Doesn't anyone know why MM+/FP+ is here?!

[MichiganDVC]

I read so many posts about FP+ and, especially, why Disney should have spent money on new attractions instead. And I wonder, don't people see the bigger picture?

Here's the issue: Even though they have room to expand down the road, WDW is only so big. MK really can't get any bigger unless they chop up the RR tracks. But world population is getting bigger. Regardless of what new attractions they build or refurb or don't, unless there is a worldwide economic depression, WDW is going to be PACKED! Magic Kingdom averages 17 million visitors a year. And there are 2 billion people in the world with the disposable income to visit Magic Kingdom if they wanted to.

Point is, MM+ is an absolute necessity to manage all those visitors. Even if MK doesn't make a single improvement for the next 5 years, I guarantee their attendance with at least stay at 17 million, if not rise. There's just more people on this earth with more money!

The days of an empty MK where you can ride everything with no wait (if that ever existed) are gone. The new normal is big crowds year round. What Disney has done is put forth a system to try to manage those crowds. MM+ allows them to see where the crowds are, adjust staffing, etc... FP+ allows you to guarantee a few of the "must-dos" and everything else will be a bonus.

I can already hear the Universal crowd starting to type. And before you begin, I totally agree with you. Yes. Go to Universal. From what I've read, they close at 6pm on Fridays, there are no waits for rides if you stay onsite, etc... If you like their rides and theming, its all yours. It doesn't sound very crowded at all.

But one day, it will be.

In 1978, there were 4 billion people in the world. Today, there are 8 billion. World population has already doubled in my lifetime! In 35 years, there will be 11 billion people. (I'm not even going to bother with the inherent environmental concerns of this.) And these aren't all poor people either. Standard of living is rising worldwide.

Can you imagine where WDW is going to put all these people???
And Universal has even less space. What do you think they'll do when their attendance doubles or triples in the next 30 years?

In 1993, Magic Kingdom had 12 million visitors at 33,000 a day.
In 2011, MK had 17.5 million visitors at 48,000 a day.

Its the same size park!!

What's going to happen when MK has 50,000 visitors a day? 60,000?
I know there's park capacity limits, but just saying... crowds aren't going away and MM+ is there to try to manage those crowds to still make a decent experience for most guests.

 

[MichiganDVC]

Sorry. I've clearly had too much coffee today....

 

[Jennasis]

The only reason they want to manage crowds is to maximize profits. More bodies stuffed in = more money.

 

[JeremyGNJ]

The only reason they want to manage crowds is to maximize profits. More bodies stuffed in = more money.

Not entirely true. They also want to avoid the negative impression they get where people say "Disney? I hear all you do is wait in lines all day".

While maximizing profit is one thing, the ability to improve guest satisfaction is also a benefit.

 

[TooExcitedCantSleep]

The parks are much more crowded now with a slowly recovering economy and surge of international visitors benefiting from the weak US Dollar! The new system is better.

 

[MichiganDVC]

The only reason they want to manage crowds is to maximize profits. More bodies stuffed in = more money.

Yes, because they are a corporation, which, by definition, exists to make a profit for shareholders.

But as a PP stated, in order to maximize profits, they need to have a well-run park that people want to go to.

I remember back in the day when I would go to Cedar Point (big-coaster park in NE Ohio.) I would see the two hour lines for the big thrill rides, of which I wanted no part anyway, and would think, "Thank god I don't like those rides because that would suck to stand in those lines!

I've been to Cedar Point twice in my life and I live 3 hours away. My impression was god-awful lines and rides that don't appeal to me. I'll probably never go back.
Now you can pay for a front-of-the-line pass, which is $80. ON TOP OF ADMISSION, which is $50. Wow.

But back to the point, I'd cut back on my trips to WDW if and when Epcot WS is so crowded that I have to wait longer than 5 minutes for my Carlsberg at Norway.

 

[GillianP1301]

OP, I agree with a lot of what you say.

