DVC discount Epcot after 4???

[DizBub]

I agree with Brian (and he beat me to it ). I think the demand for this pass would be extremely low with DVC members, as the pass would only be useful on days where a park was not visited. To that end, I would hazard a guess that this averages about 2-3 days each visit. Instead, members would invest the $150 (and the price of their non-refundable MYW base tickets - to choose the costliest option) and get a full AP with other perks.

Just my point of view.

- Chris

Thank you and Brian. This was exactly what I was looking for........this I understand. Clearly this would not work for us. We will most likely be getting APs next trip making this a moot point. Thanks again.

 

[crisi]

I don't see how this would cost Disney much .
My humble group would most likely spend more during a vist to epcot them we would going to a standard hotel rest.

Disney is a business. They aren't interested in "things that don't cost them much" - they are interested in "things that increase their revenue and preferably their profit."

 

[Greysword]

The info I had gotten was that it was $49.00
I can now assume that was wrong.

At the moment, it is $153.36

http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/florida-resident-tickets-passes/

 

[Belle & Ariel]

We would pay $150 for it. We get annual waterpark/Disney Quest passes and would love to spend a few nights at Epcot. I could also see us taking a short trip at Christmastime to see Candlelight Processional a few times.

We get APs for the parks every 4 or 5 years, but I could find things to do at Epcot every year.

I would love to see this rumor come true.

 

[WDWDad]

It's not about the dining capacity at Epcot. It doesn't matter who is in at what time, Epcot restaraunts only have so many seats. They don't care if you get one or not.

Disney wants you to buy the FULL ticket price. Not a discounted one. That is the reason. Florida residents have to work during the week. They do not fill up Epcot restaraunts, its the visitiors/vacationers that do. So Disney is not losing any money to the Fla. residents.

I respectfully disagree. Disney does care if you get one or not. In fact they want you to have one. Since even at peak times there are occasionally empty seats, and certainly at non peak times. Offering such a pass may entice a guest, particularly a DVC guest to try for an ADR, or perhaps a walk up. Now yes someone may, or may not fill up that spot, but undeniably seats at some point in time go empty. The question is how many? I don't have that answer, I doubt any of us here do. The question is at what cost does Disney incur to increase traffic to come as close as possible to 100 % dining capacity?

So what is the cost to Disney of offering a discounted after 4 single day, or AP admission to Epcot? Would a person who has a AP consider buying one? No, that person already has the admission the admission required and wouldn't trade it for this type of pass. Would someone who has a multi day park hopper buy one. Perhaps, depending on your park use. Many families who have belonged to DVC in particular are backing away from commando style trips and no longer go to the parks as often as they used to. Then again, some do. Some families who plan to be at Disney 12-20 days in a year ,but decide not to do an AP may enjoy this type of pass. They would be a net gain for Disney. Those guests staying on day passes are more than likely on a budget and do not plan on returning to WDW soon. There would be no advantage to them to purchase this ticket. Nor would they opt for this ticket media in favor of the ticket that allows them to visit the other parks.

So we have no net loss of other ticket media sales,and a potential for an increase in general traffic. Additionally, Disney stands to gain from those who would use this ticket fo reasons other than dining. Since few WDW guests leave anywhere without dropping a few bucks on souveniers, merchandise, drinks, snacks Disney stands to increase sales in many locations.

Yes Disney would prefer you purchase a full ticket, but as we all know Disney does itself allow ticket discounting thru various outlets. Why? Because it makes economic sense for them to do so. This may be another one of those ideas whose time is coming.

 

[Brian Noble]

does itself allow ticket discounting thru various outlets.

These discounts are *extremely* modest. As in single-digit-percentages modest.

For the most part, the only non-trivial discounts on tickets, other than the DVC AP/PAP discount, are those offered to youth groups, conventions, and some special event participants at WWOS or similar things.

 

[WDWDad]

These discounts are *extremely* modest. As in single-digit-percentages modest.

