Disney requires too much planning? Are they shooting themselves?

[mshanson3121]

1) You're never going to get all the guests to have knowledge and to be honest you don't want it that way. Would you really want the tens of thousands of guests each day to all have FP and ADR knowledge? It works to everyone's advantage to not have everyone read up-doesn't mean my advice changes just that I know it's better that a certain percentage of guests stay in the dark.

2) It is up front and center:
View attachment 315626

It really doesn't take much digging at all. But again if all you're going to use the website for is booking.

On that point we'll just not be able to agree. Like I said extreme tunnel vision. How can one not see the tab "Things to Do" or "Help" or My Disney Experience"..how do you not question..."hmm what's this?" One of my basic advices is figuring out what types of rides and shows and attractions your traveling party wants to do. Well that's under "Things to Do" tab which I personally think makes sense. If someone wants to treat WDW's website like it's just for booking that's totally fine and maybe that plays into your viewpoint of front and center. It doesn't mean that the website doesn't have the information that could be useful to them. In other words that's on the guest not on the website.

As for #1 - I wondered if Disney intentionally kept things off the main pages for this reason.
As for #2 - Yes, we clearly disagree on the definition of front and centre/main pages. Again, not many people click on "Help" unless they have a specific need. So that's not really what I consider a main page (something typically clicked on). As for the "Things to Do", obviously most are going to click on that, yes In fact, I already mentioned this back in my first post, that FP+ is mentioned under this link, but not until you click on this link, click on the list of rides, and then it's in small print in a list of other things on each ride (and still doesn't explain what it is). Likewise, I've already stated twice that the website does have the information, but not as we keep saying, "front and centre"... of course going back to we disagree on what that is, lol I do agree for sure, that these people could/should be digging around more, especially with the MDE, but then again, Disney could/should perhaps make this information more easily found (to me, "upfront" would be having the information right on the ticket page explaining what FP+ is and that your ticket allows you to book 3 FP+, or having an easily noticed blurb on the main "To Do" attractions page), knowing that not everyone, probably not even most people, are like you, or like the others on this board. They're not heavily detail oriented, they tend to skim information, merely scratch the surface etc... because they just don't realize that Disney requires anything different. But as you said.... then we would have that many more to contend with.

 

[SaintsManiac]

I never said you NEED to book at 180 days. Going with my example, someone traveling in peak season July wanting a hard to get ADR like BOG - there's a good chance they are out of luck if they try to book well after the 180 day mark. My point was that everyone starts somewhere, even the uber planners, so I do feel for the people who think they are planning and are just late to the game. For instance, I have a friend who is a planner and researcher and decided a few weeks ago to make her first visit to Disney in August while in town for a wedding. She was bummed to learn that planning 5 months out is actually late by Disney standards and couldn't get the BOG reservation she wanted. She'll continue to check every day, but she never would have guess she was actually starting planning late rather than early.

Just because someone makes the decision to travel to WDW 4-5 months in advance, it doesn't mean they don't care about specifics. Perhaps they couldn't make any plans or arrangements until work and school schedules were in place. Perhaps they didn't know what their budget would be. There's a whole host of reasons.

And FWIW, there were likely ADR openings the night before during Thanksgiving week because that's when people who are there need to cancel by. You have to cancel by midnight the night before your ADR. So its a great time to check for an opening the next day.

I'm aware that's when you need to cancel. That was my point.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I never said you NEED to book at 180 days. Going with my example, someone traveling in peak season July wanting a hard to get ADR like BOG - there's a good chance they are out of luck if they try to book well after the 180 day mark. My point was that everyone starts somewhere, even the uber planners, so I do feel for the people who think they are planning and are just late to the game. For instance, I have a friend who is a planner and researcher and decided a few weeks ago to make her first visit to Disney in August while in town for a wedding. She was bummed to learn that planning 5 months out is actually late by Disney standards and couldn't get the BOG reservation she wanted. She'll continue to check every day, but she never would have guess she was actually starting planning late rather than early.

Just because someone makes the decision to travel to WDW 4-5 months in advance, it doesn't mean they don't care about specifics. Perhaps they couldn't make any plans or arrangements until work and school schedules were in place. Perhaps they didn't know what their budget would be. There's a whole host of reasons.

