Even Disney Is Worried About the High Cost of a Disney Vacation

Yes, those rides had capacity but it was never utilized! GoG replaced Ellen which ran at what, 5% capacity most days. All right maybe 10% on a hot day because it was a nice dark, cool, long ride perfect for the mid-day Disney nap 🤣 🤣 . All the new rides soak up so much more capacity than the previous rides did towards the end of their lives.
 
That's true. However, other attractions in those parks closed and have not been replaced. Like the Wonders of Life in Epcot and Stitch's Great Escape at Magic Kingdom.
So are we talking last 5 years now or last 20? Wonders of Life has been abandoned since 2007 and Stitch since 2018.

Clearly the every day guests that aren’t frequenting these forums notice their absence.
 
Yes, Disney World has opened a number of new attractions in the last 5 years. However, they were replacements for older attractions that closed. Not new rides that increased capacity at the parks.

There’s a difference between theoretical and actual capacity. If the lion’s share of seats at Muppet Vision sit empty, it does nothing to attract people into the park or alleviate congestion on other rides. If the replacement draws crowds… well, there you go.

All of the attentions WDW replaced received neutral or negative favorability ratings and had declining attendance.

Disney sells nostalgia. Disney’s biggest fanatics hate change. Disney-MGM Studios was built as a working studio but never filled that role, other than a few niche projects. The Studio Backlot Tram Tour quickly became a ride through portions of backstage and props Disney acquired. It was a very expensive attraction to operate (Catastrophe Canyon) and saw little attendance in later years. Even though the attractions that replaced the area it formerly occupied are wildly popular, Disney fanatics cling to nostalgia and complain about its demise.

Because building a $10B fifth theme park while keeping DHS stacked with aging, expensive (to operate and maintain) and unpopular attractions is somehow going to lower prices.
 
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There’s a difference between theoretical and actual capacity. If the lion’s share of seats at Muppet Vision sit empty, it does nothing to attract people into the park or alleviate congestion on other rides. If the replacement draws crowds… well, there you go.

All of the attentions WDW replaced received neutral or negative favorability ratings and had declining attendance.

Disney sells nostalgia. Disney’s biggest fanatics hate change. Disney-MGM Studios was built as a working studio but never filled that role, other than a few niche projects. The Studio Backlot Tram Tour quickly became a ride through portions of backstage and props Disney acquired. It was a very expensive attraction to operate (Catastrophe Canyon) and saw little attendance in later years. Even though the attractions that replaced the area it formerly occupied are wildly popular, Disney fanatics cling to nostalgia and complain about its demise.

Because building a $10B fifth theme park while keeping DHS stacked with aging, expensive (to operate and maintain) and unpopular attractions is somehow going to lower prices.
Keep back lot tour out of your mouth haha, I loved that ride almost as much as the great movie ride. In the end though I could understand why they did what they did
 

I agree about the staffing, the problem is that Florida minimum wage is $14.00 ($8.46 in 2019 which is roughly a 40% increase) so Disney has to drive up their rate of pay to actually entice people to work for them. This puts a wrench in hiring levels as they'd have to increase prices to bring in the same number of workers they had pre-pandemic which ultimately leads to people complaining that they are paying way more for at best the same value they used to get. Ultimately this isn't just a pandemic issue but became an issue because of the pandemic for sure.
I get that it cost them more for castmembers, but Disney has also increased their prices by a large percentage and cut a lot of services. All the money that they are raking in with paid fast pass should cover the extra cast member costs. Furthermore, Universal has had to deal with the same wage increase but whenever I am at Universal, I never feel that they are cutting corners. There's still stilt walkers outside the Mummy ride and people talking in the double-decker bus, and construction workers dancing in the streets. They have added night time shows to Islands of Adventure and offer their Macy's holiday parade and Mardi Gras parades. There are dinosaur-like creatures wandering Jurassic World and people from Seussland in Seussland. Universal's parks and bathrooms are well kept. I have always been able to find a friendly employee to help me when I had a probelm or question (I lost my hat the last time I was there). Somehow, Universal makes it work and I don't feel like they increased their prices nearly as much.

