Family crisis (life or death)- Anyone have any info on Quixtar (used to be Amway)

[susy]

Hi! about 4 years ago, my nephew was a junior in high school with a promising future. He had already finihsed all science courses by the end of tenth grade and was enrolled in pre -calculus and doing very well- college scholarship and all. One night a friend invited him to a Quixtar meeting. After attending many meetings, he was convinced in their message-why spend your life working when you can sit on your butt and do nothing and make millions and spend your life traveling-blah blah blah

Anyway, for the next few years, he has attended meetings, gone to numerous conferences, buys and reads only their books (which are very positive) and listens to countless of their CD's. We've got a good case of good old-fashioned brainwashing here.
Instead of being a millionaire in 3-5 years (their timetable), here is what's happened to him:

Lost college scholarship after dropping out (after 1 semester)-he didn't have time for college and it's not going to get him anything anyway, right?

He has spent tens of thousands of dollars on fees, products, and trips

His credit is the WORST-if there is a bottom rating-that's him

He can't cover his bills and his checking account is always overdrawn.
He never has ANY money-has to borrow $10 to put gas in his car.

He works at jobs that "pay alot" , like telemarketing, but that have no future. He's not interested in a company where he can "move up" because he doesn't need that-he's going to be a millionaire, remember.

He works SO HARD at this junk that he should be a millionaire right now. If he put this much effort into something real, he would be doing really great things!He BELIEVES that it's not working because it's HIS FAULT (as opposed to the truth-its' a scam).

Okay, ready for this? My bright, 20 year old nephew is contemplating suicide....

Someone please help us.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I am so sorry. Can you get him to counseling? I think that would be the best way to start. Good luck.

 

[L107ANGEL]

The fact that he is contemplating killing himself is very sad. He needs to realize that most MLM's are not really profitable but for a few and hes merely a stepping stone, once he leaves they will find another person to brainwash.
I hope he gets the help he needs

 

[LindsayDunn228]

I am an IBO with Quixtar! I have some very good friends who have succeeded part-time with Quixtar. With all do respect, in this case, I don't think it's the business that's the problem. There are responsible and irresponsible ways to work with these business.

He needs to get into counseling ASAP!

ETA: Quixtar is a LOT of work. I have never heard them tell someone you can just sit around doing nothing and become a millionaire.

 

[susy]

I'm the OP. Hey Lindsay! I am the president of the Josh's Shirt be gone club! Didn't even know it was still around!

How can you get someone to counseling when they don't think they are brainwashed or that anything's wrong? He refuses to listen to anything "negative" about Quixtar. He told my mom yesterday that he will never quit it. I guess it will just quit him. They've told him that they are his family and that his real family will try to discourage him. My mom's husband went to one of their meetings and said that they have an "answer for everything". If you ask me, becoming a millionaire by selling products as one's goal in life is very sad. I'm a teacher and LOVE going to my job every day. My nephew is missing out on life by listening to these LOSERS.

 

[LindsayDunn228]

Susy,

That's precisely why you have to be careful in any business venture. You have to keep your head on you. IMO, the mentality of "I'm going to be a millionaire" with ANY job is sad.

You say he's broke, can't pay his bills, can't even afford gas in his car, etc. I'm truly sorry, but that isn't Quixtar's fault. It's the responsibility of that person only. It really sounds like he needs/needed a mentor in the business to help him.

As an IBO, I don't really sell anything. I just bought so many products that in the end, it would save me money to become an IBO. IBOs get anywhere from $5-10 off per product and pay a $60/year fee. In 2 or 3 orders, I had earned back that money from savings. Not to mention I get a percentage in commission.

 

[DawnCt1]

I'm the OP. Hey Lindsay! I am the president of the Josh's Shirt be gone club! Didn't even know it was still around!

