Does anyone honest to goodness tithe?

[Cool-Beans]

Cool Beans

You are asking the tough questions. I know that this is a hard one to reconcile for a lot of people.

I honestly believe God loves all of us the same. He loves non christians just as much as he loves christians...and he loves us all more than any of us can imagine with our miniscule human brains. He loved us all enough to send his son to die for us.

I believe God chooses to intervene in people's lives or not based on what's best for the person and lives of those around them.

When bad things happen to good people I just have to trust that God knows what he's doing. He promises that "ALL things work together for good for those that love God and are called according to his purposes..."
I take that to mean he will take any negative situation and make sure good comes out of it...whether I'm able to recognize that good or not.

And you know what, bad things do happen to good people all the time. It doesn't seem like it's fair, that some people get their loved ones healed and others don't...but we don't really know what other "bad" things they might have already experienced in their lives or might be going to experience in the future.

I cannot believe that allowing a little girl to be raped and buried alive was best for her...or her family.

And I don't believe that God is performing Monopoly Miracles while allowing that child to suffer so.

If we can be convinced that God has performed a miracle for us, then we damn well ought to be able to explain what made us so special that He chose to do it for us and not others. And if we claim that we cannot understand the Whys of it, then we ought to back off on the miracle declarations...maybe we didn't understand that correctly.

I've seen a lot of people watch their loved ones suffer. Some pray and some don't...and the results are as good for one group as the other. If the praying were helping, I'd be the first one to say so! It can't hurt, but I've seen no evidence that it helps.

I guess I do get upset, although I wouldn't say I was "so angry." It is kind of like sportsmanship. The winning team isn't supposed to rub it in the face of the losing team. And the people who have good things happen shouldn't run around claiming God chose to do it for them...because it might hurt the feelings of the folks God didn't chose. Even if you think that God chose you, keep it to yourself...out of politeness, if nothing else.

I don't know why I get involved in these threads. I am always the only person who believes in God that doesn't think He gets involved in our lives.

 

[mtblujeans]

I am actually surprised to see that there are so many Christians on this board!

 

[cybrkitn]

I do not want to speak for this poster, but I think that your previous posts, in particular, are most difficult for someone (who does not have a strong faith) to understand.

I will state, with respect, that I tend to agree that your DH getting a McD's coupon for free food when he was hungry was not divine intervention. He was in Vegas, right? This is the mecca of free buffets! No one goes hungry in Vegas!

In one of your responses to me, you stated that I didn't understand because I don't have the stength of faith. Not true. I have a very strong faith. I am a PK, and even studied religion and theology formally, and am very active in my own church. My faith is a big part of who I am.

That being said....

I believe that God made us rational beings. God had the power to create us to be anything...God could have created humans to be mindless servents who worshiped no matter what. God did not do this...we have FREE WILL. God wants people to CHOOSE to worship and follow, for that is when it is meaningful. If we were all just created to blindly worship, then that devotion would be meaningless, right? However, the fact that we can all reason, engage in critical thinking, be analytical, etc., the fact that God gave us these skills, is because we are intended to use these skills.

Thus, going back to one of my earlier responses to you, no, I don't think God gave your DH the car or the food coupon. We are expected to use the thinking skills and amazing brain power given to us and learn what and how to make good choices and decisions. You clearly stated that you bought a car that you know you cannot affords. I do not believe that God had you do this. On the contrary, I think that you are not using all of the intellectual talents that God has bestowed upon you.

Finally, you also stated that you know these were blessings from God because I was looking at this through human eyes and not God's eyes...you then said that you looked at this situation through God's eyes. Yikes! You bet I looked at it through human eyes...that is what God gave me, and I am grateful. I do not know one single person of faith who would ever say that they see the world throguh God's eyes. Perhaps you mis-spoke in your earlier post.

I wish you and all on this thread many blessings.

DH is also a Promise Keeper as well. It's hard for me to explain. But we all start out with spiritual milk before we go to solid foods as the Apostle Paul has said in the NT. There is nothing wrong with God blessing any of us. God also tells us not to worry that He will provide all our needs. We just have to have Faith in Him to do it. If we don't, then pretty much we are saying to Him that we don't need Him; which is not true, because we do need Him.

A friend of ours from church said it best, "You know that you know, that you know." The things that have happened to my DH and I can only be explained by God's intervention. I have no doubt about it. I was giving those examples to show that God does provide and does bless when we are obedient to Him and it all started with us tithing. If we start doubting what God can do and try explaining them through other ways, then we are no better than the Pharisees who were condeming Jesus when He performed miracle after miracle.

Well, I can see that this has turned the thread into a different direction, so I'm just going to leave it at that. Now back to our regulary scheduled Topic...

