DVC Future Expansion Plans

[Debbie & Bill]

I heard a rumer that DVC is in the talking stages of expansion beyond the parks again. The challenge is family destinations .


Anyone have more information?

 

[Chuck S]

I think part of the reason that HH and VB didn't do well initially was that there wasn't a large enough "member base" with only OKW as an onsite resort. Now that they have many more members that own at onsite resorts, more people will probably be looking for the occasional "not WDW" vacation, and that the number of members could possibly support another off-site resort at a popular destination. I still think, though, that they may have trouble selling that location...

If they proceed with any off-site locations, I would expect them to be smaller in scale than the original plans for VB, in extremely popular locations, and in very FEW locations. They will certainly proceed very cautiously.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Originally posted by Chuck S
Now that they have many more members that own at onsite resorts, more people will probably be looking for the occasional "not WDW" vacation, and that the number of members could possibly support another off-site resort at a popular destination. I still think, though, that they may have trouble selling that location...

Yes. Even if there may be great demand from people who would like to stay at off-site Disney Vacation Club resorts, the real issue is whether Disney Vacation Development (DVD) can profitably sell DVC memberships at off-site locations.

The Disney Vacation Clubs at Vero Beach and Hilton Head are great timeshare resorts -- but they were both business failures for Disney. These resorts took way too long to sell out, requiring Disney to pay the carrying costs of the unsold inventory. Disney had to rent out the unsold inventory at far below typical Disney prices. Without the built-in customer base that the on-site DVC resorts enjoy, Disney's marketing costs at VB and HH were too high.

Disney stopped all subsequent off-site DVC projects, including the Newport Coast, Beaver Creek, New York City, and the next phase of Vero Beach.

Consider, too, that at WDW, Disney owns a vast amount of land that was acquired in the 1960s for next to nothing. But, away from WDW, DVD faces high land acquisition costs for desirable timeshare resort sites. So the cost structure is less favorable to begin with.

I'm sure there are people at DVD who would like to see another off-site resort. But I really wonder if the folks in Burbank who control the corporate capital are willing to make such an investement.

 

[Debbie & Bill]

An interesting observation is the new DVC sales office at Sarratoga, it's new big expencive and by Downtown Disney. It also resembles the Marriotts with world maps and lights.

I would like to have the ability to vist other DVC properties trading into interval is not that easy.

 

[PatMcDuck]

Even if it were fairly small, I would like to see a DVC at DL.

 

[DebbieB]

Originally posted by Debbie & Bill
An interesting observation is the new DVC sales office at Sarratoga, it's new big expencive and by Downtown Disney. It also resembles the Marriotts with world maps and lights.

I would like to have the ability to vist other DVC properties trading into interval is not that easy.

I think that's a keyword - visit. Many members would probably love to visit a DVC resort in say Hawaii, but would they buy points there? For DVD to build, they have to have the expectation that they would be able to recoup construction costs by selling points quickly. So the question isn't where would you like to see DVD build for you to visit, it's where would you like to see them build to buy points? When Beach Club Villas opened, people were knocking down the doors to buy points there. If they built at the Contemporary, it would be the same thing. But would they rush to buy points elsewhere? I could see Disneyland where there's already a strong Disney presence, but not anywhere else.

 

[raidermatt]

Selling timeshares in Hawaii, particularly high end ones, has not been a problem.

There are probably a lot of folks who own DVC that would love to visit Hawaii.

I'm also sure there are lots who want to own in HI but would love to visit WDW. I know that Westin makes a point of highlighting its Orlando-area properties in its sales pitch.

I've always thought that HI would be the most logical non-Disney place for DVC to build, if they chose to do so.

The problem with HH and VB, in my humble uneducated opinion, is that they are more regional destinations, and therefore are not very complementary to the reach of WDW.

I think Hawaii, on the other hand, would fit in quite well. Lots of market overlap and both are premium destinations in the timeshare world.

Of course, a lot of this is also the reason why there's been speculation that Disney would sell DVC to one of the larger vacation club players, like Marriott. Most of the big players would kill to have properties on-site at WDW.

Its the one tangible advantage Disney could have over any other competitor. So it follows that eventually either Disney would take advantage of it, or profit off of somebody else having the advantage.

I'm not saying this is imminent. I haven't heard/read anything lately, but it does make sense.

 

[anniet]

I agree with the comments that it's a reasonable expense for DVD to build on it's own property and quite another thing for them to build elsewhere. WLV and BCV were added to already existing resorts, so I imagine they were the least expensive to create.

And with the repairs that are going to have to be done at Vero Beach, I would be very surprised if DVD strayed to far from home any time soon.

 

[KNWVIKING]

I don't think there will be another off-site resort and even if there is, I don't think it will be a success - even in Hawaii.

I have no statistics to back up my theory, it's based instead on my own feelings about DVC, on information and feelings I've read about here on the Dis and the history of HH and VB.

