Explosions and shootings in Paris

[Geoff_M]

I wonder if someone else was holding the remote too. Based on the description of her in the Daily Mail, she wasn't really into Islam, she was a party girl who liked to have fun -- hard to imagine a person like that being so dedicated to the idea of ISIS they'd be willing to die for it. Though her brother did say she sounded like she'd given up on life . . . We'll probably never know.

However, seeing as how the story also said that it appears that she started wearing "Islamic" clothing about a month ago, it would seem that "something" happened to cause her to develop a more conservative stance in her worldview. (Note: I'm not saying that Islamic clothing = "terrorist", just to be clear.) It may be that much of the observations about her wild-n-crazy lifestyle may have been outmoded at the end. You can also question whether her pleas for help and to appear as "not one of them" may have been an attempt to draw in police officers as an attempt to increase the body count when the the button was pressed. Lastly, I'm also not sure how common place "wireless" suicide vests are in the world... particularly when "hard wire" setups are much cheaper, easier to make, and more reliable.

 

[cabanafrau]

Maybe but the sentiment expressed by that other posters is something that is starting to pop up and it goes back to extremists of another kind. It should be called out for what is it.

Sorry, I'm not following. As far as the initial reference to the song, I'll take the poster at their word and accept I just don't understand the point they tried to make, that's not unusual for me.

 

[cabanafrau]

"Opinions" have run the gamut. Both "sides". Whatever happened to "tolerance"? We can disagree with opinions without going all Rambo on someone. We "got" that a lot of people disagreed with that opinion. Fine. I'm sure if the thread continues, there will be more. Fine. What's wrong with saying you disagree, presenting your own opinion in contrast, and moving on? No biggie. People are expressing themselves here. If we start to pile on, others' opinions will be squashed and many posters won't post. This, no doubt, is why religion and politics were banned here in the first place. If we can't listen to others' opinions, how are we ever, as a society, going to move forward?

Using our words and talking it out are some of the hallmarks of a civilized society.

 

[cabanafrau]

The Daily Mail article about yesterday's female suicide bomber says she's Europe's first female. Didn't they just tell us over the weekend there was one amongst Friday's attackers?

 

[sunshinehighway]

Sorry, I'm not following. As far as the initial reference to the song, I'll take the poster at their word and accept I just don't understand the point they tried to make, that's not unusual for me.

The sentiments expressed by the poster are something that's starting to pop up on websites by extremists of a different religion. Basically they are saying the concert goers were singing a song pledging allience to Satan and it's their own fault he showed up.
Personally I find those types of opinions no different than the religious extremists saying Charlie Hebdo was the fault of the magazine for mocking Muhammad.

 

[CPanther95]

The sentiments expressed by the poster are something that's starting to pop up on websites by extremists of a different religion. Basically they are saying the concert goers were singing a song pledging allience to Satan and it's their own fault he showed up.
Personally I find those types of opinions no different than the religious extremists saying Charlie Hebdo was the fault of the magazine for mocking Muhammad.

It's hard enough to keep up with the opinions on this thread without importing things popping up on other websites to argue about. I would respond with your opinion on those websites directly to the people saying those ridiculous things.

 

[erin1715]

I don't really appreciate being called an extremist but I'm willing to just bow out of this and move back on topic....

ETA: Actually I don't mind being called an extremist in the sense that my own personal beliefs are strong and may be considered extreme to some in this day and age (which I cannot share on here), but I don't appreciate being called that in comparison of other religions who wish death upon others.

 

[sunshinehighway]

It's hard enough to keep up with the opinions on this thread without importing things popping up on other websites to argue about. I would respond with your opinion on those websites directly to the people saying those ridiculous things.

What are you talking about? Someone on this thread brought those things up.

 

[cabanafrau]

The sentiments expressed by the poster are something that's starting to pop up on websites by extremists of a different religion. Basically they are saying the concert goers were singing a song pledging allience to Satan and it's their own fault he showed up.
Personally I find those types of opinions no different than the religious extremists saying Charlie Hebdo was the fault of the magazine for mocking Muhammad.

I understand what you are saying and in an overall sense I agree. As I said, I'll take the poster at their word they were trying to make a different point that eludes me. You're entitled to be offended and if you're reading it from that viewpoint I understand that. I also see why it's valid to leave room you've reached the wrong conclusion about the comment, particularly when it was specifically stated that was not the meaning.