Everyone have a Merry Christmas and Happy Chanukah! Until next week

 

[cybrkitn]

Do you think that you can comprehend God with your intellectuality and human reasoning? "Gods ways are not our ways". When you think that God didnt have a hand in one thing or another, you put God in a box and say what God chooses or not chooses to do. You discount any miracle or action that you can not believe that God would do. God is sovereign in ALL things.

Just because you cant believe something came from God with your VERY limited understanding doesnt mean it didnt. Miracles happen every day. There are no coincidences with God. Dont be so quick to say what God does or doesnt do OR be so quick to discount others who feel that God is working in their lives and providing because they have been faithful of what has been asked of them. Faith of a little child. Remember.....

Thanks! I don't think I could have put it any better I sometimes have a hard time trying to explain something.

Merry Christmas!

 

[mickeyfan2]

I am actually surprised to see that there are so many Christians on this board!

Why?

 

[JennyMominRI]

First of all, Christmas isn't YOUR gift to give and take back.

If you believe that God is saving your kid from dying, then you gotta figure that he is killing off others. If you give credit for the former, you must lay blame for the latter.

If God is running around getting involved in people's lives, then what is he thinking when he chooses to have, say, a 7 year old boy stolen from his parents, beaten, raped, and decapitated? Or that little girl in Florida who got raped and buried alive? If God is responsible for what is going on in our lives, guiding them...then he is responsible for all of it.

Oh, wait, I know. We can't understand, because we're human. But we can understand that God got involved in YOUR life to save YOUR daughter. And in your husband's Monopoly game, of course.

I believe in luck. Because I don't believe that God is picking some folks out to torture, while selecting others to receive miracles. Not the God I believe in, anyway.

Even though I disagree with the harsh way you are saying this, I do agree with your premise..I don't believe G-d micromanages anyones lives...He sets things in motion by creating us as humans and therefore we do get ill and die, make bad decisions and suffer for them etc... I don't believe he is up there with a pointer deciding that Sally will have a full and wonderful life and die in her bed, while..Mary is raped, tortured and murdered at 18 as part of some *plan* to maybe teach Mary's family something After all he is G-d and he can teach that same lesson without the rape ,torture, and murder of someone. If this was the case and G-d did work that way,frankly I would want no part of him

 

[cardaway]

Even though I do disagree with the harsh way you are sayig this,I agree with your premise..I don't believe G-d micromanages anyones lives...He sets things in motion by creating us as humans and therefore we do get ill and die, make bad decisions and suffer for them etc... I don't believe he is up there with a pointer deciding that Sally will have a full and wonderful life and die in her bed,while..Mary is raped tortured and murdered at 18 as part of some *plan* to maybe teach Mary's family something After all he is G-d and he can teach that same lesson without the rape torture and muder of someone. If this was the case and G-d did work that way,frankly I would want no part of him

BTW: Hope your recent trip was as good as ours.

 

[poohandwendy]

Even though I do disagree with the harsh way you are sayig this,I agree with your premise..I don't believe G-d micromanages anyones lives...He sets things in motion by creating us as humans and therefore we do get ill and die, make bad decisions and suffer for them etc... I don't believe he is up there with a pointer deciding that Sally will have a full and wonderful life and die in her bed, while..Mary is raped, tortured and murdered at 18 as part of some *plan* to maybe teach Mary's family something After all he is G-d and he can teach that same lesson without the rape ,torture, and murder of someone. If this was the case and G-d did work that way,frankly I would want no part of him

I agree too.

There are too many 'good Christians' (if you want to look at just Christians alone) who have really bad things that happen to them for me to believe that God is picking and choosing who will go through what and who will be spared of this or that. I believe that my personal relationship with God gives me strength (via my faith) to get through the things I will deal with here on earth. That is what ask for when I pray.

 

[mickeyfan2]

Even though I disagree with the harsh way you are saying this, I do agree with your premise..I don't believe G-d micromanages anyones lives...He sets things in motion by creating us as humans and therefore we do get ill and die, make bad decisions and suffer for them etc... I don't believe he is up there with a pointer deciding that Sally will have a full and wonderful life and die in her bed, while..Mary is raped, tortured and murdered at 18 as part of some *plan* to maybe teach Mary's family something After all he is G-d and he can teach that same lesson without the rape ,torture, and murder of someone. If this was the case and G-d did work that way,frankly I would want no part of him

I agree too. I look at faith as a way to help me accept the bad things that happen to me and others I know and love. I have asthma because it runs in my paternal family. God did not give me asthma. God gave me the tools to deal with my asthma and great Drs and researchers to create drugs to make my life easier and a brain that I use to afford the meds. I believe in free will not predestined outcomes.