How can you get someone to counseling when they don't think they are brainwashed or that anything's wrong? He refuses to listen to anything "negative" about Quixtar. He told my mom yesterday that he will never quit it. I guess it will just quit him. They've told him that they are his family and that his real family will try to discourage him. My mom's husband went to one of their meetings and said that they have an "answer for everything". If you ask me, becoming a millionaire by selling products as one's goal in life is very sad. I'm a teacher and LOVE going to my job every day. My nephew is missing out on life by listening to these LOSERS.

He has threatened suicide. That tells me that he is "a danger to himself or others". It sounds like his obsession with this company is the same obsession that gamblers have with gambling; the next big payout is just one more pull on the slot machine. If I were his mom, I would start talking to psychiatrists about his threats of suicide and see if he can hospitalized for a 30 day or at least a 72 hour hold.

 

[kdibattista]

If he is contemplating suicide and refuses counseling, call the police, tell them he threatened his life and have him committed.

I'm serious... don't delay. Threats of suicide are not something to be passive about.

 

[PrincessKitty1]

Although, based on my contact with Amway sellers, I believe MLMs can have cult-like qualities, it doesn't seem fruitful to approach your nephew about this. He needs immediate help for his illness. I would suggest getting him into a doctor right away (can be a family doctor if he won't see a psychiatrist) who will hopefully start him on medications for his depression. If he is considering suicide, this is a true emergency. He might even need involuntary commitment. Does his family have a doctor who they can talk to about this?

 

[Disney Ella]

We have friends who were going to be millionaires in five years with Quixtar. They were never going to have to work again if the didn't want to. It's more than five years later now and they are out of it and are not millionaires. They said their lack of success was because other people weren't open-minded enough to want to do it.

They tried to get us to join so many times that DH finally told his friend that he never wanted to hear about Quixtar again. I've read some of their literature and it seems to be set up like a religion. I'm not saying it is a religion, but it is set up very much like a religion. I didn't like the way they told you what was acceptable to wear to sales calls - dresses for women, suits for men - and how the man in the family should conduct the sales, while the woman was relegated to doing the paperwork.

Our friends spent thousands going to those conferences, which seem to be a big moneymaker for Quixtar. It sounds to me like they guilt you into going to those. Our friends also had a set amount they had to spend every month.

Does your nephew realize that a lot of people older than him have not succeeded at Quixtar? Everything doesn't work out for everybody (especially Quixtar) and when one thing doesn't work out for you, you try another, like maybe going back to college. I hope you are able to convince him to get some help. It sounds like he has a lot of potential that is being wasted.

 

[meandtheguys2]

It really doesn't have anything to do with the company. It is a mental health issue. He needs to seek a counselor because he is suicidal, not because he is in a cult.

 

[Laura]

Some people can get really sucked into these kinds of MLMs with all the pressure and brainwashing (listening to CDs, reading books). Quixtar/Amway isn't the only one, of course, and your nephew isn't the only victim. It can become like an addiction to gambling. I have a co-worker who's in Mary Kay and it's a lot like Amway. She's pretty tight with her $$, though, so I don't think she's going to lose her shirt, but she isn't making money at it.

The chances of "making it big" at MLMs are very very very small. It's one thing to be a casual user of the products and maybe sell a little to others, but recruiting is the way to the top. It's not easy to sucker a lot of people into joining these things, and the market is often so saturated with IBOs (or whatever the salespeople are referred to in the companies) that it's hard to make decent money selling the products.

But the important fact here is that your nephew is contemplating suicide. This may require emergency intervention as other posters suggested. Once he comes out of his "fog", he may be able to see how much a losing proposition Quixtar is and quit.

 

[ilovejack02]

He is mentally ill and has found something to latch onto ... Quixtar didnt do this to him, but gave him something to focus his unforeseen issues on.
If he is talking suicide then you need to call police and have him committed asap.

