Fantasy vs titanic

[Who's your Mickey?]

Titanic at the time was carrying the legal amount of lifeboats. At the time, the lifeboat requirements were due to the weight of the ship, and not the passenger count. Yes she was designed with more, and even with the original number, I dont think that she would carry enough for all of her passengers.




I know of at least 1 board member that missed a muster drill. They posted the letter they got and it basically contained all of the info that was given out at the muster drill. There is no private drill, or a meeting with a ships officer.

This is just me, but I dont think a lot of the crew takes the drills seriously.(Not just DCL but other lines also) for me, I wnat to know if the ship is sinking, and I need to get onto/into a lifeboat, that there is a serious issue, and that the party is not continuing in a smaller setting. Ive been on at least 1 cruise where the drill was more of a party then an information session. When youre at sea, and the Capt says ships sinking, get into the lifeboats, thats not the time to say If I only.......

I have read that the original design for Titanic did have enough lifeboats for the entire ships compliment, but Ismay and those in charge at The White Star Line overruled him and went with the minimum required by the Board of Trade for a ship of it's size. Keep in mind that Titanic was the largest ship at the time and the requirements of the BoT were already outdated.

My DH missed muster drill when she went on a "girls cruise". Her plane was delayed and she barely made the ship. When she arrived at the pier everyone was out on the boat deck with their lifejacket on. She said they pulled the gangways right after she boarded (carrying her own luggage). No letter, no private drill or meeting with an officer.

I watched a crew drill in Nassau one cruise. It was kind of funny/scary that the boat I watched lowered was commanded by the Cruise Director!!! He did look pleased with himself as he motored his lifeboat around the harbor. But I will say, they were dead serious when they were on deck and the officers were watching.

 

[Silverfox97]

Did you know the STOCKHOLM is still in service?.I don't remember what name she is under now..its been changed about 6 times and they have over biult her with additional superstructure..........but shes in service!

there is not much left of the ?Andra Doria on the bottom now, the superstructure and hull is collapsing into it self. I dont beleive there is much ability anymore for Divers to climb into her at this point!


AKK

Wow - the Stockholm is still in service?? That is too cool. "Saved" - that is the book I read. I remember also loving watching the original Poseidon Adventure movie too. I remember as a little kid being totally captivated by the size of the giant propellers in the air!

Exactly. Up until 1985 when she was refound by Robert Ballard, it was also supposed she went down in 1 piece. To this day there are still unanswered questions, but they are getting fewer and fewer.

Nice. Let's see, in 1985, I was 6 years old......So, a couple years later when I was in 3rd grade, I remember getting all of Ballard's books as gifts. I still love looking back at the pics in those books. My Mom had the book "Remembering the Titanic" and I remember seeing "A Night to Remember" as well. A ship breaking in half was just crazy to me.

 

[Conservative Hippie]

Exactly. Up until 1985 when she was refound by Robert Ballard, it was also supposed she went down in 1 piece. To this day there are still unanswered questions, but they are getting fewer and fewer.

The same website says this:

At the British inquiry in 1912, Edward Wilding, one of Harland & Wolff's naval architects, proposed that the uneven flooding in the six watertight compartments meant each had suffered unique, uncontinuous damage. Wilding also proposed that the actual cuts might be relatively small. His testimony was widely ignored. Nearly everyone believed that the only thing that could undo a ship so big and well constructed was a huge gash.

Very interesting.....in 1996 Wilding's theory was proven correct.

 

[extechie rbd/wdt]

[SNIP] I wasn't listening while unpacking because we had been through it and knew what we needed to do at 4:00. All of a sudden, DS11 got really upset and told me to listen and that wasn't right. He ran out to the hallway when he saw the host walk by and stopped him still upset telling him that someone is showing the wrong information on the TV and we need to wear our jackets to the safety drill. The host said don't worry about it man, it's okay. They changed it this week. DS shook his head and said that it was not a smart think to change how that is done.

Lisa,
That is a very smart and sensible young man you are raising. Hat off to you and your son for your attitude towards being as safe as you can!

LOL. Techie you did yourself proud with all these particulars!
I think one thing maybe off,I checked 2 sites and found the Titanic draft to be 34' 6"..not 59' 6"????

Thanks Skipper, but I only copied and pasted off a couple of website's, Wiki for the Dreams info! lol!

This one is for ex techie and Tonka's Skipper (or anyone else who knows!) - The key to Titanic's perceived "unsinkability" was the watertight compartments. What are modern cruise ships (Disney's in particular) equipped with?

