Does ANYONE believe Iran?

[eclectics]

Even Carter forgot to mention that on his website. Wonder why?

Cause it was bungled. I never claimed the man was a military strategist. I just said he did try.

 

[Teejay32]

Play out to what end? What would you like to wait for? Dead hostages? Or is there a certain time period that they can hold them, and that's it...after that, they're in trouble?

If the hostages and protests bore you, ignore it all. Sorry it puts you to sleep.

I do ignore protests, not hostages. These hostages aren't our own though, which makes a bit of difference.

 

[Cool-Beans]

Well, that's more than I get out of Dawn, so I guess I'll take it . I have to wonder though, Reagan knew those hostages were going to be released and he had the luxury of talking big. I wonder how eager he would have been to put our military in harms way (and he would have had to do it BIG TIME) if Iran suddenly reneged on their deal.

President Reagan would have bombed the hell out of them and they knew it. They knew he meant business. That's why they released those people. There was NO DEAL for them to back out of. He DID NOT negotiate.

When they know that they'll end up dead, they behave themselves. When they think they can get away it, they pull all the crazy **** they can think up.

I do ignore protests, not hostages. These hostages aren't our own though, which makes a bit of difference.

England stood by us, and we need to stand by them. That's what friends (and allies) do.

It sets a bad, bad precedent to allow them to get away with taking hostages. Period.

Furthermore, they have announced that they ripped up the UN paperwork and will continue working on nuclear weapons. We need to stop that before they get them and release them.

For all we know, they are saying, "America, we have our weapons. If you fight us on this hostage thing, we'll go to war with you. Now do what we say." If they aren't saying it now, they will eventually. That's all we need, is to be under the thumb of crazy arabs with nuclear weapons.

 

[DawnCt1]

Who is we Dawn? Who's children?

"We" is the United States of America Ariel. One naval blockade and one well placed bomb in the middle of their one gasoline refinery will certainly cripple them economically without any substantial loss of life. When the mined the waters, Reagan sank their navy.

 

[Teejay32]

England stood by us, and we need to stand by them. That's what friends (and allies) do.

It sets a bad, bad precedent to allow them to get away with taking hostages. Period.

Furthermore, they have announced that they ripped up the UN paperwork and will continue working on nuclear weapons. We need to stop that before they get them and release them.

For all we know, they are saying, "America, we have our weapons. If you fight us on this hostage thing, we'll go to war with you. Now do what we say." If they aren't saying it now, they will eventually. That's all we need, is to be under the thumb of crazy arabs with nuclear weapons.

what is the UK doing for us to "stand by", at this time? They're not using the "H" word, they seem to be worried about saying anything to Iran that might be construed as offensive. I know they're allies, but political realities mean that they're allies only up to a point, and that point (imo) doesn't extend to us declaring war on Iran tomorrow on their behalf. They won't thank us.

 

[DawnCt1]

what is the UK doing for us to "stand by", at this time? They're not using the "H" word, they seem to be worried about saying anything to Iran that might be construed as offensive. I know they're allies, but political realities mean that they're allies only up to a point, and that point (imo) doesn't extend to us declaring war on Iran tomorrow on their behalf. They won't thank us.

And the more the Brits cowtow and pick their words with the Iranians, the more nitpicky the Iranians are. You are right. We cannot engage the Iranians on their behalf if they aren't willing to engage them as well. Blair is looking a bit weak right now.

 

[Cool-Beans]

what is the UK doing for us to "stand by", at this time? They're not using the "H" word, they seem to be worried about saying anything to Iran that might be construed as offensive. I know they're allies, but political realities mean that they're allies only up to a point, and that point (imo) doesn't extend to us declaring war on Iran tomorrow on their behalf. They won't thank us.

They went to Iraq to help us and died there. That's enough for me.

And the hell we can't call Iran and tell them to let those people go NOW or we're coming for them. We have to go in there anyway at some point. Might as well be sooner than later.

I think England probably would thank us if we got their people released. But it doesn't matter who thanks us and who doesn't. Iran has been and continues to be a problem for us and we need to end it. Now is as good a time as any.

Those guys are so lucky I'm not the President.

 

[Teejay32]

I think England probably would thank us if we got their people released. But it doesn't matter who thanks us and who doesn't. Iran has been and continues to be a problem for us and we need to end it. Now is as good a time as any.

I don't disagree with you. But the UK is part of the EU. We've had to endure a lot of sniffing and snorting from the EU about our warmongering ways and cowboy President, et cetera, when all we really needed was a good dialogue with the offenders. I'd love to see some good dialogue. And because they're our allies, I actually hope it works. It's possible that the hostages are being treated well, and that Ahmajihadi is not as big of a nut as he appears. In which case they probably will be released if the UK apologizes, and Iran's guilty of embarrassing the British, not much else.

 

[DawnCt1]

I don't disagree with you. But the UK is part of the EU. We've had to endure a lot of sniffing and snorting from the EU about our warmongering ways and cowboy President, et cetera, when all we really needed was a good dialogue with the offenders. I'd love to see some good dialogue. And because they're our allies, I actually hope it works. It's possible that the hostages are being treated well, and that Ahmajihadi is not as big of a nut as he appears. In which case they probably will be released if the UK apologizes, and Iran's guilty of embarrassing the British, not much else.

Apparently 5 or 6 top Iranian officials, a high ranking officer of the Republican guard, intelligence officers, etc have defected to the west and are singing like canaries in Europe. That has to be a craw in Ahmadinijhad's side.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

Ooo, nice to see I can still surprise some here.

