Disney Skyliner (Gondola Transportation System) Read Post 1 Now Open!

[rteetz]

Here is an interesting article I just read a lot more information about existing gondola systems and some in-depth discussion of what it would take for Disney to implement it.
http://wdwnt.com/blog/2017/04/depth-speculation-disney-world-gondola-project-will-take-shape/

There is also a guy on WDWmagic who works on these large scale gondola projects that weighed in heavily over there.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

There is also a guy on WDWmagic who works on these large scale gondola projects that weighed in heavily over there.

...nice share

 

[Tardisblue]

Not sure what I said that warrants bad things being said. This is a problem that already has a solution implemented all over the world. It is a problem I am sure WDW is aware of and is planning for. I've never personally seen a wheelchair loaded on a gondola, but I have seen many strollers and bikes, and it was literally zero problem. Based on the operator's websites, they also claim that wheelchairs are no problem.

Here is a video showing a wheelchair and stroller loading in Breckenridge, that does not require the gondola to slow or stop (edit: apparently the forum won't use the start time in the link, start at 4:43):

I agree it would be best to have a separate rail that would allow for full stopping of the gondola (can see something similar a little later in that video for the maintenance rail). Or at least the ability to unsync the gondolas in the house to allow stopping of one gondola (and those behind it it) without preventing the capture and release of the ones behind and forward of it.

These are problems that have solutions, being worked by people that do this for a living. They aren't going to have wheelchairs and ECVs dragged along by a gondola, and I seriously doubt (hope) that they are going to install a system that requires the whole cable to be stopped every time they do an ECV or wheelchair load/unload.

Great video and it makes me even more excited to see this in place at WDW. However, Colorado is regularly ranked as one of the healthiest/fittest states in the country. Quite the opposite to what others have already expressed here about the average guest at WDW.

Walking is hard. ECVs aren't! Wall-E come to life.

 

[Tardisblue]

In the long run, I'd like to see a full Gondola system paired with a massive fleet of self driving mini-buses to wisk you directly to your destination.

Or just self driving cars/pods. Can't wait to see the discussion that rumor will start.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Great video and it makes me even more excited to see this in place at WDW. However, Colorado is regularly ranked as one of the healthiest/fittest states in the country. Quite the opposite to what others have already expressed here about the average guest at WDW.

Walking is hard. ECVs aren't! Wall-E come to life.

Dave!,Dave!!,

Look! He said it!!!

 

[OSUZorba]

Gee, and I was pretty sure condescending comments were the same in Florida as they are in Colorado.....

The issue isn't if people can load wheel chairs with out the car stopping--- it is if they can do it in WDW. The wheel chair and ECV group in WDW consist largely of people who, while even though able bodied and mobile in normal life, cannot spend the day on their feet or walking at WDW. Regardless of the reason, many of these people are new to wheel chairs.

Great video but the abilities of the guy zipping in on the chair would be about 1 in 1000 at wdw.

So while physics is the same, physical capabilities may not be.

I see, based on what you said, I thought you were saying it was physically impossible to load a wheelchair without stopping the gondola, despite evidence that it is currently done elsewhere. I didn't get that you were just saying that handicapped people at Disney were dumber than handicapped people in Colorado. :beer:

I do agree that the guy in the video is at the top end of abilities, however I think most people that are used to operating a wheelchair or stroller could do it just fine. Except for an elderly couple, in which case a CM would likely help. ECVs are different, especially since many people at WDW aren't experienced drivers.

Great video and it makes me even more excited to see this in place at WDW. However, Colorado is regularly ranked as one of the healthiest/fittest states in the country. Quite the opposite to what others have already expressed here about the average guest at WDW.

Walking is hard. ECVs aren't! Wall-E come to life.

It is true that people who live in Colorado are fitter on average than other places, but Colorado's ski towns are packed with tourist from all over, with all kinds of varied backgrounds and physical abilities, just like WDW (although I do assume there are far less ECVs). In general, people in herds just act stupid, and that holds true everywhere.

 

[OSUZorba]

Here is an interesting article I just read a lot more information about existing gondola systems and some in-depth discussion of what it would take for Disney to implement it.
http://wdwnt.com/blog/2017/04/depth-speculation-disney-world-gondola-project-will-take-shape/

That is interesting. If they do go with a larger car system, as discussed in that article, loading really shouldn't be much of an issue, since they have much larger doors and it appears like the ability to fully stop one car. Larger cars probably help with vandalism too (assuming they aren't mostly empty). I had been thinking they'd use a smaller car system, which also has some pros.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

That is interesting. If they do go with a larger car system, as discussed in that article, loading really shouldn't be much of an issue, since they have much larger doors and it appears like the ability to fully stop one car. Larger cars probably help with vandalism too (assuming they aren't mostly empty). I had been thinking they'd use a smaller car system, which also has some pros.

