Explosions and shootings in Paris

[gwynne]

That's not how I took it. But again, lots of people here, no doubt, are offended by some of the comments here. Let's continue to have a meaningful, respectful conversation without cherry picking what we're going to be outraged about. No doubt, we're all learning some things and trying to understand where people are coming from.

I had no intent to offend. Just to be clear, I stand with the victims.
And now, back to the discussion. It's valuable, and we don't want it to be shut down.

 

[cabanafrau]

This is correct, as to my understanding, as well. I can't explain it as eloquently as someone like Geoff can, but here's my rudimentary take on it. (And I don't have time for more today, it's extremely complex. Feel free to correct if I am wrong, or expound on my comments.)

The modern roots go way back to the 1940s and 50s (and before). During the Cold War, Russia invaded Afghanistan. We, in turn, helped the rebels fighting the invaders. (Sounds sort of familiar, right?) Afghanistan was left in ruins, and the mostly young men of that time in that area began to form Al Queda, with Osama Bin Laden as one of the leaders. (There is so much more to this, obviously.) There had been calls by leaders for jihad by mujahideen against the West and others seen as infiels or non-believers. Much went on in the 80s and 90s, till now. Several years back ISIS was formed. This can explain it way better than I: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/22/syria-iraq-incubators-isis-jihad

Also as I understand it those are not the same as the Syrian rebel forces, which to my understanding did not morph into ISIS.

 

[sunshinehighway]

That's not how I took it. But again, lots of people here, no doubt, are offended by some of the comments here. Let's continue to have a meaningful, respectful conversation without cherry picking what we're going to be outraged about. No doubt, we're all learning some things and trying to understand where people are coming from.

Maybe you should stop telling people what they are allowed to post about,

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Come on!!

^ Letting it go...

 

[cabanafrau]

Maybe you should stop telling people what they are allowed to post about,

I'm not the brightest bulb in the box when it comes to remembering posters here. But I can say from reading the comment and from "knowing" this poster, she wasn't trying to tell anybody what they could or could not post about, merely trying to ask for civil discussion, not take a swipe at anybody.

 

[gwynne]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/19/europe/paris-attacks-at-a-glance/

Thursday's updates from CNN include:
"French police are carrying out a search at the home of the mother of the female suicide bomber who died in Wednesday's raids. The house is in Aulnay-sous-Bois."

"French police searched a home in Charleville-Mezieres, according to a team from CNN affiliate France 3. Residents said they heard an explosion, and police cordoned off the neighborhood for most of the afternoon..."

It's interesting to me how the investigators work through clues that lead to clues. I hope names and locations continue to turn up.
It has to be so frightening for residents to hear these explosions. So not what we associate with daily life in France.


Finally, this from the end of the CNN link: "Papillary prints -- which include prints from fingers, palms and soles -- led officials to identify Abaaoud's remains, the French prosecutor's office announced Thursday in a statement."

Interesting. It sounds like the authorities did have prints. They also mention they aren't sure whether or not he blew himself up.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I'm not the brightest bulb in the box when it comes to remembering posters here. But I can say from reading the comment and from "knowing" this poster, she wasn't trying to tell anybody what they could or could not post about, merely trying to ask for civil discussion, not take a swipe at anybody.

Maybe that's the case but to call out someone else for "cherry picking" what to be offended about when someone made disgusting comments is bull. Then to turn around and call me out for saying how disgusting those comments were, again bull.

Regardless of where you stand on all these issues, the idea that anyone in that concert hall "taunted the devil" and that's why that massacre happened should be considered offensive.

 

[cabanafrau]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/19/europe/paris-attacks-at-a-glance/

Thursday's updates from CNN include:
French police are carrying out a search at the home of the mother of the female suicide bomber who died in Wednesday's raids. The house is in Aulnay-sous-Bois.

French police searched a home in Charleville-Mezieres, according to a team from CNN affiliate France 3. Residents said they heard an explosion, and police cordoned off the neighborhood for most of the afternoon,

It's interesting to me how the investigators work through clues that lead to clues. I hope names and locations continue to turn up.

It has to be so frightening for residents to hear these explosions. So not what we associate with daily life in France.

Your post just scrambled my brain . . .

Yesterday's female suicide bomber was initially reported as cousin/girlfriend, "He's not my boyfriend!" and this morning announced as the sister. Reading the Daily Mail article linked above about the dead architect's youth and family reveals a mom returned to Morocco, a little brother drawn into barbarism and an estranged father and sister. Which now begs the question, do we know who the dead female was?

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Your post just scrambled my brain . . .

Yesterday's female suicide bomber was initially reported as cousin/girlfriend, "He's not my boyfriend!" and this morning announced as the sister. Reading the Daily Mail article linked above about the dead architect's youth and family reveals a mom returned to Morocco, a little brother drawn into barbarism and an estranged father and sister. Which now begs the question, do we know who the dead female was?

The article stated the sister wished he was dead, didn't it? (no time to read back right now)

 

[cabanafrau]

The article stated the sister wished he was dead, didn't it? (no time to read back right now)

Yes, referring to an earlier rumor he had died some months back, I believe in Syria. Which leads me to believe his sister would not have been with him in the apartment yesterday wearing a suicide vest --- and scratching my head as to who the media, or the authorities, are saying the dead female bomber was?

