Family crisis (life or death)- Anyone have any info on Quixtar (used to be Amway)

[The Mystery Machine]

Do his parents know he has threatened suicide? How do they justify not helping him?

I know in the case of my nephew, his school told the parents they were going to call child protective services on them if they did not get him help.

 

[Disney Doll]

He is mentally ill and has found something to latch onto ... Quixtar didnt do this to him, but gave him something to focus his unforeseen issues on.
If he is talking suicide then you need to call police and have him committed asap.

What she said.

I would add that if he isthreatening suicide he can be committed whether he wants to be or not. He is a danger to himself.

 

[Jynohn]

A search on this website will tell you more than you ever wanted to know about Quixtar/Amway.

http://www.badbusinessbureau.com

Two of my uncles have been involved in this for years. Both of them are in their mid-fifties and have nothing to show for their years of work. In fact, one just lost his home about a year ago. I also had a boyfriend many years ago who fell for one of these "get rich quick" schemes. He was always bringing home "inspirational" books and spouting off phrases like, "keep your eye on the prize." He didn't remain my boyfriend for long.

I'm sorry your nephew has gotten caught up with this, and I will keep him in my thoughts. I agree with others that threats of suicide need to be dealt wtih immediately, and hopefully getting him away from this company will come later.

 

[LindsayDunn228]

What she said.

I would add that if he isthreatening suicide he can be committed whether he wants to be or not. He is a danger to himself.

Not in the state of TN he can't. If friends/family call the police and tell them he's suicidal and he denies it, there is nothing they can do.

 

[DawnCt1]

Not in the state of TN he can't. If friends/family call the police and tell them he's suicidal and he denies it, there is nothing they can do.

Then the family needs to get in contact with a psychiatrist who can sign commitment papers and get him in for an evaluation.

 

[kdibattista]

Not in the state of TN he can't. If friends/family call the police and tell them he's suicidal and he denies it, there is nothing they can do.

But he's not in TN... he's in Florida and you can absolutely have someone committed per the Baker Act:

http://www.psychlaws.org/PressRoom/faqonbakeract.htm

What are the criteria for involuntary psychiatric exams in Florida?

Florida law permits a mental health professional, law enforcement officer, or judge who issues an ex parte order to initiate an involuntary examination only when a person meets the following criteria:

f there is reason to believe that he or she is mentally ill and because of his or her mental illness:

(a) 1. The person has refused voluntary examination after conscientious explanation and (a) disclosure of the purpose of the examination; or

(a) 2. The person is unable to determine for himself or herself whether the examination is (a) necessary; and

(b) 1. Without care or treatment, the person is likely to suffer from neglect or refuse to care for himself or herself; such neglect or refusal poses a real and present threat of substantial harm to his or her well-being; and it is not apparent that such harm may be avoided through the help of willing family members or friends or the provision of other services; or

(a) 2. There is a substantial likelihood that without care or treatment the person will cause serious bodily harm to himself or herself or others in the near future, as evidenced by recent behavior.

Make the call... please

 

[LindsayDunn228]

Ok, I missed that somewhere. Thanks, Kim.

 

[Ride Junkie]

Wow, this is so sad. It's a shame he can't see that his life wasn't going downhill (leading to suicidal thoughts) until he joined Quixtar. Someone else here mentioned this: don't members of this scheme ever wonder why so many people decline their invite & run the other way??

I hope someone can convince him that a college education is the way to go, and that he can turn his life around and be anything he wants to be. I would love to hear an update after this happens.

 

[floridafam]

Oh, boy. I don't even know where to begin.

I do think Amway is partly to blame here. I still call it Amway because that's what it is even thought they changed the name.

I used to think it was the greatest company. I grew up in Grand Rapids and worked with several members of the DeVos and VanAndel families in local politics. I watched several friends get sucked in to the Amway trap and watched as they lost friends, strained their marriages, etc.

Can you explore the legal avenue of him having entered into a contract at the age of 15. Wouldn't he have had to be 18?

It's possible he would have had the same suicidal thoughts with or without the Amway mess but I'm sure it played some part in his current state of mind. It's normal for people with "issues" to get involved in these MLM schemes because they are cult like and all the higher ups tell them what they want to hear and make them feel good.

I hope he gets the help he needs. I have so little respect for the people that run Amway.

Dick DeVos lives over on the beach here in a posh gated community. You should send the bill for your nephew's mental health care to him.

I hope he can get the help he needs and realize that there is a whole world out there waiting for him-a world that doesn't involve Quixtar.