You've been reading me all wrong. I'm no dove. I believe there's a time and place where you have to take a stand and fight. My differences with many people here is they think every time is that time.

I maybe a liberal Democrat on some issues, but on others, I'm to the right of Atila the Hun. Watching 1979 unfold the way it did, Iran is one of those issues.

My feelings about diplomacy with Iran is NOT because I think they're wonderful and trustworthy. They're anything but. However, diplomacy buys you time and insight about your enemy. It never hurts to look someone in the eye and have them do the same to you.

I think the Iranian government has been given every opportunity to end this crises. They've taken advantage of none of those opportunities. If they're going to let their nuts control events the way they did in 1979, it maybe time for a response.

Add me to the list of surprised, but pleasantly so.

I do think that we should be willing to step up and lend whatever assistance Britian would ask of us, but I do not think that we should step in and take control of the situation.

 

[#1MMFan]

I think the UK can manage just fine, but it is nice to know that there are people across the Atlantic backing our sentiments. We have a fine group of military, some of the best in the world, and we do things quietly and effectively. I don't particularly think Blair looks weak; I think he looks like he is trying to do things the proper way, which is not to just demonstrate force without a worsening of the situation. And you've also got to realise that whilst the EU may back the UK's sentiments and demand the release of the hostages, and the UN does whatever it does, I would highly doubt either the EU or UN would back proposed violence against Iran at this stage. That sounds very familiar doesn't it?

 

[Teejay32]

Apparently 5 or 6 top Iranian officials, a high ranking officer of the Republican guard, intelligence officers, etc have defected to the west and are singing like canaries in Europe. That has to be a craw in Ahmadinijhad's side.

I didn't know that. Hee.

 

[DawnCt1]

And you've also got to realise that whilst the EU may back the UK's sentiments and demand the release of the hostages, and the UN does whatever it does, I would highly doubt either the EU or UN would back proposed violence against Iran at this stage. That sounds very familiar doesn't it?

We realize that all too well. We do want you to know that most of us feel the same way about the kidnapping of your soldiers as we would feel about our own.

 

[LakeAriel]

"We" is the United States of America Ariel. One naval blockade and one well placed bomb in the middle of their one gasoline refinery will certainly cripple them economically without any substantial loss of life. When the mined the waters, Reagan sank their navy.

So Dawn, as you beat the war drums, yet again, what branch of the military did your children join? I only ask because a long while ago you told a poster here, one, if not two sons were signing up to proudly go and fight for their country. Since you agree with the mission, I guess you are so proud. Personally, I hope they didn't, but I certainly am curious since you seem to think everyone else should go and show the world who is the boss. (while bombing the hell out of them, of course)

 

[DawnCt1]

So Dawn, as you beat the war drums, yet again, what branch of the military did your children join? I only ask because a long while ago you told a poster here, one, if not two sons were signing up to proudly go and fight for their country. Since you agree with the mission, I guess you are so proud. Personally, I hope they didn't, but I certainly am curious since you seem to think everyone else should go and show the world who is the boss. (while bombing the hell out of them, of course)

DH has been twice and will probably be deployed again. DSs are in college and one has crohn's disease which makes him ineligible and frankly, that is more than you need to know.

 

[LakeAriel]

DH has been twice and will probably be deployed again. DSs are in college and one has crohn's disease which makes him ineligible and frankly, that is more than you need to know.

Yeah, I figured you were full of it! Stop sending others children to serve a war you endorsed, one that is a fraud and illegal.

That said, I hope your child good health. Please do the same for all Mother's. Diplomacy does not kill.

 

[DawnCt1]

Yeah, I figured you were full of it! Stop sending others children to serve a war you endorsed, one that is a fraud and illegal.

That said, I hope your child good health. Please do the same for all Mother's. Diplomacy does not kill.

No one's children get sent Ariel. We have an all volunteer military, so no, I am not full of it. You may be very mistaken to assume that diplomacy doesn't kill. Sometimes it makes a country very vunerable when the wise and judicious use of force would have done the job more effectively. Peace at all costs is not a policy.

 

[LuvDuke]

Two days in a row?? We agree on something??

Whoa, I gotta sit down.

 

[LakeAriel]

No one's children get sent Ariel. We have an all volunteer military, so no, I am not full of it. You may be very mistaken to assume that diplomacy doesn't kill. Sometimes it makes a country very vunerable when the wise and judicious use of force would have done the job more effectively. Peace at all costs is not a policy.

Yes you are full of it. You are 100 % correct your three sons do not need to join a voluntary military, which is why some call for a draft. We will probably have one if we invade Iran which Bush was itching to do long before they took the 15 sailors.
I only brought it up because YOU YOURSELF said they couldn't wait to go.


...the wise and judicious use of force would have done the job more effectively. Peace at all costs is not a policy.

Please! wise and judicious use of force? Policy? Try to pay attention Dawn.

 

[DawnCt1]

Yes you are full of it. You are 100 % correct your three sons do not need to join a voluntary military, which is why some call for a draft. We will probably have one if we invade Iran which Bush was itching to do long before they took the 15 sailors.
I only brought it up because YOU YOURSELF said they couldn't wait to go.


...the wise and judicious use of force would have done the job more effectively. Peace at all costs is not a policy.

Please! wise and judicious use of force? Policy? Try to pay attention Dawn.

Frankly I don't ever recall saying that "they couldn't wait to go". Although DS#3 will probably enlist following graduation from college.