 

[JoyG]

I agree too. I look at faith as a way to help me accept the bad things that happen to me and others I know and love. I have asthma because it runs in my paternal family. God did not give me asthma. God gave me the tools to deal with my asthma and great Drs and researchers to create drugs to make my life easier and a brain that I use to afford the meds. I believe in free will not predestined outcomes.

I actually believe this as well although reading my earlier post I didn't make myself clear. I don't think God gives us bad things in our life like asthma, cancer whatever....i think God takes those bad things uses them for good in our lives.

This has been an interesting conversation. Cool Beans, you're not the only person with your viewpoint, I've seen this debate on the DIS before!

ETA: This will be my last post before the shutdown...
Merry Christmas! Peace on Earth and goodwill to you all!

 

[lori1043]

With all due respect, I don't think you can say that this would be your reaction until you have actually walked that path. Let's all hope that none of us has to.

I know where you are coming from and I can see that. But I also know, that if I lost sight, I would find it again. I don't have this faith in Jesus b/c of my daughter being healed. It was placed there my whole life and STRENGTHENED over the course of the past years. My daughter was very good friends with a little girl who was dx'd the same week as herself -and me and her mom b/c close too-so much that we coordinated our children's "wish" trips to WDW together. Her daughter died March 2004-3 days after she turned 6. I KNOW that i cannot say what she felt or still feels. I was thinking of her while we were at service tonight wondering how she was-here I was, selfishly enjoying watching my children sing praises-there she probably is, crying b/c she no longer has that. I actually felt guilty after she died-wondering why mine was still here and hers was not. Her family were much better Christians then I-her hubby IS still a youth pastor. His wife now ministers to youth and HAS started a group for people who have lost thier children. She is also now in nursing school. I can honestly say I would want her as my nurse. She is compassionate and caring and will be that way with her future patients. She will even tell you that it still stings, but that NOW, 3 years later, it was not for nothing. Her was for something and her mom is making sure that her legacy goes on. I would hope to say that I would follow that path if I lost my child. It is unfathomable. I would never pretend to know I knew how it felt.
I don't know why God ALLOWS certain things to happen to our children. There IS a reason though-that is what FAITH is all about. Believing things that we cannot see or prove.

And to Cool Beans-I was not giving Christmas to you- it was a gift , not to come back here b/c YES, you are relentless to me and it is a HUGE belief of mine that DD was healed by God-using others, of course. What I took back was the gift of not coming back to this thread. You are not reading me right at all, but I don't understand you either. Truce, let's let it go please-Merry CHRISTmas.

You cannot beleive in God without having FAITH.

 

[MrsPete]

God performs miracles. So, you tell me, what are his selection criteria?

I don't know, but I do believe what He says in Romans 8:28: "All things work together for good for those who love the Lord."

I've never been raped, and my children have never had a terminal illness, but I did grow up with an alcoholic, abusive father who eventually abandoned us. That was no picnic, but in looking back, I can see how going through those difficult times made me strong, and it forced me to rely upon the Lord because my own strength wasn't enough. Also, looking back, I can see that every time I was at my lowest points, when I was in the worst trouble, He sent someone along to help. I didn't see that all clearly at the time, but in retrospect, it's evident.

I know that many times in my own life I've been though bad times, and I couldn't understand WHY I was suffering . . . and then later it's made sense to me. Perhaps I needed to be in a certain place -- either mentally or physically -- and the hard times put me in that place. Maybe it was for someone else's benefit. But I know that I've seen good come out of bad. Not just once or twice, but many times.

I think non-Christians have a hard time understanding the "peace that passes understanding" concept. Right now I'm going through something difficult with my family -- I don't want to get into details, but it's an ugly extended family thing. Let's just say that a close family member has really, really done us wrong. I have no control over the situation whatsoever, but it's hurting me deeply, and it will continue to hurt me and my daughters emotionally and financially literally for the rest of our lives. I've been crying about it for days, and I've really been worked up about it. Today I went in and sat for a long time, just looking at the Christmas tree and praying for peace about it. After a while, I really did experience a peace about it. The situation wasn't made better in any way, but I literally felt a burden lifted from me and I came away more accepting of the whole thing. I don't see how in the world this thing can "work for good", but I trust that it will.

 

[sm4987]

I give my 10%. Even if I didn't trust the church (although I do), I put my trust in God more than anything, so that means if it is his, I'm gonna give it back to him. It is the least I can do for all the things that he's done for me. Has my life been perfect, nope, lots and lots of bad things have happened, but that's a part of life.

 

[Glendamax]

This has been a very interesting thread - especially all of the debates and snipes. This morning in church as I walked around to the offering table with my tithes and offering in my hands, I thought about this thread. And I thanked God for faith in Him - that I believe his promises in the book of Malachi 3:8-13 are true.

