Disney requires too much planning? Are they shooting themselves?

[Nimbus]

Actually no we're not in agreement. That was my point.

Your comment of "When you DO do them, however, it increases the probability of having a magical time at Disney" which you have now said twice is part of my point. You don't need to do all that indepth crowd calendar, historic wait time, etc etc to have a 'magical' time. If that's what you needed to do to have a magical time great but it's not what everyone needs to do for a good trip. Your perception is if you didn't do all the indepth planning you're doomed to have a bad time.

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Haha, yeah, that's not my point. That's actually the opposite of my point. I have said, several times now, that a degree of planning (a degree higher than what the average person does) increases the PROBABILITY of having a magical time; or, if nothing else, tempers expectations to match with reality. If you plan, are you guaranteed to have a good time? No. If you don't plan are you guaranteed to have a poor time? No. And I never said as much. But for certain, it can be argued that, as a group, the planners are less likely to walk away overtly frustrated with a Disney trip than non planners, and that is a function of the complexity of the Disney machine.

Taking advantage of what Disney has to offer (it's perks and services as well as the flows and rhythms of the parks) increases the probability of having a good time, and in order to take advantage of what Disney has to offer you must do a level of planning that the average person does not do. But to be clear, you can absolutely have a good time at Disney without taking advantage of the perks, flows, and rhythms of the parks. The first time we went to Disney, we planned absolutely nothing--I didn't even know where we were staying (I wasn't in charge of the trip)--and we had an awesome time! We went to each park and rode everything we wanted all in a single day. The parks were ridiculously low, so I can conceded we simply lucked out as getting to ride BTM, Space, Splash, Soarin', TT, MS, ToT, RR, Everest, and Kilo is not typical of a single day. Most days of the year, it would have been a very different experience.

Repeatedly getting rejected from restaurant to restaurant while others walk right in might be frustrating for a guest. Watching people walk onto rides while you wait for hours, might frustrate a guest. Parades, fireworks, character meets, eating, wait times, rider swaps, crowd levels, ride closures, rope drops...etc, etc. There's a lot that can be frustrating about these things if you walk into the park bright eyed and bushy tailed having little plans but high expectations. Doing so doesn't mean you'll have a bad time, but it does leave the door open for a lot of areas where things might not align to expectations, thus increasing the probability of a poor time.

Do you need to go commando, join a forum, and devote countless hours to learning every nook and cranny of every aspect of dinning, parks, and resorts? No...and doing so still wouldn't guarantee a good time. But as to OP's remarks, I think the Disney machine is complex enough that we can hardly be surprised when someone walks away having had a less then stellar time.

 

[hsmamato2]

don't get me wrong, I AM a planner! but my previous post about the LEVEL of planning,stands. No newbie is prepared for what they need to do to get things done on a disney trip. It's staggering,and WAY more planning than any other place I've planned for. I just put together a future trip to Hawaii(never been) that took me about 2 hours total. All booked,all set. I'll spend some time (maybe 3 hours or so) over time till I go,researching what I want to do while there. That's it. This last trip at WDW I planned for (granted,it's a family group) has been COUNTLESS hours of planning,calling,online, trying to figure details out. (standard,this is how it is for the past few years IMHO) So I guess I'm one who's going to make people happy by thinning some crowds down,at least for a while. We'll see what a couple of years brings. It's just not worth it to me.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I have said, several times now, that a degree of planning (a degree higher than what the average person does) increases the PROBABILITY of having a magical time; or, if nothing else, tempers expectations to match with reality.

Ok..perhaps what it is is the message is being crossed. You say all the indepth planning increases your probability...and I say it doesn't. I have said you need to know basic things going in. Your level of planning doesn't increase the probability of having a magical time..well it does to you. If in order to increase the odds of having a good time you feel you need to do that great but all I advocate for is the basics because all the other stuff is preference and some it just forced (like time they can go). We disagree on the level of planning.

Here's some comments from you--the original comment that I initially quoted is underlined

If you want to avoid that, you need to book fastpasses 60 days out--some people who book 60days out can't even get them.