But even before Covid, we saw a decline at Disney in the cleanliness of the bathrooms and parks and a change in the cast members (cast members not speaking English and unable to answer questions about the park). When I worked at Disney, you were expected to know where everything in the park was located so that you can give directions and know about what food was served where and where you could purchases merchandise. You had to know the parade time and closing time, etc). I remember getting frustrated because we couldn't find cast members that knew answers to our questions or gave us wrong answers.

Anyway, I still feel like Disney has cut costs to the point that the value isn't there. As someone else pointed out, AK and MGM Studios used to have fantastic parades every day (I loved the Toy Story and Alladin ones). There are no parades there any more. They used to have a famous actor drive down Hollywood Blvd in a cavalcade each day. There used to be wandering performers. None of that is there.
 
I get that it cost them more for castmembers, but Disney has also increased their prices by a large percentage and cut a lot of services. All the money that they are raking in with paid fast pass should cover the extra cast member costs. Furthermore, Universal has had to deal with the same wage increase but whenever I am at Universal, I never feel that they are cutting corners. There's still stilt walkers outside the Mummy ride and people talking in the double-decker bus, and construction workers dancing in the streets. They have added night time shows to Islands of Adventure and offer their Macy's holiday parade and Mardi Gras parades. There are dinosaur-like creatures wandering Jurassic World and people from Seussland in Seussland. Universal's parks and bathrooms are well kept. I have always been able to find a friendly employee to help me when I had a probelm or question (I lost my hat the last time I was there). Somehow, Universal makes it work and I don't feel like they increased their prices nearly as much.

But even before Covid, we saw a decline at Disney in the cleanliness of the bathrooms and parks and a change in the cast members (cast members not speaking English and unable to answer questions about the park). When I worked at Disney, you were expected to know where everything in the park was located so that you can give directions and know about what food was served where and where you could purchases merchandise. You had to know the parade time and closing time, etc). I remember getting frustrated because we couldn't find cast members that knew answers to our questions or gave us wrong answers.

Anyway, I still feel like Disney has cut costs to the point that the value isn't there. As someone else pointed out, AK and MGM Studios used to have fantastic parades every day (I loved the Toy Story and Alladin ones). There are no parades there any more. They used to have a famous actor drive down Hollywood Blvd in a cavalcade each day. There used to be wandering performers. None of that is there.

You’re downplaying cost. Not only has the compensation nearly doubled in a relatively short time period, the number of cast and production staff bas grown as well. We live in a very complaint era, and it takes people to ensure compliance. I’ve read that each Fantasmic show has up to 50% more staff than when it debuted 33 years ago, which is incredible given technological advances.

Other costs have increased as well. Insurance costs have swelled. The cost of fireworks has too. And the cost of being compliant and insuring productions with fireworks….

Hence why we’re seeing a shift away from entertainment at times. Universal is not an exception. It’s an industry trend.

Oh, and English was never required for every employee group. We had plenty of “Mousekeepers” in the 1990s that spoke very little of it. I’d say there’s a much larger percentage today. Gotta remember… in those days, Orlando’s population was small so Disney took what they could get. I keep hearing about labor shortages, but this is one of the few times in WDW history they haven’t had open positions for many entry level jobs.
 
This is not directing at anyone, but I think it's unfair to make a Universal vs Disney comparison if the guests have not been to Disney in years. There are plenty of performers and roaming characters at Disney. Cast members are still awesome. No need to keep finding faults with Disney just because you don't like the cost. If Universal is more enjoyable, then please go have fun.
 