Hippie,
The Magic class has 7 "Fire Zones" protected by fireproof doors from Deck 2 thru 8. Noticeable ones are from the Atrium into Beat Street/Route 66 on Deck 3, and Outside Sessions/Cadillac Lounge and Diversions.
Deck 1 has "splash door's" so whilst not completely water tight, they prevent water moving in large amounts and prevent fire spreading.
Deck's A & B have water tight doors, but I couldn't remember how many zones they were divided in to, but each crew stairwell was separated by them.
Pre 9/11 they used to sail with those in the crew cabin areas open, and the bridge would be able to close them if needed. After that the ship's always sailed with them closed and they would only ever be opened for testing obviously, and on a Port Canaveral day to enable to the crew to move around more easily, when changing cabins for example.
I have no idea about the engine room space aft as obviously the prop shaft would break them. Forward of that I believe they exist, but I couldn't say in how many compartments.

Is this why you can't walk all the way through decks 5 and below?

On the Dream class, the water proof compartment's wouldn't be anywhere near deck 5, deck's 1 and bellow only. Fire Zones definitely, but I don't know how many she has. I would guess an extra one over the Magic class to 8 or higher due to her extra length.

HTH's!

Ex Techie

 

[truck1]

I have read that the original design for Titanic did have enough lifeboats for the entire ships compliment, but Ismay and those in charge at The White Star Line overruled him and went with the minimum required by the Board of Trade for a ship of it's size. Keep in mind that Titanic was the largest ship at the time and the requirements of the BoT were already outdated.

My DH missed muster drill when she went on a "girls cruise". Her plane was delayed and she barely made the ship. When she arrived at the pier everyone was out on the boat deck with their lifejacket on. She said they pulled the gangways right after she boarded (carrying her own luggage). No letter, no private drill or meeting with an officer.

I watched a crew drill in Nassau one cruise. It was kind of funny/scary that the boat I watched lowered was commanded by the Cruise Director!!! He did look pleased with himself as he motored his lifeboat around the harbor. But I will say, they were dead serious when they were on deck and the officers were watching.

I honestly dont remember off hand the original amount of seats in the lifeboats vs what was onboard.

I think there was a designer that actually said that the ship was way past the rules at the time. Not sure where Ive seen/ heard it.

This is just my take on the lack of letter, but if she was traveling with others in the same cabin, and they made the drill, then they (ships crew) may not have worried about the drill as someone in the cabin should know in theory what to do. The board member I was thinking of, the entire cabin missed the drill, which prompted the letter in the cabin detailing the safety features they missedNothing major, just a sorry you missed us, heres what you missed, enjoy your cruise.

Theres been a rumor for a while now that basically says, you missed the safety drill etc. Mickeys mad, etc etc etc, this was not a request, etc etc etc, unaceptable, wait for a ships officer to come and correct the situation. Signed Capt ........... Basically a very nasty Mickeygram. Everyonce in a while it pops up.

The cruise I can vividly remember where the crew was treating the drill as a joke/party. Those that were there early were told that when your cabin was called, to reply hot hot hot. As we were one of the last I missed that part, and my first thought was WTH? Then they tried jokes and other things, etc. And me being me and in public safety and an fire/live fire/ special operations instructor, my first thought was wheres the safety info written since this yo yo has no clue as to what hes doing. My second was, I really hope nothing happens. I really want to leave this cruise in 1 piece. the cruise itself was ok. Pretty good actually. The safety drill really concerned me though.


Ive seen a few crew drills at different ports. The fact that the ships officers were there, and Ive even heard Capt Henry comment to the crew over the pa, makes me feel comfortable that DCL is taking it very seriously.

 

[truck1]

BTW........reading about the Titanic Exprience has me wanting to head down your way!


LOL



AKK

Come on down. Well give you the nickel tour that not every one gets to see.

 

[extechie rbd/wdt]

truck1,
it definitely sounds like they have taken the seriousness out completely, and instead of just trying to get the kid's involved as they used to, made it a compulsory family "funny" activity.

It's disgusting. I would love to know what the USCG think's of these relaxed rules.
I suggested a few month's back that life jackets from the Staterooms should just be brought to the drill, then demonstrated, then the Guest's have to put them on, and then any loose strap's could be secured afterwards to stop anyone tripping over them afterwards.

This situation is just madness, and negligent.

Ex Techie

 

[truck1]

truck1,
it definitely sounds like they have taken the seriousness out completely, and instead of just trying to get the kid's involved as they used to, made it a compulsory family "funny" activity.

It's disgusting. I would love to know what the USCG think's of these relaxed rules.
I suggested a few month's back that life jackets from the Staterooms should just be brought to the drill, then demonstrated, then the Guest's have to put them on, and then any loose strap's could be secured afterwards to stop anyone tripping over them afterwards.

This situation is just madness, and negligent.

Ex Techie

This cruise wasnt Disney, but they definitely did take the seriousness out. It kind of reminds me of Towering Inferno when Paul Newman is trying to get everyone down,out of the bldg and the owner is basically blowing him off.