Vandalism?

 

[OSUZorba]

Vandalism?

People carving up the windows, writing on things, etc. If you look at that first Breck video I posted, you can see that the window has been badly scratched up. People are less likely to do such things if they are riding with people they don't know. And based on the videos on wdwmagic, apparently the larger systems can install security cameras, which I'm sure they could with the small cars as well but it would be a lot easier to monitor the reduced number of cars.

You'd think the demographic at WDW would be beyond such things, but Breck makes WDW look cheap so I am sure they typically have a pretty high end demographic too.

 

[danikoski]

No...it's a bustling city at fast pace with people wanting to get to their lives...for the most part.

It's not WDW which is almost the opposite.

It's a different example, for sure, but still fits the case.

The large chunk of people using the system at non-commuter peak times and weekends are tourists. And tourists in London are just like tourists everywhere else, including Disney.

 

[peabody58]

I am super excited for the gondolas. Although I am retired now, I would love to be a fly on the wall in the planning rooms. I have a MS - Industrial Technology with emphasis on Motion/Time Studies and Man/Machine Interfaces. With the advances in computer modeling and simulation technology, it would be a blast to test out everyone's hypotheses. I for one believe that regardless of any perceived or realized shortcomings, the future WDW Gondola system will be a home run and a great addition to the WDW infrastructure.

And for what it's worth, WHAT IF gondolas already existed (i.e., no monorails) and WDW was going to introduce Monorails!! Messages boards would be filled with the same degree of +/- comments.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The large chunk of people using the system at non-commuter peak times and weekends are tourists. And tourists in London are just like tourists everywhere else, including Disney.

Except they don't tend to be horribly unhealthy and aren't on the private property of a stock company that thinks about lawsuits above everything but profits...

I can keep batting this back indefinitely...WDW is a different case.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

People carving up the windows, writing on things, etc. If you look at that first Breck video I posted, you can see that the window has been badly scratched up. People are less likely to do such things if they are riding with people they don't know. And based on the videos on wdwmagic, apparently the larger systems can install security cameras, which I'm sure they could with the small cars as well but it would be a lot easier to monitor the reduced number of cars.

You'd think the demographic at WDW would be beyond such things, but Breck makes WDW look cheap so I am sure they typically have a pretty high end demographic too.

Ok...just making sure I read that right.

You can count the amount of vandalism incident at WDW since 1971 on about 1 hand. There used to be petty theft in parking lots...

It's not the right demographic...it's a homogenous group of thinkers for the most part.

It's not just money...it's not the right spot for it.

 

[skier_pete]

Ok...just making sure I read that right.

You can count the amount of vandalism incident at WDW since 1971 on about 1 hand. There used to be petty theft in parking lots...

It's not the right demographic...it's a homogenous group of thinkers for the most part.

It's not just money...it's not the right spot for it.

For once we agree. Ski area may be expensive - but you still get the rebellious teen boarders who think vandalism is cool. I think it will be pretty rare that a car is filled with teenage vandals. However, I do agree with the point that large cars would reduce this risk...but I seriously doubt they are going to go in the direction of the giant 50-100 person trams. These would significantly reduce the amount of people that it can accomodate, like dropping from 2000 an hour to maybe 1000 an hour. It also wouldn't make sense based on the turn station at Boardwalk...large trams couldn't make that turn.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

For once we agree. Ski area may be expensive - but you still get the rebellious teen boarders who think vandalism is cool. I think it will be pretty rare that a car is filled with teenage vandals. However, I do agree with the point that large cars would reduce this risk...but I seriously doubt they are going to go in the direction of the giant 50-100 person trams. These would significantly reduce the amount of people that it can accomodate, like dropping from 2000 an hour to maybe 1000 an hour. It also wouldn't make sense based on the turn station at Boardwalk...large trams couldn't make that turn.

We'd agree more if you wouldn't sit upside down and be so "durn ornery..."