For the most part, the only non-trivial discounts on tickets, other than the DVC AP/PAP discount, are those offered to youth groups, conventions, and some special event participants at WWOS or similar things.

Agreed. The discounts are in the 4-5 % range. But the point was not that Disney does or does not offer discounts, they do. But rather that a discount could lead to an increase in both traffic, and revenue for Disney without adding any substantial cost.

 

[happyann79]

that would be kind of nice to have 1 park annual passes for DVC members!

 

[Brian Noble]

The discounts are in the 4-5 % range. But the point was not that Disney does or does not offer discounts, they do. But rather that a discount could lead to an increase in both traffic, and revenue for Disney without adding any substantial cost.

Well, let's suppose they discounted the After-4 Epcot pass by 4%---so it is $147 instead of $153. Who cares? Probably no one. I often don't even bother to order my tickets from Undercover Tourist these days, because it's barely worth the $25 or so to remember to do it.

In other words, I'm pretty sure those next-to-nothing broker discounts are not what convinces people that, by golly, maybe they should go to WDW after all. And, it's not reasonable to expect much more. For the most part, Mickey doesn't discount the gate. Why? Because the theme parks are the biggest reason why people come. Why discount the *one* thing that draws people in? Instead, Mickey discounts the ancillary things---the hotel rooms, the food, the merchandise, etc. That stimulates additional spending on the part of people already attracted to the parks. There are some things that look like ticket discounts (kids play free, the DVC AP discount), but they always require big bucks spent on hotel packages or DVC purchases to get to them---and the Resorts side of the business is what is paying for the "discount", not the Parks side of the business.

If we see any broad-based admission discounting going forward---and I don't think we will---I'm guessing it will be in the form of seasonal discounts on admission. Disneyland does this from time to time; they discount admission during the relatively unpopular winter months, for example, when the Southern California weather is still half-cruddy. WDW has gone the other direction---they have created extra events to increase value and stimulate demand in what used to be low-attendance periods: Food & Wine/MNSSHP in early Fall, MVMCP/holiday offerings late Fall, Marathon/Princess Half/ESPN in the off weeks of winter and early spring, Flower & Garden and SWW for post-spring-break, etc.

 

[Belle & Ariel]

Well, let's suppose they discounted the After-4 Epcot pass by 4%---so it is $147 instead of $153. Who cares? Probably no one. I often don't even bother to order my tickets from Undercover Tourist these days, because it's barely worth the $25 or so to remember to do it.

In other words, I'm pretty sure those next-to-nothing broker discounts are not what convinces people that, by golly, maybe they should go to WDW after all. And, it's not reasonable to expect much more. For the most part, Mickey doesn't discount the gate. Why? Because the theme parks are the biggest reason why people come. Why discount the *one* thing that draws people in? Instead, Mickey discounts the ancillary things---the hotel rooms, the food, the merchandise, etc. That stimulates additional spending on the part of people already attracted to the parks. There are some things that look like ticket discounts (kids play free, the DVC AP discount), but they always require big bucks spent on hotel packages or DVC purchases to get to them---and the Resorts side of the business is what is paying for the "discount", not the Parks side of the business.

If we see any broad-based admission discounting going forward---and I don't think we will---I'm guessing it will be in the form of seasonal discounts on admission. Disneyland does this from time to time; they discount admission during the relatively unpopular winter months, for example, when the Southern California weather is still half-cruddy. WDW has gone the other direction---they have created extra events to increase value and stimulate demand in what used to be low-attendance periods: Food & Wine/MNSSHP in early Fall, MVMCP/holiday offerings late Fall, Marathon/Princess Half/ESPN in the off weeks of winter and early spring, Flower & Garden and SWW for post-spring-break, etc.

The after 4 Epcot pass is only sold to Florida residents now, right?
Some of us in DVC would like to see this offered to us also.

 

[tjkraz]

As for the returants always beeing full.
It is true that the PS may be full but they seem to havel ots of no shows.
I think this is becaus people on the dining plan make mulitiple resservations and block out seating .