Disney are not doing the whole MM/FP+ stuff for the fun of it. There is no corporation out there worth their weight that gets that kind of capital approved for a project that doesn't have a sound business case. I think it's very feasible that they can see a breaking point approaching as far as park capacity/guest experience. It's hard to tell exactly where that point is, but it's there somewhere and attendance just keeps going up and up and mostly for the reasons you pointed out.

I think the approach they are taking with trying to get a grip on crowd numbers, specific to each attraction is a way of trying to deal with this issue. They need to maximize how many attractions each guest can enjoy to keep profit increasing. Once they reach that hypothetical max, then really their only option is going to be pricing themselves up so they become more of an elitist destination.

There are other things they can do to prolong needing to do that, like adding another gate and who knows, we may see that yet.

 

[MichiganDVC]

OP, I agree with a lot of what you say.

Disney are not doing the whole MM/FP+ stuff for the fun of it. There is no corporation out there worth their weight that gets that kind of capital approved for a project that doesn't have a sound business case. I think it's very feasible that they can see a breaking point approaching as far as park capacity/guest experience. It's hard to tell exactly where that point is, but it's there somewhere and attendance just keeps going up and up and mostly for the reasons you pointed out.

I think the approach they are taking with trying to get a grip on crowd numbers, specific to each attraction is a way of trying to deal with this issue. They need to maximize how many attractions each guest can enjoy to keep profit increasing. Once they reach that hypothetical max, then really their only option is going to be pricing themselves up so they become more of an elitist destination.

There are other things they can do to prolong needing to do that, like adding another gate and who knows, we may see that yet.

I see the opposite happening. Once they've maxed out what they can do with existing parks and attendance, then they build the 5th gate. But think about everything they DO have in addition to the 4 parks: 2 water parks, 20+ resorts, DTD, golf courses, mini-golf courses. They know that every visitor cannot spend all day inside the parks. There's just no more room....

 

[MichiganDVC]

Well, I guess my answer is "yes"

 

[larryz]

Sorry. I've clearly had too much coffee today....

I was going to say kool-ade...

 

[BigPapaPaulie]

To your point about growing standard of living worldwide an population increases - that's a big part of why disney (and Universal) is expanding into international markets with new parks.

Personally I think they over built hotels on site and didn't match them with adequate attraction capacity.

If more people were offsite then they'd balance their trip with other Orlando attractions. As it is people stay a week on property and expect to be entertained by disney exclusively the entire time.

Multiply that by all the hotel rooms they've added and you have a metric Mickey but ton of entertainment to deliver.

Ergo why Stitch's horrible thing escape is needed to absorb crowds.

 

[Belle'sFan]

Only one solution. Build another Disney World park someplace in the mid-West.

 

[KNovacovschi]

Only one solution. Build another Disney World park someplace in the mid-West.

Or Canada

 

[Caboosey]

I've been wondering a lot about FP+ and why it was introduced.

The way I understood the old FastPass (from Disney's point of view), I could either stand in line for Space Mountain for an hour, or I could pick up a FP and spend that hour shopping or getting a snack - giving Disney more money. It made sense to me that Disney wants me out in the park spending money, not just standing in a line where my money stays in my pocket.

But with the reports that FP+ is creating long lines for things that have typically never had a wait, it seems like I'll be spending a lot more time in ride lines, and not browsing the shops or buying snacks.

So why FP+? How does it benefit Disney to have me waiting in lines for Living With the Land and Spaceship Earth???

 

[Spork24]

Only one solution. Build another Disney World park someplace in the mid-West.

That won't happen. Why did disney build in Florida, 50 years ago instead of the east coast or Midwest? Why is the china park going in Shanghai and not Beijing. It's all about the weather! Disney likes to build it's parks in places where it can more comfortably operate year round. Disney won't invest that kind of money in a park that will be covered in snow for part of the year. If Disney were to do a third theme park group in the US. It would almost undoubtedly be in Texas.

