Disney has lost another family - do they care?

[MrInfinity]

It felt like we spent a lot of time in one park, wasting time, criss crossing the parks.

Exactly. To get the most out of the FP- system you really had to be proactive and tour in a not-very-family-vacation way. It involved a lot of running, a lot of splitting off from your family, and a lot of criss-crossing the park. That may be enjoyable to ppl who have come to know just how to work the system... but to most guests -- in fact most highly profitable guests -- that is not how they vacation.

Now there is so little criss-crossing. You can line your rides up in a perfect circle... circle the park once, then go spend money on other stuff.

 

[btk2333]

Exactly. To get the most out of the FP- system you really had to be proactive and tour in a not-very-family-vacation way. It involved a lot of running, a lot of splitting off from your family, and a lot of criss-crossing the park. That may be enjoyable to ppl who have come to know just how to work the system... but to most guests -- in fact most highly profitable guests -- that is not how they vacation.

Now there is so little criss-crossing. You can line your rides up in a perfect circle... circle the park once, then go spend money on other stuff.

This is why Touringplans found that actually with the new system, while you may spend a little more time in lines, because you don't have to criss cross the park, it's actually a wash in terms of lost/gained time.

 

[Spork24]

To me FPP isn't anything like New Coke. People are still BUYING vacations to WDW. People are complaining about how busy it is even during off times (ironically these are often the same people saying FPP will cause people to stop coming to the parks...). People would have to actually stop going to WDWin significant numbers because of FP+ for FP+ to be like New Coke. I hope you are right about onsite bonuses and/or pay for more FP+, we've had great trips with FP+ and would welcome additional benefits/options! Yep, FP+ is still fair - it's just fair in a different way. There are many benefits to FP+, especially for planners. I don't know if I'd say I had a better time with FP+ but I certainly didn't notice any detrimental effects of FP+ either.

Did you read the post I was replying to? It was a what if people really hated FP+ scenario, disney still wouldn't do anything. I wasn't suggesting FP+ Current state is like New Coke, just answering a hypothetical.

 

[Sparkly]

No offense, but all the I'M NEVER GOING TO DISNEY AGAIN WAAAAAA boards are getting a bit tiring. And yes, I know I don't have to read them. Maybe a sticky with free tissues and guidemaps for Universal and Disneyland?

 

[MrInfinity]

This is why Touringplans found that actually with the new system, while you may spend a little more time in lines, because you don't have to criss cross the park, it's actually a wash in terms of lost/gained time.

Yes I really like this aspect of things.

Not having to run (dang that run up the stairs into the Land Pavilion is exhausting, and then doubling back to MS/TT is killer in the heat!)...

Not having to split up.

Not having to wonder when I'll get FP-'s for, I know up front.

I think I'll get on close to just as much as I used to (yes slightly less) but in less time, and then have more free time.

Think about this one ppl...

I would be willing to bet that of all Dis'ers who have been to WDW 3 times or more in the last 10 years... and who are hating the thought of FP+ and have been posting out here about it... I BET 90% of them will be back to WDW w/in 2 years, and twice in the next 5 years!

Actions speak.

I bet I can't prove it. Yet you probly believe it's true.

 

[OldSpiceGuy]

Just like coke stuck with new coke when everyone hated it. They just learned to do more with less.... Wait, that didn't happen either. If significantly more people hated FP+ then Disney would definitely tweak the system to keep them coming back. But lots of us like it (or will once the glitches are ironed out).

I'm still pretty sure we haven't seen the final FP plus. I'm guessing either onsite guests will get a fourth, or pay per FP for additionals is coming. I would love to see either.

One of the things that has me scratching my head is the comparisons between FP+ and New Coke. That example really doesn't work in my opinion. Coke completely changed the formula of their product. The theme park equivalent of that change would have to be much more drastic than the new FP+ system. Speaking hypothetically of course, Disney would have to do something like retire all of their beloved characters like Mickey, Minnie, etc., and introduce all new ones.

FP+ represents a change but it isn't as significant as the New Coke shift. Thats why I think FP+ is here to stay. Everybody had something to say about New Coke. I could be wrong but I don't think 100% of the guests walking into the parks have something to say about FP+.

 

[Angel Ariel]

No offense, but all the I'M NEVER GOING TO DISNEY AGAIN WAAAAAA boards are getting a bit tiring. And yes, I know I don't have to read them. Maybe a sticky with free tissues and guidemaps for Universal and Disneyland?

