Disney has lost another family - do they care?

[KAT4DISNEY]

Do some people plan a trip to Orlando and just fly by the seat of their pants? Maybe.

Of course they do. Probably a lot more than you'd ever suspect.

And those people probably can't imagine the fact that they are visiting the parks with people that planned where they were going to eat 6 months before that day. For that matter I can't hardly imagine it either!

OP - all I can say is that eventually, if enough people do as you plan, Disney will care.

 

[fla4fun]

Wouldn't most people fully intend to visit the Disney parks while in Orlando anyway? We go many places but I can't imagine us skipping the Disney parks unless we're in the area for a particular event. I just wonder if those who wait to buy tickets is really such a large amount. Maybe but it would surprise me.

I think it would surprise you. I've worked for three authorized ticket resellers that have a physical presence in Orlando, and they are all multi-million dollar companies - doing nothing but selling attraction tickets to guests who have arrived without pre-buying. If you add all the in-market authorized sellers to the sales made at the attraction gates, it's a huge market.

I do think that the reason we've been seeing so many resort commercials on television is that instead of trying so hard to promote FP+, they are trying to just get more people to stay on property and THEN hit them with the emails and snail mail about the new system. That way they don't have to get into the differences between on property and off property.

 

[Cyrano]

Folks a reminder to respect posters and all viewpoints.
Please note that this thread is for everyone and 1 to 1 conversations should be restricted to Private Messages.

By the way this thread is just as relevant to the many where folks say they are happy with FP+. As always best advice is do not open, read or post on topics which do not interest you. There is always plenty of other topics on the board

 

[OldSpiceGuy]

Disney is a corporation, I'm not sure that a for profit corporation can ever really care about anything other than profit and loss. They will always find ways to drive park revenue up. I honestly don't think there are enough people upset about FP+ to force them to change it significantly.

But....if there were enough people that were upset I doubt they would tweak the system. They'd just find more creative ways to maximize the revenue they get from the folks that do still visit

 

[katallo]

We are going in May and I feel we will agree with OP. Friends just returned from a week at the GF. They booked ADR's and FP+. Thought they had a great schedule. They were so aggravated when they returned. Arrived at GF to find transportation would be a challenge with the monorail not running a full schedule. They had to depend on busses and boats. Then had 3 days of rain. They had to change a few ADR's to try to allow for extended transportation times to get to restaurants (then worried about being charged the $10 no show fee if they were late or could not make it). From the GF to Epcot dinner it took 50 minutes. They said it was awful trying to reschedule FP's. This was their first trip in 3 years (with grandchildren) and said they will probably taking a long break before returning. Just too much of a hassle. We have been going for over 30 years and I will see how things go for us in May. Hopefully, things will improve for off-site guests as well.

 

[AmyB2006]

The FPs have nothing to do with "locking you in." If you purchase a 6 day pass before you head to Orlando, the easy money says you're spending 6 days in Disney parks. Your tickets (which expire 14 days after the first use unless you spring for the No Expiration option) lock you in. They always did. Unless you didn't use days and lost them. I still fail to see how changing the FP system forces you to go to Disney parks or locks you in to going to Disney parks when you're in Orlando.

Well, Disney thinks it does. They're even using that term in their new marketing strategy for FP+. Their CEO or CFO, whoever he is, has even made these statements. I'm not sure why you're saying this isn't part of Disney's plan when Disney execs themselves have made these statements.

ETA... Here's a link to one of their new commercials that I'm sure they'll eventually run. But you can find it all over the internet. About "locking it in".
http://thedisneyblog.com/2014/01/21...isney-world-part-3-the-marketing-push-begins/

 

[BuckeyeBama]

10 years ago, WDW was run in such a way that folks on this board had a huge advantage. They sang Disney's praises daily, and threw down Disney's detractors. Now WDW makes a change, and one of the primary means of advantage is removed, so Disney "does not care"? Wow!

Consider how self-absorbed someone has to be to reach this conclusion. It really isn't about YOU.

 

[Bullseye]

FP+ is actually a huge help to those who hop! You need to schedule your selections for your second park of the day, not your first. Then you can show up to your second park in the evening and quickly knock out 3 rides, including headliners that, under the old system, would no longer have FPs to pull. The hopper option looks more appealing to us now than it did before.

smitch, smitch you son of a.....gun. Good point!

