Even Disney Is Worried About the High Cost of a Disney Vacation

[BrianL]

In the nomenclature of the Unofficial Guide: This is Not To Be Missed. We thought it was exceptional.

I will say that Universal has always excelled at the stunt shows. Waterworld at Universal Hollywood conitnues to be impressive, and it has been around for quite some time. I figure it's more popular than the movie ever was!

I miss the Sinbad show at Islands too.

 

[Cfabar1]

While I do not think it is exceptional, I do think it is fun, and that Beauty & the Beast is worse...

And Frozen is literally a sing-a-long....

Disney-MGM studios was meant to be an attraction light, show heavy park. Going as a child and looking in on the animators was one of my most cherished memories.

Then they decided it should become the "thrill ride" park - which they could do but still haven't built out all the capacity it needs...

In my view it is currently the weakest of the parks.... And is likely to remain so until Disney can wrest the Marvel rights back from Universal, or somehow get the DC rights for WDW...

To be fair, nobody watches movies anymore, so the original premise wouldn't work today... But I do think a park centered around several "worlds" - Lucasfilm, Pixar, Marvel would make a lot of sense with a healthy dose of "Hollywood glam" thrown in could work....

 

[LAS2AMS]

While I do not think it is exceptional, I do think it is fun, and that Beauty & the Beast is worse...

And Frozen is literally a sing-a-long....

Disney-MGM studios was meant to be an attraction light, show heavy park. Going as a child and looking in on the animators was one of my most cherished memories.

Then they decided it should become the "thrill ride" park - which they could do but still haven't built out all the capacity it needs...

In my view it is currently the weakest of the parks.... And is likely to remain so until Disney can wrest the Marvel rights back from Universal, or somehow get the DC rights for WDW...

To be fair, nobody watches movies anymore, so the original premise wouldn't work today... But I do think a park centered around several "worlds" - Lucasfilm, Pixar, Marvel would make a lot of sense with a healthy dose of "Hollywood glam" thrown in could work....

DHS was a response to Universal building a clone of its Hollywood complex in Orlando. Both were built primarily to be working movie studios, as Hollywood execs believed Florida would become the next big thing for film production. It didn’t and within 5 years Universal began converting it to mostly a theme park. Disney continued to pretend it was a major film studio for a couple more decades, although they downsized the flagship tour within a year or so of the park’s opening.

DHS was always intended to have attractions. Toontown was to be built where Sunset Blvd is today. It would’ve featured three major attractions, plus The Red Trolly Car (later built at DCA). DHS was also going to have an E-ticket Dick Tracy attraction in an area themed after Chicago (allegedly where RnRC is now).

DYS was designed before then Disney Renaissance and was very heavy on Dick Tracy and Roger Rabbit as Eisner believed they would become major franchises.

As always, Disney killed the budget for DHS and most of the attractions were cancelled. A slimed down version of Toontown went ahead at DL, as did the Dick Tracy ride - but themed after Indy Jones instead.

 

[Elijah Abrams]

DHS was a response to Universal building a clone of its Hollywood complex in Orlando. Both were built primarily to be working movie studios, as Hollywood execs believed Florida would become the next big thing for film production. It didn’t and within 5 years Universal began converting it to mostly a theme park. Disney continued to pretend it was a major film studio for a couple more decades, although they downsized the flagship tour within a year or so of the park’s opening.

DHS was always intended to have attractions. Toontown was to be built where Sunset Blvd is today. It would’ve featured three major attractions, plus The Red Trolly Car (later built at DCA). DHS was also going to have an E-ticket Dick Tracy attraction in an area themed after Chicago (allegedly where RnRC is now).

DYS was designed before then Disney Renaissance and was very heavy on Dick Tracy and Roger Rabbit as Eisner believed they would become major franchises.

As always, Disney killed the budget for DHS and most of the attractions were cancelled. A slimed down version of Toontown went ahead at DL, as did the Dick Tracy ride - but themed after Indy Jones instead.

They should move the Red Car Trolley to DHS, now that it no longer operates at DCA.

 

[NickC]

WDW hasn’t changed much in 10 years.

I find it to be completely different. A lot of my favorite things have changed or have been removed.

 

[LAS2AMS]

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[Jrb1979]

There’s a difference between theoretical and actual capacity. If the lion’s share of seats at Muppet Vision sit empty, it does nothing to attract people into the park or alleviate congestion on other rides. If the replacement draws crowds… well, there you go.