I think a 5th gate in Florida or third somewhere in California is more likely for the US. And depending on how the South American economy goes the next ten or so years, I wouldn't be shocked to see a Disney Brazil.

 

[JanaDee]

I was going to say kool-ade...

Once she said US closes at 6pm every Friday, I was done reading. Not true, btw.

 

[JeremyGNJ]

That won't happen. Why did disney build in Florida, 50 years ago instead of the east coast or Midwest? Why is the china park going in Shanghai and not Beijing. It's all about the weather! Disney likes to build it's parks in places where it can more comfortably operate year round. Disney won't invest that kind of money in a park that will be covered in snow for part of the year. If Disney were to do a third theme park group in the US. It would almost undoubtedly be in Texas.

I think a 5th gate in Florida or third somewhere in California is more likely for the US. And depending on how the South American economy goes the next ten or so years, I wouldn't be shocked to see a Disney Brazil.

I can definitely see Disney Brazil before any major additions in the US!!

 

[MichiganDVC]

Once she said US closes at 6pm every Friday, I was done reading. Not true, btw.

I didn't mean every Friday. I just read that either this past Friday it was closed at 6pm.

IOA closed yesterday at 5pm. Saturday. The Saturday after Easter when a ton of people are on spring break. I've never been to UO, but that seems early for a Saturday.

 

[JanaDee]

I didn't mean every Friday. I just read that either this past Friday it was closed at 6pm.

IOA closed yesterday at 5pm. Saturday. The Saturday after Easter when a ton of people are on spring break. I've never been to UO, but that seems early for a Saturday.

It was closed for a special event, just like MK and DHS have where they close early to the public.

 

[JanaDee]

I read so many posts about FP+ and, especially, why Disney should have spent money on new attractions instead. And I wonder, don't people see the bigger picture?

Here's the issue: Even though they have room to expand down the road, WDW is only so big. MK really can't get any bigger unless they chop up the RR tracks. But world population is getting bigger. Regardless of what new attractions they build or refurb or don't, unless there is a worldwide economic depression, WDW is going to be PACKED! Magic Kingdom averages 17 million visitors a year. And there are 2 billion people in the world with the disposable income to visit Magic Kingdom if they wanted to.

Point is, MM+ is an absolute necessity to manage all those visitors. Even if MK doesn't make a single improvement for the next 5 years, I guarantee their attendance with at least stay at 17 million, if not rise. There's just more people on this earth with more money!

The days of an empty MK where you can ride everything with no wait (if that ever existed) are gone. The new normal is big crowds year round. What Disney has done is put forth a system to try to manage those crowds. MM+ allows them to see where the crowds are, adjust staffing, etc... FP+ allows you to guarantee a few of the "must-dos" and everything else will be a bonus.

I can already hear the Universal crowd starting to type. And before you begin, I totally agree with you. Yes. Go to Universal. From what I've read, they close at 6pm on Fridays, there are no waits for rides if you stay onsite, etc... If you like their rides and theming, its all yours. It doesn't sound very crowded at all.

But one day, it will be.

In 1978, there were 4 billion people in the world. Today, there are 8 billion. World population has already doubled in my lifetime! In 35 years, there will be 11 billion people. (I'm not even going to bother with the inherent environmental concerns of this.) And these aren't all poor people either. Standard of living is rising worldwide.

Can you imagine where WDW is going to put all these people???
And Universal has even less space. What do you think they'll do when their attendance doubles or triples in the next 30 years?

In 1993, Magic Kingdom had 12 million visitors at 33,000 a day.
In 2011, MK had 17.5 million visitors at 48,000 a day.

Its the same size park!!

What's going to happen when MK has 50,000 visitors a day? 60,000?
I know there's park capacity limits, but just saying... crowds aren't going away and MM+ is there to try to manage those crowds to still make a decent experience for most guests.

.