The FPs have nothing to do with "locking you in." If you purchase a 6 day pass before you head to Orlando, the easy money says you're spending 6 days in Disney parks. Your tickets (which expire 14 days after the first use unless you spring for the No Expiration option) lock you in. They always did. Unless you didn't use days and lost them. I still fail to see how changing the FP system forces you to go to Disney parks or locks you in to going to Disney parks when you're in Orlando.

Exactly, if you buy a certain number of days it makes sense that you would be going to the parks for that number of days. I keep picturing the CM's blocking you when you try to exit the park "get your butt back in there and spend some money...this is a lock in!"

I love when people make up absolute GARBAGE numbers they pull out of thin air and pretend as if they have an clue what they are talking about ... I love it, they make such awesome sense, nothing fuzzy about that logic at all.

I totally agree a thousand percent with this...

Oh, I have a lot more than 900 posts.

That's funny... when I first read that post I thought if only 900 posts makes you a WDW lover what does that make folks with uber post counts like Dan Murphy, Planogirl, and Robo...WDW obsessed

 

[kellyg403]

we didnt originally plan round FP either but the new system is now making the SB lines wayyy longer than they normally were so now its virtually impossible to get a ride with a SB of under one hour now as opposed to 20 mins norm for this time of year

I agree. We went with dd and her family in Dec. I didn't read much of the threads on here regarding fp+ because I wanted to go in with an open mind. I typically search out those threads with how to information as it was difficult to navigate for me.

Regardless, our touring style changed dramatically. We always use hoppers in the past and we always had the ability to grab those rides we wanted to. Dh and I aren't 'thrill' riders per se but we enjoy BTMRR, TT, Safari etc. We have never really even used FP in the past. So, even using them was a change for us. We go to WDW in Dec, usually 2nd week. Sometimes its busier than others and there have been times there were no fp for a particular ride in a particular park and standby was 120 minutes, so for us, missing out on a particular ride isn't a big deal either.

The biggest problem for us was that it felt like we were just too scheduled during the day. The app on the IPhone either wouldn't download, gave us user error message etc so changing on the fly didn't help. There were days when we knew before getting on the bus from our resort that we needed to change something and started trying to log in to do so. Then there were the times that one person didn't work, but everyone else did. It became a running joke on who would get to ride that day. The CM's usually waived the person through, but at Soarin', EE they turned the person away. At EE, SB was 15 minute wait so we all just went through SB the first time.

We are going again in Nov and it will just be dh and I. We will see how it works for us. He had issues with his MB a few times when entering Epcot. Both at the front and back. For whatever reason it was the only park and he was the only person it happened too. They waived him through, which was nice but it was frustrating for my dh. He goes to WDW because I love it. He likes it, but we both know he goes to make me happy and to eat at the restuarants. I try to repay his kindness but planning a vacation as opposed to a run from area to area. He just did not enjoy himself in Dec and we have both agreed that should the same things bother him in Nov when its just the two of us and there is no need to ride all the headliners, we are probably going to go every couple years instead of every year, and eventually probably not at all. He values his vacation time, as we all do, but vacation for him is fun and relaxing. He has even commented that possibly he would prefer to do a trip with no tickets and just resort hop/try out new places to eat.

I can't imagine staying offsite and not being able to book ahead. However, in Disney's defense, it is new and there are glitches. Hopefully as time goes on and more changes are made, things will be smoother and we will have better outcomes. I can say that FP+ lines were upwards to 20 30 minutes the whole time we were there for headliners. I have not gone in the summer so I don't know if this is comparable to other crowded times, but in the past when we have used paper fp, we came at our time and were pretty much walkon's.

OP, I hope your trip is going better and much pixie dust

Kelly

 

[crostorfer]

I don't plan around FP or park hopping. We rarely park hop even when we have AP's and a lot of times we don't bother with FP either.
We go 3 to 4 times a year and still seem to have a wonderful time & ride what we want to without a long wait. Just don't understand what the problem is.
Yeah go on over to Uni & PAY for your fast pass......

You don't pay extra for the UEP if you stay on site there, and you get to go to the front of the line of every ride but two. You can't compare FP+ to Universal Express. Apples and oranges.