And FWIW, there were likely ADR openings the night before during Thanksgiving week because that's when people who are there need to cancel by. You have to cancel by midnight the night before your ADR. So its a great time to check for an opening the next day.

Your example of your friend reminded me back in 2016 when I was visiting my husband in MD while he was on field assignment. Because of his work we didn't know if I would be able to make it up there using his plane ticket (that he would have used to come back home) to go up and visit him to celebrate our wedding anniversary in April of that year. Anyways we only knew something like 5-6 weeks in advance but we wanted to do a White House tour. Well those tours become available 3months in advance and up to 3 weeks before your requested date. They only let you know around 2 weeks beforehand if you got the tour slot or not.

Well unfortunately they didn't have someone in our State reps office who could take the time to do a tour so we were denied but they did have an opening where an intern could take us to the Capitol Building on a different day so we did do that. We told them we would be coming back in July and they put us back on the list. We were granted a White House tour for 7/8.

My point being we were late to the game as far as booking but it's because we didn't even know if I was going to be able to go up there or not due to my husband's workload and because of the State reps's office schedule they wouldn't have been able to fit us in anyways.

I could have easily written a poor review like the kind you see about WDW sometimes--"omg don't even try to do a White House tour..you have to book 3 months in advance you shouldn't have to do that. We couldn't get in over a month in advance yada yada yada"

I know it's not exactly the same thing as WDW though.

 

[Roxyfire]

As for #1 - I wondered if Disney intentionally kept things off the main pages for this reason.
As for #2 - Yes, we clearly disagree on the definition of front and centre/main pages. Again, not many people click on "Help" unless they have a specific need. So that's not really what I consider a main page (something typically clicked on). As for the "Things to Do", obviously most are going to click on that, yes In fact, I already mentioned this back in my first post, that FP+ is mentioned under this link, but not until you click on this link, click on the list of rides, and then it's in small print in a list of other things on each ride (and still doesn't explain what it is). Likewise, I've already stated twice that the website does have the information, but not as we keep saying, "front and centre"... of course going back to we disagree on what that is, lol I do agree for sure, that these people could/should be digging around more, especially with the MDE, but then again, Disney could/should perhaps make this information more easily found (to me, "upfront" would be having the information right on the ticket page explaining what FP+ is and that your ticket allows you to book 3 FP+, or having an easily noticed blurb on the main "To Do" attractions page), knowing that not everyone, probably not even most people, are like you, or like the others on this board. They're not heavily detail oriented, they tend to skim information, merely scratch the surface etc... because they just don't realize that Disney requires anything different. But as you said.... then we would have that many more to contend with.

I don't think they do it intentionally. You cannot have all kinds of things on the main page, it's bad user experience. It's not as if the information is purposefully hidden, it's organized. I do training for a living and I know that there's only so much information you can give at one time. Some people will only want to know the very basic. Others may want to know it but not right now. Others will want to know as much as humanly possible, looking through all documentation. Most on the Disboards are the latter. Ultimately, I think it's always a buyer beware scenario. If you are spending the money, and for some it's a whole lot, be aware of what you get for the money. Some people don't care and will say "Oh we'll figure it out when we get there!" Sometimes that works out and people are none the wiser. People whose expectations are not met are ones who will complain.

 

[michbaron]

I feel like in most cases if you don’t know to make ADRs 180 days in advance then you don’t know about the important timing of a PPO at BOG to be disappointed about not getting

If you have it that you can only book 1-2 months in advance for example then you should either recognize you won’t get everything perfect because it’s late to plan and wait until it is perfect or be willing to concede some choices and not go on a forum/review site after to complain about it

 

[nkereina]

I'm aware that's when you need to cancel. That was my point.

Ok. But if these people aren't planners and don't know you need to book 180 days in advance in some cases, they likely wouldn't know you can check for availability the night before with success. If someone isn't a planner or is late to the game with planning, they are going to grab whatever they can find rather than be diligent about checking the app the day before.

I feel like in most cases if you don’t know to make ADRs 180 days in advance then you don’t know about the important timing of a PPO at BOG to be disappointed about not getting

True but I wasn't speaking specifically about a PPO ADR. I was just using BOG as a general example. Its the same with any popular restaurant. My friend traveling in August hasn't been able to find availability for any time slot at BOG on her MK day. She doesn't know the pros and cons of PPO, all she knows is that it's Beauty & the Beast theme which she loves and she'd be disappointed to miss it. Of course she will keep checking, and it goes without saying that sometimes people have luck snagging one, but that's often not the case.