 

[sachilles]

These are detachable cars. That means when they come into the station, they remove themselves from the haulrope(the big cable), they then are propelled by other means on a track around the station until they clamp on to the haulrope as they exit the station. You potentially have a finite amount of time one car can be, as only x number of cars can be in the station at once. However, if the station is big enough, that can be a lot of cars. This means the car can physically come to a complete stop without stopping the haulrope. So if you are hanging from it, you are still moving. Ideally you'd prefer the car move at snails pace. However it is completely plausible to have a car stop still in station for a timed interval, and not affect travel time. It just has to be done that way every time, so the pace is the same.
If that interval is the same, it makes very little difference how long that interval is. It could be 20 seconds or 60 seconds. I believe it is also possible for there to be 2 dead stops. If the only hang up is to have the car stop completely still, that can be accomplished. It just has to be repeatable.
So you can go 15mph in normal travel. Enter the station and slow to 1mph for 20 seconds, allowing walkers off, then stop still for 40 seconds(allowing ecv off), then go 1mph for 20 seconds to transition to loading side, stop still for 40 seconds to load ecv, they go 1mph for 40 seconds to load walkers. Then leave station at 15mph. The speeds/times are only examples.

 

[OSUZorba]

Ok...just making sure I read that right.

You can count the amount of vandalism incident at WDW since 1971 on about 1 hand. There used to be petty theft in parking lots...

It's not the right demographic...it's a homogenous group of thinkers for the most part.

It's not just money...it's not the right spot for it.

This is probably true, there is also a lot to the broken window theory when it comes to vandalism. Disney would be so quick to fix the vandalism, it wouldn't encourage others. I see this hiking a lot where there will be thousands of untouched trees, then one that everyone carves their names into just because someone else did.

I'm sure it happens from time to time, with how many teen travel groups there are, it just gets fixed fast enough people don't notice it.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

This is probably true, there is also a lot to the broken window theory when it comes to vandalism. Disney would be so quick to fix the vandalism, it wouldn't encourage others. I see this hiking a lot where there will be thousands of untouched trees, then one that everyone carves their names into just because someone else did.

I'm sure it happens from time to time, with how many teen travel groups there are, it just gets fixed fast enough people don't notice it.

It's just a low crime kinda place...the incidents of vandalism, however, are even lower. People I guess don't equate the two.

 

[skier_pete]

Here is an interesting article I just read a lot more information about existing gondola systems and some in-depth discussion of what it would take for Disney to implement it.
http://wdwnt.com/blog/2017/04/depth-speculation-disney-world-gondola-project-will-take-shape/

I just don't know. I've avoided using the Peak-2-Peak design (35 per car) in my comparisons, because I don't think it works in this environment. The large cars requires massive buildings and large servicing areas, as well as large towers. P-2-P is a straight line shot. As I said, you have places where this design seems to turn corners - I don't seem them doing that with this scale of cars. And it doesn't actually have a larger capacity than the other Village Gondola I was using in my example - it fits more people per car, but doesn't have a greater hourly capacity because there are less cars. P-2-P used that design because they had to run many cables to support the length of the free span - P-2-P runs 1.88 miles between the two main towers without any support.

I still think a more likely scenario is smaller cars, and "Spurs" where they can take a car off the loop to load wheelchairs/ECVs.

(BTW, if you don't like heights and want to scare yourself, ride the Peak-2-Peak. It travels between the two mountains, and it's maximum height off the ground is 1,430 feet and again a free distance of 1.88 miles, so it's just you in this little car suspended on a wire. The tip of the empire state building is 1454 feet.)

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I just don't know. I've avoided using the Peak-2-Peak design (35 per car) in my comparisons, because I don't think it works in this environment. The large cars requires massive buildings and large servicing areas, as well as large towers. P-2-P is a straight line shot. As I said, you have places where this design seems to turn corners - I don't seem them doing that with this scale of cars. And it doesn't actually have a larger capacity than the other Village Gondola I was using in my example - it fits more people per car, but doesn't have a greater hourly capacity because there are less cars. P-2-P used that design because they had to run many cables to support the length of the free span - P-2-P runs 1.88 miles between the two main towers without any support.

I still think a more likely scenario is smaller cars, and "Spurs" where they can take a car off the loop to load wheelchairs/ECVs.

(BTW, if you don't like heights and want to scare yourself, ride the Peak-2-Peak. It travels between the two mountains, and it's maximum height off the ground is 1,430 feet and again a free distance of 1.88 miles, so it's just you in this little car suspended on a wire. The tip of the empire state building is 1454 feet.)

You seem to be really struggling with this, Piotr...

...luckily you ain't building it