F9/11 - Heat is on

[buddy&wooz]

Originally posted by stevenpensacola
If it's not politically motivated, they should delay releasing the film until after the november elections.

Studios delay releasing films all the time for various reasons. No reason they couldn't be delayed.

I don't think anyone has said it wasn't politically motivated. Moore has said he hopes the film influences the election, and he pushed hard to have it released by July 4th.

Personally I'm really looking forward to seeing it.

 

[faithinkarma]

Originally posted by Disney Enthusiast

Originally posted by faithinkarma
Or, now here's a novel thought, don't review something you have not seen.

Guess what? I wasn't reviewing the film F911. I was giving examples of how he mislead the viewers in Columbine. Someone had mentioned that in F911 MM did back up his argument w/ facts. All I was doing was trying to show how he backed up his argument w/ facts in Columbine and turned his argument into fiction. You are right, I didn't see F911 yet, but if he uses the same tactics he used in Columbine, then he will again be misleading the viewers. I guess you could say I was giving you a heads up. Hence I said, look for the tie change, or the dates in the transcripts, to give you some ideas of what to look for when watching the film yourself. But if you want to take everything he says as truth, then that is your right.

Guess what? I was not aiming that remark at you or any other individual poster. There have been several threads about this film already, with many posters going into detail about what they think the film is going to say.

It is just one of my personal pet peeves: that people willingly jump on a bandwagon without any first hand knowledge of the subject.

It was not that long ago that someone posted that Barbara Walters was going to do a "reality show" on adoption. WELL ! that thread went on for pages and pages of outrage, although the show had not even yet aired. Turned out it was not a reality show of course. Simply a segment of 20/20 which followed a young woman as she decided which couple she would have adopt her baby.

I thought the FOX review I provided showed that some people might be mistaken in their preconceptions of this movie.

 

[jrydberg]

Then again, Newsweek's analysis shows that Moore is pretty much dead wrong on several key points, notably Bush's supposed ties to Bin Laden and that Bush supposedly allowed special charter flights with prominent Saudis to leave the country before airspace was open again after 9/11 and without any security screening.

Given Moore's reputation, I don't think I really need to see it to make the judgement that it's not worth my $8.

P.S. I'm perfectly willing to listen to reasoned arguments that oppose my point of view. But A) I'm not willing to pay to do so and B) Moore isn't exactly the poster boy for reasoned argument.

 

[Aimeedyan]

I wish that people wouldn't comment on things that they know NOTHING about. Just because someone reads a review on something does NOT mean they know anything about it. Not just on this board, but in general. Since when do people feel educated enough to make allegations against someone or something based off of some review in some newspaper, that mind you, has their OWN political agenda behind it as well??? How sad that we've gotten to that point!!!!!

Over the past week or two, I feel like we're beating a dead horse on this movie. If you don't want to see it, fine, dont. But dont comment about it, either. If you do, great, see it, THEN come and have informed discussions with others who HAVE seen it.

Gosh, i got my panties all in a wad - I apologize. I've been holding it in for awhile =)

 

[jrydberg]

Pardon me, but I'll comment about anything I please. If you don't like it, feel free to ignore it. But my comments are hardly based in ignorance. Moore's own comments plus detailed critiques by those who have seen the film, pointing out factual errors or misrepresentations seem to me to be relevant.

 

[Nancy]

This is a public forum...we all can say pretty much what we want as long as we follow the guidlines. IF I don't want to see a movie based on a review then that is my right...and IF I want to discuss why I don't want to see a movie, that is also my right.

What is very annoying is there are some people here that gwet very nasty and self rightious and it is getting very childish. I for one and tired of reading all these political bashingb threads from both sides of the spectrum. I won't read anymore. And if the CB continues to go this way I probably won't stop by as much.

I don't mind a good debate where both sides have valid points...but this is just getting rediculous.

 

[Aimeedyan]

I KNOW that you can and will write whatever you want, it just surprises me that people do! LOL

Like I said, not just here, but everywhere... people in general always feel that it's their right to comment on anything and everything, regardless of whether they know what they're talking about...

