DVC point balancing 2022 vs 2021

[New Mouse]

When I bought the product and read all the documents, a lot more recently, I was told up and down but that seasonal changes and weekends and such could impact that chart year to year but overall, number of points at the resort don’t change. Did they mean number of points sold doesn’t change or points in the chart? I can’t say because I didn’t ask that at that time.

It is why years with a leap year made sense to me to see more points in the charts...there was an extra day..and attributed it to the notion of changes based on the calendar.

You can contact a sales guide today as a mystery customer and get your answer to that question. I bet you a mickey bar you will get the answer I suspect.

Again, in theory if what they told you when you inquired is true, their entire salesforce should have been made aware of this change and their marketing and sales techniques should have changed accordingly.

 

[Sandisw]

You can contact a sales guide today as a mystery customer and get your answer to that question. I bet you a mickey bar you will get the answer I suspect.

Again, in theory if what they told you when you inquired is true, their entire salesforce should have been made aware of this change and their marketing and sales techniques should have changed accordingly.

Just added another sentence to my post since you quoted to expand on what I was told by the guides based on what I asked at the time so I’ll just say it here too!

If i could get. 5 nights for 100 points when I bought in a studio, I would always be able to get 5 nights for a 100 points in a studio, just may not be the same nights or time period I was traveling.
.

 

[drusba]

When one reviews the key POS documents -- the exhibit to the Master Co-Tenancy Agreement, the DVC Membership Agreement and Product Understanding Checklist, one should conclude: (a) DVD, at the time the resort first goes on sale, creates a seasonal point chart with the seasons and days of the year within each season in that point chart and that is used to create the total ownership interests and total points applicable to the entire resort; (b) DVCM, the management company, then finishes that process by spreading total points among the rooms and days of the year to create a base-year point chart in which total points needed to reserve every room in the resort for every night of the resort in the 365-day base year equal the total points applicable to all ownership interests; (c) thereafter the total points to reserve all rooms in any calendar year may be higher than those in the base year only to the extent that such results from the natural changes in the calendar from year to year; (d) neither DVD nor DVCM are given any power at all to change the seasons or days within a season, to create a new base year after one is already in place, or do any acts which would raise total points to reserve all rooms in any calendar year above those in the base year; (e) once the base year is created when the resort goes on sale, only DVCM thereafter has any power to change the points needed to reserve any room in any given night to a higher or lower number, but that power is expressly limited by the requirement that any increase (or decrease) for any modified nights must be offset by an equal decrease (or increase) in other nights, i.e., DVCM's sole power to change points is limited to doing an act which cannot itself result in an increase or decrease in total points for the year.

In other words, DVC, DVCM, and DVD lack any power to create new point charts with new seasons, and any increase in total points in a calendar year above the base year can occur only as a result of the natural changes in the annual calendars, not as a result of any specific act committed by a DVC entity. Those rules were followed until the 7-season point charts were created (although one attempt was made to possibly violate the rules when DVC tried to create new point charts, later withdrawn after members objected, for 2020 that raised points for studios and 1BRs almost year-round). Before the existence of the 7-season point charts, total points in a calendar year were at times somewhat greater than those in the base year because either (a) it was leap year which added points for Feb 29 since the base year was a 365-day year, or (b) some years have one more weekend day than other years, and some years have more weekend days than other years in the higher point seasons, which resulted in points for the calendar year to be higher than the base year.

Mentioned above is that the change in the Easter dates in the 5-season chart resulted in raising points in many years in the past. That is untrue. The two Easter weeks moved annually as Easter moved in March and April but those two weeks were always in the highest point (premier) season and thus, as far as those two weeks go, the movement of the Easter date did not change the annual total. Moreover, all days in March and April that came before or after those two Easter weeks were always in "magic" season, having the same point per night point totals regardless of when Easter occurred. The result was that the annual change in the Easter date never actually changed total points per year.

With the 7-season point charts, DVCM got clever in trying to find a way to have total points in most calendar years be higher than those in a base year, which would then create the opportunity to have more open rooms in the year available to rent for profit. It created (or relied on) a new base year, 2035, when Easter is March 25. March 25 is the earliest Easter can possibly be at any time during at least the next 50 years, and for 48 of those next 50 years Easter is always later than March 25, and, in most of those years, Easter is in April. DVCM put all days in March or April that are before the two Easter weeks (which run from the Sunday, a week before Easter, to the Saturday after Easter), in higher point season 6, and put all days in April after the two Easter weeks in lower point season 5. The result is as follows:

1. The 2035 base year has 16 days in March before the two Easter weeks that are in higher-point season 6 and all 30 days in April in lower-point season 5. For every year that Easter is later than March 25, which is 48 of the next 50 years, the number of days in the two months that will be in higher point season 6 before the two Easter weeks is higher than 16 and the number of days in lower point season 5 will be lower than 30. Thus, for 48 of the next 50 years, total points to reserve all rooms in March and April will be greater than those found in the base year for March and April, and thus total points to reserve all rooms for the calendar year will be greater than those found in the base year.