All of the attentions WDW replaced received neutral or negative favorability ratings and had declining attendance.

Disney sells nostalgia. Disney’s biggest fanatics hate change. Disney-MGM Studios was built as a working studio but never filled that role, other than a few niche projects. The Studio Backlot Tram Tour quickly became a ride through portions of backstage and props Disney acquired. It was a very expensive attraction to operate (Catastrophe Canyon) and saw little attendance in later years. Even though the attractions that replaced the area it formerly occupied are wildly popular, Disney fanatics cling to nostalgia and complain about its demise.

Because building a $10B fifth theme park while keeping DHS stacked with aging, expensive (to operate and maintain) and unpopular attractions is somehow going to lower prices.

It's not about lowering prices. What most want is the value that a Disney vacation used to have, with perks for staying on site

As far as nostalgia goes, for my family the problem is not so much new additions are bad. We love most of what's coming. Our problem is placement for most of them. What made us love Disney parks was how each park was different and had a unique theme to each one. Now that's mostly gone and it's about getting IP in with no rhyme or reason. Cars doesn't fit Frontierland.

For capacity, everyone goes on about how Disney raising prices as the only way to help with crowding. What about adding more attractions to each park other than MK? Not every ride needs to be an E ticket. All parks need IMO close to 30 attractions to help with crowds. They need more Dumbo level attractions. Fill out the parks.

 

[irlandaise]

As far as nostalgia goes, for my family the problem is not so much new additions are bad. We love most of what's coming. Our problem is placement for most of them. What made us love Disney parks was how each park was different and had a unique theme to each one. Now that's mostly gone and it's about getting IP in with no rhyme or reason. Cars doesn't fit Frontierland.

Gosh, you mean you don't remember the famous Earp Brothers NASCAR racing team???

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

It's not about lowering prices. What most want is the value that a Disney vacation used to have, with perks for staying on site

As far as nostalgia goes, for my family the problem is not so much new additions are bad. We love most of what's coming. Our problem is placement for most of them. What made us love Disney parks was how each park was different and had a unique theme to each one. Now that's mostly gone and it's about getting IP in with no rhyme or reason. Cars doesn't fit Frontierland.

For capacity, everyone goes on about how Disney raising prices as the only way to help with crowding. What about adding more attractions to each park other than MK? Not every ride needs to be an E ticket. All parks need IMO close to 30 attractions to help with crowds. They need more Dumbo level attractions. Fill out the parks.

i think Dis has been adding pretty consistently by means of expanding the total footprint of the parks (which should help spread out crowds), and by adding attractions. I think it's missing the point to say that they need to cram rides into the parks the example that comes to mind that i believe fits your narrative is aladins magic carpets, it adds a ton of congestion to that area, point being it really doesn't solve a problem. The multipronged approach of spreading out the foot traffic along with adding rides, shows, restaraunts, ect seems to be having the desired effect

 

[Minnie1222]

Raising prices is the quickest way to reduce crowds. I think the world population and the amount of disposable incomes are growing faster than Disney's expansion rate. People were laughing at the Premier Passes, but they have been selling out more than I ever expected.

 

[New Mouse]

Raising prices is the quickest way to reduce crowds. I think the world population and the amount of disposable incomes are growing faster than Disney's expansion rate. People were laughing at the Premier Passes, but they have been selling out more than I ever expected.

The premiere pass selling out screams 1 time visitor to me. Not sure it's good for the long term

 

[LAS2AMS]

The premiere pass selling out screams 1 time visitor to me. Not sure it's good for the long term

I’m not sure about that. We have veteran WDW visitors on this forum who recommend paying for ride shares / MinnieVans over taking Disney shared transportation to save “previous Disney time.” I always considered the bus ride to be part of the Disney experience. You’re in WDW, not sure why anybody who has been on IASM 1,000 times thinks spending $100 on a MinnieVan is worth it to ride it 1,001…

 

[LAS2AMS]

It's not about lowering prices. What most want is the value that a Disney vacation used to have, with perks for staying on site

As far as nostalgia goes, for my family the problem is not so much new additions are bad. We love most of what's coming. Our problem is placement for most of them. What made us love Disney parks was how each park was different and had a unique theme to each one. Now that's mostly gone and it's about getting IP in with no rhyme or reason. Cars doesn't fit Frontierland.

