Disney has lost another family - do they care?

[Laketravis]

FP+ has already PROVEN to be increasing profit for Disney. Profit is mega-up, stock is mega-up, investors are stoked, and things look awesome for 2014.

Completely false.

Park profits have been attributed primarily to increased prices; MM and FP+ were referred to as a "drag on profits" in the conference call due to their high implementation costs.

Contributions to profit remain to be seen and the CEO refused to answer questions in regards to how much longer and higher those costs will go.

 

[TooExcitedCantSleep]

There is a difference between them telling you you can "lock in" experiences when you get there and them telling us directly they are locking US in to a Disney vacation. FP+ does not lock you in to a Disney vacation any more than the old FP system did. Disney (and any other smart business) is always going to use marketing ploys to get you to buy their product. Just because you can book FP windows ahead of time doesn't mean you are forced to go to Disney on any particular day or spend a particular amount of time there, which was the point I was originally arguing.



Again, I'm not sure if you're disagreeing with me or adding to my original point...FP+ (the "new system" as a PP pointed out) doesn't force you or lock you in to anything. For example. I have FP+ reservations at the MK for March 14th. I can change those up until that day. If we wake up that morning and decide we want to go to Epcot, we'll cancel those for the MK and book new ones for Epcot. If we want to cancel them altogether and go to IOA instead, we can do that. We still have as much freedom to choose as we always did.

wdwfreak!!!!! I fully agree with all of your points.........you're AWESOME!!!!!

 

[ethanwa]

I rarely post however I am lying in my bed here at Hilton (never before at 8pm) and I am sad to say this is it! My daughter is 4 and this is her fourth and last trip with me. It's been fun until now - can't stand having to plan around fast pass+ system. Don't waste money on park hopper anymore as by the time you get to another park, lines are far too lengthy and you can't get fast passes. Spontaneity is gone. I don't spend this kind of money to work so hard planning my day's route and strategy.

Short answer is no, they don't care.

 

[photo_chick]

I rarely post however I am lying in my bed here at Hilton (never before at 8pm) and I am sad to say this is it! My daughter is 4 and this is her fourth and last trip with me. It's been fun until now - can't stand having to plan around fast pass+ system. Don't waste money on park hopper anymore as by the time you get to another park, lines are far too lengthy and you can't get fast passes. Spontaneity is gone. I don't spend this kind of money to work so hard planning my day's route and strategy.

Other than the limitation of 3 per day, how does getting in park FP+ require more planning than getting paper FP did? I get the park hopping thing, but not the planning issue. With paper FP you came back at whatever time it said. With FP+ you choose from available return times.

And no, Disney does not care as long as they are making money. That's the nature of capitalism and the corporation.

 

[amg35]

In first post, op's complaint (part of) is that by the time they hopped to another park, fast passes were gone and lines were long.
I have another question though. Admittedly we never used fast pass like most people on this board (not because we didn't know how, but because we felt we didn't need to), we don't even go very often.

I guess my question is weren't the fast passes gone anyways when you would hop to a park later in the afternoon? I remember readings posts with the old system that the fast passes for the headliners were usually gone by early afternoon.

Earlier in this thread I did post why I think hopping will still work well for us.

 

[MrInfinity]

Another point, don't you think the average guest, that many have said couldn't figure out how to use the paper FP machines, will feel more locked in if they have FP+s pre-booked?

It's not that they "couldn't figure it out". The average guest is not stupid. The average guest can afford to vacation in Disney which by default suggests the average guest has earned enough surplus income to be able to afford this. So I would say Disney's "average guest" is quite smart and proven capable.

However, the average guest is not likely to come up with strategies like "designating a runner", "splitting up to go usurp FP-'s", or "track down which FP- is on-net vs off-net" while going on vacation to escape such diligence of everyday life.

In that same note, the same average guest IS likely to use the MDE app and pick FP+ times, because nowadays, that same average guest carries their phone with them everywhere they go.

