DEBATE: Disney Monorails. Magical - Yes. But Effective?

[crusader]

All I can say is that you are too quick to discount the intangible benefits of the Monorail. Novel or not, people like it. They like the views from the elevated track, they like seeing it whiz by, and they like going through the CR. If Monorail expansion is done with these things in mind, it will continue to have appeal. (That does NOT mean I am discounting any other alternative form of transportation)

Your right - there is a novelty about the Disney monorail that transcends time. Its mere vision to an arriving guest holds an intrinsic value that can only be surpassed by the sight of Cinderella's Castle. Two Disney Icons worth their weight in gold.

But to expand or not? There is always room for expansion - at least connect the Studios and make parkhopping more of a pleasure. How many times does a guest board the monorail to ride it between the Magic Kingdom and Epcot? This change will not diminish the appeal at all.

The simple fact is that it can't be all of one thing. It requires a mix for different traffic patterns and goals. So, I agree that a bus only option would be bad as would a monorail only option.

In the end though, where is the biggest demand for this within WDW?

Until it becomes a real capacity issue there does not appear to be any demand for this.

 

[hopemax]

It seems for real, I just found that site today so I'm no SkyTran expert, but from what I've picked up today.

Smaller cars are chosen because the average car in the US carries 1.15 people. Think about all the people who are driving to and from work everyday and all the other things that you do by yourself. This system is meant to get those people off the roads.

The designers do mention larger cars can be added. But that does increase the construction costs, and there's no point in paying for something that the majority of users aren't going to use. Especially when this guy is just trying to get the system off the ground. He needs to present a system that is as cheap as possible. New technology scares a lot of people, especially the accountants who haven't taken their engineering classes.

WDW is different than the average city. If a study concluded that the average party at WDW was 3.3 people, I'm sure that the conclusion would be a 4 person car makes financial sense. But they aren't designing this system for a theme park (not that it can't be adapted to serve one).

Good quote for some of our discussions...

Very few users need or want to go exactly where other users are going, when they are going there. Users want to go where and when they wish or need to. Automobile usage patterns are a clear, gigantic, long-term, multi-decade, unarguable, incontrovertible existence proof of this behavior. As much as engineers, transport planners, environmentalists, or anyone else may wish for more sensible, rational users, our opinions are irrelevant and useless. Users are as they are. We must accept this, or live in denial, or worse, in a fantasy world, and see our solutions ignored by users. This happens a lot. Pragmatism wins. Idealism looses. SkyTran is about being pragmatic.

 

[manning]

If walt was here, he would more than likely build it. Eisner wouldn't. No guts or vision.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

If Walt was here, he would more than likely build it. Eisner wouldn't. No guts or vision.

I disagree!! It has nothing to do with guts and/or vision (although you are right; he has neither). It has to do with priorities. And ultimate goals.

Walt's priority and goal was to create cutting edge, magical, alternative "experiences' for his guests.

Ei$ner's priority and goal is to make money!

And that is the difference!

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Okay... phew... what a read... I'm going to make a generalized reply, and then possibly go back and identify more specific replies.

First off, for those who either don't know me, or don't know my background... My name is Tyler, and I've worked for Disney Transport for the past 2.5 years. I pretty much hang out on the Transportation board only, so that's why I'm a lil late with this discussion.

At any rate, I've worked both in Monorail and Bus operations, and am well versed on the ins and outs of our Mass Transportation System. In addition to all this, I am also going to school, to eventually go into the Transportation Systems Planning & Design field. Although I do not have my degree yet, and am not an engineer, I do posess a lot of real world knowledge about Disney's current transportation system. One advantage that I have... I am there EVERY DAY... I see the backstage happenings. I see how things work. I see what y'all don't see. And in case you haven't noticed, I have a very strong passion for what I do.