To know this, you would have consulted crowd calendars

You would have to know what are the most popular rides, what are the historic wait times,

Want to eat at a decent restaurant at Disney? Most people don't make a reservation 6 months out, or 5, or 4. Is it necessary to do that to have a good time? No, absolutely not. But for sure it will decrease your chances of not being able to find a decent place to eat, and repeatedly getting rejected from restaurant to restaurant while others walk right in might be frustrating for a guest.

Think about making dinning reservations 160 days out and all of the research, planning, and consulting

Parades, fireworks, character meets, eating, wait times, rider swaps, crowd levels, ride closures, rope drops...etc, etc.

For me basic--
~know what FP is, that it is included in your ticket and you get 3 pre-booked ones (info from website see prior screenshots) if you want to. Even as apprehensive as I was booking FP for the first time the website does walk you through it very easily.
~know that sit-down places typically require a reservation and walk-up is not really done (info from website see prior screenshots)
~know that you can begin booking up to 180days from your start date of your trip for ADRs if you'd like to (info from website see prior screenshots)--if you want to do sit-down places this would be a good time to figure out what kinds of places your traveling party would like to eat at (info from website). No consulting needed unless by that you mean your traveling party
~know what attractions, rides and shows your traveling party would like to do (info from website see prior screenshots) so you can pre-book FP if you opt to and so that when you are there you aren't asking all the time "well what should we do, what about this ride anyone want to go on that ride?"

Once you create a MDE account you can save restaurants, attractions, shows, rides, resorts, water parks, theme parks, shopping places, etc all to your Wish List. Now the next part I don't know if an onsite stay is required or if you can just link a hotel reservation that is offsite and it still work but you can add things to your Plans like that FEA sing-a-long has a show at X time. Once you book FP those will also show up in your Plans. You can make your plans as detailed as you want or you can opt to not even use that feature. If you do though on the MDE app itself it will show you what your next thing to do from your Plans, along with any upcoming FPs and upcoming ADRs should you have them.

 

[SaintsManiac]

Ok, so if you agree that the one Disney site pretty much walks you thru everything, then what is unusually hard about planning? It's not like a trip to New York -- If you wanted to tour the Statue of Liberty and Empire State, take a cruise, ride the train, go to Coney Island, eat at 3 hard-to-get restaurants, take in a Broadway show, and go to a Mets game... THAT that would be a daunting task. It would require probly 20 phone calls and 50 websites, plus googling how to get everywhere, what you can walk to, which airport, where to book a hotel, how to get tickets -- and so on. Disney is ~ nothing like that. One site. You book everything on one site or by calling WDW-INFO. Hotel, tickets, dining at 180 and FastPasses at 60. Besides that, what else is there? Disney is pretty all inclusive. For a top world destination, it's pretty easy to book.

Think of it this way. If your fam was sent to Disney tomorrow... with 0 planning and 0 reservations. Would it really be a terrible time?

I'll be planning a NYC trip for next June and it is already giving me a headace. First timers and it's an incredibly daunting task!!

 

[MrInfinity]

What you're saying is true but I think the problem lies with the people who expect to eat where they want when they want, ride without waiting 100+ minutes, etc.

Well false expectations are not a reflection of Disney World. If I went to Six Flags tomorrow with the expectation of getting good food and riding the best rides without waiting it would fail to meet those expectations by a long shot. One would wait -- long -- for all the best rides.

You can't usually waltz up to CRT or BOG at your leisure and sit down for a meal. People who do not know this are the ones who end up disappointed and complain.

Been there. On one of our earlier trips we found out you could eat in the Castle. We walked up. Couldn't get in. Oh well. Made a mental note to book it next time. Ate somewhere else! Next time we booked it. This was about a 5 minute learning experience that some restaurants fill up. We had a wonderful trip.

 

[adamak]

I'm a planner and I have planned for WDW trips for a looooooong time. And I know planning for a couple doing Food & Wine is very different from taking DS during Spring Break. But, it IS getting increasingly frustrated because :

1. DVC members (I am one). We are more seasoned in WDW, which means we will booked up in advanced the dining, the FP, the shows...etc. We can now go during the busiest year if we booked 11 months ahead. That translate to less 'space' for non-experts. This also means, if I were to book a last minute trip, I will have no 'good' restaurants or FP left.

