Disappointed in The Timeshare Store

[JimMIA]

It would be helpful if someone from the Timeshare store would come back on and clarify this.

I think the governing law could be that of the state where the sale is taking place, not the location of the property, or where the closing is, or where the buyers and sellers are.

I checked the paperwork on my recent resale purchase of a Wyndham timeshare. The property is in Tennesee, the sellers were in Georgia, we're in Florida, but the sale actually occurred through a real estate broker in Washington state, and was closed in Washington state. I don't find any references to Florida, Georgia, or Tennesee law in those documents, and there was no recision period specified.

In OP's situation, the sale is occuring in Florida with The Timeshare Store. For that reason, I believe Florida law would be the most likely applicable law, regardless of where the deed is eventually recorded.

We're all just guessing here and I could well be wrong, but that's my guess.

 

[Dean]

It would be helpful if someone from the Timeshare store would come back on and clarify this.

I think the governing law could be that of the state where the sale is taking place, not the location of the property, or where the closing is, or where the buyers and sellers are.

I checked the paperwork on my recent resale purchase of a Wyndham timeshare. The property is in Tennesee, the sellers were in Georgia, we're in Florida, but the sale actually occurred through a real estate broker in Washington state, and was closed in Washington state. I don't find any references to Florida, Georgia, or Tennesee law in those documents, and there was no recision period specified.

In OP's situation, the sale is occuring in Florida with The Timeshare Store. For that reason, I believe Florida law would be the most likely applicable law, regardless of where the deed is eventually recorded.

We're all just guessing here and I could well be wrong, but that's my guess.

Reading through Statue 721 for 2010, I see no language that would require application of this section to resales from another state, quite the contrary, it appears moot on the subject which would mean it would not apply. There is language pertaining to sales by a developer for another state with common management which would not apply in this case. It is clear that SC law would apply just like FL law does for FL DVC options. The only question is whether both would, and whether they would then apply to resales. My scan of SC Timeshare law suggests it would not apply to resales and my scan of FL Timeshare law suggests it would not apply to resales of another state. The only issue would be whether there are additional real estate laws that would apply. Given this is their business, I would expect any broker in FL selling non FL timeshares to clearly know the answer to all of those questions.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Thanks for the info Dean. I am hoping TSS comes back and posts the answers to your questions.

Reading through Statue 721 for 2010, I see no language that would require application of this section to resales from another state, quite the contrary, it appears moot on the subject which would mean it would not apply. There is language pertaining to sales by a developer for another state with common management which would not apply in this case. It is clear that SC law would apply just like FL law does for FL DVC options. The only question is whether both would, and whether they would then apply to resales. My scan of SC Timeshare law suggests it would not apply to resales and my scan of FL Timeshare law suggests it would not apply to resales of another state. The only issue would be whether there are additional real estate laws that would apply. Given this is their business, I would expect any broker in FL selling non FL timeshares to clearly know the answer to all of those questions.

 

[Brian Noble]

One could argue they could have & ? should have used a different contract that would reflect SC requirements.

Possibly so. But, they didn't in the version the OP signed.

 

[Sanchez]

This is the definition of "Seller" in SC:

27-32-10 (6) "Seller" means a person who creates a vacation time sharing plan or is in the business of selling interests in a vacation time share plan, or employs agents to do the same, or a person who succeeds to the interest of a seller by sale, lease, assignment, mortgage, or other transfer; except that, the term includes only a person who offers interests in vacation time sharing plans in the State of South Carolina in the ordinary course of business. The term "seller" does not include the following:

(a) an owner of a time sharing interest who has acquired the time sharing interest for his own use and occupancy and who later offers it for resale on his own behalf or through a real estate broker;

(b) a managing entity or owners' association of a time sharing plan, not otherwise a seller, that offers on the association's behalf time sharing interests in the time sharing plan transferred to the association through foreclosure, deed in lieu of foreclosure, or gratuitous transfer; or

(c) a person who owns or is conveyed, assigned, or transferred time sharing interests, and who subsequently conveys, assigns, or transfers all acquired time sharing interests to a single purchaser in a single transaction, which transaction may occur in stages.