2. The shift of points changes from year to year and, in 2038, when Easter is at its latest, April 25, there will be 46 days in March and April before the two Easter weeks that will be in higher point season 6 and no days at all in lower point season 5.

3. This increase in total points, resulting from DVCM's decision to create new 7-season point charts that purposefully use the change in the Easter date to change total points per year, was first noticed by many when the 2022 point charts were released. Easter was April 4 in 2021 and will be April 17 in 2022, and thus there will be 11 more days in March and April in higher-point season 6 in 2022 than in 2021, and 11 fewer days in lower point season 5 that are after the two Easter weeks.

4. When total points to reserve the calendar year are greater than the base year total, the opportunity is created for DVCM to potentially have more rooms to rent for profit.

Some believe the change made was allowed. DVC has even mentioned the "excuse" that the variance in total points is simply due to the natural changes in the calendar annually, i.e., the annual change in the date for Easter. The problem with that excuse is that the "act" that actually caused the annual increase in points was DVC's decision to create new 7-season point charts that heavily rely on the change in the Easter date to annually increase points above those in any base year. If DVC's new interpretation of the POS and rules is correct, then nothing can stop it from creating new point charts in the future that add total points in calendar years above those in any base year by: (a) raising points in January that are before MLK day while lowering them for days in Jan after MLK day, and thus as MLK day (always the third Monday of January) moves from its earliest possible date, January 15, to its latest, January 21, total points needed to reserve all of Jan will increase; (b) make the same kind of change in May for the movement of Memorial Day; (c) make the same kind of change in October for the movement of Columbus Day; (d) make the same kind of change for days in November due to the movement of the date for Thanksgiving. In essence, DVC's new claim of right to create new point charts with new seasons could lead to even much greater increases in total points than those that exist now with only the change in the Easter date.

The 5-season charts never relied on the annual change of holiday dates, such as Easter, to raise total points needed to reserve all rooms for the year. A probable reason for that is that DVC, for almost 30 years, likely thought that would be improper and would violate DVC's obligation not to purposefully do acts that would require total points to reserve all rooms in a calendar year to be greater than those in a base year, The modern DVC, which has previously demonstrated in the last decade that is it is willing to do harm to members to aid in the increase of profits (e.g., various acts committed in the last decade to take away rights and privileges of resale purchasers), has apparently decided otherwise.

 

[ford91exploder]

Its sad that its come to this, but DVC has been rapidly devolving since 2015 (remember also thats when the change to the annual meeting format took place) right now DVC is actually hostile to the best interests of members.

 

[lovethesun12]

In other words, DVC, DVCM, and DVD lack any power to create new point charts with new seasons, and any increase in total points in a calendar year above the base year can occur only as a result of the natural changes in the annual calendars, not as a result of any specific act committed by a DVC entity. Those rules were followed until the 7-season point charts were created (although one attempt was made to possibly violate the rules when DVC tried to create new point charts, later withdrawn after members objected, for 2020 that raised points for studios and 1BRs almost year-round). Before the existence of the 7-season point charts, total points in a calendar year were at times somewhat greater than those in the base year because either (a) it was leap year which added points for Feb 29 since the base year was a 365-day year, or (b) some years have one more weekend day than other years, and some years have more weekend days than other years in the higher point seasons, which resulted in points for the calendar year to be higher than the base year.

This is the main question I have. How is it legal to change the terms under which the contract was signed when the authority to change those terms isn't outlined specifically?

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

There has been point fluctuations for all of dvcs life based on holidays and weekends. Its now inflated more because of easter.

They didn't "raise points" its all based on where the easter week premium lands.

Could they switch back to 5 seasons? Yes. Could they readjust the seasons every year based on easter? Probably. Does mid to late April have less demand than March so it makes sense to put it in a different season? Yes.

I called and voiced my concerns and feel they were taken with a grain of salt. I personally don't belive what they did is 100% in the best interest of its members. I also think there is a lot of behind the scenes legal things we do not know about with what dvc can and can't do based on timeshare law.

The only legal point differentiations from year to year are for leap year. What they did for the new chart is 100% illegal, but, unless we sue, it appears they do not care. We live in a world where laws apply for some people and not others, and where some people respect laws and others do not. It doesn’t matter if they create 20 or 30 “seasons;” there is no reason to create points out of thin air. I could care less how many seasons they make, but overall point numbers should remain the same.