Disney purposely overbooks restaurants because they know there will be a percentage of no-shows.

Agreed. The discounts are in the 4-5 % range. But the point was not that Disney does or does not offer discounts, they do. But rather that a discount could lead to an increase in both traffic, and revenue for Disney without adding any substantial cost.

Occam's Razor. If Disney had any data to support the idea that they would come out ahead by reducing ticket prices by 4 or 5 or 20%, they would do it tomorrow.

In the end, whenever someone argues for a ticket discount essentially what they are saying is "charge me $25 less for my tickets and I'll spend another $25 on a t-shirt or eat an extra meals in the parks." Problem is that Disney has to cover manufacturing and sales costs on the t-shirt. They have to pay the ingredient and food prep costs on the meal.

Disney still comes out behind. And that's assuming the best case scenario of the guest actually spending more money rather than simply pocketing the difference.

 

[Brian Noble]

Some of us in DVC would like to see this offered to us also.

"I want it" is not the same as "Disney would benefit from me having it." And that brings us back to the obvious question: What's in it for Disney?

And I think the answer is pretty clear: probably not much. I don't have hard numbers, but I'd be shocked if most DVCers weren't already buying admission in some form for their Orlando-area DVC stays. Disney *definitely* doesn't want any of them to convert to the after-four pass; that's a straight money-losing proposition. And so the question would be how many would drop down vs. how many non-ticket-buyers would buy?

I bet I know the answer.

But, even if I'm wrong, and there are enough non-buyers who would buy this pass in large enough numbers to offset the droppers, there still isn't much reason to do it. The Epcot restaurants are already reasonably full---to the point that they've invested the capital to build two new sit-down locations in the past few years. I don't have an MBA, but that doesn't seem like a sign that they are hurting for restaurant business to me.

It is true that the overpriced and not very good Chinese place isn't often busy, but how many of the very few DVCers who don't already buy admission to the parks would buy this pass so that they could eat there? I don't know about you, but I wouldn't. I'd want to be eating at the places that are already busy. Why would Disney discount that?

As mentioned, I don't have an MBA. I've never been inside Team Disney Orlando. It could be that there is a vast profit opportunity for the Mouse to offer this admission option to DVCers. But, it sure doesn't look like it to me.

 

[gmboy95]

I gave up a long time ago thinking disney would provide discounts worthy of the financial commitment we have made to them over 30 years!!!

 

[tjkraz]

"I want it" is not the same as "Disney would benefit from me having it." And that brings us back to the obvious question: What's in it for Disney?

Exactly.

I can certainly relate to the people posting here who claim that Disney would get more of their money if they offered an "after 4" pass to DVC members. But what you have to remember is they also stand to LOSE money from other members who would choose to buy this after 4 pass rather than a traditional AP.

That's the consideration with every discount. Looking at additional sales is only half the story. You also have to consider what they would stand to lose from buyers who are otherwise willing to pay full price.

One other comment about the Epcot restaurants: many of them are independently owned so there really isn't any financial motivation for Disney to trade ticket revenue for dining revenue. If crowds increase at Les Chefs de France, that money goes to Paul Bocuse and his fellow owners.

 

[WDWDad]

Actually your right. Who would drop their current pass for this promotion? Almost no one. Which is why there really is no cost to Disney. They only stand to encourage guests who are outside the gates to come in after 4. And what happens to any guest who comes into Epcot? They leave less alot of money that use to be in their wallet. I agree if it cost Disney $25 ( it doesn't) to get $25 in revenue it would make no sense. But if Disney could get a DVC member in the door for next to nothing and that person spends $150 on food,drinks, and a sweat shirt then Disney wins, as usual.

Lets see.....more revenue.....more profit....little to no added cost. Seems like the financial side makes sense. I have yet to hear an argument that explained how this would cost Disney money. So thats whats in it for Disney. Now tell me who are the people who will choose this pass over their current ticket media.