In regards to what guests want... They really don't care about the Monorail. Then what do they want? Quick, fast, efficient transportation from Point A to Point B. No stops, no connections, no transfers. No fuss, no muss. They'd PREFER it to be via monorail, however, throw in a transfer for the Monorail, and the majority of guests would prefer to take the faster, and direct bus. I cannot tell you how many people complained to me about the transfer at the TTC to get to Epcot. "Can't we take a direct bus?" was a common question. In reality, the actual transfer process is a very confusing thing for many people. You really would be surprised. And I'm not talking about foreigners who don't speak English... I'm talking about your average Joe and Jane Smith.

Any ideal transportation system for Disney should include ZERO transfers for major locations. The time it takes to get from resort to theme park (and reverse) should be no longer than 20 minutes travel time. As it stands now... to go from Grand Floridian to Epcot via monorail can take almost 25-30 minutes, depending on the status of the beams. There is no bus route that exceeds much more than 20 minutes ride time. The Epcot Resorts with AK comes close... and perhaps with DTD it might run up to 23 minutes... but it's within reason. At night during the peak rush, they split Boardwalk, so that alleviates that problem there.

A few folks mentioned what we call Environmentality. Disney actually has experimented with alternative fuel busses. However, at this time, Fuel Cell and CNG bus technology is NOT very reliable. It's extremely expensive, and breaks down frequently. Especially in the Florida climate with the abuse that daily service at Disney would inflict.

In reality... today's Diesel engine is 80% cleaner burning than one of just a few years ago. In fact, they are just as clean burning as a Compressed Natural Gas powered bus. Not to mention, they're cheaper, more fuel efficient, and pretty much all heavy duty diesel engines are rock solid reliable.

Disney currently has 265 busses in guest service. The 71 new busses that we have received all use cleaner burning ultra low sulfer diesel fuel, and have low emission engines. 11 of our older busses also have low emission engines. The rest of our busses have older engines in them, but we are in the process of replacing them with low-emission versions. Very few of our busses "spew black smoke" as some folks say.

Back to Monorails... they do require an enormous amount of energy to power those trains. Those buss bars hold 600 volts of DC power, and each train can draw in excess of 1700 amps at any given moment. Although you may not see it, I'd imagine there might be some smog at the power plant used to generate that power.

Going back to Monorail Expansion... let's now focus on COST. A lot of folks blame the cheapness on Eisner. Well, let's examine this here from a business perspective, since WDW is a business.

Cost per mile: $98m-$107m per mile. This number is not exaggerated, but rather the actual cost per mile for the new Las Vegas monorail which uses the same exact beamways as Disney.

Cost per train: $25m. (The cost for a Bombardier MVI four-car train is $17m. Disney uses 6 cars. At an estimated $4m per extra car, $25m is a safe estimate.)

Plus... don't forget switch beams, an extra maintenance shop area, and stations. Now, as you can see, this is getting pretty expensive, very quickly. And don't forget, Monorails are NON-REVENUE GENERATING... So, where is all this money going to come from? The resorts it services.

So what resort is it going to service? The All-Stars are the busiest... however, they also have the cheapest rooms. No money there. What about Caribbean Beach? But then... why pay $300/night for a Monorail Resort when you can have one for $100/night.

Now we have to think about Logistics. Let's not forget these resorts were not designed to handle monorail beams and stations. If the Monorail goes to Caribbean Beach... how many stops? The bus makes seven stops, so that folks don't need to walk far. Realistically speaking, the Monorail would really only be able to make one, maybe two stops within the resort. That means LONG walks. Plus, where does it go? Will people have to transfer?

Now, lets say it hypothetically did make all seven stops... Hypothetically of course, just to prove a point. What if the train fills up at the 4th stop? What happens to the rest? They have to wait for the next train. Which also fills up. And the next one as well. After all, it is the morning rush. Dont think that will happen? Take a look at the Grand Floridian. I should know, I used to work that monorail station as my bidline. Seats fill up at the Contemporary, standing room fills up at Polynesian... and my guests had to try and squeeze on. Most of the time, they had to wait for the second train...

THAT is the problem with a fixed guideway system.

Disney is VERY UNIQUE with our guest traffic flow, which is why the bus system does work so well. It's very flexible. If a bus fills up, the next bus starts where the previous left off. It's that easy.