There is no time share law secret. As per their contract, they are allowed to move points around, but not create new points. Here is the contract. The language is plain as day:

“In order to meet the club members needs and expectations as evidenced by fluctuations in Use Day demand at the condominium experienced by DVCMC during a given calendar year, DVCMC may, in its sole, absolute and unfettered discretion, increase or decrease the Home Resort Point requirements for reservation of a given Use Day within a given vacation home during the given calendar year by any amount not to exceed 20% of the home resort vacation points required to reserve that Use Day during the previous calendar year; provided, however, that the total number of Home Resort Vacation Points with a given Unit at any time may not be increased or decreased because of any such reallocation.”
(my emphasis)

 

[Eldon32]

I have just recently today gotten off the phone with Yvonne @ DVC again.

I want to indicate that this is my recollection and notes from the conversation; anything quoted may not be a direct quote.

She indicated that after her team did research, they plan on releasing new 2022 point charts that will show reduction in points for the later part of the year.

I had asked if "they found an issue that would lead to this correction" to which she replied with "we didn't find anything wrong but are making adjustments based on the feedback you and a number of members have provided which will result in a net reduction of bookable points for the resorts during the 2022 year". I clarified again with her that this means the "total bookable points for the year within a resort would be less in 2022 than the point charts total to right now", and she said "yes".

I asked for a timeline...if it would be weeks or months to which she indicated, "it would unlikely be done in the next two weeks, but hopefully a few weeks...there are a lot of systems to update; and it takes time to recalculate all the resorts. But we do want to update the charts and come up with a communication for all the members".

My Take:

I'm happy Yvonne and her staff are taking some action on this; I am cautiously optimistic of how *much* the change will be. From the language she used (reading between the lines), they did NOT want to adjust any dates already available for booking and were only looking at changes from some later part of the year forward. They also stopped far short of indicating there was any "problem" found; which I can't blame them for not wanting to admit anything. I'm not here to point fingers, just help make it "right". I was also happy that she mentioned "resorts" as opposed to "resort" which should mean we should see a number of corrections.

In the end, I will wait a few weeks and see if anything comes out. If something does, and it looks close to right - then I think what we've done here was worth it. If it falls short, or nothing at all, there are still other avenues to explore. I could also argue that this has been going on for a number of years (at some smaller percentage of inflation); but I'm also a new DVC member and at some point I'm going to call it "good enough".

I want the membership here to know that it's each of you who wrote in - even without a response - are making this possible. And, I would argue that if you haven't gotten a reply yet that you are confident in, to keep pushing. The work isn't done yet; we don't know how "soon" or by "how much". Please continue to write to DVC and let them know your feelings. While I don't want to sound pessimistic, there is always the possibility of non-performance - for which I will apologize now in advance.

I spoke with Yvonne @ DVC earlier today and we chatted for about an hour.

I want to indicate that this is my recollection and notes from the conversation; anything quoted may not be a direct quote.

I can say that based on her comments; she likely reads these boards and members emails (at least some of them) as she was able to bring up many of the ideas we've postulated in this thread without prompting, which I appreciated.

At the end of this post is the email I sent to her and her team after reaching contact. Included were attachments of some of the materials that were most interesting to me on this thread, including a points worksheet for each resort (I'm sorry, I don't recall who posted it and a ton of stuff has been taken down by the owners - so I won't repost it here).

We broke the conversation into two parts:

• A: Point creation
• B: Point reallocation

We spoke through for a few minutes on how DVC comes up with a "comfort model" to determine how points are created in a resort, but agreed that much of how points were created (that is base year, square footage, ext) really don't matter to the specific part of reallocation and did not dive into this topic too much past what we already know in appendix A of the POS.

What we focused on specifically was reallocation; my main question being "what determines how points are reallocated, and how does that result in an increase year-to-year?"

Her response was what I initially expected, that holidays and higher demand periods in 2022 caused the increase in points. She indicated 2023 would be a "down point year" and that they in fact have decided to not change allocation at all for 2023. We also talked about how "rounding" can play a role in point increases [to which I replied, might account for maybe several hundred points a year]. Her overall response was that the point reallocation was good for membership.

I indicated I wasn't too concerned about looking forward, until we look back and understand what happened. Specifically around the multiple instances in the POS that indicate point increases coincide with a decrease. If we look at SSR as an example, declared vs 2022 point totals show an overall increase of 67,000 points.

She said DVCM's intent is to not continually increase points.