 

[CathrynRose]

I still stand by what I said. No one forces you to make the commitments, blow your savings, and ruin your life. You do it of your own free will. Quixtar can't make you do anything you do want to do.

Where as, you're right - but I'd take a gander and say youre NOT a follower, youre NOT easily influenced, you have a solid sense of self. These sorts of things (and Im not even familiar with Quixtar, but 'cults' in general) thrive on people who arent like you and I. Who can be talked into something, and easily influenced, someone in 'need' of something in their life.

So, for you or I - yes, we could be an IBO and be fine. But there are people out there whom are not like us, and THOSE are the people being targeted, and whose lives may end up in ruin because of such.

 

[Geoff_M]

If you want a good look at why normal people can get sucked into the Quixtar business and then hang on longer than logic would normally allow while they bleed financially, watch this NBC Dateline story on Quixtar Motivational Organizations and how they work their magic on the faithful who see riches just right around the corner: Link

 

[disneyfan67]

I feel sorry for the young man in question and hope he turns his life around.

I do have to shake my head in amazement though at how many people fall into scams like this. Different names and products, but the end result is all the same. The only people who make the vast riches without working are the people running the operation or the con, as I call it. The only one benefits from the pyramid scheme is the one who runs it.


As a small business owner I get plenty of offers in the mail and by phone to go to "get rich quick" seminars that offer different products and pep talks on how to be wealthy and independent. I would be rich too if I could talk a 10000 suckers into spending 300 bucks to get in the door, another 500 or more for the information tapes, books, and whatever else I could come up with.

I wasn't surprised to see the creator of Amway to be living in a posh gated community, overlooking the Atlantic, enjoying the fruits of his scam. I bet it's hard to hear the cries of the poor suckers you helped ruin over the roar of the ocean.

 

[floridafam]

I just wanted to clarify that normal people also get sucked into schemes like this.

When I first saw the title of this thread I knew that Geoff M would be posting and looked for his post. We have pretty much the same view on the whole situation.

There is so much about this whole thing that bugs me. I don't fault them for working hard and being wealthy but they act like such good Christian people and that bugs me.

I know the main point of this thread is the nephew of the OP and I hope that things work out for the best. I know that someday he will realize you are only trying to help him.

 

[disneyfav4ever]

I tried the Quixtar thing and spent a few hundred, and then luckily came to my senses before I started spending thousands.

They push their beliefs down the throats of anyone that goes to their meetings, and I agree that they will shun anyone who doesn't make it, and blame it on laziness.

I mean they have this whole "own your own business" thing and make it sound really great. And then if you do sign up for it, the first thing they do is tell you to attend meetings, buy books and cds, etc.

 

[Nancyg56]

I totally agree. People's lives have been ruined by Quixtar, Mary Kay, Pampered Chef, etc. But I still stand by one of my biggest mottos: Personal Responsibility. You do have choices in life. Some folks make bad ones for themselves and I don't think the companies are always to blame.

This is true as far as that goes. The problem is that there are companies that are set up in a way that encourages people to dive deeper and deeper in order to become successful. Their main function is to convince people that you can make a living by having others make the money for you and while it is possible it is not probable.

I was just a young bride when my H and I got lulled into Amway and it was a pyramid way back then. From the "meetings" that I have have in the years since then it seems as though the method of attracting people has changed a bit but the financial commitment hs been drastically increased.

You have decided that you want to be a part of the company for your discount and not for an income, but you are not the person that this company wants to attract. This company wants people who are searching for the perfect job and has absolutely no remorse when those people invest their lives into the "company", No reputable corporation would require what this one does from their "investors". The young man who is so deeply invested, both emotionally and financially is the type of person who is the lifeblood of pyramid companies, not secure people who are trying to save a little money on their household expenses.

You are correct when you say that Amway is not responsible for the irresponsible decisions people make, but Amway and companies like Amway do need to shoulder responsibility when their structure is set up this way. It may not be illegal, but it is immoral.

 

[Geoff_M]

I just wanted to clarify that normal people also get sucked into schemes like this.

Amen to that. It isn't the "mentally ill", or weak of mind, or uneducated folks that get sucked in and stay in far too long. My parents have college degrees (my Mom has her M.A.) and the guy that got them envolved in Amway is a dentist. He and his wife got smart a few years before my parents did and left Amway. They also got divorced. Marriages are also a common casualty of Amway/Quixtar. Within the business there actually used to be a term for marital fights over Amway... They were known as AmBattles in "AmSpeak". After the dentist and his wife divorced the wife came to the funeral of one of my Mom's relatives and personally apologized for getting them sucked into Amway.

