafts for crew) is negligent and arrogant in calling her the unsinkable ship.

I really doesn't matter now anyway as so many innocent souls lost their lives as a result. The only good thing was that safety at sea was improved as policies like double occupancy in life boats and additional life rafts with extra occupancy for the crew is now enforced and inspected regularly by coast guards.
The addition of thing's like EPERB's and sat link's only help to pin point the exact locations of a ship in distress, great fire fighting and water breach apparatus and many other things make it much safer for Guest's and Crew.

Ex Techie

 

[Who's your Mickey?]

Who's your Mickey?,
But it was unsinkable, so why would you need all the lifeboats!?

And yet someone still posted a comment about not caring less about the Safety Drill just today. (DIS need a slap forehead simlie here!)
Just astounds me.

Ex Techie

Apparently they were wrong. But hindsight is always 20/20.

I read on another thread that they postponed the muster drill and sailaway party until Monday on a DCL cruise that left on Superbowl Sunday last year. I thought the muster drill was a USCG requirement before the ship could leave the pier. That truly baffled me.

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

I Think the rules about the muster drill is that one must take place during the sailing, there i no real time frame as to when it has to be completed just that there is one.

Also don't forget the famous quote about them changing the phrase "piratically unsinkable" to "unsinkable". Also Titanic was doomed by circumstance she probably could have survived if the damage only involved one or two of her water tight compartments instead I think it was like 3 or 4.

 

[extechie rbd/wdt]

Apparently they were wrong. But hindsight is always 20/20.

And in year's to come, god forbid other's say the same thing.

I read on another thread that they postponed the muster drill and sailaway party until Monday on a DCL cruise that left on Superbowl Sunday last year. I thought the muster drill was a USCG requirement before the ship could leave the pier. That truly baffled me.

Same as above. Being able to watch the Superbowl on any ship cannot be worth giving ones life when not knowing what to do in an emergency.
IMO it's a bit like the no need to bring your Lifejacket to the Emergency Drill policy in place at the moment.

Ex Techie

 

[lbgraves]

When we were on the Magic for the 1/8/11 cruise it was the first one where they didn't want you to wear your life jacket to the drill. DS was in the room with me and of course the host had the TV on running over the drill. I wasn't listening while unpacking because we had been through it and knew what we needed to do at 4:00. All of a sudden, DS11 got really upset and told me to listen and that wasn't right. He ran out to the hallway when he saw the host walk by and stopped him still upset telling him that someone is showing the wrong information on the TV and we need to wear our jackets to the safety drill. The host said don't worry about it man, it's okay. They changed it this week. DS shook his head and said that it was not a smart think to change how that is done. We told the kids each cruise that it was important to make sure that the jackets fit them and we knew how to put them on. They did it because the reasoning made sense. If a 9 & 11 yo can understand the reasons for doing something, it's a shame that adults created such a fuss about the practice that it was changed. In Alaska we only had 2 adult jackets in our room. I never saw the host that day [won't get into that lackluster experience for the week] but I finally called GS before I went to bed the first night and told them that I would feel better if we had jackets for the kids in our room seeing as the host never took care of it. There was someone at our door with them within 10 minutes.

 

[Who's your Mickey?]

I Think the rules about the muster drill is that one must take place during the sailing, there i no real time frame as to when it has to be completed just that there is one.

Also don't forget the famous quote about them changing the phrase "piratically unsinkable" to "unsinkable". Also Titanic was doomed by circumstance she probably could have survived if the damage only involved one or two of her water tight compartments instead I think it was like 3 or 4.

Actually, someone sent me info about this. By international law, the muster drill must take place within 24 hours of departure.

The rumor was that Titanic could float with upto 4 compartments flooded. Her problem was the iceberg damaged hull plating in 5 compartments. The weight of the additional water in the 5th compartment pulled the top of the watertight bulkheads below the waterline. Her watertight bulkheads only went as high as E deck, so once the water cleared those it could flood the entire ship.