I brought up that if holidays are to blame; it wouldn't make sense that DVCM could just say "every day is now a high-demand day" and increase the points by any arbitrary amount without reduction anywhere else. Further, I do not see a way that DVCM can increase points year-to-year outside of a leap year due to ownership being a function of (space x time).

She agreed that DVCM could not increase the points to whatever value they wanted arbitrarily and would need to look into it some more.

I also brought up that, outside of points - "percentage of ownership" is really what the membership owns. And, this is a function of (space x time). Point charts are a simplistic way of measuring this ownership - but ultimately outside of point creation, the POS does not address point charts and in-fact addresses each and every day of the year independently.

She agreed that ownership percentage is what is being sold, but the points system is what they have been given/are using and the outcome of the points is just what has happened. She also agreed that the reallocation terms do in-fact not discuss points managed as a chart. She said that had they the ability to go back and do it again, they would have multiplied the number of points (not in a way to reduce value, but in a way to make rounding less of an issue when creating the charts).

I brought up that to membership, the point increase of 67,000 points at a single resort has a retail value at DVC's own one-time-use price of over a million dollars a year; and that in every year up to this point - DVC has met the breakage cap of 7.5% for the capital reserve account meaning that the creation of additional points has no monetary benefit to membership and in-fact decreases their overall leverage in using the resort.

She indicated none of the resorts operate at 100% occupancy and that membership has the opportunity to use breakage within the 60 days just as DVCM does. She did agree to look into if something can be done about the perception of extra revenue being drawn from the point increases.

I also brought up that there may have been no intended malice, but at a minimum - the feeling the ownership takes away - is that DVCM is benefiting. And that if the intent was purely balancing that the ~67,000 points at SSR could reduce the total daily points by ~183. I would like to know why they didn't do this.

We ended the call that she would like to get with her analysists; the team has grown significantly over the years from 5 originally and she did not have all the answers in front of her but said she would present them all the information I sent and get back to me with what has happened in the next few weeks; or at least follow up in 2-3 weeks if she doesn't have a concrete answer.



My email:

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

I will add that Pete is right when he says in that last video that dvc upper management is incompetent. He wasn’t talking about this point situation, but you see it everywhere with Dvc now. Just look at the customer service situation. What a joke of a company! At our last dvc stay a month ago the room was barely cleaned. And they are supposed to be doing extra “Covid” cleaning. Total farce. I have my ideas about how this incompetence came about, but they are not very PC ideas, so I will keep them to myself. Lol. But, in this new point chart, they are boldly stealing from members and in a sophomoric way. They think they can just BS their way through it and that members will just roll over. But these manipulations and lies will eventually collapse on them, just as the member fees situation did in Hawaii.

 

[New Mouse]

I do find it odd that the people who are supposed to be representing our interest in DVC are clearly more interested in representing Disney. IMO that conflict of interest is the real issue here.

 

[ford91exploder]

When one reviews the key POS documents -- the exhibit to the Master Co-Tenancy Agreement, the DVC Membership Agreement and Product Understanding Checklist, one should conclude: (a) DVD, at the time the resort first goes on sale, creates a seasonal point chart with the seasons and days of the year within each season in that point chart and that is used to create the total ownership interests and total points applicable to the entire resort; (b) DVCM, the management company, then finishes that process by spreading total points among the rooms and days of the year to create a base-year point chart in which total points needed to reserve every room in the resort for every night of the resort in the 365-day base year equal the total points applicable to all ownership interests; (c) thereafter the total points to reserve all rooms in any calendar year may be higher than those in the base year only to the extent that such results from the natural changes in the calendar from year to year; (d) neither DVD nor DVCM are given any power at all to change the seasons or days within a season, to create a new base year after one is already in place, or do any acts which would raise total points to reserve all rooms in any calendar year above those in the base year; (e) once the base year is created when the resort goes on sale, only DVCM thereafter has any power to change the points needed to reserve any room in any given night to a higher or lower number, but that power is expressly limited by the requirement that any increase (or decrease) for any modified nights must be offset by an equal decrease (or increase) in other nights, i.e., DVCM's sole power to change points is limited to doing an act which cannot itself result in an increase or decrease in total points for the year.

In other words, DVC, DVCM, and DVD lack any power to create new point charts with new seasons, and any increase in total points in a calendar year above the base year can occur only as a result of the natural changes in the annual calendars, not as a result of any specific act committed by a DVC entity. Those rules were followed until the 7-season point charts were created (although one attempt was made to possibly violate the rules when DVC tried to create new point charts, later withdrawn after members objected, for 2020 that raised points for studios and 1BRs almost year-round). Before the existence of the 7-season point charts, total points in a calendar year were at times somewhat greater than those in the base year because either (a) it was leap year which added points for Feb 29 since the base year was a 365-day year, or (b) some years have one more weekend day than other years, and some years have more weekend days than other years in the higher point seasons, which resulted in points for the calendar year to be higher than the base year.