 

[pryncess527]

The article stated the sister wished he was dead, didn't it? (no time to read back right now)

Yes, it did. She apparently has a successful business and is integrated into Belgian society. She and her parents publicly disavowed him long before these attaks.

 

[pryncess527]

Yes, referring to an earlier rumor he had died some months back, I believe in Syria. Which leads me to believe his sister would not have been with him in the apartment yesterday wearing a suicide vest --- and scratching my head as to who the media, or the authorities, are saying the dead female bomber was?

Looks like she was a cousin? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...xtrovert-nicknamed-Cowgirl-love-big-hats.html

Hasna Ait Boulahcen, 26, blew herself to pieces during the siege of Saint Denis after anti-terror police closed in on the safehouse where she was hiding with her cousin, who masterminded the Paris attacks.

 

[cabanafrau]

Looks like she was a cousin? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...xtrovert-nicknamed-Cowgirl-love-big-hats.html

Thanks. Apparently today's big wheel returns to cousin again, this time complete with name and age. That whole family must be reeling on multiple levels.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Looks like she was a cousin? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...xtrovert-nicknamed-Cowgirl-love-big-hats.html

I thought initial reports were that she came out shooting (and that she killed the police dog). Looks now (at least according to this version) like she yelled "help me" and "I'm not his girlfriend" and was then "blown up" by a suicide belt? I can't help but wonder if someone else was holding the remote, if this is true. Sounds like she and her cousin were blown to smithereens so it might be a little difficult to discern (via "parts", anyway).

 

[pryncess527]

I thought initial reports were that she came out shooting (and that she killed the police dog). Looks now (at least according to this version) like she yelled "help me" and "I'm not his girlfriend" and was then "blown up" by a suicide belt? I can't help but wonder if someone else was holding the remote, if this is true. Sounds like she and her cousin were blown to smithereens so it might be a little difficult to discern.

I wonder if someone else was holding the remote too. Based on the description of her in the Daily Mail, she wasn't really into Islam, she was a party girl who liked to have fun -- hard to imagine a person like that being so dedicated to the idea of ISIS they'd be willing to die for it. Though her brother did say she sounded like she'd given up on life . . . We'll probably never know.

 

[cabanafrau]

Maybe that's the case but to call out someone else for "cherry picking" what to be offended about when someone made disgusting comments is bull. Then to turn around and call me out for saying how disgusting those comments were, again bull.

Regardless of where you stand on all these issues, the idea that anyone in that concert hall "taunted the devil" and that's why that massacre happened should be considered offensive.

Sometimes it's tricky to get a meeting of the minds with our written words. I know I have difficulty understanding a lot of the time -- and struggle to be understood a good deal as well.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I wonder if someone else was holding the remote too. Based on the description of her in the Daily Mail, she wasn't really into Islam, she was a party girl who liked to have fun -- hard to imagine a person like that being so dedicated to the idea of ISIS they'd be willing to die for it. Though her brother did say she sounded like she'd given up on life . . . We'll probably never know.

Somehow hooked up with the wrong crowd. I'm wondering about the 13 year old brother, too. Do we know his whereaobouts?

And btw, there were reports/pictures of the oldest brother leaving his condolences at memorials in Paris.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Sometimes it's tricky to get a meeting of the minds with our written words. I know I have difficulty understanding a lot of the time -- and struggle to be understood a good deal as well.

Maybe but the sentiment expressed by that other posters is something that is starting to pop up and it goes back to extremists of another kind. It should be called out for what is it.

 

[cabanafrau]

I thought initial reports were that she came out shooting (and that she killed the police dog). Looks now (at least according to this version) like she yelled "help me" and "I'm not his girlfriend" and was then "blown up" by a suicide belt? I can't help but wonder if someone else was holding the remote, if this is true. Sounds like she and her cousin were blown to smithereens so it might be a little difficult to discern (via "parts", anyway).

I wonder if someone else was holding the remote too. Based on the description of her in the Daily Mail, she wasn't really into Islam, she was a party girl who liked to have fun -- hard to imagine a person like that being so dedicated to the idea of ISIS they'd be willing to die for it. Though her brother did say she sounded like she'd given up on life . . . We'll probably never know.

Based on the fact her dress and behavior showed the likely hallmarks of radicalization in recent months I wouldn't discount help me as an attempt to draw officers in to be blown up with her.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

"Opinions" have run the gamut. Both "sides". Whatever happened to "tolerance"? We can disagree with opinions without going all Rambo on someone. We "got" that a lot of people disagreed with that opinion. Fine. I'm sure if the thread continues, there will be more. Fine. What's wrong with saying you disagree, presenting your own opinion in contrast, and moving on? No biggie. People are expressing themselves here. If we start to pile on, others' opinions will be squashed and many posters won't post. This, no doubt, is why religion and politics were banned here in the first place. If we can't listen to others' opinions, how are we ever, as a society, going to move forward?