This thread has really helped to reinforce what I believe, and remind me of the importance, and reasoning behind tithing!

 

[bevtoy]

Originally Posted by Cool-Beans

If you believe that God is saving your kid from dying, then you gotta figure that he is killing off others. If you give credit for the former, you must lay blame for the latter.

If God is running around getting involved in people's lives, then what is he thinking when he chooses to have, say, a 7 year old boy stolen from his parents, beaten, raped, and decapitated? Or that little girl in Florida who got raped and buried alive? If God is responsible for what is going on in our lives, guiding them...then he is responsible for all of it.

Oh, wait, I know. We can't understand, because we're human. But we can understand that God got involved in YOUR life to save YOUR daughter. And in your husband's Monopoly game, of course.

I believe in luck. Because I don't believe that God is picking some folks out to torture, while selecting others to receive miracles. Not the God I believe in, anyway.

When I held the body of my new born baby in my arms, I never in my wildest dreams had imagined her still born, yet there I sat, numb in shock and wondering why, oh why?

20 years later I still have no answer but I know that it wasn't personal, no on can tell me that God killed my daughter. But yes, he did allow it to happen.
Yet, I am stead fast in the belief that I am am safe and secure in the same ever lasting arms that hold the spirt of my departed daughter in safe keeping.

Life and death are a part of the cycle of life. Why would anyone assume their life would be devoid of pain?

Each person has God given free will to do good or bad, so the suffering of this world has to be lain at our own feet. There was no pain or suffering before the fall of man. Original sin brought tears into our lives, not God. We have to walk through the suffering we as a race are responsible for.

 

[cybrkitn]

This has been a very interesting thread - especially all of the debates and snipes. This morning in church as I walked around to the offering table with my tithes and offering in my hands, I thought about this thread. And I thanked God for faith in Him - that I believe his promises in the book of Malachi 3:8-13 are true.

This thread has really helped to reinforce what I believe, and remind me of the importance, and reasoning behind tithing!

Merry Christmas Glendamax!

You're right, this has been an interesting thread. But I'm glad to be part of it because it has strengthened an area in my life that was weak. Thanks everyone!

Merry Christmas everybody!!!!

 

[jimmiej]

Jimmie, what it sounds like you're saying is "unless it's enforced it's not really a requirement" (and it kind of sounds like Aquinas is saying that too).

If that's what you mean, I'll have to respectfully disagree. If they are calling something a requirement that's exactly what it is...whether or not they actually discipline someone for it or not.

The third graders are required to do homework in my class. I don't always collect the homework and grade it. That doesn't mean it's not still a requirement to do it. I expect them to be doing it even if I'm not grading it.

The difference is, what happens to your students when they don't do their homework (lower grade and/or parent conference) vs. what happens to these church members when they pledge to tithe but don't? I have a hard time believing members are "taken to the woodshed" when they don't keep up with their pledge. We ask our new members to sign a pledge to give, but the result is between them & God.

JFTR, I like the idea of members knowing up front the seriousness of being a church member & serving the Lord.

 

[jimmiej]

I am always the only person who believes in God that doesn't think He gets involved in our lives.

This idea reminded me of this verse:

Matthew 10:29-31

29Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. 30And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31So don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.

I believe God is very involved in the lives of those who love Him. Micromanage? Scripture does not appear to indicate that. More like a father/friend, I think.

 

[cardaway]

The difference is, what happens to your students when they don't do their homework (lower grade and/or parent conference) vs. what happens to these church members when they pledge to tithe but don't? I have a hard time believing members are "taken to the woodshed" when they don't keep up with their pledge. We ask our new members to sign a pledge to give, but the result is between them & God.

JFTR, I like the idea of members knowing up front the seriousness of being a church member & serving the Lord.

You have posted before about how you think people in the church should be taken to task for not following the bible. I fail to see how this would be any different.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I think non-Christians have a hard time understanding the "peace that passes understanding" concept. Right now I'm going through something difficult with my family -- I don't want to get into details, but it's an ugly extended family thing. Let's just say that a close family member has really, really done us wrong. I have no control over the situation whatsoever, but it's hurting me deeply, and it will continue to hurt me and my daughters emotionally and financially literally for the rest of our lives. I've been crying about it for days, and I've really been worked up about it. Today I went in and sat for a long time, just looking at the Christmas tree and praying for peace about it. After a while, I really did experience a peace about it. The situation wasn't made better in any way, but I literally felt a burden lifted from me and I came away more accepting of the whole thing. I don't see how in the world this thing can "work for good", but I trust that it will.

I get this same feeling from Judaism,but never got it from Christianity