Mentioned above is that the change in the Easter dates in the 5-season chart resulted in raising points in many years in the past. That is untrue. The two Easter weeks moved annually as Easter moved in March and April but those two weeks were always in the highest point (premier) season and thus, as far as those two weeks go, the movement of the Easter date did not change the annual total. Moreover, all days in March and April that came before or after those two Easter weeks were always in "magic" season, having the same point per night point totals regardless of when Easter occurred. The result was that the annual change in the Easter date never actually changed total points per year.

With the 7-season point charts, DVCM got clever in trying to find a way to have total points in most calendar years be higher than those in a base year, which would then create the opportunity to have more open rooms in the year available to rent for profit. It created (or relied on) a new base year, 2035, when Easter is March 25. March 25 is the earliest Easter can possibly be at any time during at least the next 50 years, and for 48 of those next 50 years Easter is always later than March 25, and, in most of those years, Easter is in April. DVCM put all days in March or April that are before the two Easter weeks (which run from the Sunday, a week before Easter, to the Saturday after Easter), in higher point season 6, and put all days in April after the two Easter weeks in lower point season 5. The result is as follows:

1. The 2035 base year has 16 days in March before the two Easter weeks that are in higher-point season 6 and all 30 days in April in lower-point season 5. For every year that Easter is later than March 25, which is 48 of the next 50 years, the number of days in the two months that will be in higher point season 6 before the two Easter weeks is higher than 16 and the number of days in lower point season 5 will be lower than 30. Thus, for 48 of the next 50 years, total points to reserve all rooms in March and April will be greater than those found in the base year for March and April, and thus total points to reserve all rooms for the calendar year will be greater than those found in the base year.

2. The shift of points changes from year to year and, in 2038, when Easter is at its latest, April 25, there will be 46 days in March and April before the two Easter weeks that will be in higher point season 6 and no days at all in lower point season 5.

3. This increase in total points, resulting from DVCM's decision to create new 7-season point charts that purposefully use the change in the Easter date to change total points per year, was first noticed by many when the 2022 point charts were released. Easter was April 4 in 2021 and will be April 17 in 2022, and thus there will be 11 more days in March and April in higher-point season 6 in 2022 than in 2021, and 11 fewer days in lower point season 5 that are after the two Easter weeks.

4. When total points to reserve the calendar year are greater than the base year total, the opportunity is created for DVCM to potentially have more rooms to rent for profit.

Some believe the change made was allowed. DVC has even mentioned the "excuse" that the variance in total points is simply due to the natural changes in the calendar annually, i.e., the annual change in the date for Easter. The problem with that excuse is that the "act" that actually caused the annual increase in points was DVC's decision to create new 7-season point charts that heavily rely on the change in the Easter date to annually increase points above those in any base year. If DVC's new interpretation of the POS and rules is correct, then nothing can stop it from creating new point charts in the future that add total points in calendar years above those in any base year by: (a) raising points in January that are before MLK day while lowering them for days in Jan after MLK day, and thus as MLK day (always the third Monday of January) moves from its earliest possible date, January 15, to its latest, January 21, total points needed to reserve all of Jan will increase; (b) make the same kind of change in May for the movement of Memorial Day; (c) make the same kind of change in October for the movement of Columbus Day; (d) make the same kind of change for days in November due to the movement of the date for Thanksgiving. In essence, DVC's new claim of right to create new point charts with new seasons could lead to even much greater increases in total points than those that exist now with only the change in the Easter date.

The 5-season charts never relied on the annual change of holiday dates, such as Easter, to raise total points needed to reserve all rooms for the year. A probable reason for that is that DVC, for almost 30 years, likely thought that would be improper and would violate DVC's obligation not to purposefully do acts that would require total points to reserve all rooms in a calendar year to be greater than those in a base year, The modern DVC, which has previously demonstrated in the last decade that is it is willing to do harm to members to aid in the increase of profits (e.g., various acts committed in the last decade to take away rights and privileges of resale purchasers), has apparently decided otherwise.

The first whiff of this was when they charged the points based on the highest day in your stay. Back in the begining of DVC when Dinosaurs roamed the earth, Your point spend was based on your checkin day. Sometimes you won and sometimes DVC won but it was ok because the rule was simple to understand. Then the rule changed days had different point allocations so you needed to do the math on what a stay would cost. And now... I cant even begin to describe it but from 2010 on EVERY DVC change has accrued to DVC's benefit and not the members, And especially at combined resorts I long felt that we the DVC members were paying the freight for both DVC and CRO on resort operations cost which is why Disney was so anxious to expand DVC to every possible resort because CRO's numbers would be very shiny if the resorts operating costs were shouldered by DVC members.