 

[DisneyPrincess1984]

Been to Disney eight times - but only once as an adult/parent/spouse/head trip planner. I am a planner by nature in every single aspect of my life. I use the notepad app on my phone like no one's business. My husband's side of the family has never been and every time his mom makes mention of "oh maybe we should just go sometime," I cringe. They would hate it. They can't plan anything in advance - even simple stuff - and my father in law despises crowds. They are wonderful people but Disney is not meant for them. We went with my parents last trip and are planning all future trips with them as well. For the first trip, I felt bad leaving my in-laws out. I don't anymore. Them not having fun and not planning in advance would ruin my experience.

Disney is a magical place for people that can be patient with it. Disney is not for everyone, and that's okay.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

As for #1 - I wondered if Disney intentionally kept things off the main pages for this reason.
As for #2 - Yes, we clearly disagree on the definition of front and centre/main pages. Again, not many people click on "Help" unless they have a specific need. So that's not really what I consider a main page (something typically clicked on). As for the "Things to Do", obviously most are going to click on that, yes In fact, I already mentioned this back in my first post, that FP+ is mentioned under this link, but not until you click on this link, click on the list of rides, and then it's in small print in a list of other things on each ride (and still doesn't explain what it is). Likewise, I've already stated twice that the website does have the information, but not as we keep saying, "front and centre"... of course going back to we disagree on what that is, lol I do agree for sure, that these people could/should be digging around more, especially with the MDE, but then again, Disney could/should perhaps make this information more easily found (to me, "upfront" would be having the information right on the ticket page explaining what FP+ is and that your ticket allows you to book 3 FP+, or having an easily noticed blurb on the main "To Do" attractions page), knowing that not everyone, probably not even most people, are like you, or like the others on this board. They're not heavily detail oriented, they tend to skim information, merely scratch the surface etc... because they just don't realize that Disney requires anything different. But as you said.... then we would have that many more to contend with.

@Roxyfire beat me to it.

On a website design..all the information you're wanting wouldn't be user friendly. It's too much information on the main webpage. Have you every gone to a restaurant and looked at their menu and it was seriously cluttered? Like there was too much information to look at without separation? It makes it hard to pay attention to all what you're reading let alone make a food choice.

Disney's website is laid out like many others are. It's separated based on what you, the user, wants to do. I think there's always room for improvement for any company but I don't think Disney is failing as is. IMO their website for planning purposes far exceed's Universal's even though Universal's has similar layout when they did a redesign sometime last year or the year before the website is ridiculously slow, they don't have where you can save things to your wish list like you can with WDW (I think the only way I could save something was if I was building a vacation quote), getting information on attractions is an extra step or two (even just height restriction is very easy to find for WDW but multiple steps for Universal), etc. Now the only legup Universal has is that they made Express Pass part of the ticket transaction..there's a reason for that and it's because it costs $$$ and thus there is a small explanation right there about what EP is.

I went through and mocked selected to buy park tickets. On the check out page it prompts you to do:


So if you buy directly through Disney you're going to have to create a MDE account for ticket purchasing.

As far as improvement purposes I could see a link on the ticket page about FP+ being included in your ticket but getting nitty gritty (like explaining what FP+ is and that your ticket allows you to book 3 FP+) is best saved for elsewhere. A link to going to FP+ help page could work but that would require someone read that and click on that link. Some won't do that for sure same as what you were describing about the link on an attraction's page.

As far as putting it on the "Things to Do" page well FP+ isn't really a thing to do like attractions, shopping, dining, etc is.

It's a fine line for sure in balancing informing the customer and overloading the customer. Most often websites break things up so that the customer can find information without being bogged down with it immediately after opening the webpage.

 

[Roxyfire]

@Roxyfire beat me to it.

On a website design..all the information you're wanting wouldn't be user friendly. It's too much information on the main webpage. Have you every gone to a restaurant and looked at their menu and it was seriously cluttered? Like there was too much information to look at without separation? It makes it hard to pay attention to all what you're reading let alone make a food choice.

