{Debate} Pro-Choice Catholics Told to Confess
- Thread starter Lachesis00
- Start date
So you pretty much have a problem with all religions? I asked awhile ago what churches were OK with abortion and someone mentioned a Protestant church that leaves it up to the individual. I wasn't asking a rhetorical question. I want to know-- what churches besides the Catholic Church have come out against abortion? I'm just churious.
BTW, I wouldn't call priests that don't designate places in hell for me "hypocrites". I call them wonderful God loving people who are who want to guide and teach, not judge and spew hatefulness.
1. you really need to work on reading comprehension.
2. I never said that the priest who disagree with you are reserving a place in hell for you. I said that if there is a god, the HE is holding a special place in hell for you, and those like you, who commit murder on, and advocate the murder of innocent babies. I said the priests who do not hold hold their communities to the tenets of the religion, and allow for people to publicly go against said tenets without holding them accountable are hypocrites. They are more worried about keeping members than holding them to the doctrine of the church (situational ethics).
3. I do not have a problem with any religion except the fanaticals of those religions. I am not religious, although I was raised RC. I believe religions are great for those who find peace & meaning in them. I do not.
4. Most churches are opposed to abortion.
5. "I wouldn't call priests that don't designate places in hell for me "hypocrites". I call them wonderful God loving people who are who want to guide and teach, not judge and spew hatefulness. " You'd be wrong. It is far more hateful to support the murder of innocents than to call what they support murder. You are judging all the time. Does that make you "hateful"? It means that I think critically. I do find it curious that calling you to task for your beliefs is considered hatred by you. I do not hate you. I find your thought process disturbing, but there is no hate.
No, I really don't. I understood perfectly what you've been trying to say. And I don't want to fight with you. I just completely disagree with you. I don't know who God's saving places in Hell for and neither do you. Yes, I know you didn't personally go down there and pick out my place among the burning masses, but you believe it's there. You really don't know anything about me except I don't vote for Republicans. I do that for lots of reasons, and that's what the NYTimes article talked about -- the church not wanting to judge people who may want to vote for other reasons and that they don't want to make the church political.
Most churches are against abortion? Which ones? What do they say about it? What do they say about their followers that have them? Or just endorse the right to have them? Again, I just want to know.
The Mystery Machine
Sunrise at my house. :+)
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This is starting to get interesting!
There will be no special place in "hell" as deemed by God for those of us that vote with a politician that is pro-choice. Why?
God in his infinite wisdom knows that Roe V Wade will not be overturned and that the pressure to vote with only a pro-life politician is just a "ruse" to vote Republican.
There will be no special place in "hell" as deemed by God for those of us that vote with a politician that is pro-choice. Why?
God in his infinite wisdom knows that Roe V Wade will not be overturned and that the pressure to vote with only a pro-life politician is just a "ruse" to vote Republican.
Originally posted by The Mystery Machine
This is starting to get interesting!
There will be no special place in "hell" as deemed by God for those of us that vote with a politician that is pro-choice. Why?
Why? Do you want one?
. I thought the NYTimes article was pretty interesting and it didn't seem to refer to that.
TiggersPal
<font color=teal>I am an adventurer<br><font color
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Sorry Aunt Polly - but I'd have to say you "do" need reading comprehension... because I read that post and didn't walk away with anything like you did. Sorry, but that's how I see it.
calling it the way I read it.
calling it the way I read it.
yes, you really do need to work on reading comprehension, and I have not been "trying" to say anything. I have been saying it clearly. You have been "trying" to understand it with less than acceptable results.
Once again, I do not know if there is a hell (if you read thoroughly, you would see that I said that earlier). But I do believe that if there is one, pro-abortionists will be there. I do believe in evil. You see it is a position of evil to promote the murder of innocent children. If hell will contain evil, then I am putting forth the position that pro-abortionists will end up there. Religion is not based in fact. I do not have any facts to support the idea of hell. Therefore, I do not know if there is one. I am not a man of faith. So I cannot claim a belief in that which can not be proven.
I am not an activist. I have never been to a rally, & I never will go. I do know right and wrong, and when someone promeote a wrong point of ciew on a public bulletin board, I will disagree.
Here is a webstie that speaks to the idea of what churches are for, against, & neutral on abortion (but, if you are neutral, you are really pro-abortion).
http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_hist1.htm
Here is a quote from the site:
"There are approximately 1,000 conservative faith groups in North America who take a pro-life stand and oppose abortion access. Among the largest are: African Methodist Episcopal Church
Assemblies of God
Church of God in Christ
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons)
Church of the Nazarene
Eastern Orthodox churches
Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod.
Progressive National Baptist Convention
Salvation Army
The Southern Baptist Convention,
And a few hundred others. . .