 

[mlayman7]

I have just recently today gotten off the phone with Yvonne @ DVC again.

I want to indicate that this is my recollection and notes from the conversation; anything quoted may not be a direct quote.

She indicated that after her team did research, they plan on releasing new 2022 point charts that will show reduction in points for the later part of the year.

I had asked if "they found an issue that would lead to this correction" to which she replied with "we didn't find anything wrong but are making adjustments based on the feedback you and a number of members have provided which will result in a net reduction of bookable points for the resorts during the 2022 year". I clarified again with her that this means the "total bookable points for the year within a resort would be less in 2022 than the point charts total to right now", and she said "yes".

I asked for a timeline...if it would be weeks or months to which she indicated, "it would unlikely be done in the next two weeks, but hopefully a few weeks...there are a lot of systems to update; and it takes time to recalculate all the resorts. But we do want to update the charts and come up with a communication for all the members".

My Take:

I'm happy Yvonne and her staff are taking some action on this; I am cautiously optimistic of how *much* the change will be. From the language she used (reading between the lines), they did NOT want to adjust any dates already available for booking and were only looking at changes from some later part of the year forward. They also stopped far short of indicating there was any "problem" found; which I can't blame them for not wanting to admit anything. I'm not here to point fingers, just help make it "right". I was also happy that she mentioned "resorts" as opposed to "resort" which should mean we should see a number of corrections.

In the end, I will wait a few weeks and see if anything comes out. If something does, and it looks close to right - then I think what we've done here was worth it. If it falls short, or nothing at all, there are still other avenues to explore. I could also argue that this has been going on for a number of years (at some smaller percentage of inflation); but I'm also a new DVC member and at some point I'm going to call it "good enough".

I want the membership here to know that it's each of you who wrote in - even without a response - are making this possible. And, I would argue that if you haven't gotten a reply yet that you are confident in, to keep pushing. The work isn't done yet; we don't know how "soon" or by "how much". Please continue to write to DVC and let them know your feelings. While I don't want to sound pessimistic, there is always the possibility of non-performance - for which I will apologize now in advance.

That sounds like another win for members, especially to those who care. I won't get too far ahead of things until we see the new charts. It is amazing how they went from everything is legit to yeah it was legit, but, because of negative feedback, we changed our minds, again. How did they think this was going to be regarded by the membership once the "truth" was out there?

I also want to say thanks to everyone else who reached out for answers this time around and especially those on the fence about it. I am glad not everyone was convinced that since it is Disney, it must be on the up and up.

Its a shame each year now, ill be anxious come point chart release period.

 

[ford91exploder]

I do find it odd that the people who are supposed to be representing our interest in DVC are clearly more interested in representing Disney. IMO that conflict of interest is the real issue here.

It's natural who signs their paycheck, Well that would be Bob Chapek so who do you think they are gonna be loyal to, Not to the DVC owners, This would be a non-issue if we could change the management company. Disney thinks it is invincible because the owners documents theoretically take away the right to sue but all that goes out the window if the courts believe illegal practices are happening.

 

[Minniemoo15]

I have just recently today gotten off the phone with Yvonne @ DVC again.

I want to indicate that this is my recollection and notes from the conversation; anything quoted may not be a direct quote.

She indicated that after her team did research, they plan on releasing new 2022 point charts that will show reduction in points for the later part of the year.

I had asked if "they found an issue that would lead to this correction" to which she replied with "we didn't find anything wrong but are making adjustments based on the feedback you and a number of members have provided which will result in a net reduction of bookable points for the resorts during the 2022 year". I clarified again with her that this means the "total bookable points for the year within a resort would be less in 2022 than the point charts total to right now", and she said "yes".

I asked for a timeline...if it would be weeks or months to which she indicated, "it would unlikely be done in the next two weeks, but hopefully a few weeks...there are a lot of systems to update; and it takes time to recalculate all the resorts. But we do want to update the charts and come up with a communication for all the members".

My Take:

I'm happy Yvonne and her staff are taking some action on this; I am cautiously optimistic of how *much* the change will be. From the language she used (reading between the lines), they did NOT want to adjust any dates already available for booking and were only looking at changes from some later part of the year forward. They also stopped far short of indicating there was any "problem" found; which I can't blame them for not wanting to admit anything. I'm not here to point fingers, just help make it "right". I was also happy that she mentioned "resorts" as opposed to "resort" which should mean we should see a number of corrections.