Disney's website is laid out like many others are. It's separated based on what you, the user, wants to do. I think there's always room for improvement for any company but I don't think Disney is failing as is. IMO their website for planning purposes far exceed's Universal's even though Universal's has similar layout when they did a redesign sometime last year or the year before the website is ridiculously slow, they don't have where you can save things to your wish list like you can with WDW (I think the only way I could save something was if I was building a vacation quote), getting information on attractions is an extra step or two (even just height restriction is very easy to find for WDW but multiple steps for Universal), etc. Now the only legup Universal has is that they made Express Pass part of the ticket transaction..there's a reason for that and it's because it costs $$$ and thus there is a small explanation right there about what EP is.

I went through and mocked selected to buy park tickets. On the check out page it prompts you to do:
View attachment 315653

So if you buy directly through Disney you're going to have to create a MDE account for ticket purchasing.

As far as improvement purposes I could see a link on the ticket page about FP+ being included in your ticket but getting nitty gritty (like explaining what FP+ is and that your ticket allows you to book 3 FP+) is best saved for elsewhere. A link to going to FP+ help page could work but that would require someone read that and click on that link. Some won't do that for sure same as what you were describing about the link on an attraction's page.

As far as putting it on the "Things to Do" page well FP+ isn't really a thing to do like attractions, shopping, dining, etc is.

It's a fine line for sure in balancing informing the customer and overloading the customer. Most often websites break things up so that the customer can find information without being bogged down with it immediately after opening the webpage.

Yep you have the same idea as me. When you go to purchase tickets, the link says "consider how many days" but really it's more about the tickets and parks. That link should probably say something like "learn more about our parks and tickets" instead. If they had a thing saying "plus all tickets include our fastpass+ for free" with that information in the same styling pop over window, it would probably be more effective. Their workflow could be overestimating people's knowledge, assuming once they are buying tickets they know what they're getting. But I think it could also be seen that's the entry point, you purchase the tickets. Then once you create the account you see more relevant information.

 

[Nimbus]

I think asking the question about Disney requiring too much planning is inherently going to get a sample bias on these forums...everyone here is a planner, or they wouldn't be here. So, for most people here, the planning aspect of a Disney Vacation--or any vacation for that matter--is a natural, don't even have to think about it, given for the people here. I think the point the OP is trying to make--or at least ask--is is the probability of having a magical time at Disney dependent on level of planning and attention to detail that the average person would not typically expect to devote.

I think the answer to that question is probably yes. Millions and millions of people travel to Disney World every year, and certainly there are not millions and millions of people on this forum or forums like this, so there is our answer. Could you do it based solely on the information available on Disney's website? I think it's possible, but I also think the site would leave you with many, many questions...thus the need for websites such as this one. Most people are not going to take the time to educate themselves to that degree. They'll look up rides and what this fast pass thing is but once you begin pulling on that string it quickly becomes overwhelming.

Think about making a FP reservation...you've got to know what park you are going to be in on what day two months before you leave. To know this, you would have consulted crowd calendars--something the average person certainly won't do. You would have to know what are the most popular rides, what are the historic wait times, and you would have to have at least a semblance of a schedule for each day...again, not something most people are going to have 60 days out. Think about making dinning reservations 160 days out and all of the research, planning, and consulting which would have already had to have been carried out a full 6 months before leaving. Again, not something the average person is going to know or do. Even the quintessential task of buying tickets quickly becomes incredibly complicated when the different extras, dates, seasons, and features are added in. And knowing which ones real be beneficial to you and your party, again, requires a bit of planning and schedule setting. So, is the probability of having a magical time at Disney dependent on level of planning and attention to detail that the average person would not typically expect to devote? Yes.

But I also think that it's a necessary by product of the behemoth of experiences that is Disney World, and I wouldn't have it any other way. And I think, by and large, the people on this forum will not consider the level of planning required is excessive, because they are planners. The average person, however, is not.

 

[Roxyfire]

I think asking the question about Disney requiring too much planning is inherently going to get a sample bias on these forums...everyone here is a planner, or they wouldn't be here. So, for most people here, the planning aspect of a Disney Vacation--or any vacation for that matter--is a natural, don't even have to think about it, given for the people here. I think the point the OP is trying to make--or at least ask--is is the probability of having a magical time at Disney dependent on level of planning and attention to detail that the average person would not typically expect to devote.