It appears that the five day waiting period would not apply in this situation. Perhaps a "one size fits all" contract is being used - not a good idea.

 

[Sanchez]

Just to clarify, it appears that "Sellers" (as defined above) must comply with the following:

§ 27-32-40. Furnishing copy of contract to purchaser; terms thereof


(A) It is a violation of this chapter for the seller of a vacation time sharing plan to fail to utilize and furnish the purchaser a fully completed copy of a contract pertaining to the sale at the time of its execution. The contract must include the:

(1) actual date the contract is executed by all parties;

(2) name and address of the seller;

(3) total financial obligation of the purchaser, including the initial purchase price and additional charges to which the purchaser may be subject;

(4) specific term of the contract; and

(5)(a) following statement in immediate proximity to the space reserved in the contract for the signature of the purchaser and in bold type:

"YOU MAY CANCEL THIS CONTRACT WITHOUT PENALTY OR OBLIGATION WITHIN FIVE DAYS AFTER THE DATE YOU SIGN THIS CONTRACT, NOT INCLUDING SUNDAY IF THAT IS THE FIFTH DAY, OR THE DATE YOU RECEIVE THE DISCLOSURE STATEMENT PURSUANT TO Section 27-32-100, WHICHEVER OCCURS LATER. IF YOU DECIDE TO CANCEL, YOU MUST NOTIFY THE SELLER IN WRITING OF YOUR INTENT TO CANCEL BY SENDING NOTICE BY CERTIFIED MAIL, RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED, OR BY ANOTHER VERIFIABLE MEANS, TO (NAME OF SELLER) AT (SELLER'S ADDRESS)."

 

[Dean]

Possibly so. But, they didn't in the version the OP signed.

Correct, as I stated, it appears that the contract gave the buyer additional benefits not provided under any state law. Thus that would have been a disservice to the seller based on the usage of a generic contract aimed at FL law.

The other component I don't think anyone else has posted, and I was purposefully delaying doing so, is that there are specific requirements for cancelation that appear not to have been followed in this case. IF FL law were applicable the buyer must follow specific guidelines to cancel in writing and delivered to the seller, not the broker. If FL law is not applicable, which is the way it appears to me, then it would fall back to what's in the contract but if this is not spelled out I'd think the same requirements under FL law would apply.

 

[Jerry@dvcstore]

The Timeshare Store,Inc.® abides by Florida Real Estate Laws. Any contracts resold regardless of the resort location will follow Florida Real Estate Laws.
All timeshare contracts sold though a Florida Broker whether Developer or Resale have a 10 day cancelation period from the date the buyer signs purchase agreement.

The 10 day Cancelation Clause is on the Contact that both Buyer and Seller sign and it is IN CAPITAL LETTERS.

 

[Sanchez]

Are the brokers licensed in SC?

 

[JimMIA]

The Timeshare Store,Inc.® abides by Florida Real Estate Laws. Any contracts resold regardless of the resort location will follow Florida Real Estate Laws.
All timeshare contracts sold though a Florida Broker whether Developer or Resale have a 10 day cancelation period from the date the buyer signs purchase agreement.

Thanks for clearing that up, Jerry. We were all just guessing.

 

[DebbieB]

The Timeshare Store,Inc.® abides by Florida Real Estate Laws. Any contracts resold regardless of the resort location will follow Florida Real Estate Laws.
All timeshare contracts sold though a Florida Broker whether Developer or Resale have a 10 day cancelation period from the date the buyer signs purchase agreement.

Are the sellers informed of this? Was the OP informed or did they overlook it?