As the mod who posted in the thread earlier said, these threads are just as relevant as the "just back, I love fp+" threads.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Exactly. To get the most out of the FP- system you really had to be proactive and tour in a not-very-family-vacation way. It involved a lot of running, a lot of splitting off from your family, and a lot of criss-crossing the park. That may be enjoyable to ppl who have come to know just how to work the system... but to most guests -- in fact most highly profitable guests -- that is not how they vacation.

Now there is so little criss-crossing. You can line your rides up in a perfect circle... circle the park once, then go spend money on other stuff.

You didn't have to "make the most" out of fp- to get more than what you get with fp+. We didn't do fp running..we toured in a very family friendly way. Part of our concern with fp+ is it being less family friendly for us.

Different touring styles work for different families. We will adapt to fp+, but I can understand why it is frustrating people into not wanting to go back. It's part of why we have stayed away since testing started in earnest.

 

[btk2333]

Did you read the post I was replying to? It was a what if people really hated FP+ scenario, disney still wouldn't do anything. I wasn't suggesting FP+ Current state is like New Coke, just answering a hypothetical.

I know you weren't- but it's been brought up before- I was trying to point out that there isn't a mass movement to stop booking WDW vacations due to FP+

 

[TinkerBelle_325]

Well, Disney thinks it does. They're even using that term in their new marketing strategy for FP+. Their CEO or CFO, whoever he is, has even made these statements. I'm not sure why you're saying this isn't part of Disney's plan when Disney execs themselves have made these statements.

ETA... Here's a link to one of their new commercials that I'm sure they'll eventually run. But you can find it all over the internet. About "locking it in".
http://thedisneyblog.com/2014/01/21...isney-world-part-3-the-marketing-push-begins/

That commercial isn't talking about "locking" guests into 1 park a day it even "locking in" guests to just Disney. It is saying that guests can guarantee themselves 3 rides per day that they have ticketd. They can "lock in" their favorite ride well in advance. And it explains that you can make changes on the fly as well. For the majority of families it would be inconceivable to guarantee your kids the ability to ride 3 of their favorite rides months before their vacation even begins. Remember, 50% of WDW guests never used FP- so they didn't realize you could ride splash mountain every day, multiple times a day, if you got paper fast passes.

I totally get that FP+ sucks for the way some guests toured. But of course Disney is going to sell the benefits to the general public. Those guests that got once in a lifetime or once every 5 years or even once a year in some cases, have no idea that you used to be able to get 8 FP- per day. This marketing isn't deceptive and it isn't trying to get guests only to visit WDW. It is simply selling the benefit of a new system. It might as well say "hey, universal won't guarantee you a ride on Harry Potter" because of course they are trying to keep the most of the market share. It doesn't say "don't go to universal" though.

 

[Spork24]

One of the things that has me scratching my head is the comparisons between FP+ and New Coke. That example really doesn't work in my opinion. Coke completely changed the formula of their product. The theme park equivalent of that change would have to be much more drastic than the new FP+ system. Speaking hypothetically of course, Disney would have to do something like retire all of their beloved characters like Mickey, Minnie, etc., and introduce all new ones. FP+ represents a change but it isn't as significant as the New Coke shift. Thats why I think FP+ is here to stay. Everybody had something to say about New Coke. I could be wrong but I don't think 100% of the guests walking into the parks have something to say about FP+.

Again, I was responding to a hypothetical. I love FP+ and feel disney had their guests in mind when making these changes. But if everyone hated FP+ to the extent of significantly reduced crowds (per the hypothetical) then FP+ Would be Disney's new coke. As it is it's nowhere ne'er new coke status.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[tarheelblue8853]

we didnt originally plan round FP either but the new system is now making the SB lines wayyy longer than they normally were so now its virtually impossible to get a ride with a SB of under one hour now as opposed to 20 mins norm for this time of year

This is something I don't quite understand. People are complaining about lines all over the place but if you think about it, the same number of people are riding the rides every hour. They didn't suddenly decrease capacity.

This whole issue has been really interesting to me so I've been watching the wait times and comparing them to the expected wait times on Josh's cheat sheets. And honestly every day you get maybe 1 ride that is much longer than expected (Rockin Roller Coaster yesterday for example was out of control apparently). But I'm not in the parks and maybe those really long ones are after a ride was just down. Long story short I don't think that wait times are that much longer than usual and certainly not as bad as people around here are making them sound.