Thus deep penetration of FP into their target market. FP- was optimal for the few who wanted to maximize it but did little for most. FP+ benefits so many more people.

 

[photo_chick]

I guess my question is weren't the fast passes gone anyways when you would hop to a park later in the afternoon? I remember readings posts with the old system that the fast passes for the headliners were usually gone by early afternoon.

That has been my experience in the past. Our first trip we totally missed FP's for a few things because we just didn't realize you had to get there before lunch to get them. The difference right now is that you can't get FP+'s in a second park at all, where as before you knew you'd at least get a paper FP for a non-headliner if you hopped.

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

It's not that they "couldn't figure it out". The average guest is not stupid. The average guest can afford to vacation in Disney which by default suggests the average guest has earned enough surplus income to be able to afford this. So I would say Disney's "average guest" is quite smart and proven capable.

However, the average guest is not likely to come up with strategies like "designating a runner", "splitting up to go usurp FP-'s", or "track down which FP- is on-net vs off-net" while going on vacation to escape such diligence of everyday life.

In that same note, the same average guest IS likely to use the MDE app and pick FP+ times, because nowadays, that same average guest carries their phone with them everywhere they go.

Thus deep penetration of FP into their target market. FP- was optimal for the few who wanted to maximize it but did little for most. FP+ benefits so many more people.

But the point I was making was asking if it wasn't hard to think that those guest in fact do feel more locked in when they have FP+s pre-book compared to arriving in town with no tickets at all.

And those of use "super-users" or "abusers" or whatever you would like to call us in fact have been told that we have been taking advantage of those guest that weren't in the know. So you assume that those guest could figure out how to get a paper FP but aren't smart enough to look at the ticket, see the time you can get another one, and see the benefit of getting another one as soon as they could? Really?

 

[amg35]

That has been my experience in the past. Our first trip we totally missed FP's for a few things because we just didn't realize you had to get there before lunch to get them. The difference right now is that you can't get FP+'s in a second park at all, where as before you knew you'd at least get a paper FP for a non-headliner if you hopped.

Thanks.

I guess we never found the lines to be too bad for the non-headliners in the afternoon. I don't think we waited more than 30 for most of those types of rides in the afternoon. Exception was Jungle Cruise. I do remember that line being ridiculous.

Disclaimer, I haven't been since June 2011, so that's the trip I'm basing my experience on.

 

[dragonfly57005]

I'm looking forward to trying FP+. I travel with a big family with lots of small kids. It never worked well to run from fp station to station to gather fp's and then return. Too chaotic. i'm nervous about having to decide where we are going to be a few weeks (or more) in advance. I think it will be our best guess and go from there.

 

[MrInfinity]

But the point I was making was asking if it wasn't hard to think that those guest in fact do feel more locked in when they have FP+s pre-book compared to arriving in town with no tickets at all.

Ok, I'll assert very few ppl buy plane tickets... but do not buy park tickets or have their resort picked out. You don't just buy airline tickets then show up at your destination and look for a hotel and park. They know where they're staying, for how long, and how many days they plan to hit each park, plus if they're going to SeaWorld, LEGOLAND, or Universal as well. Besides that basic level of planning, plus an ADR or two that you want to hit, there isn't much more that visitor HAS to do. His FP+'s will be waiting for him day-of, or he can be meticulous and tinker w them now if so desired.

And those of use "super-users" or "abusers" or whatever you would like to call us

Us... including myself... Note I don't exempt myself from being one as well!

in fact have been told that we have been taking advantage of those guest that weren't in the know.

It's not that you were taking advantage of them. You weren't trying to be mean to them. But they are profit $$ to Disney and so Disney wants to get them on rides. FP- did not do that well for most guests. (albeit, it did do that for you and me and some other dis'ers, we are the minority when compared to the other 16 million visitors that will hit the MK this year)

So you assume that those guest could figure out how to get a paper FP but aren't smart enough to look at the ticket, see the time you can get another one, and see the benefit of getting another one as soon as they could? Really?