And how do you KNOW that the "report" you read is right, if you haven't seen it yourself to verify that THEY are right? Doesn't make any sense to me... *shrugs*

just a pet peeve! no need to take it personal

one more thought - i do agree that the back and forth is getting old, this is actually the first I've jumped in mainly because it's gotten old... I feel it'll get worse before the election is over, and then it'll just be over other things... I just half wonder if we wouldn't have so much of that if people really waited until they were full informed before throwing out comments, you know? if that would alleviate alot of the misunderstandings and arguments.

 

[jrydberg]

Well, since I saw Moore's own comments on "This Week With George Stephanopolous" and Newsweek's article deals with some of the exact same things he said on the TV program, I think it's fair to say the report was accurate in its treatment of Moore's material. Either that or Moore was inaccurate

 

[faithinkarma]

Then again, Newsweek's analysis shows that Moore is pretty much dead wrong on several key points, notably Bush's supposed ties to Bin Laden and that Bush supposedly allowed special charter flights with prominent Saudis to leave the country before airspace was open again after 9/11 and without any security screening.

If you saw the ABC interview then you heard Moore say that, although air space had been opened for commercial fights, it had not for charter flights, when these charter flights took off. And you also heard Moore say that SOME of the Saudis had been interviewed by the FBI, but MORE had not. Since no one has yet disputed these statements, would it not be FAIR to take them into consideration also?

 

[hrh_disney_queen]

I can't wait to see this film. Unfortunately, the podunk town that I live in will probably not have it available at EITHER of the 2 - 20-screen cineplexes we have. They didn't run "Bowling For Columbine", and I suspect that the conservatives in this town will have some way of preventing the showing of Fahrenheit 9/11, too.

 

[Eeyore1954]

One does not necessarily need to see this film before making a judgment about it. All one needs to do is consider what Mr. Moore has done previously, i.e., look at this track record. It's been shown that he has a propensity for rather creative editing and for turning an alleged documentary into a soapbox for his own opinions. By observing what he has done in the past, it's fairly safe to conclude what he will do in this film. (JMO) Like others, I don't need to waste my hard-earned money on confirm what I already know. (Again, JMO)

 

[jrydberg]

If you saw the ABC interview then you heard Moore say that, although air space had been opened for commercial fights, it had not for charter flights, when these charter flights took off. And you also heard Moore say that SOME of the Saudis had been interviewed by the FBI, but MORE had not. Since no one has yet disputed these statements, would it not be FAIR to take them into consideration also?

The 9/11 commission report disputes those statements. Moore's comments in response to that are simply that the 9/11 commission's report isn't final yet.

 

[acepepper]

'Fahrenheit 9/11' Gets Standing Ovation
By Roger Friedman / FOXNews.com
Tuesday, June 15, 2004


The most indelible is Bush's reaction to hearing on the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, that the first plane had crashed into the World Trade Center. Bush was reading to a grade-school class in Florida at that moment. Instead of jumping up and leaving, he instead sat in front of the class, with an unfortunate look of confusion, for nearly 11 minutes. Moore obtained the footage from a teacher at the school who videotaped the morning program. There Bush sits, with no access to his advisers, while New York is being viciously attacked. I guarantee you that no one who sees this film forgets this episode.

Frightening but at the same time, not surprising.

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by acepepper
'Fahrenheit 9/11' Gets Standing Ovation
By Roger Friedman / FOXNews.com
Tuesday, June 15, 2004


The most indelible is Bush's reaction to hearing on the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, that the first plane had crashed into the World Trade Center. Bush was reading to a grade-school class in Florida at that moment. Instead of jumping up and leaving, he instead sat in front of the class, with an unfortunate look of confusion, for nearly 11 minutes. Moore obtained the footage from a teacher at the school who videotaped the morning program. There Bush sits, with no access to his advisers, while New York is being viciously attacked. I guarantee you that no one who sees this film forgets this episode.

Frightening but at the same time, not surprising.

Yet another no win situation. If he'd lept to his feet and raced off, he'd been blasted for scaring the children. If he sat and waited for more information, he's blasted for not reacting soon enough. Can't please everyone no matter what you do.