 

[crostorfer]

Again, I'm not sure if you're disagreeing with me or adding to my original point...FP+ (the "new system" as a PP pointed out) doesn't force you or lock you in to anything. For example. I have FP+ reservations at the MK for March 14th. I can change those up until that day. If we wake up that morning and decide we want to go to Epcot, we'll cancel those for the MK and book new ones for Epcot. If we want to cancel them altogether and go to IOA instead, we can do that. We still have as much freedom to choose as we always did.

I'm disagreeing with you that the original point was not to attempt to "lock" people in. It very much is. It's what they, (Disney park executives), want most, and they have stated so numerous times. You can find multiple quotes, not only on this site, stating such.

I am, however, agreeing with you that it still is personal choice whether or not to conform to their desired model. Everyone has a choice, no one has to use FP+, or make ADR's, or stay on WDW property. The point I'm trying to make is that for the money that you spend, if you choose not to do any of those things, it will result in a much different experience, especially if those are things you have done in the past. Whether or not the experience is a good one or not is completely subjective.

As evidenced here on the multiple threads on this subject, people tour differently. Hey, that's ok, people want different things from their vacation experience. I've been as guilty as anyone else here when it comes to poo-pooing other people's opinions, and I probably owe at least one person an apology for doing so. No one should be downplaying anyone else's opinion, or calling them crazy, or telling them they are being ridiculous. What is ridiculous to one person is normal to another. People on both sides need to be more respectful, and quite frankly, just realize that discussing this at length is kind of pointless. No one here really cares if another family returns to WDW, or not. It makes no real difference to anyone else's vacation.

 

[Shaden]

And, the system making more money for Disney makes me happy! I want Disney to be profitable. A profitable park reinvests in things like Fantasyland and Pandora. FP+ has already PROVEN to be increasing profit for Disney. Profit is mega-up, stock is mega-up, investors are stoked, and things look awesome for 2014.
.

Absolutely NOT true. In no way.

Though we have heard that MM and FP+ cost overruns have meant that all other development investment has been put on hold. Rather ironic that you would point to a fictional assessment to support a desired outcome that we know is actually the opposite of what is happening.

Hilarious kind of.

 

[Angel Ariel]

For those debating about what the reason is for MM+, Disney has made it pretty clear that they see financial gains just in getting people to lock in their Disney time before they arrive.

Disney is looking to the power of planning to help keep people spending at Walt Disney World in Florida.

On its second-quarter earnings call with analysts, Walt Disney Co. executives explained the rationale behind the development of technology it's calling MyMagic+.
The technology combines a wristband embedded with a chip that acts as a room key, park ticket and optional payment account. By linking it to a website and mobile app, park guests can plan their meals and rides ahead of time. Disney began testing MyMagic+ in Florida in December.

Chief Financial Officer Jay Rasulo said that by getting guests to plan ahead, they're less likely to be enticed by other parks and tourist offerings when they set foot in Orlando, Fla., where the park is located.

CEO Bob Iger said MyMagic+ is set to roll out "at some point this year."

QUESTION: If you could talk about the timing of the rollout of MyMagic+. Is there any way to give us a sense of the potential impact from that initiative?

RESPONSE: (Rasulo) We have known for a really long time that getting our visitors to Walt Disney World to make decisions about where they spend their time before they leave home is a powerful driver of visits per guest. When they get into the Orlando market and their time isn't yet planned, they can be subject to everything you see down there, which is a lot of in-city marketing for all the many products that people have put there to basically bleed off the feed that we fundamentally motivate.

So if we can get people to plan their vacation before they leave home, we know that we get more time with them. We get a bigger share of their wallet. So that's one thing for you guys to think about. And the second thing is what happens to purchases when they become much more convenient, and you don't spend time queuing up for a transaction, queuing up to get in the park, and you actually have more time to enjoy the entertainment and, subsequently, spend more money doing things — other than standing in line, which, of course, you can't spend any money while you're doing that.

Source:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/call-disney-cfo-explains-mymagic-225441629.html

 

[AmyB2006]

There is a difference between them telling you you can "lock in" experiences when you get there and them telling us directly they are locking US in to a Disney vacation. FP+ does not lock you in to a Disney vacation any more than the old FP system did. Disney (and any other smart business) is always going to use marketing ploys to get you to buy their product. Just because you can book FP windows ahead of time doesn't mean you are forced to go to Disney on any particular day or spend a particular amount of time there, which was the point I was originally arguing.