I am truly surprised that any crusieline make the crew that man the lifeboats and the individual muster stations and the guides along the way, wear the same lifejackets the passengers wear. They should have the vest type that inflate when you hit the water, and are real comfortable. We are getting them for our boat here at work, and Ive got 2 for my kids on our boat.

 

[extechie rbd/wdt]

This cruise wasnt Disney, but they definitely did take the seriousness out. It kind of reminds me of Towering Inferno when Paul Newman is trying to get everyone down,out of the bldg and the owner is basically blowing him off.

I am truly surprised that any crusieline make the crew that man the lifeboats and the individual muster stations and the guides along the way, wear the same lifejackets the passengers wear. They should have the vest type that inflate when you hit the water, and are real comfortable. We are getting them for our boat here at work, and Ive got 2 for my kids on our boat.

WDW policy and DCL policy...... Mile's apart.
DCL have the SOLAS and IMO thing on top, but then as you you know one department operates so differently to another even under the same umbrella company.

Ex Techie

 

[mmouse37]

What I find so fascinating about the sinking of the Titanic was all the little things that lead to the demise of her.

What if they didn't misplace the binoculars for the crows nest? Would they have seen the iceberg sooner?

What if they put more lifeboats onboard? How many more could have been saved?

What if the passengers didn't overwhelm the wireless operators with personal messages to and from the ship that buried the several ice berg reportings.

What if the crew from the Californian told someone they thought the ship on the horizon looked funny in the water?

What if the Captain of the Californian didn't go back to sleep when his crew told him about the flares going off. Everyone just assumed it was MV fireworks.

What if the wireless operator of the Californian who tried to contact the Titantic and let them know about the ice field got through? What if when he got rebuked by the Titanic wireless operator (told him to shut up) he didn't go to bed and turn off his radio?

What if Ismay didn't put pressure on the Captain to get to NY earlier than scheduled?

So many things contributed to the sinking. The irony was the Californian was only 10 miles away...the Carpathia which came to titanic's aid was much further away and by the time it got there all that was around was debris and some lifeboats.

MJ

 

[extechie rbd/wdt]

MJ,

It just a sad sad catalogue of error's that seem like simple and obvious things these day's. Someone else posted about 20/20 hindsight.

So many people lost their lives due to to arrogance, misinterpretation, design over functionality and lax safety standards.

The fact the world has learnt from that tragedy and implemented so many basic practices (by todays standards), innovations, safety instruments and now regularly inspect them, and be inspected is testimony to the innovators of today that design and build these ship's.

Ex Techie

 

[Princess Sleepy]

So in the movie, the 3rd class passengers (who had quarters lower down) had a harder time getting to safety. Is there a safer area of modern ships? We have only sailed once, on Deck 2, and it seems like if we ran into an iceberg (I know, unlikely in the Caribbean) we would be in trouble. Just wondering.

 

[extechie rbd/wdt]

So in the movie, the 3rd class passengers (who had quarters lower down) had a harder time getting to safety. Is there a safer area of modern ships? We have only sailed once, on Deck 2, and it seems like if we ran into an iceberg (I know, unlikely in the Caribbean) we would be in trouble. Just wondering.

Unlikely?!? Not gonna happen!

All deck's on a DCL ship are just as safe if you were running into an iceberg in the Caribbean!

Ex Techie

 

[lbgraves]

Well, I initially thought that the big difference is there aren't any gates...then I remembered the gates to concierge on the Dream and likely the Fantasy. You would be okay on deck 2 though.

 

[truck1]

What I find so fascinating about the sinking of the Titanic was all the little things that lead to the demise of her.

What if they didn't misplace the binoculars for the crows nest? Would they have seen the iceberg sooner?

What if they put more lifeboats onboard? How many more could have been saved?

What if the passengers didn't overwhelm the wireless operators with personal messages to and from the ship that buried the several ice berg reportings.

What if the crew from the Californian told someone they thought the ship on the horizon looked funny in the water?

What if the Captain of the Californian didn't go back to sleep when his crew told him about the flares going off. Everyone just assumed it was MV fireworks.

What if the wireless operator of the Californian who tried to contact the Titantic and let them know about the ice field got through? What if when he got rebuked by the Titanic wireless operator (told him to shut up) he didn't go to bed and turn off his radio?

What if Ismay didn't put pressure on the Captain to get to NY earlier than scheduled?

So many things contributed to the sinking. The irony was the Californian was only 10 miles away...the Carpathia which came to titanic's aid was much further away and by the time it got there all that was around was debris and some lifeboats.

MJ

Yep. Thats why its called a cascade effect or chain of errors.

Basically you change or remove any 1 part of the chain, and the outcome is differnt.