That said, I would GLADLY pay for more FP+ at WDW. Many people, myself included, think it's coming, I just wish they would doll it out immediately so I can buy more for Spring Break next month. I would gladly buy 2-3 more per day in the MK. If they allowed me to buy multiples of the same ride, I'd buy 2-3 more per day in every park.

 

[subtchr]

This thread has taken on such a life of its own that I am pretty sure I will never get an answer from the OP to the question I asked on the first page...but I will try again just in case he or she revisits.

Were you able to get any day-of FP+ in the parks? I had great luck doing so a few weeks ago at a slower time, so I'd love to know what was available on a busier time.

Thanks!

 

[crostorfer]

The FPs have nothing to do with "locking you in." If you purchase a 6 day pass before you head to Orlando, the easy money says you're spending 6 days in Disney parks. Your tickets (which expire 14 days after the first use unless you spring for the No Expiration option) lock you in. They always did. Unless you didn't use days and lost them. I still fail to see how changing the FP system forces you to go to Disney parks or locks you in to going to Disney parks when you're in Orlando.

Of course it does. The executives said so to their share holders, straight from the horse's mouth. It's intent is to lock you, and your money, on property.

Nothing forces you to go to Orlando, or visit WDW, and this system doesn't "force" you to stay on property. It's meant to monopolize the time of a WDW guest to keep them from heading up I-4 to US or Seaworld for part of their day. If you nudge your guests to schedule their time, before even leaving home, and nudge them to spread out their FP+ time and ADR's, you're trying to lock their daily plans in. It makes sense now why they don't allow for FP+ reservations in more than one park per day. If you can only go to the MK today, well because there is more of WDW to see, rather than go to Universal tomorrow, you'll stay and go to DHS. The lines too long there today? Well, we'll make reservations there, tomorrow. It's all designed to lock your time and money in. Whether or not anyone chooses to conform to their, (Disney's), desired model is a personal choice, however. You don't HAVE to use FP+. You don't HAVE to stay in the park. If you choose not to stay, however, especially during a busy time of year, you aren't getting full use of your very expensive park ticket.

 

[kellyg403]

Of course it does. The executives said so to their share holders, straight from the horse's mouth. It's intent is to lock you, and your money, on property.

Nothing forces you to go to Orlando, or visit WDW, and this system doesn't "force" you to stay on property. It's meant to monopolize the time of a WDW guest to keep them from heading up I-4 to US or Seaworld for part of their day. If you nudge your guests to schedule their time, before even leaving home, and nudge them to spread out their FP+ time and ADR's, you're trying to lock their daily plans in. It makes sense now why they don't allow for FP+ reservations in more than one park per day. If you can only go to the MK today, well because there is more of WDW to see, rather than go to Universal tomorrow, you'll stay and go to DHS. The lines too long there today? Well, we'll make reservations there, tomorrow. It's all designed to lock your time and money in. Whether or not anyone chooses to conform to their, (Disney's), desired model is a personal choice, however. You don't HAVE to use FP+. You don't HAVE to stay in the park. If you choose not to stay, however, especially during a busy time of year, you aren't getting full use of your very expensive park ticket.

I think they have done a good job! Our past touring style was much more relaxed with much more down time. We would always spring for length of stay tickets, because those last few days cost were minimal when you have paid the most for the first few days. It left us open on those last couple days for 10.00 a person, to decide what to do. Lets face it, I can't even spend 10 in a gift shop at WDW and get my money's worth. Spending 10 bucks on a day's tickets is a drop in the bucket whether you use it wisely or not.

It felt like we spent a lot of time in one park, wasting time, criss crossing the parks. Yes, I could have done a better job in the planning department. But again, typically we are not FP users to begin with. We plan our day around a lunch or dinner. Sometimes we start at AK and head to Epcot for dinner. Morning FP+ would then be more beneficial for us. We enjoy more of the shows, street performers, Off Kilter in Epcot. TT and Crush are the only two things we really like to do ride wise. Maelstrom didn't have 2 hour SB waits, so we could easily ride that late in the day if we had to ride a ride.

Again, hopefully, with just the two of us and a more relaxed touring, it will be business as usual.

Kelly

 

[MrInfinity]

I used FP within the "rules", and did so with Disney's blessing. I took more than my "fair share" because WDW said I could and I wanted to.