 

[Mic]

As a former Realtor that absolutely HATED working as a dual agent, I have a certain amount of sympathy for anyone that is in that position. I have purchased resale through the Timeshare Store and one other agency that is occassionally mentioned on these boards. To be honest, the other agency was a lot more communicative, and updated me on the progress of my offer and purchase. The Timeshare Store did not notify me that my offer had passed ROFR, and did not send the paperwork out to me or the seller until I called and inquired. That was not a big issue for me, as everything else went smoothly. I can understand the OP being upset about the buyer backing out, but they did have the right to do so. Because The Timeshare Store is still making their commission on another contract the buyer is purchasing, they really have no incentive to work harder for the OP/Seller. That's not the fault of The Timeshare Store, that is just the way the system works. If the seller is still within the first 10 days of listing, he/she could pull the contract and list elsewhere with no penalty. However, another agency would be bound by the same laws and the same situation could occur again. I remember reading the 10-day rule when I purchased, and I understood it. Sometimes people read without fully understanding what the real-life scenario could be. Agents, especially dual agents, should make sure everything is fully explained. It's not required, but it should be "how we do business".

 

[JimMIA]

Are the sellers informed of this? Was the OP informed or did they overlook it?

The buyers and sellers sign the same contract. The notification of the 10-day recision period is there in ALL CAPS, and that disclosure is directly above the Seller's signature.

 

[lilpooh108]

As a former Realtor that absolutely HATED working as a dual agent, I have a certain amount of sympathy for anyone that is in that position. I have purchased resale through the Timeshare Store and one other agency that is occassionally mentioned on these boards. To be honest, the other agency was a lot more communicative, and updated me on the progress of my offer and purchase. The Timeshare Store did not notify me that my offer had passed ROFR, and did not send the paperwork out to me or the seller until I called and inquired. That was not a big issue for me, as everything else went smoothly. I can understand the OP being upset about the buyer backing out, but they did have the right to do so. Because The Timeshare Store is still making their commission on another contract the buyer is purchasing, they really have no incentive to work harder for the OP/Seller. That's not the fault of The Timeshare Store, that is just the way the system works. If the seller is still within the first 10 days of listing, he/she could pull the contract and list elsewhere with no penalty. However, another agency would be bound by the same laws and the same situation could occur again. I remember reading the 10-day rule when I purchased, and I understood it. Sometimes people read without fully understanding what the real-life scenario could be. Agents, especially dual agents, should make sure everything is fully explained. It's not required, but it should be "how we do business".

I agree with this post. We bought 2 resale contracts, one through TSS and another through another resale agent. TSS was not as communicative, did not email us when we passed ROFR (escrow company told us 2 days after we already passed ROFR when we received closing docs), did not get the fully executed contract to us until we emailed and inquired for it, and emailed us regarding closing a full 2 days after the escrow company already informed us that we had closed.

Had this been our first contract going from being non-DVC to DVC members (so we would have been more excited, more anxious, etc), I would have been really annoyed. Since this was our third contract (2nd resale), I did not care that much. But I can see how someone else might have been annoyed.

That being said, and because of their good reputation on the boards, I was never once worried that they'd abscond with our money or anything.

 

[Dean]

The Timeshare Store,Inc.® abides by Florida Real Estate Laws. Any contracts resold regardless of the resort location will follow Florida Real Estate Laws.
All timeshare contracts sold though a Florida Broker whether Developer or Resale have a 10 day cancelation period from the date the buyer signs purchase agreement.

The 10 day Cancelation Clause is on the Contact that both Buyer and Seller sign and it is IN CAPITAL LETTERS.

That it's in the contract and that it's applicable in this case isn't in dispute. What is in question is whether FL timeshare laws apply to contracts sold through a FL broker but for a non FL timeshare. It appears clear that the Timeshare Statues in 721 do not, do you have other references or data to the contrary?

 

[JimMIA]

As a former Realtor that absolutely HATED working as a dual agent, I have a certain amount of sympathy for anyone that is in that position.

...Because The Timeshare Store is still making their commission on another contract the buyer is purchasing, they really have no incentive to work harder for the OP/Seller.

I'm not sure where you worked, but all of the DVC resale brokers work as "transaction brokers," which apparently is a different legal and ethical system than you worked in.