Having worked in Bus Operations... I can tell you, our system is gosh darned efficient. We move mass amounts of people in relatively short amounts of time. We run at 97-100% efficiency, which is pretty decent considering how many dispatches we do. Not perfect, but VERY close on the grand scale. A monorail cannot come close to what our busses do. (In fact, we often times supplement the Express monorail)


So, lets look back. Spending $500m - $1b on a system that would cause headaches, delays, and more problems... and will never fully recover the money associated with it. (For those of you in Boston... sounds like the Big Dig, eh? lol) Does it really make sense now?

Anyhoo... I need to get some sleep. I will write more when I am more coherant.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Originally posted by thedscoop
That is not necessarily true if Disney would think outside the box and use several of the now very well-powered electric, hybrid, or alternative fuel busses.

Once the technology becomes rock solid... then perhaps. However, right now, it's not reliable. It's prone to failures and breakdowns.

Originally posted by thedscoop
An hybrid double-decker well-themed bus with an open-air second deck would be every bit as magical to me (if not more) for traveling throughout WDW than a monorail.

That's actually not possible... If you look at an alternate fuel bus, you'll notice some big things on the roof... essentially, fuel tanks. A necessary evil. Ugly things. And yet, the thing would still need to be refueled at least two to three times per day.

As for a double deck... wouldn't clear a lot of clearances. And open air? Umm... don't forget how often it rains down here.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Originally posted by raidermatt
Yes, there are things to learn from a city's transportation system, but again, WDW has other factors at play.

Actually... they've come to us... trying to figure out how we move so many people so efficiently.

Originally posted by raidermatt
One final thought for now, though...I don't think its really fair to say that at least some Monorail expansion would not be efficient. My understanding is that Disney has indeed worked out some expansion plans, and likely would have implemented them were it not for a reluctance to come up with the up-front capital.

Yes, the up front capital is enormous... but perhaps the reason it has not come to be was they realized... "Hey... this really won't work."

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Chip 'n Dale Express

Thank you!!

I can't wait for part two!!

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Originally posted by Another Voice
Monorails are by far the most efficient means of transporting guests on property. Any kind of rail system – heavy, light, monorail or subway – works best when moving large volumes of people between areas of high concentration on a predictable schedule: something like an urban rush hour or several theme parks. Busses, even slightly cheesy touristy open air kinds, work best on low demand, low density areas because they can uses existing roadways where cars still car the bulk of the traffic. These areas could have included moving people between resorts, within resorts, or from resorts to centralized stations.

I beg to differ. Monorails are NOT the most efficient means of transporting guests on Disney property. Why? Because they are FIXED GUIDEWAY systems. No flexibility. Busses have the flexibility to expand and contract. To go to points A, B, C, D AND E. And Directly. No transfers.

Originally posted by Another Voice
All of these issues are well known within the company and there have been several attempts over the years to correct the situation. Some came very, very close to being built. But restoring the transportation system on property doesn't produce big enough dollars in an on a simple spreadhseet enough for a certain executive. It's far easier to make the guests deal with the problem ("please allow one hour to travel to your destination") then it is to create a real solution.

Hrmm... Spend ONE BILLION DOLLARS on a monorail expansion that will cause headaches, extra lines, and increased travel time. That's a lot of money, with no return. I don't care if this IS Disney... it's still a business, and any good business man knows that it would be a foolish decision to spend that kind of money on something that wouldn't accomplish what it was set out to do.

Originally posted by Another Voice
The whole "Magic on Demand" fiasco was an attempt to reduce the size of the fleet, not expand it.

Once again, I beg to differ. Magic On Demand was created to maximize efficiency, while decreasing guest wait times. We are now able to respond faster to Signal 72's (Full bus), and take care of our guests. MOD = Better Service, same amount of buses.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Originally posted by manning
If walt was here, he would more than likely build it. Eisner wouldn't. No guts or vision.

