Does ANYONE believe Iran?

[LakeAriel]

I think she was taken over by a bodysnatcher.

OMG! you took the words right out of my mouth..that can't be good!

 

[eclectics]

Hmmm. The things you miss when you pop out to buy a paper and some half and half!......alright, and some donuts. I can shock a few here also with my views on welfare and prisoners rights, but I'll save that for some dull day.

I also don't buy the Iranian populace are all warm and fuzzy about us. If they were, they would have elected a reformer. I don't recall any widespread reports of voter intimidation when what's his face was elected, just a few isolated incidents.

 

[Laz]

Ooo, nice to see I can still surprise some here.

You've been reading me all wrong. I'm no dove. I believe there's a time and place where you have to take a stand and fight. My differences with many people here is they think every time is that time.

I maybe a liberal Democrat on some issues, but on others, I'm to the right of Atila the Hun. Watching 1979 unfold the way it did, Iran is one of those issues.

My feelings about diplomacy with Iran is NOT because I think they're wonderful and trustworthy. They're anything but. However, diplomacy buys you time and insight about your enemy. It never hurts to look someone in the eye and have them do the same to you.
I think the Iranian government has been given every opportunity to end this crises. They've taken advantage of none of those opportunities. If they're going to let their nuts control events the way they did in 1979, it maybe time for a response.

It sounds like you have read some of the philosophy of SUN TZU:

http://www.chinapage.com/philosophy/sunzi/sunzi-e.html

Hence the saying: If you know the enemy
and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a
hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy,
for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat.
If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will
succumb in every battle.
[To Chinese text |To Top]

 

[Planogirl]

I never said that the British or Americans are to blame for anything even though the Iranians may themselves believe they are. I just posted a prime example of escallation that seems to lead nowhere. However, LuvDuke's comment:

However, diplomacy buys you time and insight about your enemy. It never hurts to look someone in the eye and have them do the same to you.

is perfect! Exactly right and this seems to usually lead somewhere. If it doesn't, at least you've made the attempt.

 

[Teejay32]

I voted "nope" and I'm not at all hawkish about Iran. I do think there's a good case to be made for a naval blockade.

 

[LuvDuke]

It sounds like you have read some of the philosophy of SUN TZU:

http://www.chinapage.com/philosophy/sunzi/sunzi-e.html

Yes, I have.

 

[DawnCt1]

I think the Iranian government has been given every opportunity to end this crises. They've taken advantage of none of those opportunities. If they're going to let their nuts control events the way they did in 1979, it maybe time for a response.

Two days in a row?? We agree on something??

 

[DawnCt1]

I voted "nope" and I'm not at all hawkish about Iran. I do think there's a good case to be made for a naval blockade.

A naval blockade and take out their one gasoline refinery.

 

[Charade]

I never said that the British or Americans are to blame for anything even though the Iranians may themselves believe they are. I just posted a prime example of escalation that seems to lead nowhere. However, LuvDuke's comment:

is perfect! Exactly right and this seems to usually lead somewhere. If it doesn't, at least you've made the attempt. :thumbs

What did it buy Jimmy Carter in 1979? Does Britain have to wait 444 days?

 

[Charade]

From the Jimmy Carter Library...


The Hostage Crisis in Iran
On November 4, 1979, Iranian militants stormed the United States Embassy in Tehran and took approximately seventy Americans captive. This terrorist act triggered the most profound crisis of the Carter presidency and began a personal ordeal for Jimmy Carter and the American people that lasted 444 days.

President Carter committed himself to the safe return of the hostages while protecting America's interests and prestige. He pursued a policy of restraint that put a higher value on the lives of the hostages than on American retaliatory power or protecting his own political future.

The toll of patient diplomacy was great, but President Carter's actions brought freedom for the hostages with America's honor preserved.

Mohammed Reza Pahlavi, Shah of Iran, began his reign in 1941, succeeding his father, Reza Khan, to the throne. In a 1953 power struggle with his prime minister, the Shah gained American support to prevent nationalization of Iran's oil industry. In return for assuring the U.S. a steady supply of oil, the Shah received economic and military aid from eight American presidents.

Early in the 1960s, the Shah announced social and economic reforms but refused to grant broad political freedom. Iranian nationalists condemned his U.S. supported regime and his "westernizing" of Iran. During rioting in 1963, the Shah cracked down, suppressing his opposition. Among those arrested and exiled was a popular religious nationalist and bitter foe of the United States, the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.