2. Disney do complicate things and constantly changing policies. Honestly I shouldn't have to come here to research about the various ticket options, EMM vs EMH, dining plans, which restaurants take how many credits, cancellation policies, how to use mug..etc. Esp I planned the same thing 2 years ago. I have friends who went to WDW and wait in line to buy tickets at the entrance during Thanksgiving week and only got to ride 2 rides that day. Of course their experience will be bad. My parents were foreign tourists who decided to drop by Disneyland during July 4 many years ago. I waited for Peter Pan ride for 5 hours as a kid, no food, no drink, no bathroom. That was NOT FUN. But I still think majority of visitors are in this category and Disney should do a better job serving people who are clueless.

3. It is getting too expensive for some. Entrees are now in the $30 / $40 range. It will scare some people away.

4. Disney wants you to be in the park all day long. You fight the crowds and everyone wants to do the same thing at the same time. People don't realize that. What they should have done is spread out the crowd a bit more. Have resort-to-resort buses. Get people to stay in resorts and have lower price food / bars options so there is an incentive to be away from the parks.

5. Transportation is sub-par. I should not have to allocate an hour to get from resorts to anywhere. Buses routinely take 5+ minutes to assist someone in wheelchair. They need to speed things up. Drivers shouldn't have to get off the bus, bring the ramp, strap / unstrap, repeat with each vehicle. All these little things add up.

And because of the frustration brewing last few years, I probably will spend less time visiting WDW in future years. I'll still go, but I think using my DVC points in Hawaii every few years is a better option.

 

[mshanson3121]

What you're saying is true but I think the problem lies with the people who expect to eat where they want when they want, ride without waiting 100+ minutes, etc. Then they complain about it. You can't usually waltz up to CRT or BOG at your leisure and sit down for a meal. People who do not know this are the ones who end up disappointed and complain.

In your scenario, being that you're on a Disney forum, you know and understand the benefits of planning your days, booking ADRs at 180 days, etc. You opt not to do these things which is fine, but you have realistic expectations - you know and are fine with eating wherever, you know what kind of lines to expect, etc. The average traveler may have high expectations and then are disappointed.

Exactly. And that's what some people on here are forgetting. They're not thinking like newbies who have no clue about any of this. They're thinking like experienced Disney goers. It makes a big difference.

If I were a newbie, had no idea what to expect, and went to Disney tomorrow thinking we could easily go on rides with no more than maybe a 15-20 minute wait, could just walk up and meet the characters, could walk into a restaurant that looks appealing to us when we're hungry, and sit down to eat, then we would have a miserable time. Spending $600 for our family of 4 to basically stand in line all day waiting for rides and meals and entertainment would feel like a complete and utter waste of our money. And I would a) never want to go back and b) never recommend it to others. Which is basically a lot of what I have been seeing in many of the negative comments.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I'll be planning a NYC trip for next June and it is already giving me a headace. First timers and it's an incredibly daunting task!!

We did a very touristy packed trip to NYC back in 2011. It was..a lot of planning. Logistics alone--subway routes, bus transfers, and at that time we were coming from my husband's uncle's condo in West New York, NJ so we had to take transit to get into the city.

We had pre-reserved a Pedestal Statue of Liberty tour too and that was done something like a month in advance--the Crown typically filled up 3-4 months in advanced.

We bought an NYC pass..I don't remember what company we went through though.

I think the feeling of stress is compounded by the sheer amount of stuff you can do there. It puts Disney to shame on that IMO.

 

[mshanson3121]

Been there. On one of our earlier trips we found out you could eat in the Castle. We walked up. Couldn't get in. Oh well. Made a mental note to book it next time. Ate somewhere else! Next time we booked it. This was about a 5 minute learning experience that some restaurants fill up. We had a wonderful trip.

Most people don't have a next time. Most people visiting Disney are one and done. Which certainly affects how they feel, when they've just spent thousands of dollars to miss out on a things they would have liked to do.