Again, I'm not sure if you're disagreeing with me or adding to my original point...FP+ (the "new system" as a PP pointed out) doesn't force you or lock you in to anything. For example. I have FP+ reservations at the MK for March 14th. I can change those up until that day. If we wake up that morning and decide we want to go to Epcot, we'll cancel those for the MK and book new ones for Epcot. If we want to cancel them altogether and go to IOA instead, we can do that. We still have as much freedom to choose as we always did.

I think we're talking in circles. Of course nothing "forces" you. But if they can get you to plan everything ahead of time down to the time you'll be in the park at a certain ride, their chances are pretty good you won't choose to go somewhere else.

Of course anyone can change their mind and cancel but I think you're missing the overall point to argue that no one is being forced into something.

Again, Disney execs have stated multiple times their main goal with this, is to keep people on their property and not wander to Universal, Sea World, etc.

I'm pretty sure that's all she was trying to say back on page 1 or 2.

 

[AmyB2006]

For those debating about what the reason is for MM+, Disney has made it pretty clear that they see financial gains just in getting people to lock in their Disney time before they arrive.


Source:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/call-disney-cfo-explains-mymagic-225441629.html

Thank you!!! Lock it in! LOL

That commercial isn't talking about "locking" guests into 1 park a day it even "locking in" guests to just Disney. It is saying that guests can guarantee themselves 3 rides per day that they have ticketd. They can "lock in" their favorite ride well in advance. And it explains that you can make changes on the fly as well. For the majority of families it would be inconceivable to guarantee your kids the ability to ride 3 of their favorite rides months before their vacation even begins. Remember, 50% of WDW guests never used FP- so they didn't realize you could ride splash mountain every day, multiple times a day, if you got paper fast passes.

I understand the commercial thanks. I was pointing out that Disney themselves is using the phrase "lock it in" in their marketing strategy. I also never called it deceptive.

 

[disnut1149]

Unless you drop this FP "abuser" crap, I'm not going to take a single one of your posts seriously. I used FP within the "rules", and did so with Disney's blessing. It is not my problem that you chose to use it not as much, and I don't feel guilty one whit that I used it more. I took more than my "fair share" not because I could or because I deserved more, but because WDW said I could and I wanted to. I didn't need your approval to go on ahead with that plan thankyouverymuch.

For cryin' out loud.

This!! Couldn't agree more.

 

[crostorfer]

"So if we can get people to plan their vacation before they leave home, we know that we get more time with them. We get a bigger share of their wallet. So that's one thing for you guys to think about. And the second thing is what happens to purchases when they become much more convenient, and you don't spend time queuing up for a transaction, queuing up to get in the park, and you actually have more time to enjoy the entertainment and, subsequently, spend more money doing things — other than standing in line, which, of course, you can't spend any money while you're doing that."

This is the most important snippet of all of the FP+ conversation. It has nothing to do with fair. The word "fair" needs to be completely take out of all of these conversations. Bottom line: It's about your $$$$$. It's not about FP-monopolizers, or "abusers", or hoarders, or fairness, or about little Jimmy not being able to ride TSMM ever because the stand by was too long. It's all about your money.

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

For those debating about what the reason is for MM+, Disney has made it pretty clear that they see financial gains just in getting people to lock in their Disney time before they arrive.


Source:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/call-disney-cfo-explains-mymagic-225441629.html

I think we're talking in circles. Of course nothing "forces" you. But if they can get you to plan everything ahead of time down to the time you'll be in the park at a certain ride, their chances are pretty good you won't choose to go somewhere else.

Of course anyone can change their mind and cancel but I think you're missing the overall point to argue that no one is being forced into something.

Again, Disney execs have stated multiple times their main goal with this, is to keep people on their property and not wander to Universal, Sea World, etc.

I'm pretty sure that's all she was trying to say back on page 1 or 2.

Thank you!!! Lock it in! LOL



I understand the commercial thanks. I was pointing out that Disney themselves is using the phrase "lock it in" in their marketing strategy. I also never called it deceptive.

Thanks guys for saying it much better than I did. Talk about talking in circles. I don't believe I even implied that I thought Disney was locking guest in. Just that Disney is hoping that is what the new system is going to do. It remains to be seen if this is in fact is what happens. I don't think Disney is going to start running ads that say not to worry about pre-booking your FP+s because you can get anything you want to morning you walk into the park. What would be the use of them making this system and not wanting it to be used fully? Disney wants guest to plan months ahead for their Disney vacation and they are going to give the impression that it is needed to get the things you want....weather it is true or not.

Another point, don't you think the average guest, that many have said couldn't figure out how to use the paper FP machines, will feel more locked in if they have FP+s pre-booked?