Several people here have indicated an interest in this type of pass. No one has indicated that they would take it over another type of ticket. So we seem to be experiencing demand for the service, financially the idea seems to have an upside, the fact that Disney hasn't yet done this is not evidence that it is a bad concept. For all we know Disney could announce this discount tomorrow.

 

[tjkraz]

Several people here have indicated an interest in this type of pass. No one has indicated that they would take it over another type of ticket. So we seem to be experiencing demand for the service...

If that's the entire basis for your argument, then it's not even worth discussing. You will only believe what you want to believe...see what you want to see.

...financially the idea seems to have an upside, the fact that Disney hasn't yet done this is not evidence that it is a bad concept.

Given that the Disney parks are a $10 BILLION per year operation, it's fair to conclude that their MBAs have analyzed hundreds of different ticket schemes over the years.

To us, Disney financials are just monopoly money. A hundred million here, a hundred million there. Disney executives have to answer for the decisions they make. They don't have the luxury of simply rolling-out the product and seeing what happens.

The types of passes offered and their values are going to be based upon sound financial models.

No, there is no absolute proof that it wouldn't result in net gains for Disney. But we also cannot use a handful of folks posting on the DIS proof that it's a clear winner.

For all we know Disney could announce this discount tomorrow.

They could, and if they do it would certainly validate the concept. Disney is not all-knowing, but they have 40 years worth of ticket usage data, guest spending patters, guest surveys and more upon which to base their decisions. And they have also proven to be very good at separating customers from their money.

In this particular case, lack of action is (in my mind) a pretty good indicator that they have run the numbers, looked at usage trends and concluded that this is not a winning proposition.

 

[WDWMom]

I've presented my case in many different posts. I have yet to hear from anyone on how Disney loses money in this circumstance.

Yes I am using the fact that their are others here who like the idea as a basis for demand. Perhaps you've heard of polling. While not scientific in any respect it has more value than the argument "I don't like it".

Also once again the fact that Disney hasn't done it yet doesn't make it a bad idea. Maybe it is one that just needs time to evolve. How do you know that the idea to build DVC wasn't proposed in the 70's? Not every good idea comes to fruition in the first 10 minutes.

Let me also say that this pass isn't even one my family would use. But I hate see a good idea squashed just because people don't like change. And suggesting change to anything remotely associated with an AP is like the 3rd rail of american politics around here.

 

[Brian Noble]

I have yet to hear from anyone on how Disney loses money in this circumstance.

Then you chose not to read the part I wrote. Here, I will quote it:

I don't have hard numbers, but I'd be shocked if most DVCers weren't already buying admission in some form for their Orlando-area DVC stays. Disney *definitely* doesn't want any of them to convert to the after-four pass; that's a straight money-losing proposition.

But, hey, next time you are in Orlando, put on some business casual clothes, head over to TDO, and make your pitch. Who knows? You could be right, and Tim and I could be wrong.

But, I doubt it.

 

[TDC Nala]

Disney will offer things to DVC members because they're good for Disney, not necessarily because they'd be convenient for DVC members. They don't offer this pass to DVC members because Disney doesn't NEED to. If the bookings in the restaurants and the attendance in the park drops, maybe they'll feel they need to.

 

[WDWMom]

I don't have hard numbers, but I'd be shocked if most DVCers weren't already buying admission in some form for their Orlando-area DVC stays. Disney *definitely* doesn't want any of them to convert to the after-four pass; that's a straight money-losing proposition

Sorry I fail to see how this presents any kind of rational argument. I agree most DVCers have some type of ticket media. That doesn't mean that this type of option wouldn't work for some in addition to another form. Perhaps it also works for some who do not. My argument considered this. You seem to be arguing your case based on your feelings rather than any concepts.

Believe it or not there are people who come to WDW and don't go to the parks. I know DVC'ers like this. This perk would be attractive to them. I believe Disney could see positive returns by implementing a policy similiar to this one.

and now.........I'm bored..........Goodbye