I think the answer to that question is probably yes. Millions and millions of people travel to Disney World every year, and certainly there are not millions and millions of people on this forum or forums like this, so there is our answer. Could you do it based solely on the information available on Disney's website? I think it's possible, but I also think the site would leave you with many, many questions...thus the need for websites such as this one. Most people are not going to take the time to educate themselves to that degree. They'll look up rides and what this fast pass thing is but once you begin pulling on that string it quickly becomes overwhelming.

Think about making a FP reservation...you've got to know what park you are going to be in on what day two months before you leave. To know this, you would have consulted crowd calendars--something the average person certainly won't do. You would have to know what are the most popular rides, what are the historic wait times, and you would have to have at least a semblance of a schedule for each day...again, not something most people are going to have 60 days out. Think about making dinning reservations 160 days out and all of the research, planning, and consulting which would have already had to have been carried out a full 6 months before leaving. Again, not something the average person is going to know or do. Even the quintessential task of buying tickets quickly becomes incredibly complicated when the different extras, dates, seasons, and features are added in. And knowing which ones real be beneficial to you and your party, again, requires a bit of planning and schedule setting. So, is the probability of having a magical time at Disney dependent on level of planning and attention to detail that the average person would not typically expect to devote? Yes.

But I also think that it's a necessary by product of the behemoth of experiences that is Disney World, and I wouldn't have it any other way. And I think, by and large, the people on this forum will not consider the level of planning required is excessive, because they are planners. The average person, however, is not.

Let's go back to basics. Most of the stuff like crowd calendars and what not are not necessarily required. The problem we're all having here is that we're not able to separate the planning selves from the "average" traveler. What people don't know won't really bother them, and perhaps they might be a little weirded out by all of it.

Here's a little perspective I had recently. I've posted this before but I'll post it again here, a coworker asked me on Monday about going to disney world for one day. Knowing that I knew a lot about it she asked some advice. She wants to go next month. I had to kinda stop myself from being negative because honestly, she's going with her wife and it seems like a really fun spur of the moment type thing. So why ruin that with all the "180 days and PPO and crowd calendar" type conversation. So, this morning I emailed her some information. I gave her the disney springs hotel website and the disney website (for tickets). I also told her she could plan 3 rides she wanted to do in advance and that she might want to go to Magic Kingdom if it's just one day. Maybe Epcot if they were feeling up to park hopping. That's all I said beyond, let me know if you have any questions on how to make the fastpasses or want to connect to my account for free pictures. That's it!

She doesn't need to know she "should have" booked by about a month ago to get the best fastpass selection. She probably doesn't care. I didn't bother to bring up dining reservations. But if she were to ask, I'd mention looking on the app the day before to see what she can book for the next day. She doesn't need to know she could've booked 4 months ago for Be Our Guest. She probably didn't even know she was going until a week ago. Heck, last time she went was 1972 so she probably has no idea what to expect. She emailed me back saying maybe they'll decide this weekend. And hey, if that's what they wanna do that's fine! I do hope that they take up my offer for the memory maker share, and also to book those fastpasses. This person isn't what I'd consider a lazy person either, she probably just doesn't wanna put a ton of thought into it for just one day. They'll probably have a great time because I know she's a positive outlook type of person.

I'll definitely be interested to hear her opinion of it since she'll be going at a somewhat busy time and if she felt like she got to do a lot or if it was worth the money.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think asking the question about Disney requiring too much planning is inherently going to get a sample bias on these forums...everyone here is a planner, or they wouldn't be here. So, for most people here, the planning aspect of a Disney Vacation--or any vacation for that matter--is a natural, don't even have to think about it, given for the people here. I think the point the OP is trying to make--or at least ask--is is the probability of having a magical time at Disney dependent on level of planning and attention to detail that the average person would not typically expect to devote.

I think the answer to that question is probably yes. Millions and millions of people travel to Disney World every year, and certainly there are not millions and millions of people on this forum or forums like this, so there is our answer. Could you do it based solely on the information available on Disney's website? I think it's possible, but I also think the site would leave you with many, many questions...thus the need for websites such as this one. Most people are not going to take the time to educate themselves to that degree. They'll look up rides and what this fast pass thing is but once you begin pulling on that string it quickly becomes overwhelming.