For capacity, everyone goes on about how Disney raising prices as the only way to help with crowding. What about adding more attractions to each park other than MK? Not every ride needs to be an E ticket. All parks need IMO close to 30 attractions to help with crowds. They need more Dumbo level attractions. Fill out the parks.

Disney has never provided value. It’s long positioned itself as a premium product. You’re paying for Disney and people expect Disney, which is why Disney IP is now so central. People complained for years about Epcot lacking Disney IP. They want Radiator Springs, not Test Track presented by General Motors.

How does Radiator Springs not fit into Frontierland? You do realize that Tom Sawyer Island, the Davey Crockett Explorer Canoes and the Mike Fink Keel Boats were cleverly integrated into RoA by Walt… to promote Disney IP?

The kneel boats and canoes were retired years ago. Tom Sawyer Island is such a wasteland - closes at dusk, closes whenever it storms… which is pretty much the entire summer. Makes plenty of sense Disney is doing something more exciting with the land. If you miss it,’it’ll live on at Disneyland. Walt never wanted the MK to mirror DL, anyway.

 

[irlandaise]

How does Radiator Springs not fit into Frontierland? You do realize that Tom Sawyer Island, the Davey Crockett Explorer Canoes and the Mike Fink Keel Boats were cleverly integrated into RoA by Walt… to promote Disney IP?

Uh, TSI and those rides are about actual people or fictional characters from the frontier and post-frontier eras. The Southwestern topography of Radiator Springs (the Cadillac Mountains) would fit fine into that theme. Automobiles, not so much.

 

[LAS2AMS]

Uh, TSI and those rides are about actual people or fictional characters from the frontier and post-frontier eras. The Southwestern topography of Radiator Springs (the Cadillac Mountains) would fit fine into that theme. Automobiles, not so much.

The concept of the lands has long evolved. When Walt designed DL, the era of cowboys and Indians were popular with kids. But today?

Earlier today the OCR reminded me of one of my favorite quotes:

“Guests want everything to stay the same, just as they remember the first time they ever came,” Imagineering art director Kim Irvine said in the Disney+ docuseries. “But that’s really not a good idea because things become stale. Walt wanted all of these attractions to be updated. He kept saying you’ve got to keep this thing alive, fresh and new.”

 

[Minnie1222]

The premiere pass selling out screams 1 time visitor to me. Not sure it's good for the long term

We already have Disney veterans confirming their purchases on the LLPP thread. The reviews are all positive. One person even wrote that they had the best trip in 15 years. Most likely the PP will continue to be popular like the express passes at Universal. Once you go express, it's difficult to go back to standby.

 

[irlandaise]

The concept of the lands has long evolved. When Walt designed DL, the era of cowboys and Indians were popular with kids. But today?

Earlier today the OCR reminded me of one of my favorite quotes:

“Guests want everything to stay the same, just as they remember the first time they ever came,” Imagineering art director Kim Irvine said in the Disney+ docuseries. “But that’s really not a good idea because things become stale. Walt wanted all of these attractions to be updated. He kept saying you’ve got to keep this thing alive, fresh and new.”

I have no issue with updating rides or adding new ones. But the place is called "Frontierland."

 

[clarker99]

We have a mid-century European castle at the end of Main Street USA... but Frontierland is the hill to die on in terms of theming/IP mash-ups. Lol.

 

[BrianL]

We have a mid-century European castle at the end of Main Street USA... but Frontierland is the hill to die on in terms of theming/IP mash-ups. Lol.

Yeah, I kind of agree. While I am not necessarily crazy about Cars going into that location, I don't really have a big fuss about it being a little off-thme. I can see it as a sub-land, like Storybook Circus is to Fantasyland. Those two are different - one with trains and planes, and one set generally before that. Frontierland can have "The Old West" and "The High Desert" or something. Heck, Tiana's is set in like 1910 or something. Sure, I get that it can be a little incongruous, but it's not really that big of a deal in the end. It's certianly not the hill I want to die on.

 

[irlandaise]

We have a mid-century European castle at the end of Main Street USA... but Frontierland is the hill to die on in terms of theming/IP mash-ups. Lol.

Not going to die on it. I'll only be visiting Cars Land in California, so it won't even affect me. But the castle is far from the only object that's visible from a differently themed area; I was talking about the theming within an area.

I am glad that WDW visitors will be able to experience the very fun Radiator Springs Racers ride! Be sure to do it at night, too.