Surely you realize there are MANY things in life that are "within the rules" yet are still abuse. Just. Wow -- If anything is not against a rule you consider it justifiable. This is why there are so many rules in modern society.

Unless you drop this FP "abuser" crap, I'm not going to take a single one of your posts seriously.

So? Disney does. Disney acted. They put a stop to such actions cuz they cost Disney money. They have put in a better system that prevents such "extreme use"? (use whatever word you want) but Disney put a stop to it.

If it was the way Disney wanted it to be used, they would make it work that way now! So OBVIOUSLY it is not the way they wanted it to work.

I don't care if some guy on a web forum takes me seriously. Disney takes their guests seriously, and Disney takes profit seriously. That's awesome for Disney, and awesome for all of us.

It is not my problem that you chose to use it not as much

Don't see why you'd assume this, as I used it as much as anyone. I was a runner too. I will get on fewer rides now. Yet, here I still applaud Disney for a sound decision and great strategy. I can look beyond what I'm not going to get and see that this system really is good in so many ways.

and did so with Disney's blessing

Sure you did. That's why they're blessing you and inviting you to continue. "No no, you go right ahead and take more than your share, it's ok that you cost us more money and other customers get on less".

Or is it more... "some folks are doing this, but most are touring like this... if we cut down on this (abuse? <-insert friendly, inviting word of your choice here) we can make a bunch of other guests happier, get more ppl on more rides, and make more money."

I didn't need your approval to go on ahead with that plan thankyouverymuch.

Correct. You need Disney's. And Disney is saying "no -- you used to get away w this, but because of technological advancements, we can now stop it".

 

[wdwfreak]

Well, Disney thinks it does. They're even using that term in their new marketing strategy for FP+. Their CEO or CFO, whoever he is, has even made these statements. I'm not sure why you're saying this isn't part of Disney's plan when Disney execs themselves have made these statements.

ETA... Here's a link to one of their new commercials that I'm sure they'll eventually run. But you can find it all over the internet. About "locking it in".
http://thedisneyblog.com/2014/01/21...isney-world-part-3-the-marketing-push-begins/

There is a difference between them telling you you can "lock in" experiences when you get there and them telling us directly they are locking US in to a Disney vacation. FP+ does not lock you in to a Disney vacation any more than the old FP system did. Disney (and any other smart business) is always going to use marketing ploys to get you to buy their product. Just because you can book FP windows ahead of time doesn't mean you are forced to go to Disney on any particular day or spend a particular amount of time there, which was the point I was originally arguing.

Of course it does. The executives said so to their share holders, straight from the horse's mouth. It's intent is to lock you, and your money, on property.

Nothing forces you to go to Orlando, or visit WDW, and this system doesn't "force" you to stay on property. It's meant to monopolize the time of a WDW guest to keep them from heading up I-4 to US or Seaworld for part of their day. If you nudge your guests to schedule their time, before even leaving home, and nudge them to spread out their FP+ time and ADR's, you're trying to lock their daily plans in. It makes sense now why they don't allow for FP+ reservations in more than one park per day. If you can only go to the MK today, well because there is more of WDW to see, rather than go to Universal tomorrow, you'll stay and go to DHS. The lines too long there today? Well, we'll make reservations there, tomorrow. It's all designed to lock your time and money in. Whether or not anyone chooses to conform to their, (Disney's), desired model is a personal choice, however. You don't HAVE to use FP+. You don't HAVE to stay in the park. If you choose not to stay, however, especially during a busy time of year, you aren't getting full use of your very expensive park ticket.

Again, I'm not sure if you're disagreeing with me or adding to my original point...FP+ (the "new system" as a PP pointed out) doesn't force you or lock you in to anything. For example. I have FP+ reservations at the MK for March 14th. I can change those up until that day. If we wake up that morning and decide we want to go to Epcot, we'll cancel those for the MK and book new ones for Epcot. If we want to cancel them altogether and go to IOA instead, we can do that. We still have as much freedom to choose as we always did.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I'm not sure how many people wait to buy tickets that stay on property. I can't believe this is Disney's financial justification for a 1B dollar project.