A transaction broker in Florida represents both the seller and buyer. They facilitate the transaction -- they don't "sell," and they should not "work harder" for one party over the other. If they did, they'd be unethical at a minimum, and probably in violation of the law.

In the position of a transaction broker, if either party says they don't want to go through with a sale, what would you suggest the broker ethically do? Try to talk them out of their decision?!?

That's exactly what you are suggesting TTS failed to do, because they expected to earn a commission on a subsequent sale. That's nonsense -- they have no assurance that a buyer who backed out of one sale will go through with the next.

You are saying TTS passed on the opportunity to act unethically in favor of a seller who didn't read what they signed...and that TTS was somehow wrong.

That's silly. OP is responsible for their own mistake.

 

[JimMIA]

That it's in the contract and that it's applicable in this case isn't in dispute.

I agree with you, Dean. And the conclusion that leads me to is that this whole thread is nonsensical.

Nobody did anything wrong. OP didn't know what they were doing, and ran into one of the negative possibilities that is present in every contractural transaction of whatever type -- the possibility that one party may change their mind.

If that happens, and it's permitted by the contract...you "man up" and move on. Or, you come to the DIS and ...

 

[bumbershoot]

So if someone commits to buy and puts down earnest money, and then at 11 days they back out...aren't there *other* penalties? If I'd backed out at 11 days after we bought into DVC, there would have been penalties...is the ONLY penalty just losing the earnest money with resale?

I am having a hard time understanding in layman's language just what the earnest money is for, if there are 10 days to back out with no penalty, and then, from what my brain can come up with, at 11 days you'd OWN that property and would have to sell it on your own.

Help? In normal simple words?

 

[vicki_c]

So if someone commits to buy and puts down earnest money, and then at 11 days they back out...aren't there *other* penalties? If I'd backed out at 11 days after we bought into DVC, there would have been penalties...is the ONLY penalty just losing the earnest money with resale?

I am having a hard time understanding in layman's language just what the earnest money is for, if there are 10 days to back out with no penalty, and then, from what my brain can come up with, at 11 days you'd OWN that property and would have to sell it on your own.

Help? In normal simple words?

What other penalties would you have with DVC for cancelling after the allowable period? Losing your earnest money is the only one I can think of.

At 11 days you don't own the property - I'm not sure what that comment means. The deal isn't closed at 11 days, the deal isn't closed until the closing.

 

[Dean]

I agree with you, Dean. And the conclusion that leads me to is that this whole thread is nonsensical.

Nobody did anything wrong. OP didn't know what they were doing, and ran into one of the negative possibilities that is present in every contractural transaction of whatever type -- the possibility that one party may change their mind.

If that happens, and it's permitted by the contract...you "man up" and move on. Or, you come to the DIS and ...

I'm not quite with you for 2 reasons. First, it does raise the larger question of what the legal requirements are going forward for anyone buying or selling non FL options that might see this thread. And if it's true that FL timeshare laws do not apply directly to non FL timeshare resales, as it is appearing to me despite Jerry's suggestions otherwise, the use of the standard contract caused potential harm to the seller in question. I realize it was in the contract and that it was signed by the seller, that's actually beside the point looking at the underlying question. I see no indication that it would apply to brokers but not to private sales unless there is a separate broker component outside 718 & 721, 721 certainly doesn't make a distinction in this area where SC law does seem to deal only with developers and is moot on the subject of resales from an individual.

So if someone commits to buy and puts down earnest money, and then at 11 days they back out...aren't there *other* penalties? If I'd backed out at 11 days after we bought into DVC, there would have been penalties...is the ONLY penalty just losing the earnest money with resale?

I am having a hard time understanding in layman's language just what the earnest money is for, if there are 10 days to back out with no penalty, and then, from what my brain can come up with, at 11 days you'd OWN that property and would have to sell it on your own.

Help? In normal simple words?

Technically they could legally force you to complete the sale or purchase plus any legal fees to do so. Realistically it's just the ernest money on a resale but that's definitely not the case on a developer purchase.