Heres something else to ponder: If the Titanic didnt sink with the large loss of life, or had she been delayed because the ship in Southhampton broke loose and actually made contact with her, and missed the iceberg etc, what would the safety of ships at sea look like today?

Unfortunately, it takes a large scale tragedy, to make drastic changes to anything.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

What I find so fascinating about the sinking of the Titanic was all the little things that lead to the demise of her.

What if they didn't misplace the binoculars for the crows nest? Would they have seen the iceberg sooner?

What if they put more lifeboats onboard? How many more could have been saved?

What if the passengers didn't overwhelm the wireless operators with personal messages to and from the ship that buried the several ice berg reportings.

What if the crew from the Californian told someone they thought the ship on the horizon looked funny in the water?

What if the Captain of the Californian didn't go back to sleep when his crew told him about the flares going off. Everyone just assumed it was MV fireworks.

What if the wireless operator of the Californian who tried to contact the Titantic and let them know about the ice field got through? What if when he got rebuked by the Titanic wireless operator (told him to shut up) he didn't go to bed and turn off his radio?

What if Ismay didn't put pressure on the Captain to get to NY earlier than scheduled?

So many things contributed to the sinking. The irony was the Californian was only 10 miles away...the Carpathia which came to titanic's aid was much further away and by the time it got there all that was around was debris and some lifeboats.

MJ

MJ you can add to the list.....



What if the sea wasn't so calm........

What if the moon was out..............

What if the steel used in those days wasn't so brittal in ice cold water.....

What if the watertight BLKH's went 1 deck higher...........

What if they were able to steam toward the Carpathia......(the forward motion was forcing more water into the forward compartments faster)

What if the *GILDED AGE* wasn't so arrogent!


AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

So in the movie, the 3rd class passengers (who had quarters lower down) had a harder time getting to safety. Is there a safer area of modern ships? We have only sailed once, on Deck 2, and it seems like if we ran into an iceberg (I know, unlikely in the Caribbean) we would be in trouble. Just wondering.

PS, you will be perfectly safe........

Sad as it is, the movies were correct and real in that the gates between third/steerage class and the upper decks were locked and guarded to a peroid of time . Who ordered it?..who knows, my guess it was someone in the stewards dept. working from years of class separation on ships....... They were later opened up, but a much higher % of third class/steerage passingers died.

I know this is silly, but this is one reason I don't like the idea of conserge service on ships today.....the days of different classes on ships are over.....this my personal thing...not meant to disrepect anyone.

AKK

 

[bound2travel]

Interesting that this topic has come up, as my 6th grader is doing a History Fair entry on the Titanic. The theme is Revolution, Reaction Reform. In her (our) research, we have learned that the Titanic tragedy resulted in the SOLAS (Safety of Lives at Sea) Treaty, which in turn led to new Maritime laws.
QUOTE]

I just had to comment. I am a public librarian in Florida. Last night, I had a parent and child looking for materials about the 1926 and 1928 hurricanes for a history fair project. They had to find information on revolution, reaction and ....... the daughter couldn't remember the third word. As I had read this post, I knew the third word!!!! I thought it was so funny that a post on the Dis would help me assist a customer at work. Just thought I would share.

 

[Who's your Mickey?]

Unfortunately, it takes a large scale tragedy, to make drastic changes to anything.

The truly unfortunate thing is that society still hasn't learned that lesson.

In auto racing, many drivers have died in wrecks, but nothing was done about it until Dale Earnhardt died on national TV at Daytona. The NFL & NHL are just now understanding that repeated blows to the head are not good for the human body. Years ago Eric Lindros was one of the faces of the league and a posterboy for concussions, yet nothing was ever done. Now Sidney Crosby gets his melon cracked and several "enforcers" commit suicide. Suddenly it's a hot topic in the NHL. The NFL didn't react to head injuries until ex-players started dying and committing suicide. Suddenly there is a multi-million dollar inititive to develop safer helmets. However, the NFL and players union are letting the individual players decide which helmet they want to wear regardless of how it scored in their testing. No mandate requiring them to wear the higher scoring equipment. These aren't new issues, they're just in the media now so the leagues have finally decided to address them.

While these examples are most definitely not on the scale of the Titanic, they are a reminder that even today society has a tolerance for acceptable loss. It's not until the numbers, or the name, becomes shocking that the issues get addressed.

 

[truck1]

I agree. Theres examples everywhere we look, and at the same time there are lobbyists that try and undo everything that has been done. As a firefighter, one of the growing trends is for inhome sprinklers. Most insurance companies will now charge more is you have one, instead of less, because they are worried about broken pipes and broken heads. The construction industry as a whole is fighting it, because it costs it eats into their profits (or its perceived as such).