As for the OP's poor nephew, I think you can get a glimpse of what is going through his mind by looking at the man crying at the rally in the Dateline video. I agree with the comment of the ex-Diamond that what's likely making him look depressed and crying is that he can't understand why "The System" isn't working for him like it appears to be for everyone else. He's thinking "maybe the problem is me", or "If I can just hang on a little bit longer then things will turn my way... They keep telling me every[/i business loses money in the beginning, so maybe this is normal."

 

[tink1978]

he does need counseling...but if he is seriously contemplating suicide...someone needs to get him to the closest hospital for an evaluation ASAP! He may need inpatient care for a couple of weeks. It will be intensive therapy and then when he gets out he can follow up with weekly counseling.

 

[Chloe'sMom]

It's been a long time since I heard the word Quixtar. I was about your nephew's age when I got involved. My parents were splitting, and these people seemed so happy and seemed to be really into what you were doing. They called, they came over, they had gatherings you were invited to. Etc.

Thankfully being a broke college kid and having no where to go I was never able to waste a lot of money on the books and tapes - although I actually did find one stuffed in the back of a junk drawer a few weeks ago.

It does have the cult feel to it although I was not in a branch of Quixtar that had the VanAndels.

There are different sectors of Quixtar and I was under Jody and Cathy Victor - who I met in person a few times and were always perfectly lovely. They never ever encouraged me to quit college - in fact it was quite the opposite. I also met their children who were all in college as well. They also never made the system sound like you could sit on the couch and make money - I saw how hard my upline worked. There were weeks where my upline wouldn't be home at all in the evening because they were out prospecting.

There was a lot of "believing the dream" type stuff, and a lot of books. Some of the books were better then others - I have one called Checkmate that I still refer to about paying down debt, and one called Positive Personality Profiles that has helped me with my sales (my current position). The author of "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" has actually endorsed Quixtar which really confuses me.

But in truth we ended up more in debt buying the products then we started out with. THey have great products especially the make products through Artistry - but I didn't buy enough to bother to keep the membership, and plus it put a strain on my friendship with my upline. Yes I quit - but I am still friends with my former upline.

If your cousin has contemplating suicide - my advice is to not focus on the company but get him into treatment ASAP. Best of Luck!

~Amanda

 

[susy]

The OP here again. Just saw my nephew. He was off to the weekly "meeting". I hugged and kissed him and told him that I love him (so did my mom). My mom says he seems a bit better since he talked to his mom's new husband, who is brand new to our family. This man has a lot of patience and we don't know all that was said yet....maybe a fresh outlook will help....
Anyway, Geoff you are right on the money when you talked about the fact that my nephew is feeling that "if he holds on longer" and that he's not working hard enough (blaming himself). If you go in his room you will see all sorts of "goals" written out and posted everywhere. He has a list of things that he does daily for the business. It's not just "weak-minded" people that can be influenced by a cult. The hardest part of getting out is leaving behind the close friendships and the sense of how much has been wasted.

 

[Geoff_M]

Anyway, Geoff you are right on the money when you talked about the fact that my nephew is feeling that "if he holds on longer" and that he's not working hard enough (blaming himself). If you go in his room you will see all sorts of "goals" written out and posted everywhere.

Yep, they are taught to do all of that. My parents had "Go Diamond!" notes written to themselves taped to mirrors, cupboard cabinet doors, etc. They also had photos of big houses, expensive cars, etc. clipped from magazines pasted all over the place. You were supposed to use all of these to help keep a "positive" mindset and stay "focused" on the business.

Please, please try and get your nephew away from those meetings. All they are going to do is prolong things and worsen his depression!

The lowest point for us was when my Dad called us all (my wife and kids too) into the family room for some "news". My Dad then put in the promo video for Disney Cruise Line and pressed play. I wasn't sure where he was headed with the video. I knew they didn't have enough money to announce that he was talking us all on a Disney cruise for Christmas, or anything like that. The video ends, the kids are all excited about a Disney cruise, and my Dad then tell my wife and I that his Upline just announced a sales contest were the top performers would win a Disney cruise. All we had to do was get "on board" the Quixtar business and work hard and we'd all have the dream extended family trip. I was ticked.... We were scheduled to leave for home when he sprung the video and so we left right after the speech at the end. I got to explain to our kids on the way home that we weren't going on a cruise with Grandma and Grandpa.