The Roman Catholic church believes that all abortions are a form of murder, no matter what the situation or conditions leading up to the pregnancy."
Also, the NY Times has a very obvious agenda. They will promote it by writing allegedly "subjective" articles that promote a particulare view.
Originally posted by The Mystery Machine
This is starting to get interesting!
There will be no special place in "hell" as deemed by God for those of us that vote with a politician that is pro-choice. Why?
God in his infinite wisdom knows that Roe V Wade will not be overturned and that the pressure to vote with only a pro-life politician is just a "ruse" to vote Republican.
wow. deep.
So we're just being designated places in "theoretical hell". Don't worry. I get you!
I'd still be curious about the churches you listed and how they deal with abortionists, people who have had them, and people who are pro-choice. If anyone wants to tell me about their church, I'd appreciate it.
wdwdvcdad I'm sorry. You brought up the "special places in hell" and I was just pointing out that most of the church isn't talking that way. I'm sorry - I was just having a little fun with you. Whatever you say you meant, I'll take you at your word.
The article, however, appears accurate to me.
The article, however, appears accurate to me.
Sorry, when you become a priest you agree to abide by the church's teachings. You are meant to shepheard other people to do the same. You can treat those who are struggling with the church's teachings with compassion. But for a priest to be publicly for something that their church condemns is just wrong. Especially something so core as abortion.Yes they should be compassionate to you. But they can't look at you and say abortion is ok. Religion and faith are not forced on anybody in this country. You are even free to form your own church that supports abortion.
I'm not talking about priests saying abortions are OK!! I'm talking about them denying communion to people who vote for John Kerry (and the likes of him.) Did you read the article I posted. Most priests are not in favor of denying people because of their political parties and I'm just glad of that.
I can't see priests being able to obtain their parishioners voting records and then having folks line up, communion, no communion.
But if you take a public stand for abortion, then it's not an issue you struggle with or are repentent about. Therefore you are violationg church rules and they could deny communion.
But if you take a public stand for abortion, then it's not an issue you struggle with or are repentent about. Therefore you are violationg church rules and they could deny communion.
I think the point being that in the Catholic church, it doesn't particularly matter what most priests are or are not in favor of. It's not a democracy. If the Catholic church adopts a policy of denying communion to left-handed Italian boys with green eyes, that's the policy and all are expected to adhere to it.
Tiggeroo, as far as voting is concerned, I think you've got it right. One can vote for a politician who is pro-choice as long as you're not voting for that politician based on his/her pro-choice stand. Not all choices are good. Especially in politics
Of course I read the article. But the sections you highlight are not the only text in the article. Not sure why the attitude.
Beyond that, I've had enough religion for now... I'll leave it to the rest of you to debate.
princesstommi
Once upon a time...
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Random thoughts on this issue:
- I am Catholic
- I do not believe that following all the rules of a man made church is my one path to Heaven.
- I worship in a way that brings me comfort and that I feel brings me closer to God
- I don't necissarily agree with all the *rules* and laws of the United States, but it doesn't make me any less of an American...same thing for me with the church.
- I truly have a huge problem with the Church if across the board they are trying to play with politics. If they are so outspoken about this, allowing people to have choices and free will, you know, like God did, but aren't speaking out against the other candidate for his pro-death penalty and war policies...I have a problem.
- It is my responsibility to reconcile my personal feelings about the Church doctrines I may or may not agree with. No one else, especially non-Catholics with opinions against the church, has any bearing on what I feel about my association with the Catholic church. But I'm secure in my faith, and in my politics. If they are *wrong*, I'm the only one who will have to answer for them in the end.
- I am Catholic
- I do not believe that following all the rules of a man made church is my one path to Heaven.
- I worship in a way that brings me comfort and that I feel brings me closer to God
- I don't necissarily agree with all the *rules* and laws of the United States, but it doesn't make me any less of an American...same thing for me with the church.
- I truly have a huge problem with the Church if across the board they are trying to play with politics. If they are so outspoken about this, allowing people to have choices and free will, you know, like God did, but aren't speaking out against the other candidate for his pro-death penalty and war policies...I have a problem.
- It is my responsibility to reconcile my personal feelings about the Church doctrines I may or may not agree with. No one else, especially non-Catholics with opinions against the church, has any bearing on what I feel about my association with the Catholic church. But I'm secure in my faith, and in my politics. If they are *wrong*, I'm the only one who will have to answer for them in the end.
Sorry, everyone kept responding like they hadn't read it. You said earlier that if the church adopts a policy we have to abide by it, and it's very clear that no such churchwide policy has been adopted. THe reasons are good ones. The church should not be getting caught up in this political battle, and there may be other reasons besides the abortion issue that one might choose a candidate for. This is what the task force said, and I'm glad for it.
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