I do not sell or never will sell with Q, but my cousin does, they do pretty well and have some really great friends from the business. Ive met them all, nice people and I enjoy spending time with them, but they dont bother me about joining and in the 10 ish yrs they have been with this group, ive only been asked once about joining. Both still work their normal jobs as do all of their friends. My cousin would be the first one to run screaming if they tried to discourage working and tried to remove them from their family.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Suicide is nothing to fool with, he needs professional help....period. There is nothing you can do but get him meds and professional help.
He is mentally ill.

My 16yo nephew, who was suicidal, is doing much better on medication!!!

My brother and my sil divorced in Feb, and he flunked school and his mom is crazy....still is.

 

[susy]

Disney Ella,

Finally-someone who understands....
My nephew was a sophomore in high school (and is only 20 now) when this stuff was presented to him, so I don't know how business savvy any of us were at that age-especially when promised the moon if you do a, b, and c and this is the only thing you're hearing. They actually do drag Christianity and the Bible into this, if you can believe it. As far as mental illness, it's always a possibility, but to see something like this come out of no where, when all along there's been this very "normal", average kid, is leading me to lean more towards the brainwashing (which a person does not have to have a mental illness to be susceptible). The person (kid) "over him" was his best friend in high school, who has also dropped out of college. Talking to his family will do no good-they are deep in it. I see my nephew as this little pawn, who gives his little bit here and there to those above him and he's not making any $$$$$ whatsoever (just spending). Did your friends make any $$$$? Do you know if they were heavily in debt, like my nephew is?

 

[Disney Ella]

Susy,

I know my friends made a least a little bit of money in the beginning, enough to entice them to stay in it. I would think with all they were spending on books, cds, conferences, hotels, etc., that they were actually breaking even in the best years. I don't know if they got into debt or not, but DH recently told me that they have no retirement savings at all so if they ever had been doing well, you would think they would have been able to start a retirement account or college account for the kids. It seems to me that they have very little savings at all, because whenever they need to do something to their house, they always have to save up for it, they never just have the money. So I would guess they saw very little money in the end.

What does your nephew's family say about the situation with him wanting to kill himself? Even if they are Quixtar fanatics, can't they see what it is doing to their son?

 

[Laura]

Disney Ella,

Finally-someone who understands....
My nephew was a sophomore in high school (and is only 20 now) when this stuff was presented to him, so I don't know how business savvy any of us were at that age-especially when promised the moon if you do a, b, and c and this is the only thing you're hearing. They actually do drag Christianity and the Bible into this, if you can believe it. As far as mental illness, it's always a possibility, but to see something like this come out of no where, when all along there's been this very "normal", average kid, is leading me to lean more towards the brainwashing (which a person does not have to have a mental illness to be susceptible). The person (kid) "over him" was his best friend in high school, who has also dropped out of college. Talking to his family will do no good-they are deep in it. I see my nephew as this little pawn, who gives his little bit here and there to those above him and he's not making any $$$$$ whatsoever (just spending). Did your friends make any $$$$? Do you know if they were heavily in debt, like my nephew is?

You and Disney Ella are very right.

You don't have to be mentally ill to be suicidal. Things like losing tons of money can drive people to do it. Your nephew may be mentally ill, though, and he needs counseling to bring him to reality no matter what. None of us can say for sure what's caused it, whether it was something in his head or Quixtar's brainwashing, but he still needs to talk to a professional.

People in MLMs like Quixtar assert that if you aren't succeeding, you aren't working hard enough or don't "believe" enough. They only tell you that you won't have to work hard if they're trying to get you to join. The uplines use tactics like "The Secret" (law of attraction) to convince recruits that they need to think a certain way, they shun the "losers" or "quitters", they conceal information, etc. There's a lot of pressure to do what they say, and to go to events to get "training" or learn some secrets of success. There are a few people who happen to be successful, but absolutely in the minority.

Questions to ask your nephew: How much does the average IBO make? How many people run like the wind when they hear the name Quixtar or Amway when he tries to recruit? What percentage of people who join actually make a living from the business? Does he know the answers?

http://www.amquix.info/
http://www.merchantsofdeception.com/yourhelp.html

 

[Geoff_M]

Susy, to answer you question... As others have stated, your family member needs to get away from those in his "business" and get some serious counseling.