This is not directing at anyone, but I think it's unfair to make a Universal vs Disney comparison if the guests have not been to Disney in years. There are plenty of performers and roaming characters at Disney. Cast members are still awesome. No need to keep finding faults with Disney just because you don't like the cost. If Universal is more enjoyable, then please go have fun.
The roaming performers definitely took a step back at Disney until last year it seems like, but when they were back they were BACK. it was really great to see my 5 year old with them without having to wait in long lines and just playing around, I think that was a huge drop off from Covid, the cavalcades and distanced greetings just weren’t the same
 
I get that it cost them more for castmembers, but Disney has also increased their prices by a large percentage and cut a lot of services. All the money that they are raking in with paid fast pass should cover the extra cast member costs. Furthermore, Universal has had to deal with the same wage increase but whenever I am at Universal, I never feel that they are cutting corners. There's still stilt walkers outside the Mummy ride and people talking in the double-decker bus, and construction workers dancing in the streets. They have added night time shows to Islands of Adventure and offer their Macy's holiday parade and Mardi Gras parades. There are dinosaur-like creatures wandering Jurassic World and people from Seussland in Seussland. Universal's parks and bathrooms are well kept. I have always been able to find a friendly employee to help me when I had a probelm or question (I lost my hat the last time I was there). Somehow, Universal makes it work and I don't feel like they increased their prices nearly as much.

But even before Covid, we saw a decline at Disney in the cleanliness of the bathrooms and parks and a change in the cast members (cast members not speaking English and unable to answer questions about the park). When I worked at Disney, you were expected to know where everything in the park was located so that you can give directions and know about what food was served where and where you could purchases merchandise. You had to know the parade time and closing time, etc). I remember getting frustrated because we couldn't find cast members that knew answers to our questions or gave us wrong answers.

Anyway, I still feel like Disney has cut costs to the point that the value isn't there. As someone else pointed out, AK and MGM Studios used to have fantastic parades every day (I loved the Toy Story and Alladin ones). There are no parades there any more. They used to have a famous actor drive down Hollywood Blvd in a cavalcade each day. There used to be wandering performers. None of that is there.
I would say that HS still has a lot of characters roaming around, we saw a couple just randomly signing photographs out of the blue the last time we were there, Star Wars land has a lot of things going on and AK does have performers and puppeteers roaming as well. It’s not what it was. It in some ways maybe a bit better, in others a little worse.

I wouldn’t say Disney is being cheap, it’s just changed (that happens in every entertainment business, new generations bring new requests and expectations of their own so there has to be a give and take, I don’t see anyone clambering for Barbie to come back to Epcot or dick tracey in HS haha).

It’s too easy to say that you don’t like something a company is doing therefore they must be cheap and greedy, I personally thinks it’s a bit more complicated than that
 
I wouldn’t say Disney is being cheap, it’s just changed (that happens in every entertainment business, new generations bring new requests and expectations of their own so there has to be a give and take, I don’t see anyone clambering for Barbie to come back to Epcot or dick tracey in HS haha).
Bring Back the Ninja Turtles!!!!


IMG_6191.jpeg

But seriously I have also seen an increase back closer to what was in terms of characters being around and interactive things with castmembers and guests. It’s not the same as what I grew up with, but it’s now a new thing I get to experience through my kids like my parents before me.

Do I like everything that Disney has done/is doing, no. My kids will still ask to go back because they’re falling in love with things that didn’t exist when I was younger as well as the things that are still there that I loved growing up. When that stops, we’ll put more of our travel dollars into the other places we visit
 
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I would say that HS still has a lot of characters roaming around, we saw a couple just randomly signing photographs out of the blue the last time we were there, Star Wars land has a lot of things going on and AK does have performers and puppeteers roaming as well. It’s not what it was. It in some ways maybe a bit better, in others a little worse.

I wouldn’t say Disney is being cheap, it’s just changed (that happens in every entertainment business, new generations bring new requests and expectations of their own so there has to be a give and take, I don’t see anyone clambering for Barbie to come back to Epcot or dick tracey in HS haha).

It’s too easy to say that you don’t like something a company is doing therefore they must be cheap and greedy, I personally thinks it’s a bit more complicated than that

They lost a lot of cash flow as a result of COVID and made numerous cuts including entertainment, parking lot trams, less water taxis runs, etc. Most of these cuts have been reversed when many of us didn’t think they’d return.