In 1995 I fell in love with WDW. In '97 I purchased OKW knowing I planned on being back to WDW at least twice a year. My assumption is that I'm not unique. In fact, after spending a few years over on the DVC board I've come to the conclusion I'm only mildly infected with the DVC/WDW bug. I've stayed at HH & VB. Both are great resorts and we had a wonderfull time but my gut feeling is "been there,done that, someday,maybe,might be going back".

If another resort were built in a great location I can picture existing members doing small to modest add-ons so they'll have the ability to book at the 11 month window. I also think there will be a certain number of uninformed or misinformed customers that buy there expecting to easily stay at an on-property resort. I've read of people who had taken advantage of low points prices at HH with the expectation of getting into BWV at 7 months only to find themselve sorely disappointed.

I guess I've clumped the timeshare people into two groups: Disney lovers who'll also stay other places occasonally and Everybody Else who would like to "do" Disney sometime. The first group won't make a major investment without the guarantee of an on-property stay and the second group have better options thru Mariott & Hilton.

 

[laceemouse]

Well put Viking, well put....Lacee

 

[Quadman]

You also have to consider that on-site property plans probably account for some increased visitor revenue inside the parks and such. Where as off-site property plans would add nothing in terms of revenue and visitor base for the parks themselves.

The idea of allowing individuals to basically make commitments to visit the parks for the next 38-50 years probably provides at least the benefit of cheaper money (as well as other possibilities) from Disney when financing the projects/property??

 

[CaptainMidnight]

Originally posted by Debbie & Bill
I heard a rumer that DVC is in the talking stages of expansion beyond the parks again. The challenge is family destinations .

Hope this is true, despite the doom and gloom responses. There's a new leader for DVC. There may be a good reason there is a new leader for DVC, to improve the direction. My opinion is offsite resorts contribute to onsite resort sales, people are hesitant to commit to going to WDW every single vacation. We don't.

 

[John Dobbertin]

Saratoga has years to go for DVC. Rumor we picked up: Next DVC at site of Contemporary Gardens buildings. Some of them would come down to make way. Probably years off.

 

[LeftCoaster]

Considering that SSR is already selling building 7, I think SSR may be sold out by early 2007. I recently visited with my guide after an add on and he said that any day now, they were to be told internally what the next resort was. All that he offered up to me was "it'll be near Magic Kingdom". So, I take that as the oft rumored Contemporary. The other tidbit he gave for me was that they have people out in Hawaii scouting the area. He said they probably won't build a resort from ground up. They will probably buy someone out and remodel the heck out of it.
Hopefully, both of these are true.

 

[MarylandPirate]

Had a DVC Guide say that DVC is looking at the CR as well as the Polynesian. Probally along the lines of VWL.... both sites will get small DVC additions.

 

[John Dobbertin]

Also picked up a rumor of possible resort/timeshare just to the northeast of the TTC, on the lake -- sort of "around the corner" from the Poly. There's a lot of space there & it's right on the Monorail.

 

[Mickmse2002]

Does anyone know what the WDW Resorts actually charges the DVD Company for the land? I realize the land was purchased for next to nothing way back when but that doesn't necessarily mean that is the cost basis DVD has to pay WDW Resorts for the land. Two separate operations altogether.

I would like to see a Hawaii option that DVC directly controls. As DVC continues to expand their sales/on-site presence I would think you would get to a saturation point. Off-site opportunities would allow for expanded sales opportunities. I think one of the key differences between HH and VB to a location such as Hawaii is location, location, location. If they marketed a Hawaii resort at a reasonable price we would do an add-on.

 

[John Dobbertin]

Mickmse2002: Disney wins-wins-wins when the DVCs are at WDW. It is guaranteed annual biz for Disney. Not only do they cash in on the timeshare purchase (or rental), there are passes to WDW, food, etc. Best of all, they know that business is coming to them this year, next year, etc. Off-site DVCs couldn't possibly provide the same revenue opportunities.

 

[Mickmse2002]

Originally posted by John Dobbertin
Mickmse2002: Disney wins-wins-wins when the DVCs are at WDW. It is guaranteed annual biz for Disney. Not only do they cash in on the timeshare purchase (or rental), there are passes to WDW, food, etc. Best of all, they know that business is coming to them this year, next year, etc. Off-site DVCs couldn't possibly provide the same revenue opportunities.

You are correct, but i don't think that was really the question. I do think Disney can expand their revenue stream by expanding the recreational opportunities beyond the offerings now in place.

 

[John Dobbertin]

Mickmse2002: I think I understand you want Disney to put a DVC in Hawaii. Why should they? Sort of difficult to sell an admission pass to the islands. And they would not have a captive food operation unless they put the DVC in the middle of nowhere. I would guess Disney is hoping on revenue of at least $100 per-day per-person beyond the hotel/DVC room. Not sure how they do that in Hawaii. For return-on-investment Disney is a whole bunch better off putting the money at WDW.