Sure they can. But we all know you are downplaying it, and optimal fastpassing involved more than this... like splitting up to grab one asap, then running across the park to meet your family. The bulk of vacationers simply do not vacation this aggressive splitting / running / optimizing way.

I had no problem w the old system... it suited me well, we got lots of rides. But still I can look at the new system and see how I can make that work and enjoy the new benefits it will bring. I'm just saying to all the FP+ dislikers, to really approach this with a fresh perspective, find some good in it, cuz it is where Disney is going and will soon be the new norm.

Help each other to figure out new ways to optimize, not gripe about how you're never going to go again when we all know you will.

 

[Mkrop]

Fewer FPs used should result in faster throughput of the standby lines. Unless there are significantly more users using FP than before the standby lines should move faster except in locations where there were no FPs before and are now (like pirates). But the overall average ride times should fall at each park if we are actually using less FPs as a whole. October is not a good indicator because both systems were active at the same time.

I havent read the whole thread but why would you think Disney is going to issue less FPs

If WDW issued say 100(for easy numbers) Soarin FP- on any given day, arent they still going to issue 100 Soarin FP+s for that ride now. Even with tiering they are still going to issue a 100. It may be to 100 different people with tiering instead of being able to get multiple for the same ride, but it will still be a 100 people going through the FP+ line.

 

[clsteve]

Sure they can. But we all know you are downplaying it, and optimal fastpassing involved more than this... like splitting up to grab one asap, then running across the park to meet your family. The bulk of vacationers simply do not vacation this aggressive splitting / running / optimizing way.


Help each other to figure out new ways to optimize, not gripe about how you're never going to go again when we all know you will.

In the same way you seem to be overplaying it- hordes of people split from their families in full running gear, spending the day grabbing FP's? Seems like most who utilized the old system had a solid touring plan in place for the very reason of avoiding this scenario.

Now, a significant number of guests get to spend time in line at a kiosk (a line that didn't exist before)- not even knowing what FP's are available. That seems like a significant downgrade in experience, don't you think?

And before you say that's going to change (and I so do hope it will) please re-listen to the past earnings report where Rasulo had the perfect opportunity to say so but, instead, specifically stated that off-site has day of ability in the Parks.

To the second bolded, happily awaiting your input on this for the 50% who can't reserve in advance......

 

[Mkrop]

I understand what you are trying to say, but I must respectfully disagree. You can book FP+ the day of and get whatever you want. You don't HAVE to buy your tickets 60 days out. You're not being forced to do anything. People are going out of their way to decry a system that they don't like because they are used to the old one, even if their arguments against are incorrect or illogical.

This is not what we experience at all. We tried several times to change our TSMM FP+ before park opening, after park opening and about an hour or so after park opening. It was sold out for the day. There was no changing available.

 

[wdwfreak]

This is not what we experience at all. We tried several times to change our TSMM FP+ before park opening, after park opening and about an hour or so after park opening. It was sold out for the day. There was no changing available.

That was the case with the old FP system with that particular ride. They were all gone about an hour into the day.

 

[mesaboy2]

That was the case with the old FP system with that particular ride. They were all gone about an hour into the day.

Yes. And some are reporting it is also the case now. For an offsite guest, the improvement is...?

 

[luvthemouse71]

In regards to the OPs question, I would say they don't care. The people who don't like FP+ are obviously a minority if the crowd levels are any indication. You can't base the popularity of the new system on the DIS. There are just too many people who don't post here or who never have heard of this board.

There were plenty of crowds when I went in December, and it wasn't Christmas week either. When I went to book for April, many of the rooms were sold out.

The company is huge and there are still plenty of people who enjoy WDW. Families deciding to not come back aren't even a blip on their radar.

 

[wdwfreak]

Yes. And some are reporting it is also the case now. For an offsite guest, the improvement is...?