Between 1963 and 1979, the Shah spent billions of oil dollars on military weapons. The real price of military strength was the loss of popular support. Unable to sustain economic progress and unwilling to expand democratic freedoms, the Shah's regime collapsed in revolution. On January 16, 1979, the Shah fled Iran, never to return.

The exiled Ayatollah Khomeini returned to Tehran in February 1979 and whipped popular discontent into rabid anti-Americanism. When the Shah came to America for cancer treatment in October, the Ayatollah incited Iranian militants to attack the U.S. On November 4, the American Embassy in Tehran was overrun and its employees taken captive. The hostage crisis had begun.

Perfect timing for Jimmy. They were released the day Reagan took office.

 

[Cool-Beans]

What did it buy Jimmy Carter in 1979? Does Britain have to wait 444 days?

It bought us hostages.

It is no coincidence that those people were released the same day President "I don't bargain" Reagan took office. He knew his enemy. He knew what had to be done.

They knew what they were up against and ran like hell. They're crazy, but they aren't THAT crazy. No war needed, no lives lost. To me, that's a happy ending.

 

[Teejay32]

...and take out their one gasoline refinery.

That's hawkish. I don't think Iran's worth it.

 

[DawnCt1]

That's hawkish. I don't think Iran's worth it.

When Iran smells blood in the water, or perceives a weakness, they become aggressive. They have been attempting to pull off a kidnapping for a while now. http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/070323/23iran.htm

They might need a reminder of what we are capable of.

 

[Teejay32]

I haven't been here in a while, so I don't what's been said about Iran lately. Iran seems to be grasping wildly at pretexts for war, and the EU in this case has done nothing, and I'd just like it to play out a little more before we get roped in. I see Charade posted their latest "Death to America" exhibit. {Yawn.}

 

[eclectics]

It bought us hostages.

It is no coincidence that those people were released the same day President "I don't bargain" Reagan took office. He knew his enemy. He knew what had to be done.

They knew what they were up against and ran like hell. They're crazy, but they aren't THAT crazy. No war needed, no lives lost. To me, that's a happy ending.

Everyone likes to forget Carter did launch an attempted raid to free them. Unfortunately it did not succeed, but he did not sit on his hands all that time, as some like to believe.

 

[Cool-Beans]

I haven't been here in a while, so I don't what's been said about Iran lately. Iran seems to be grasping wildly at pretexts for war, and the EU in this case has done nothing, and I'd just like it to play out a little more before we get roped in. I see Charade posted their latest "Death to America" exhibit. {Yawn.}

Play out to what end? What would you like to wait for? Dead hostages? Or is there a certain time period that they can hold them, and that's it...after that, they're in trouble?

If the hostages and protests bore you, ignore it all. Sorry it puts you to sleep.

 

[Cool-Beans]

Everyone likes to forget Carter did launch an attempted raid to free them. Unfortunately it did not succeed, but he did not sit on his hands all that time, as some like to believe.

Oh, puhleeze! President Carter had every opportunity to get those people released...he didn't do it. He was a nice man, but he didn't have the stomach for the tough stuff.

Just the THREAT of President Reagan got those people out.

The result of weakness is hostages, bloodshed and death. The result of being strong is release of innocents, no fear of attack, no bloodshed.

IMO, President Bush needs to pick a side and stick with it. Either be tough and be done with all this or give up and let those guys do whatever they want. The in-between sucks.

 

[LakeAriel]

When Iran smells blood in the water, or perceives a weakness, they become aggressive. They have been attempting to pull off a kidnapping for a while now. http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/070323/23iran.htm

They might need a reminder of what we are capable of.

Who is we Dawn? Who's children?

 

[Charade]

Everyone likes to forget Carter did launch an attempted raid to free them. Unfortunately it did not succeed, but he did not sit on his hands all that time, as some like to believe.

Even Carter forgot to mention that on his website. Wonder why?

 

[eclectics]

Oh, puhleeze! President Carter had every opportunity to get those people released...he didn't do it. He was a nice man, but he didn't have the stomach for the tough stuff.

Just the THREAT of President Reagan got those people out.

The result of weakness is hostages, bloodshed and death. The result of being strong is release of innocents, no fear of attack, no bloodshed.

IMO, President Bush needs to pick a side and stick with it. Either be tough and be done with all this or give up and let those guys do whatever they want. The in-between sucks.

Well, that's more than I get out of Dawn, so I guess I'll take it . I have to wonder though, Reagan knew those hostages were going to be released and he had the luxury of talking big. I wonder how eager he would have been to put our military in harms way (and he would have had to do it BIG TIME) if Iran suddenly reneged on their deal.