In the end, I will wait a few weeks and see if anything comes out. If something does, and it looks close to right - then I think what we've done here was worth it. If it falls short, or nothing at all, there are still other avenues to explore. I could also argue that this has been going on for a number of years (at some smaller percentage of inflation); but I'm also a new DVC member and at some point I'm going to call it "good enough".

I want the membership here to know that it's each of you who wrote in - even without a response - are making this possible. And, I would argue that if you haven't gotten a reply yet that you are confident in, to keep pushing. The work isn't done yet; we don't know how "soon" or by "how much". Please continue to write to DVC and let them know your feelings. While I don't want to sound pessimistic, there is always the possibility of non-performance - for which I will apologize now in advance.

WOW!! This is the best news I have read in regards to this issue thus far. Thank you so so much for reaching out and sharing a recap of your call. This is defintiely a change in tone from my last call in February with YC. Back then it was “trust us, the charts will go back down in 2023, please be patient”. I got the impression then they realized there was an issue but didn’t want to make any adjustments to the 2022 point chart.

Of course I won’t celebrate too much until the new charts are out - but this gives me a lot of hope. Unfortunately it won’t help us personally as we are already booked in with the inflated 2022 charts for next March. But hopefully we will benefit by a return to total point stability for 2023 and the years ahead.

If this comes to pass - it is a huge win for members and everyone on this thread who reached out needs to be commended - thank you all.

 

[bobbiwoz]

Thank you Eldon32 for posting.

Let‘s hope they do what she says.

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

I have just recently today gotten off the phone with Yvonne @ DVC again.

I want to indicate that this is my recollection and notes from the conversation; anything quoted may not be a direct quote.

She indicated that after her team did research, they plan on releasing new 2022 point charts that will show reduction in points for the later part of the year.

I had asked if "they found an issue that would lead to this correction" to which she replied with "we didn't find anything wrong but are making adjustments based on the feedback you and a number of members have provided which will result in a net reduction of bookable points for the resorts during the 2022 year". I clarified again with her that this means the "total bookable points for the year within a resort would be less in 2022 than the point charts total to right now", and she said "yes".

I asked for a timeline...if it would be weeks or months to which she indicated, "it would unlikely be done in the next two weeks, but hopefully a few weeks...there are a lot of systems to update; and it takes time to recalculate all the resorts. But we do want to update the charts and come up with a communication for all the members".

My Take:

I'm happy Yvonne and her staff are taking some action on this; I am cautiously optimistic of how *much* the change will be. From the language she used (reading between the lines), they did NOT want to adjust any dates already available for booking and were only looking at changes from some later part of the year forward. They also stopped far short of indicating there was any "problem" found; which I can't blame them for not wanting to admit anything. I'm not here to point fingers, just help make it "right". I was also happy that she mentioned "resorts" as opposed to "resort" which should mean we should see a number of corrections.

In the end, I will wait a few weeks and see if anything comes out. If something does, and it looks close to right - then I think what we've done here was worth it. If it falls short, or nothing at all, there are still other avenues to explore. I could also argue that this has been going on for a number of years (at some smaller percentage of inflation); but I'm also a new DVC member and at some point I'm going to call it "good enough".

I want the membership here to know that it's each of you who wrote in - even without a response - are making this possible. And, I would argue that if you haven't gotten a reply yet that you are confident in, to keep pushing. The work isn't done yet; we don't know how "soon" or by "how much". Please continue to write to DVC and let them know your feelings. While I don't want to sound pessimistic, there is always the possibility of non-performance - for which I will apologize now in advance.

This is a great sign! Anyone else get through with DVC and gotten similar answers? If they're telling other members the same thing, then it would be a really good sign.

 

[Mumof4mice]

I have just recently today gotten off the phone with Yvonne @ DVC again.

I want to indicate that this is my recollection and notes from the conversation; anything quoted may not be a direct quote.

She indicated that after her team did research, they plan on releasing new 2022 point charts that will show reduction in points for the later part of the year.

I had asked if "they found an issue that would lead to this correction" to which she replied with "we didn't find anything wrong but are making adjustments based on the feedback you and a number of members have provided which will result in a net reduction of bookable points for the resorts during the 2022 year". I clarified again with her that this means the "total bookable points for the year within a resort would be less in 2022 than the point charts total to right now", and she said "yes".

I asked for a timeline...if it would be weeks or months to which she indicated, "it would unlikely be done in the next two weeks, but hopefully a few weeks...there are a lot of systems to update; and it takes time to recalculate all the resorts. But we do want to update the charts and come up with a communication for all the members".