Think about making a FP reservation...you've got to know what park you are going to be in on what day two months before you leave. To know this, you would have consulted crowd calendars--something the average person certainly won't do. You would have to know what are the most popular rides, what are the historic wait times, and you would have to have at least a semblance of a schedule for each day...again, not something most people are going to have 60 days out. Think about making dinning reservations 160 days out and all of the research, planning, and consulting which would have already had to have been carried out a full 6 months before leaving. Again, not something the average person is going to know or do. Even the quintessential task of buying tickets quickly becomes incredibly complicated when the different extras, dates, seasons, and features are added in. And knowing which ones real be beneficial to you and your party, again, requires a bit of planning and schedule setting. So, is the probability of having a magical time at Disney dependent on level of planning and attention to detail that the average person would not typically expect to devote? Yes.

But I also think that it's a necessary by product of the behemoth of experiences that is Disney World, and I wouldn't have it any other way. And I think, by and large, the people on this forum will not consider the level of planning required is excessive, because they are planners. The average person, however, is not.

You're overly complicating things. You're thinking way too much like a DISer and less like how an average person visits places like this. It's why I have very simple basics.

Consult a crowd calendar? Hogwash. What average guest out there even knows that a crowd calendar exists much less knows how to use it much less knows how each person formulates their crowd calendar. Your average guest isn't even trying to figure out if a Tuesday is a better day to go to MK versus a Saturday. I simply looked at park hours and went from there. The first park day may simply be based on favorite park to go to. Now park hours need to be available lol so that's part of a problem recently with WDW. I don't think much is going to change to get Disney to release park hours further out than they do. Crowd calendars means zip natta nothing in the real world. How many darn times do people talk about Touring Plans where it was a predicted number and it was updated later on. What did having that knowledge mean anything if it was predicted to be a 6 and turned out to be a 9? Then you have blips like hurricanes. I looked just for fun at Touring Plans when planning for my September trip long after I had made the reservation--- then Irma hit. None of those predictions, even though they were low to begin with, will mean anything then because the crowd level was zilch. Worked out in our favor for sure. I made my decision purely on cost. It cost less to go the week I went versus the week later.

What are the most popular rides? Hogwash. Why would you need to know that? The most popular ride may not even be one you want to go on. I didn't have any interest in going to BOG for food so knowing that it was the hardest ADR to get meant nothing to me. If I had wanted to go to BOG not knowing it was the hardest to get ADR still would mean nothing to me because all the average person sees is they went to reserve a time and date and saw no availability. If there was availability they would have no concept of desirability or not. Maybe they even tweak times or dates and find availability then. It's no different than looking for a reservation for a restaurant elsewhere. Availability is there or it's not there. We just made a reservation last night for our anniversary dinner tomorrow. They had 6pm, 6:16pm and then it went to 7:45pm. It would be fairly easy for me to complain that "I wanted a dinner reservation for 2 people for 7pm and they didn't have it and their times are awful and it sucks yada yada yada".

Historic wait times? Hogwash. Why would you need to know that? What good is it going to do? Let's say you decide to book well in advance. How is historic wait times going to work for something like FOP which is newer. How is wait times going to work for something like a refurb which can increase wait times, etc. Average folks are unlikely to even think about what the wait time for 7DMT was back in September 2017 for their trip in September 2018.

Tickets? Well currently it's only 1 day tickets that are dependent on season though multi-days are in the cards for the future. Somehow people manage to do it with Universal where you buy date specific Express Passes. Ticket-wise the extras are pretty darn simple. It's just Memory Maker, Park Hopper and Park Hopper Plus. Park hopping isn't rocket science to understand. It simply allows you access to more than one park per day. It's not a new concept but other companies may market it as a Combo pack or something like it. The Park Hopper Plus just adds in water parks. Memory Maker is probably the harder one because it's less familar.

I think you need to think of it in terms of what information do you want to know. Your average guest does not equate to an uber exhaustive want to know the ins and outs I need to know if a 7:45am breakfast is better than a 7:30am breakfast, should I go to MK on Saturday the 14th or Tuesday the 17th, should I RD 7DMT or opt to go to the other side of the park and get less waits,etc type guest.

 

[LadyntheTramp]

I tend to think people like to complain, so for me its hard to put stock in complaints since more people are going to write a complaint vs a complement.