Everyone has seen the footage. I would not characterize his look as one of confusion, but rather one of shock. BTW, he had plenty of access to his advisers, including his chief of staff, Andy Card. Just who do you think told him about the news in the first place? Gotta love Moore's & other's attempts to rewrite history.

 

[faithinkarma]

Originally posted by jrydberg
The 9/11 commission report disputes those statements. Moore's comments in response to that are simply that the 9/11 commission's report isn't final yet.

The commission, in what is NOT its final report, said that the Saudis were questioned. 30 of them were questioned. No one has disputed that NOT ALL ( less than half ) were questioned. No one has disputed that air space was not yet opened to charter flights.

 

[faithinkarma]

Originally posted by acepepper
'Fahrenheit 9/11' Gets Standing Ovation
By Roger Friedman / FOXNews.com
Tuesday, June 15, 2004


The most indelible is Bush's reaction to hearing on the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, that the first plane had crashed into the World Trade Center. Bush was reading to a grade-school class in Florida at that moment. Instead of jumping up and leaving, he instead sat in front of the class, with an unfortunate look of confusion, for nearly 11 minutes. Moore obtained the footage from a teacher at the school who videotaped the morning program. There Bush sits, with no access to his advisers, while New York is being viciously attacked. I guarantee you that no one who sees this film forgets this episode.

Frightening but at the same time, not surprising.

I cannot fault him for this. He was in a room full of small children. He simply went on auto pilot for a brief period. Yes, he looked confused to me, but I am not willing to judge anyone based on my interpretation of a "look" on their face.

 

[disneydad2]

Originally posted by faithinkarma
The commission, in what is NOT its final report, said that the Saudis were questioned. 30 of them were questioned. No one has disputed that NOT ALL ( less than half ) were questioned. No one has disputed that air space was not yet opened to charter flights.

I'm still not sure why that matters when the charter flight left? Can anybody give me some theories on its importance?

 

[acepepper]

Originally posted by Eeyore1954
Yet another no win situation. If he'd lept to his feet and raced off, he'd been blasted for scaring the children. If he sat and waited for more information, he's blasted for not reacting soon enough. Can't please everyone no matter what you do.

Everyone has seen the footage. I would not characterize his look as one of confusion, but rather one of shock. BTW, he had plenty of access to his advisers, including his chief of staff, Andy Card. Just who do you think told him about the news in the first place? Gotta love Moore's & other's attempts to rewrite history.

He sat there for eleven minutes, ELEVEN MINUTES. This is the President of the USA, who's just heard his country is under attack. In that context eleven minutes is an eternity. He didn't have to jump up and start running around like a headless chicken, he could have quietly made his excuses and left in a dignified manner. Not sat there like a frightened rabbit waiting for someone else to make a decision for him.

 

[faithinkarma]

Originally posted by disneydad2
I'm still not sure why that matters when the charter flight left? Can anybody give me some theories on its importance?

Remember how all flights were forbidden for a short while? How many Americans, who were in mid-flight when the attack happened, were rerouted to Newfoundland, and stuck there until the ban on flights was lifted? For several days as I recall.

And once the ban was lifted on commercial flights, it remanined in place (and rightfully so) longer for charter flights. It was still forbidden for charter flights to take off, when the Saudis left on charter flights. The rules were broken for these people. That is the significance...they of all people, shoulld not have been allowed to break the rules.

 

[disneydad2]

Originally posted by acepepper
'Fahrenheit 9/11' Gets Standing Ovation
By Roger Friedman / FOXNews.com
Tuesday, June 15, 2004


Bush was reading to a grade-school class in Florida at that moment. Instead of jumping up and leaving, he instead sat in front of the class, with an unfortunate look of confusion, for nearly 11 minutes.

Confused, shock, concern. All these emotions will appear the same on a persons face. As far as why he didn't rush away? To where? He has access to anybody he needs access to right there. He was given breaking information and waited for an accessment of what's happening. Then he can make an informed decision on what to do next. Exactly what a Commander-in-Chief is expected to do.

And don't believe for a minute that any president is ever more than seconds away from access to his cabinet. 24/365