 

[MrInfinity]

Most people don't have a next time. Most people visiting Disney are one and done. Which certainly affects how they feel about missing out on things.

It still wasn't an issue. We had no plans to go back and didn't for several years. We didn't "miss out on things". That's a completionist view. That you must do all the most exclusive things to have a great time or not "miss out". We were at Disney World the last thing that mattered was if we could or could not get into a restaurant we didn't even know existed.

And BTW most people are not one and done. I know lots of guests on the Dis most of which go / have gone more than once, and I know lots of guests in real life which have all gone once and plan to go back someday or have gone multiple times. I don't think I actually know anyone who went once and said nope that's it never again. Just saying your "most people visiting Disney are one and done" is not based on anything other than making something up to back up your view. If you'd said some people maybe but not most.

I have said you need to know basic things going in. Your level of planning doesn't increase the probability of having a magical time..well it does to you. If in order to increase the odds of having a good time you feel you need to do that great but all I advocate for is the basics because all the other stuff is preference.

I would totally agree with this, that planning increases the probability of having a magical time for a planner that wants specific things planned. However outside the Dis, this "must do all the rarest things to be successful" ideal does not prevail. That is something that planners develop within themselves.​

 

[Roxyfire]

Most people don't have a next time. Most people visiting Disney are one and done. Which certainly affects how they feel, when they've just spent thousands of dollars to miss out on a things they would have liked to do.

I would be careful throwing around the word "most" because we don't know the full amount of repeat visitors and may never. I think "some" is much more effective for your argument here. But you're also making a negative assumption when a neutral one could also apply. I do agree that Fear of Missing Out (FOMO) has become a real thing in our social media landscape. But sometimes (shouldn't say many myself!), you tell people that "Yes you can eat in the castle for about $80 per adult plus tax" they may not care that they "missed out" after all.

 

[Nimbus]

Ok..perhaps what it is is the message is being crossed. You say all the indepth planning increases your probability...and I say it doesn't. I have said you need to know basic things going in. Your level of planning doesn't increase the probability of having a magical time..well it does to you. If in order to increase the odds of having a good time you feel you need to do that great but all I advocate for is the basics because all the other stuff is preference and some it just forced (like time they can go). We disagree on the level of planning.

For me basic--
~know what FP is, that it is included in your ticket and you get 3 pre-booked ones (info from website see prior screenshots) if you want to. Even as apprehensive as I was booking FP for the first time the website does walk you through it very easily.
~know that sit-down places typically require a reservation and walk-up is not really done (info from website see prior screenshots)
~know that you can begin booking up to 180days from your start date of your trip for ADRs if you'd like to (info from website see prior screenshots)--if you want to do sit-down places this would be a good time to figure out what kinds of places your traveling party would like to eat at (info from website). No consulting needed unless by that you mean your traveling party
~know what attractions, rides and shows your traveling party would like to do (info from website see prior screenshots) so you can pre-book FP if you opt to and so that when you are there you aren't asking all the time "well what should we do, what about this ride anyone want to go on that ride?"

Once you create a MDE account you can save restaurants, attractions, shows, rides, resorts, water parks, theme parks, shopping places, etc all to your Wish List. Now the next part I don't know if an onsite stay is required or if you can just link a hotel reservation that is offsite and it still work but you can add things to your Plans like that FEA sing-a-long has a show at X time. Once you book FP those will also show up in your Plans. You can make your plans as detailed as you want or you can opt to not even use that feature. If you do though on the MDE app itself it will show you what your next thing to do from your Plans, along with any upcoming FPs and upcoming ADRs should you have them.

I honestly think we are in agreement. What you have described as a basic level of planning is more than what I think the average typical family does before going to Disney. Most first time guests, I'd argue, have a fairly weak understanding of FP before actually going. They underestimate the importance of reservations. Consulting the party about food and attractions is something that is probably put off until they are actually at the park. Many don't make MDE accounts (I think people in general are turned off by the idea of creating accounts). For us, booking FP, updating MDE, making dinner reservations, etc. are very basic, obviously you do this before you go type tasks. For most people, I would say, they are probably not.