Disney execs have stated in the press that the intent of mm+ was to get people to keep people on property

 

[Spork24]

Disney is a corporation, I'm not sure that a for profit corporation can ever really care about anything other than profit and loss. They will always find ways to drive park revenue up. I honestly don't think there are enough people upset about FP+ to force them to change it significantly. But....if there were enough people that were upset I doubt they would tweak the system. They'd just find more creative ways to maximize the revenue they get from the folks that do still visit

Just like coke stuck with new coke when everyone hated it. They just learned to do more with less.... Wait, that didn't happen either. If significantly more people hated FP+ then Disney would definitely tweak the system to keep them coming back. But lots of us like it (or will once the glitches are ironed out).

I'm still pretty sure we haven't seen the final FP plus. I'm guessing either onsite guests will get a fourth, or pay per FP for additionals is coming. I would love to see either.

 

[MrInfinity]

I think some of the people that call it abuse are the ones who did not take advantage of the old system because they were behind the curve by missing RD. I think most people would utilize it to the max if they could. There are very few people that would not use it to the max out of a misplaced belief that it was wrong.

I took full advantage of the old system too! So I'm in the same group as you. Yet, I don't feel as put off as everyone else. I think it's because the new system applies to everyone. So altho *I* will get fewer FPs, since everyone else will too, we're not really getting less than each other. We're all equal, and can still attempt to get on more rides by using other methods.

And, the system making more money for Disney makes me happy! I want Disney to be profitable. A profitable park reinvests in things like Fantasyland and Pandora. FP+ has already PROVEN to be increasing profit for Disney. Profit is mega-up, stock is mega-up, investors are stoked, and things look awesome for 2014.

This is such great news that is so much bigger than me not running for FPs. And, the "tangential benefits" of not having to split up, being able plan my day ahead of time, etc, all lead me to think I'll actually have a better time at the park, despite getting fewer FP tickets.

 

[btk2333]

It is not my problem that you chose to use it not as much

Don't see why you'd assume this, as I used it as much as anyone. I was a runner too. I will get on fewer rides now. Yet, here I still applaud Disney for a sound decision and great strategy. I can look beyond what I'm not going to get and see that this system really is good in so many ways.

I'm the same way- we ran- we collected FPs, we used them after the return times when that was allowed (and with each change or rumored change to the legacy system I saw people overreact just like they are to FPP). I still believe the new system is better for WDW long term- will they alienate a few users? Sure. However, I think more people will be able to make use of FP than ever before.

I disagree that we were doing anything wrong by pulling excessive numbers of legacy FP- I think Disney saw that many people were not making use of the system and decided to change it. They didn't roll out the original system thinking that people would police themselves.

 

[btk2333]

Just like coke stuck with new coke when everyone hated it. They just learned to do more with less.... Wait, that didn't happen either. If significantly more people hated FP+ then Disney would definitely tweak the system to keep them coming back. But lots of us like it (or will once the glitches are ironed out).

I'm still pretty sure we haven't seen the final FP plus. I'm guessing either onsite guests will get a fourth, or pay per FP for additionals is coming. I would love to see either.

To me FPP isn't anything like New Coke. People are still BUYING vacations to WDW. People are complaining about how busy it is even during off times (ironically these are often the same people saying FPP will cause people to stop coming to the parks...). People would have to actually stop going to WDWin significant numbers because of FP+ for FP+ to be like New Coke. I hope you are right about onsite bonuses and/or pay for more FP+, we've had great trips with FP+ and would welcome additional benefits/options!

I took full advantage of the old system too! So I'm in the same group as you. Yet, I don't feel as put off as everyone else. I think it's because the new system applies to everyone. So altho *I* will get fewer FPs, since everyone else will too, we're not really getting less than each other. We're all equal, and can still attempt to get on more rides by using other methods.

And, the system making more money for Disney makes me happy! I want Disney to be profitable. A profitable park reinvests in things like Fantasyland and Pandora. FP+ has already PROVEN to be increasing profit for Disney. Profit is mega-up, stock is mega-up, investors are stoked, and things look awesome for 2014.

This is such great news that is so much bigger than me not running for FPs. And, the "tangential benefits" of not having to split up, being able plan my day ahead of time, etc, all lead me to think I'll actually have a better time at the park, despite getting fewer FP tickets.

Yep, FP+ is still fair - it's just fair in a different way. There are many benefits to FP+, especially for planners. I don't know if I'd say I had a better time with FP+ but I certainly didn't notice any detrimental effects of FP+ either.