Do you think the system will be perfect and fair to everyone? I certainly don't, but what is? The old system wasn't perfect, either, as much the rose colored glasses set would like to have us believe. I liked the old system, too. But it's gone. So I'll adapt.

Here are your options as I see it:
Adapt.
Complain to Disney in the hope they will revert to the old system.
Don't go.

 

[magicbob]

If work put out a box of chocolates and said "Employees are entitled to take 1 Chocolate every 2 hours" and sure, some employees showed up every 2 hours, and grabbed a chocolate, while others, who don't like chocolate, or are on diets, or who just didn't feel like taking a chocolate, didn't. Are the employees who took a chocolate every 2 hours until they were gone "wrong" ... not in the slightest.

Seriously, your "examples", your logic, your entire attempt at solidifying your point of view are so poorly done. It's easy to deconstruct them and show how little reason they demonstrate.

Of course they were wrong. Even though the boss said you could take another one in 2 hours, you shouldn't have been so selfish. You took more at the expense of others. You shouldn't have taken more than your fair share. You should have left those chocolates just in case someone else decided 3 or 4 hours from now that they would like a chocolate.

Absolutely NOT true. In no way.

Though we have heard that MM and FP+ cost overruns have meant that all other development investment has been put on hold. Rather ironic that you would point to a fictional assessment to support a desired outcome that we know is actually the opposite of what is happening.

Hilarious kind of.

Completely false.

Park profits have been attributed primarily to increased prices; MM and FP+ were referred to as a "drag on profits" in the conference call due to their high implementation costs.

Contributions to profit remain to be seen and the CEO refused to answer questions in regards to how much longer and higher those costs will go.

Makes perfect sense if you're using fuzzy logic.

However, the average guest is not likely to come up with strategies like "designating a runner", "splitting up to go usurp FP-'s", or "track down which FP- is on-net vs off-net" while going on vacation to escape such diligence of everyday life.

Wow. This is one for the record books. We've been upgraded to FP USURPERS!

 

[MrInfinity]

In the same way you seem to be overplaying it- hordes of people split from their families in full running gear, spending the day grabbing FP's? Seems like most who utilized the old system had a solid touring plan in place for the very reason of avoiding this scenario.

That's not overplaying it, that's basically what you had to do to get the most out of FP-

Now, a significant number of guests get to spend time in line at a kiosk (a line that didn't exist before)- not even knowing what FP's are available. That seems like a significant downgrade in experience, don't you think?

If there are guests that cannot pre-pick FP+'s, then yes those ppl are disadvantaged. Resort guests can pre-pick. AP holders can pre-pick. So is it pretty much locals who will show up day-of, buy a ticket and go that can't pre-pick? Or off-siters buying tix thru a discount program like uctourist? That is going to be a very small fraction of the overall visitors.

And before you say that's going to change (and I so do hope it will)

I would hope the system would evolve to where all can pre-pick. But, honestly I wouldn't mind if the MB experience remained a resort-only perk. I stay in resorts. But to not look at what's best for me, I would hope Disney would leverage this in the way that would be most profitable to them as a corporation.

please re-listen to the past earnings report where Rasulo had the perfect opportunity to say so but, instead, specifically stated that off-site has day of ability in the Parks.

Are you a day-of type visitor? Just curious. I agree that's a downfall of the current system. I never said it is perfect. Just that one can / should try to find ways to make it work because it's not going away and saying you're never going to go to WDW again is just silly.

To the second bolded, happily awaiting your input on this for the 50% who can't reserve in advance......

What 50%? Are you asserting that 50% of WDW guests are non-resort, non-AP holders one-day passers? I can't agree there. I don't have the numbers, but I'd guess resort guests are about 70%, AP holders staying offsite are about 20%, off-siters buying day-passes via uctourist or other sites are about 5%, and local day-passers are about 5%.

And, I would bet 95% of WDW's profit comes from the 70% resort guests. This is why every park is now bundling with resorts to offer resort experiences and trying to not just be a day-park.