 

[Roxyfire]

I honestly think we are in agreement. What you have described as a basic level of planning is more than what I think the average typical family does before going to Disney. Most first time guests, I'd argue, have a fairly weak understanding of FP before actually going. They underestimate the importance of reservations. Consulting the party about food and attractions is something that is probably put off until they are actually at the park. Many don't make MDE accounts (I think people in general are turned off by the idea of creating accounts). For us, booking FP, updating MDE, making dinner reservations, etc. are very basic, obviously you do this before you go type tasks. For most people, I would say, they are probably not.

All the stuff about dining reservations is really personal preference. Some people literally cannot decide where they want to eat tonight. I wouldn't expect them to make a dining reservation 2 days in advance let alone 6 months. And considering all the last minute availability those that do book end up cancelling. It's not essential to book a restaurant in advance if you don't care or don't know where you want eat. If you want a specific place then yes it's important. Each time I see less and less point in booking any dining at 180 days.

 

[SaintsManiac]

Again, you do NOT need to be an obsessive planner to enjoy a Disney vacation. You do not NEED to make dining at 180. You can get just about every FP other than FoP and 7DMT within 30 days or even the day before. The DIS can make you feel that you must plan down to the minute, but we've done some winging it on our trips and had an even better time than if we walked around with a mental checklist of what MUST be done.

 

[Roxyfire]

Again, you do NOT need to be an obsessive planner to enjoy a Disney vacation. You do not NEED to make dining at 180. You can get just about every FP other than FoP and 7DMT within 30 days or even the day before. The DIS can make you feel that you must plan down to the minute, but we've done some winging it on our trips and had an even better time than if we walked around with a mental checklist of what MUST be done.

Yeah I don't think it "requires" obsessive planning. It requires some planning, but I think obsessive is a bit much. And of course, for some people obsessive would be planning your rides 2 months in advance. For me it's reassuring at even if lines are crazy, we'll get to do certain things at least once.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I honestly think we are in agreement. What you have described as a basic level of planning is more than what I think the average typical family does before going to Disney. Most first time guests, I'd argue, have a fairly weak understanding of FP before actually going. They underestimate the importance of reservations. Consulting the party about food and attractions is something that is probably put off until they are actually at the park. Many don't make MDE accounts (I think people in general are turned off by the idea of creating accounts). For us, booking FP, updating MDE, making dinner reservations, etc. are very basic, obviously you do this before you go type tasks. For most people, I would say, they are probably not.

Therein lies the problem though and what I was getting at. I advocate for knowledge of basic things. You advocate for knowing and doing and consulting and seeking out other websites and etc for xyz.

For you--booking ADRs is just what you do. For me no way. I like to describe it as some people on the DIS would consider it a sin that I don't care about sit-down places. In 2017 it was the first time I had done an ADR and that's because I wanted to branch out as in 2011 and before trips no sit-down places. While we had no problem with our meals it's not as if our trip would have been ruined had we not eated at the 3 places we did eat at. We would have been fine without them. But if I knew going in that if I wanted to do sit-down then I need to reserve rather than walk-up and that I can reserve up to 180days in advance if I want to..that's all I actually should know. Booking ADRs is a personal perference.

Like I mentioned your level of planning checking crowd calendars, historic wait times, etc would ruin the trip for my in-laws. They don't want that level of planning for any trip. We like to plan (though historic wait times I didn't care about and crowd calendars weren't what I based my decision on) but we know they don't. We both compromise and do a blend. Somehow my neighbors went to WDW 2 years ago with their elementary school aged kids and had the time of their lives. They didn't do all the high level planning. They also went in July--because that's when they could go.

 

[mshanson3121]

I would be careful throwing around the word "most" because we don't know the full amount of repeat visitors and may never. I think "some" is much more effective for your argument here. But you're also making a negative assumption when a neutral one could also apply. I do agree that Fear of Missing Out (FOMO) has become a real thing in our social media landscape. But sometimes (shouldn't say many myself!), you tell people that "Yes you can eat in the castle for about $80 per adult plus tax" they may not care that they "missed out" after all.