With all do respect, in this case, I don't think it's the business that's the problem.

Lindsay, I'd disagree with that assessment to a large degree. There are two entities at work here: Amway/Quixtar and the nephew's QMO (Quixtar Motivational Organization, AKA "Upline"). A little background: For about 9 years (ending about 2 years ago) my parents were hip-deep in Amway/Quixtar. I watched as they effectively went broke trying to "Be Free". My Dad blew threw his parent's inheritance, their savings, you name it. Once my sister and I had to loan them money so they wouldn't lose their house... and still they wouldn't get out of the Amway/Quixtar trap. Their marriage of 40 years has been strained almost to the breaking point several times during the ordeal.

The main problem is that largely the QMO's sells a vision to their "IBOs" that they too will become millionaires if they just "work the business" and get "plugged into the System". "The System" being overpriced books, tapes, meetings (both local and major functions), etc. etc. What the lower level IBO's aren't told is that the big shots on the stages are making most of their money, not from Amway/Quixtar commissions, but from their profits for sales of "The System". So my Mom and Dad bought into a false vision and held on to it for years.

So what is Amway/Quixtar's "fault" in this? For starters, they have been fully aware of the abuses being committed by the QMO's, but have largely failed to act on the problems. This is because they have become co-depended on the "big pins" and their armies of IBO's. Without them, Amway/Quixtar would be dead in the water with no real meaningful sales. Several years ago, instead of trying to fix the problems that were cropping up in the forms of lawsuits over things like the profits from "The System", Amway decided that the best way to deal with the problems was to make distributors sign binding arbitration agreements that gagged parties from talking publicly about any internal Amway squabbles and forced everyone to abide by the decisions of arbiters of Amway's choosing! Fortunately, judges have often thrown the agreements out, noting their gross unfairness, when Amway/Quixtar has tried to use them to get filed lawsuits thrown out of court.

And then there's Amway/Quixtar's "looking the other way" when it comes to the rules designed to insure that the business isn't an illegal Pyramid Scheme. Since Amway signed a consent decree with the FTC in the late 1970's, they are supposed to insure that a certain amount of sales are actually retail sales to non-distributors/IBO's. By law, any system that is built on "self-consumption" of product among members that are recruited is illegal. For decades there was a set percentage of sales that had to be real genuine retails sales in order for any bonus to be paid. A few years ago the absolute rules was re-worded to be less absolute. Amway/Quixtar also relies on unverified self-reporting to "enforce" the rules on bonus payouts. When you used to walk into my parents' garage and basement, it looked like an Amway warehouse up in Ada. They were packed with product they had been encouraged to by so they could maintain their standing in their line of sponsorship. Water conditioners, air purifying fans, stacks of "starter kits",... you name it.

 

[LindsayDunn228]

How much does the average IBO make? How many people run like the wind when they hear the name Quixtar or Amway when he tries to recruit? What percentage of people who join actually make a living from the business? Does he know the answers?

http://www.amquix.info/
http://www.merchantsofdeception.com/yourhelp.html

Just FYI, being an IBO and actually being in the business of Quixtar are two totally separate things. Like I said, I don't sell at all. I don't make anything. The commission thing I mentioned is roughly $20/quarter. I just use the IBO factor for savings. So there's no commitment for me anywhere.

I still stand by what I said. No one forces you to make the commitments, blow your savings, and ruin your life. You do it of your own free will. Quixtar can't make you do anything you do want to do.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

oh ok, his parents are in it also? I was wondering how he got in so young, too young to even sign a contract.

I really don't have any advice. Yes, he needs psychological intervention, but I'm guessing he doesn't have health insurance?

You can try contacting your County Health department to see if their are any counselling programs he might qualify to attend. But if he is still convinced that Amway is going to make him rich someday, he probably isn't willing to stop.