 

[CPanther95]

What are you talking about? Someone on this thread brought those things up.

Seems you supplied a meaning and interpretation based on what you are reading on other websites - then applied it to a poster here. Maybe I read your post wrong.

Either way, it's giving something far more life in this thread than it got organically.

 

[Geoff_M]

The Daily Mail article about yesterday's female suicide bomber says she's Europe's first female. Didn't they just tell us over the weekend there was one amongst Friday's attackers?

It may be hair splitting, but you could argue that the female last week was primarily "A shooter that had a suicide vest as an solo 'exit' mechanism", and the female today that only had a vest and tried to use it against the police.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Seems you supplied a meaning and interpretation based on what you are reading on other websites - then applied it to a poster here. Maybe I read your post wrong.

Either way, it's giving something far more life in this thread than it got organically.

its sad that it didn't get attention expect by one other poster who was the reprimanded. It's vile.

Now continue with your hatefilled discussion.

 

[SparklePixie]

its sad that it didn't get attention expect by one other poster who was the reprimanded. It's vile.

Now continue with your hatefilled discussion.

You seem to be taking this awfully personally. Whether I agree with it or not, it is her opinion. You don't have to like it, but stop trying to derail the thread when others are trying to have a civil, thought provoking conversation.

 

[cabanafrau]

It may be hair splitting, but you could argue that the female last week was primarily "A shooter that had a suicide vest as an solo 'exit' mechanism", and the female today that only had a vest and tried to use it against the police.

Exploring your options in the field of law?

 

[SparklePixie]

However, seeing as how the story also said that it appears that she started wearing "Islamic" clothing about a month ago, it would seem that "something" happened to cause her to develop a more conservative stance in her worldview. (Note: I'm not saying that Islamic clothing = "terrorist", just to be clear.) It may be that much of the observations about her wild-n-crazy lifestyle may have been outmoded at the end. You can also question whether her pleas for help and to appear as "not one of them" may have been an attempt to draw in police officers as an attempt to increase the body count when the the button was pressed. Lastly, I'm also not sure how common place "wireless" suicide vests are in the world... particularly when "hard wire" setups are much cheaper, easier to make, and more reliable.

I agree it was a way to kill police officers by drawing them further into the apartment.

 

[Geoff_M]

Exploring your options in the field of law?

There are those that often think I missed my true field of calling!

 

[cabanafrau]

There are those that often think I missed my true field of calling!

I have friends and coworkers urging me to pursue it.

Sure. I have one kid in college, another one heading there next year, my DH is in grad school, I'm a grizzled old crone & you think I should head for law school now?

 

[NHdisneylover]

I think student visas might be another good topic for discussion.
Personally, I'm not too alarmed by widows and small children that come in as refugees.
Able- bodied young men here to attend school on a student visa might be worth some consideration-is this a good program?

(note: I have not read past this post yet as it is hard for me to go back and quote under the new system; my apologies if I am repeating something someone else has already said)

So many recent terrorist attacks have had women and/or children (as young as 12 or so) as suicide bomber that I am not so sure that makes you any safer. Besides, I really do not see how it is right to deny anyone safe haven based on gender or really even age. As a mother I would be equally desperate to get my teen son as my teen daughter out of Nigeria or Syria or any other highly dangerous area.

 

[asta]

Since this issue was discussed here earlier I thought this might be interesting. Sen. Warner from Virginia is pointing out problems with the Visa Waiver Program. I am not sure this is a solution but does highlight that the problem with ISIS is not just with refugees.

https://fcw.com/articles/2015/11/18/warner-visa-waiver-paris.aspx?m=2

I would also like to point out and hopefully without getting too political that it is possible to call for measures exercising more caution about who we let into our country without getting to some of the ugly rhetoric I have heard today. I know I can't specifically mention it here but some ugly things have been said.

 

[Art 1]

I think student visas might be another good topic for discussion.
Personally, I'm not too alarmed by widows and small children that come in as refugees.
Able- bodied young men here to attend school on a student visa might be worth some consideration-is this a good program?

Widows and children killed and maimed quite a few GI's in Vietnam. If fact females were some the Viet Congs most hard core fighters.