 

[jel0511]

Could this be one reason why they changed the MV date?

A senior officer on the Dream told me the exact thing when I mentioned how excited I was they moved the date to 3/31/12, which meant I could go now since is coincided with my kids spring break.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Although I think you were being a bit lazy in not searching yourself
Here you go:

Titanic:
The RMS Titanic
Length: 882 feet, 8 inches (268 meters)
Beam: 92.5 feet (28 meters)
Height: 60.5 feet waterline to Boat Deck, 175 feet keel to top of funnels
Draft: 59.5 feet
Gross Tonnage: 46,328 tons
Net Tonnage: 24,900 tons
Top Speed: 23 knots
Total Capacity: 3547 passengers and crew
Decks: 9 in all (including the Orlop Deck)- the Boat Deck, A, B, C, D, E, F, G, and boiler rooms below G.
Engines: 2 reciprocating 4 cylinder, triple expansion, direct- acting, inverted engines: 30,000 hp, 77 rpm. 1 low pressure Parsons turbine: 16,000 hp, 165 rpm
Fuel Requirement: 825 tons of coal per day
Propellers: 3- Center turbine: 17 feet, Left/right wings: 23 feet, 6 inches
Boilers: 29 (24 double ended boilers and 5 single ended boilers)
Furnaces: 159 providing a total heating surface of 144,142 sq. feet
Steam pressure: 215 P.S.I.
Watertight compartments: 16, extending up to F deck
Lifeboats: 20 total as follows:
14 wood lifeboats, each 30 feet x 9 feet 1 inch, by 4 feet deep, with a carrying capacity of 65 persons each; 2 wood cutters, each 25 feet 2 inches, x 7 feet 2 inches, by 3 feet deep, with a carrying capacity of 40 persons each; 4 Englehardt collapsible boats, each 27 feet x 8 feet, by 3 feet deep, with a carrying capacity of 47 persons each
Lifeboat Total Rated Capacity: 1,179 persons
Personal floatation devices: 3,560 life jackets and 49 life buoys

Disney Dream:
Tonnage: 128,000 GT (gross tonnage)
Length: 1,115 ft (340 m)
Beam: 125 ft (38 m)
Draft: 26 ft (7.9 m)
Decks: 16 (14 Passenger)
Installed power:
3 x 12-cylinder & 2 x 14-cylinder MAN V48/60CR diesel engines
2 x 19 MW Converteam Motors
Speed: 22 knots (maximum 24.7 knots)
Capacity: 4,000 passengers[2]
Crew: 1,458

Ex Techie

LOL. Techie you did yourself proud with all these particulars!

I think one thing maybe off,I checked 2 sites and found the Titanic draft to be 34' 6"..not 59' 6"????

AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Titanic was even carrying more lifeboats (20) than legally required - it was only required that she have enough lifeboats for 756 passengers. Titanic was built with the capacity to carry 64 lifeboats, possibly anticipating a change in lifeboat policy.

Mr Andrews designed her with 64 lifeboats, triple stacked on deck. However the Broad of directors though it would take up to much deck space and were just plain not nessary. This came out in the various court hearings.

AKK

 

[Conservative Hippie]

This one is for ex techie and Tonka's Skipper (or anyone else who knows!) - The key to Titanic's perceived "unsinkability" was the watertight compartments. What are modern cruise ships (Disney's in particular) equipped with?

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Interesting that this topic has come up, as my 6th grader is doing a History Fair entry on the Titanic. The theme is Revolution, Reaction Reform. In her (our) research, we have learned that the Titanic tragedy resulted in the SOLAS (Safety of Lives at Sea) Treaty, which in turn led to new Maritime laws.

Muster drills were pretty common in 1912 but several sources we have found say the captain of the Titanic decided to cancel the drill so that passengers could attend church service.

Titanic was capable of taking on more lifeboats but the White Star Line decided it would clutter up the look of the deck. It did not have enough lifeboats and worse (just as in the movie) most lifeboats were not filled to capacity. This is because the crew feared the weight of the lifeboats would be too much for them to be lowered safely, and because many people either did not really believe the ship was sinking or they just did not know where to go, because there had not been a drill.