I think Disney does take planning but I don't feel its more than any other vacation, except maybe the beach. Honestly, even if I am going to a local amusement park I check their website to see if they have special days, deals, and meal plans. I realize that make me an outlier but my guess is most people that don't take the time to learn about fastpasses and dining reservation probably complain about any trip they go on. Or are the ones that complain that an restaurant is closed on Sunday, etc. You can do Disney with minimal planning but it still takes a little thought much like planning most vacations.

 

[Roxyfire]

You're overly complicating things. You're thinking way too much like a DISer and less like how an average person visits places like this. It's why I have very simple basics.

Consult a crowd calendar? Hogwash. What average guest out there even knows that a crowd calendar exists much less knows how to use it much less knows how each person formulates their crowd calendar. Your average guest isn't even trying to figure out if a Tuesday is a better day to go to MK versus a Saturday. I simply looked at park hours and went from there. The first park day may simply be based on favorite park to go to. Now park hours need to be available lol so that's part of a problem recently with WDW. I don't think much is going to change to get Disney to release park hours further out than they do. Crowd calendars means zip natta nothing in the real world. How many darn times do people talk about Touring Plans where it was a predicted number and it was updated later on. What did having that knowledge mean anything if it was predicted to be a 6 and turned out to be a 9? Then you have blips like hurricanes. I looked just for fun at Touring Plans when planning for my September trip long after I had made the reservation--- then Irma hit. None of those predictions, even though they were low to begin with, will mean anything then because the crowd level was zilch. Worked out in our favor for sure. I made my decision purely on cost. It cost less to go the week I went versus the week later.

What are the most popular rides? Hogwash. Why would you need to know that? The most popular ride may not even be one you want to go on. I didn't have any interest in going to BOG for food so knowing that it was the hardest ADR to get meant nothing to me. If I had wanted to go to BOG not knowing it was the hardest to get ADR still would mean nothing to me because all the average person sees is they went to reserve a time and date and saw no availability. If there was availability they would have no concept of desirability or not. Maybe they even tweak times or dates and find availability then. It's no different than looking for a reservation for a restaurant elsewhere. Availability is there or it's not there. We just made a reservation last night for our anniversary dinner tomorrow. They had 6pm, 6:16pm and then it went to 7:45pm. It would be fairly easy for me to complain that "I wanted a dinner reservation for 2 people for 7pm and they didn't have it and their times are awful and it sucks yada yada yada".

Historic wait times? Hogwash. Why would you need to know that? What good is it going to do? Let's say you decide to book well in advance. How is historic wait times going to work for something like FOP which is newer. How is wait times going to work for something like a refurb which can increase wait times, etc. Average folks are unlikely to even think about what the wait time for 7DMT was back in September 2017 for their trip in September 2018.

Tickets? Well currently it's only 1 day tickets that are dependent on season though multi-days are in the cards for the future. Somehow people manage to do it with Universal where you buy date specific Express Passes. Ticket-wise the extras are pretty darn simple. It's just Memory Maker, Park Hopper and Park Hopper Plus. Park hopping isn't rocket science to understand. It simply allows you access to more than one park per day. It's not a new concept but other companies may market it as a Combo pack or something like it. The Park Hopper Plus just adds in water parks. Memory Maker is probably the harder one because it's less familar.

I think you need to think of it in terms of what information do you want to know. Your average guest does not equate to an uber exhaustive want to know the ins and outs I need to know if a 7:45am breakfast is better than a 7:30am breakfast, should I go to MK on Saturday the 14th or Tuesday the 17th, should I RD 7DMT or opt to go to the other side of the park and get less waits,etc type guest.

Oh man, you just made me remember that I should've told me coworker to get there nice and early (which one would NOT know based on the website of course). But of course, people on vacation tend not to get up early so there's that too.

 

[JB097]

I love Disney planning. If you do your homework you can plan the exact vacation you want and eliminate a lot of variables (wait time for restaurants and rides, etc.)

I think part of the negative experience some people have is that they go to Disney expecting their trip to go as smoothly as someone who put in the extra planning time. It’s all about what the guest’s expectations are.

In general I think the planning aspect of Disney was necessary for them to maintain their customer base regardless of it popularity with guests. The system is mutually beneficial to both guests and Disney. (Allows Disney to regulate crowds, improved communication with guests, etc.) Without the organization system they have in place it would be mass chaos in the parks for both Disney and guests in my opinion.