People forget that parades were added to DHS because there wasn’t much to. Today, there’s tons more character appearances in Galaxy’s Edge and Toy Story Land, and they’re committed to increasing GE.

Things change. Can’t live in the past…
 
Bring Back the Ninja Turtles!!!!


View attachment 942672

But seriously I have also seen an increase back closer to what was in terms of characters being around and interactive things with castmembers and guests. It’s not the same as what I grew up with, but it’s now a new thing I get to experience through my kids like my parents before me.

Do I like everything that Disney has done/is doing, no. My kids will still ask to go back because they’re falling in love with things that didn’t exist when I was younger as well as the things that are still there that I loved growing up. When that stops, we’ll put more of our travel dollars into the other places we visit

They shortened the Studio Backlot Tour and added TMNT and Honey I Shrunk The Kids because there was very little to do at the MGM Studios :). Same reason Sorcery In The Sky and the Aladdin parade were added. Cheap, tacky experiences that people cling to for nostalgia. Just like Pocahontas and Her Forrest Friends.

MGM Studios was to feature a replica of DL’s Indy ride as well as Toontown, but Eisner pulled the plug on the attractions (as well as the completion of DL’s ToonTown) leaving very little to do. The Red Trolly Car, which just closed at DCA, was based on an opening day MGM Studios attraction that was eventually cancelled.
 
We are at DLR staying at VDH and I can say that cost doe not seem to be an obstacle to attendance here. The parks are packed. All reservations were sold out for today. Many families with kids. We spent the afternoon visiting the other hotels and the lobbies were hopping.
 
People forget that parades were added to DHS because there wasn’t much to. Today, there’s tons more character appearances in Galaxy’s Edge and Toy Story Land, and they’re committed to increasing GE.
I’d argue DHS needs a parade…. There’s so little for young kids to do at DHS… A parade is a great way to eat up some time and a fun way to spend time in the park…
 
I’d argue DHS needs a parade…. There’s so little for young kids to do at DHS… A parade is a great way to eat up some time and a fun way to spend time in the park…
I don't disagree, but at the same time that park is offered primarily to tweens, teens, and younger adults. It depends how they want to market it moving forward, i would argue they are trying to compete more directly with a Uni when it comes to that park in particular. There is a million other things to do in their other parks for little ones, so to me it could go either way and i would accept it
 
I’d argue DHS needs a parade…. There’s so little for young kids to do at DHS… A parade is a great way to eat up some time and a fun way to spend time in the park…
I wouldn't say no to a parade, but I don't think it's necessary. The kids already have their green soldiers mini-parade in Toy Story Land. There will be a Mermaid musical coming later this year that will take up more guests.
 
I wouldn't say no to a parade, but I don't think it's necessary. The kids already have their green soldiers mini-parade in Toy Story Land. There will be a Mermaid musical coming later this year that will take up more guests.
Yes, and the new Villains show perhaps can help too…

I wonder what the long term plan is for Beauty & The Beast… It feels so tired…
 
A related story today.

https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/travel/travel-plans-costs-impact-cbff9fbe?mod=hp_lead_pos11

Rising Costs Take Their Toll on Less-Affluent Americans’ Travel Plans
International travel remains strong, but some are scrimping on U.S. vacations

By Allison Pohle and Alison Sider
Feb. 28, 2025 - 9:00 am EST

Some families are getting priced out of spring break.

Rising costs for leisure travel are weighing on a growing share of would-be vacationers to delay spring and summer bookings. Consumer sentiment has started to slide, weighed down by tariff threats, persistent inflation and layoffs in the public and private sectors.

People signaling plans to go on vacation dropped to the lowest level since 2021, according to the Conference Board’s Consumer Confidence Index released this week.

The share of Americans citing personal financial reasons and the overall costs as reasons they aren’t traveling hit 12-month highs, according to market-research firm Future Partners, which polled 4,000 travelers in January.