Basically, we have learned that a huge number of things went wrong that led to the tragedy. A big part of her project is about how the sinking led to reform in sea travel. I cannot imagine skipping the muster drill -- if there were a situation where we needed to get in a lifeboard I definately want to know where to go!

Is skipping the drill allowed? Or do people go and just not pay attention?

People just don't want to be bothered.......its hot.........we want to be in the poll, etc,etc,etc.

Those drills are very important and should be taken very seriously. Most mariners are amazed that the IMO gave in to not reqiuring lifevests to be worn to drills. Each vessel has different lifevests and have different ways of securing them when you wear them......during a emergency, with the vessel possible rolling and pitching, on fire, listing, lights gone or on limited emergency lighting, that is not the time to look for your vest, make sure there are kids vests in the cabin, walking and trying to figiure out how to put it on and get to your muster station.

Sure maybe you do know how to wear it, but what about others...........think of a crowded passageay, stauirwell, and people standing there trying to put on the vest and find their mustter station.

For all these reasons my family wears them to the drills and when told by a crew member or cast member that it was not reqiured I tell them why it is reqiured by ME..........You would be surprized at some people were suddenly telling me I was right!


Merchant ships still do crew weekly fire and boat drills, with vests!


AKK


PS........ and before someone posts all cabins have Kids vests....NO THEY DON'T.during the Freedonm of the Seas nasty weather voyage a few months back a passigner posted on CC that he was told by crewmembers to go find one himself for his kid as the cabin did not have any!

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I Think the rules about the muster drill is that one must take place during the sailing, there i no real time frame as to when it has to be completed just that there is one.

Also don't forget the famous quote about them changing the phrase "piratically unsinkable" to "unsinkable". Also Titanic was doomed by circumstance she probably could have survived if the damage only involved one or two of her water tight compartments instead I think it was like 3 or 4.

You have to remember it was the *Arrogance* of the age, people really did beleive she was unsinkable, but the line never said that.its was the newspapers that started the idea of *unsinkable*.


She could have floated with any 6 compartments flooded, but not in a row. Her first 5 compartements were flooded and the water casaded over the WTB into the 6 and 7 and so on.


The other sad fact is that if Mr Mudock had not managed to partially steer around the berg, she would have hit head on and done serious damage to the bow and 1 and 2 compartments. She would have floated and been able to be towed in.

AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

This one is for ex techie and Tonka's Skipper (or anyone else who knows!) - The key to Titanic's perceived "unsinkability" was the watertight compartments. What are modern cruise ships (Disney's in particular) equipped with?

Ho yes!............... they all do now,lots of them, with automatic doors that can be opened and closed form both on the Bridge and in the engine rooms and at the doors.

In fact with fire, each compartment can be sealed, including the ventilation to contain the fire in that area.


Ships are very safe today, especailly cruise ships, but as a ex seaman, I will never say unsinkable or 100% safe!

AKK

 

[Conservative Hippie]

Ho yes!............... they all do now,lots of them, with automatic doors that can be opened and closed form both on the Bridge and in the engine rooms and at the doors.

In fact with fire, each compartment can be sealed, including the ventilation to contain the fire in that area.


Ships are very safe today, especailly cruise ships, but as a ex seaman, I will never say unsinkable or 100% safe!

AKK

Is this why you can't walk all the way through decks 5 and below?

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Is this why you can't walk all the way through decks 5 and below?

I really dont know that for a fact, but it very well could be. I have not been on the dream yet and will be on the Fantasy Nov 3.


Have you been to any od the Titanic artifact shows?.they are really intense.

I did one in Hartford 2 years ago and they had one of the aft mooring line bits. Just putting a hand on it and remembering all those people on the stern, holding on to it when she went down and feeling that cold steel in my hand...........it was amazing.

AKK