I do think they can make the system more user friendly to improve guest experience though. (Option to push reminders for fast pass or wait list option for dining reservations)

 

[wisteria1019]

I think asking the question about Disney requiring too much planning is inherently going to get a sample bias on these forums...everyone here is a planner, or they wouldn't be here. So, for most people here, the planning aspect of a Disney Vacation--or any vacation for that matter--is a natural, don't even have to think about it, given for the people here. I think the point the OP is trying to make--or at least ask--is is the probability of having a magical time at Disney dependent on level of planning and attention to detail that the average person would not typically expect to devote.

I think the answer to that question is probably yes. Millions and millions of people travel to Disney World every year, and certainly there are not millions and millions of people on this forum or forums like this, so there is our answer. Could you do it based solely on the information available on Disney's website? I think it's possible, but I also think the site would leave you with many, many questions...thus the need for websites such as this one. Most people are not going to take the time to educate themselves to that degree. They'll look up rides and what this fast pass thing is but once you begin pulling on that string it quickly becomes overwhelming.

Think about making a FP reservation...you've got to know what park you are going to be in on what day two months before you leave. To know this, you would have consulted crowd calendars--something the average person certainly won't do. You would have to know what are the most popular rides, what are the historic wait times, and you would have to have at least a semblance of a schedule for each day...again, not something most people are going to have 60 days out. Think about making dinning reservations 160 days out and all of the research, planning, and consulting which would have already had to have been carried out a full 6 months before leaving. Again, not something the average person is going to know or do. Even the quintessential task of buying tickets quickly becomes incredibly complicated when the different extras, dates, seasons, and features are added in. And knowing which ones real be beneficial to you and your party, again, requires a bit of planning and schedule setting. So, is the probability of having a magical time at Disney dependent on level of planning and attention to detail that the average person would n etc...ot typically expect to devote? Yes.

But I also think that it's a necessary by product of the behemoth of experiences that is Disney World, and I wouldn't have it any other way. And I think, by and large, the people on this forum will not consider the level of planning required is excessive, because they are planners. The average person, however, is not.

I am in total agreement. I have visited the World more than 20 plus times and am returning in October after a seven year hiatus, traveling to other parts of the world. I love the research, the countdown etc... I am not a fan of scheduling fastpasses 60 days in advance. My only disappointment is that the opportunity for spontaneity is severely compromised. I am dedicating ten days to my upcoming trip and intend to make it a point to visit the newer attractions and some of my beloved, I will be ready on the sixty day mark. I am trying out a reverse strategy for the first half of my trip and attending the park that offered early entry the day after in the hopes that the gazillion onsite guests will tour the EMH parks. I will probably maximize my time and still enjoy the extended evening hours. We are not the typical vacation planners here on the forums. There are many more that would not consider the amount of planning that is required for a successful stay at our magical place.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Oh man, you just made me remember that I should've told me coworker to get there nice and early (which one would NOT know based on the website of course). But of course, people on vacation tend not to get up early so there's that too.

When my in-laws were going to come with us we were going to just have them meet us at the parks..we can get up earlier and out the door quicker than they can generally speaking. There were still times on our last trip where we didn't make it to the parks til 10am despite best intentions. It happens.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

There are many more that would not consider the amount of planning that is required for a successful stay at our magical place.

But keep in mind your definition of success is different than someone else's.

 

[Summer2018]

Ok. But if these people aren't planners and don't know you need to book 180 days in advance in some cases, they likely wouldn't know you can check for availability the night before with success. If someone isn't a planner or is late to the game with planning, they are going to grab whatever they can find rather than be diligent about checking the app the day before.

I knew NOTHING about the ins and outs of Disney travel on our first trip. It's a miracle we had any fun at all. I will tell you what though, we LEARNED so much through our experiences, what to do next time, and what not to do ever again. By the time we went on our second trip, I had discovered Tourguidemike.com. I had researched and read up on things. On our second trip, we were more prepared. Each and every trip we take to WDW, we get better and better at it all.

Sometimes people just have to live through experiences to learn what they like and how to maximize their fun and comfort. There are some things I don't mind practicing to get better at, and visiting WDW is one of them.

 

[Roxyfire]

When my in-laws were going to come with us we were going to just have them meet us at the parks..we can get up earlier and out the door quicker than they can generally speaking. There were still times on our last trip where we didn't make it to the parks til 10am despite best intentions. It happens.

Just goes to show it's a nice to know but not a total need to know.