This doesn’t mean people are scrapping trips altogether. Wealthy Americans continue to spend big on far-flung international travel. The Future Partners survey found that travel will be a high budget priority for more than half of respondents in the next three months.

Airlines have been charging higher fares in recent months. Last year, carriers flooded some routes with added seat capacity and then had to offer deep discounts to fill them. Now they have pulled back some flights, and the more restrained supply has bolstered prices.

The average round-trip airline ticket during the spring-break period from mid-March to mid-April is $820 for domestic cities, up 7% from last year, and $1,440 for international destinations, up 2% from last year, according to AAA booking data.

Julie Drake typically travels with her husband and children over spring break. This year, they will stay home. The 40-year-old nursing consultant from Rockford, Ill., hoped to make use of a discount for a Disney cruise, and started looking into options last year. But airfare for four averaged about $3,000, for flights from Chicago to San Diego or Miami.

Drake considered driving to Milwaukee, or even to Detroit, to fly from there, but the cost savings didn’t add up. The cost for four round-trip flights and cruise tickets on their spring break dates would total $10,000, she said. Her family gives priority to travel and making memories together, but can’t justify the trip with current prices.

“With all of the uncertainty in our country right now, I have a fear of spending a large amount of money when we don’t know what the future holds,” she said.

Airlines say they aren’t worried about waning demand.

“There is nothing that discourages us about either the short-term trajectory or the full-year trajectory,” said United Airlines Chief Financial Officer Mike Leskinen. The strong U.S. dollar has bolstered appetite for international travel, both for business and leisure customers. But domestic leisure demand, often the most price-sensitive customer segment, isn’t as sparkling.

Families have gotten creative about cross-country travel to make the numbers work.

Emma O’Sullivan, an attorney at a nonprofit in New Mexico, took her family of four, including two small children, on a two-week Amtrak trip across the country last summer. They took the train from Albuquerque, N.M., to Chicago, then on to Buffalo, N.Y., and Boston to visit family. The three train segments for four coach passengers cost under $1,000, which she said was less than driving and staying in hotels along the route.

This summer, they will likely stick closer to home, either visiting family in Los Angeles or taking a short trip to the Grand Canyon.

To O’Sullivan, it is worth the time spent mapping out how they can “do this in a way that’s affordable and comfortable and still be connected to our loved ones,” she said.

Financial stress may be having a bigger chilling effect on lower income consumers, some analysts said.

Mark Fioravanti, chief executive of Ryman Hospitality Properties, called out price sensitivity in the company’s earnings call last week. Attendance for the company’s Christmas programming was up compared with last year, but those consumers were more price-sensitive than the company expected, which led to a decline in overnight stays compared with 2023, he said. The company owns the Grand Ole Opry and the Ryman Auditorium in Nashville, Ten

Philip Bradford, a 35-year-old urban planner, typically travels to two new countries each year, but doesn’t have any trips booked right now.

Bradford recently moved to Washington, D.C., from the West Coast, but lost his job after self-funding the move. His priority for this year is paying off debt and, ideally, saving up to buy a house. Still, Bradford hopes to fit in an international trip this year, potentially to Thailand.

“I love travel; it’s my main hobby, but there are things that are a little bit more important right now,” he said.

Write to Allison Pohle at allison.pohle@wsj.com and Alison Sider at alison.sider@wsj.com
 
Universal's parks and bathrooms are well kept. I have always been able to find a friendly employee to help me when I had a probelm or question
You must be going to a far different universal than we go to. I love Universal it's always a big part of our vacation but there customer service and cleanliness are no where near Disney. Do you have the occasional great employee absolutley but there few and far between. When I go to Universal I set my expectations levels pretty low and occasionally there exceded but not usually. I would never stop me from going

Disney sells nostalgia. Disney’s biggest fanatics hate change
LOL, If it was up to people on this board we would end up back at ticket books.
 










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