I said most because I have seen more than one article speaking about Disney's fan base (etc) which said that most are made up of one time guest. Something like "only" 30% (which is still relatively high) of their visitors are repeat guests (higher at Disneyland). But who knows, maybe their facts and statistics were wrong.

 

[Roxyfire]

I said most because I have seen more than one article speaking about Disney's fan base (etc) which said that most are made up of one time guest. Something like "only" 30% (which is still relatively high) of their visitors are repeat guests (higher at Disneyland). But who knows, maybe their facts and statistics were wrong.

I don't know that Disney releases that info, so anything self-reported probably isn't going to be 100% accurate.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I said most because I have seen more than one article speaking about Disney's fan base (etc) which said that most are made up of one time guest. Something like "only" 30% (which is still relatively high) of their visitors are repeat guests (higher at Disneyland). But who knows, maybe their facts and statistics were wrong.

It could just be the way you phrased it.

But let's use your percentage and say that 70% of visitors are one-time only for example's sake here. It does not by any means give you an actual idea of how people feel just by looking at FB comments or travel review sites. I'm not sure if 2017 attendance numbers are available yet but in 2016 according to one site had 53.7 visitors. If you use your 70% of visitors are one-time only guests that means roughly 37.59 million guests were one-time. What travel site are you seeing that has near enough reviews to get a grasp on how most one-time visitors feel after going on their trip?

Even then the first-time person, the been several times person, the been all the time person all can have a bad time due to some reason. All can say they missed out on something, all can say how they feel in relation to the $ spent, all can swear off Disney forever, all can say "don't go to Disney" to other people. People could do all the planning in the world and still feel like it wasn't a good time, people can do virtually no planning and still feel like it was a good time, etc.

But if you look at the FB comment I screenshoted you can see how misleading reviews can be especially if the commentor doesn't go into full depth or you the reader don't see all the replies. Generally speaking you're going to get what you always get--a sample of people. Even people around you. I see threads all the time about how people say "so and so didn't come to me for advice, well they're going to have a terrible trip".. and generally that is based on how they personally feel. And then other people can easily chime in saying they know so and so who went and had a fantastic time without xyz. Clearly people know people on both sides-ones who had a great time and ones who had a terrible time but we don't really know how the majority/most of one-time visitors feel about their trip.

 

[mshanson3121]

It could just be the way you phrased it.

But let's use your percentage and say that 70% of visitors are one-time only for example's sake here. It does not by any means give you an actual idea of how people feel just by looking at FB comments or travel review sites. I'm not sure if 2017 attendance numbers are available yet but in 2016 according to one site had 53.7 visitors. If you use your 70% of visitors are one-time only guests that means roughly 37.59 million guests were one-time. What travel site are you seeing that has near enough reviews to get a grasp on how most one-time visitors feel after going on their trip?

Even then the first-time person, the been several times person, the been all the time person all can have a bad time due to some reason. All can say they missed out on something, all can say how they feel in relation to the $ spent, all can swear off Disney forever, all can say "don't go to Disney" to other people. People could do all the planning in the world and still feel like it wasn't a good time, people can do virtually no planning and still feel like it was a good time, etc.

But if you look at the FB comment I screenshoted you can see how misleading reviews can be especially if the commentor doesn't go into full depth or you the reader don't see all the replies. Generally speaking you're going to get what you always get--a sample of people. Even people around you. I see threads all the time about how people say "so and so didn't come to me for advice, well they're going to have a terrible trip".. and generally that is based on how they personally feel. And then other people can easily chime in saying they know so and so who went and had a fantastic time without xyz. Clearly people know people on both sides-ones who had a great time and ones who had a terrible time but we don't really know how the majority/most of one-time visitors feel about their trip.

Look this is pointless. You are determined your view is right and everyone else is wrong. I didn't say anything about ALL first timers did I? I commented on some reviews I saw. And for the record, I read the comment replies, too. I've been reading comments/reviews for a long time. I didn't base this question on one or two. But again you believe what you want. Have a great day.