My Take:

I'm happy Yvonne and her staff are taking some action on this; I am cautiously optimistic of how *much* the change will be. From the language she used (reading between the lines), they did NOT want to adjust any dates already available for booking and were only looking at changes from some later part of the year forward. They also stopped far short of indicating there was any "problem" found; which I can't blame them for not wanting to admit anything. I'm not here to point fingers, just help make it "right". I was also happy that she mentioned "resorts" as opposed to "resort" which should mean we should see a number of corrections.

In the end, I will wait a few weeks and see if anything comes out. If something does, and it looks close to right - then I think what we've done here was worth it. If it falls short, or nothing at all, there are still other avenues to explore. I could also argue that this has been going on for a number of years (at some smaller percentage of inflation); but I'm also a new DVC member and at some point I'm going to call it "good enough".

I want the membership here to know that it's each of you who wrote in - even without a response - are making this possible. And, I would argue that if you haven't gotten a reply yet that you are confident in, to keep pushing. The work isn't done yet; we don't know how "soon" or by "how much". Please continue to write to DVC and let them know your feelings. While I don't want to sound pessimistic, there is always the possibility of non-performance - for which I will apologize now in advance.

Thank you for sharing your phone call!

When I asked the Club Strategy manager why the excess points couldn't be offset by reducing September, which DVCM was ostensibly trying to make more enticing, the best he could come up with was: "That would make certain rooms too attractive".

I didn't accept it as a valid excuse and told them so. Very glad DVCM decided not to push on with the dubious justifications!

 

[Bing Showei]

This is a great sign! Anyone else get through with DVC and gotten similar answers? If they're telling other members the same thing, then it would be a really good sign.

I can confirm something similar was communicated as early as late last week.

 

[achinforsomebacon]

I keep checking in here to see if there have been any updates...very pleased to finally see some progress from DVC! Hopefully they actually follow through with it and do what's right. Thanks to everyone for continuing to push for answers!

 

[DVCSunDevil]

I have just recently today gotten off the phone with Yvonne @ DVC again.

I want to indicate that this is my recollection and notes from the conversation; anything quoted may not be a direct quote.

She indicated that after her team did research, they plan on releasing new 2022 point charts that will show reduction in points for the later part of the year.

I had asked if "they found an issue that would lead to this correction" to which she replied with "we didn't find anything wrong but are making adjustments based on the feedback you and a number of members have provided which will result in a net reduction of bookable points for the resorts during the 2022 year". I clarified again with her that this means the "total bookable points for the year within a resort would be less in 2022 than the point charts total to right now", and she said "yes".

I asked for a timeline...if it would be weeks or months to which she indicated, "it would unlikely be done in the next two weeks, but hopefully a few weeks...there are a lot of systems to update; and it takes time to recalculate all the resorts. But we do want to update the charts and come up with a communication for all the members".

My Take:

I'm happy Yvonne and her staff are taking some action on this; I am cautiously optimistic of how *much* the change will be. From the language she used (reading between the lines), they did NOT want to adjust any dates already available for booking and were only looking at changes from some later part of the year forward. They also stopped far short of indicating there was any "problem" found; which I can't blame them for not wanting to admit anything. I'm not here to point fingers, just help make it "right". I was also happy that she mentioned "resorts" as opposed to "resort" which should mean we should see a number of corrections.

In the end, I will wait a few weeks and see if anything comes out. If something does, and it looks close to right - then I think what we've done here was worth it. If it falls short, or nothing at all, there are still other avenues to explore. I could also argue that this has been going on for a number of years (at some smaller percentage of inflation); but I'm also a new DVC member and at some point I'm going to call it "good enough".

I want the membership here to know that it's each of you who wrote in - even without a response - are making this possible. And, I would argue that if you haven't gotten a reply yet that you are confident in, to keep pushing. The work isn't done yet; we don't know how "soon" or by "how much". Please continue to write to DVC and let them know your feelings. While I don't want to sound pessimistic, there is always the possibility of non-performance - for which I will apologize now in advance.

Thank you for the feedback! That is great news. It is worrying that members had to fight this hard for DVC to correct something they messed up. One positive from all of this is that, hopefully, DVC sees they can't just change things without DVC owners catching it. There are way too many smart owners who see what is being done and don't accept the BS reasoning being provided by DVC.

 

[New Mouse]

Thank you for the feedback! That is great news. It is worrying that members had to fight this hard for DVC to correct something they messed up. One positive from all of this is that, hopefully, DVC sees they can't just change things without DVC owners catching it. There are way too many smart owners who see what is being done and don't accept the BS reasoning being provided by DVC.

That would be a solid bo seeing this is the x iteration of dvc trying to abuse their power in recent years. At the end of the day, the leadership is the problem. They have no morals or conscience.