It's not about guts or vision. It's about weighing the cost and effect. Believe it or not, Walt Disney World is a BUSINESS... and in order for it to stay in business, people need to make financially sound business decisions. Expanding the monorail would not be financially wise for the company. And remember... just because the monorail looks cool, doesnt mean that it will solve the so-called transportation problems. In reality... it'd cause a whole ton more.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

One more post, and then Im going to bed! lol


Someone mentioned PRT... Unfortunetly, although it's a novel concept... it would not work on the grand scale of WDW. Our capacity needs are too high. The system would just not be able to handle the morning rush, or a park exit.

 

[crusader]

Chip-N-Dale -

thank you. Very well articulated and informative.

Do you know if there is more of a reason why the planning doesn't include linking the Studios to the monorial system besides money?

 

[d-r]

I've seen another page somewhere with the same sort of idea as skytran, individual cars that loop off the main beam to pick up and drop off at individual stations, but that used three seat cars. The idea being, if you had 1-3 people you could use the same car, if you had four you could put two in each of two cars, and so on from there. So there is never an odd man out. I prefer that idea.

Basically, you walk up to the station and push a button for the station that you want to go to, a car swings out and picks you up and takes you there directly. The other page I saw (I don't remember where anymore, sorry), had an emergency button so that if someone jumped in the car with you at the last moment it went straight to the police station.

I get what chip and dale express is saying about the flow; it is hard for me to think about what this sort of system would be like with a park emptying out, but I don't think it would work very well.

I think I would like to see some sort of compromise between the current system, and some sort of light rail options to hubs. I'd try to connect each resort to a hub. I'd leave the existing monorail alone. I'd add in a steam train from WL and Ft.W to the TTC and through Ft.W. I'd add in a street car through Port Orleans/ Dixie Landings. I'd center things around hubs, and the hubs connect directly. Maybe use something like the skytran for all stars, coronado, carribean beach, okw (because they have parking lots all around them where the skytran things could go). A boat from animal kingdom lodge to animal kingdom park. A monorail hub at all the parks, water parks, downtown disney. I'd try to figure out a way that you could get from any resort to any park in one transfer, resort to hub, hub to hub. Then from any resort to any other resort in two transfers, resort to hub, hub to hub, hub to resort. I don't think that would be "worse" than the bus system. I guess it could be worse though. Right now, to go from AK to any park you take a direct bus. This way, you'd have to wait for a boat to AK, then a monorail to the park hub. So it would be worse in a way. To go from AKL to any other resort, you just take the first bus to any park, then the bus or transport from that park to the resort (well, you'd be smart; if you want to go to the polly you'd go to MK from AKL then to polly; if you wanted to go to Yacht Club you'd go to MGM and catch the boat, but you wouldn't go to epcot because you'd have to walk all the way across it). If the parks are closed when you are going back you either go to downtown disney if you want to go to pleasure island or just take a cab. I think the resort-hub-resort would probably be better than that. I would not want a hub right at AKL because it would mess with the theming; same thing for WL, PO, etc. I totally understand what chip and dale express is saying about guests wanting to get directly from A to B without a transfer. So I guess it wouldn't work. I think a few transportation improvements though, like my wilderness train and AKL boat, would be really cool and nice!

Honestly, though, just a personal opinion, I don't think people do enough planning for just eating somewhere around where they are staying - "I'm going from the all stars to eat at Trail's End, what's the best way?" Well, the best way is to just spend the night at fort wilderness!! The way people like to go from resort to resort to eat is the part of the plan where the transportation system really breaks down the most, and I don't know if they really anticipated that people would do it as much as they do. I like to eat near where I'm staying. If I stay at AKL, I'll eat at Boma and Jiko. I'm staying at BWV I'd rather have breakfast at spoodles than Boma, if I'm at the polly I'll be happy at Kona, or if I'm at wlv I'll just go to whispering canyon, you know what I mean? I like eating at epcot restaurants or epcot resorts when I stay in the epcot area, and around the monrail loop when I stay in the magic kingdom area. It feels GREAT to come back to the resort and not have a big hastle about getting somewhere to eat because it is right there or right next door. I like just the natural flow. I would rather split a trip in half and stay 1/2 in the epcot area and eat over there, and 1/2 in the magic kingdom area and eat over there. People think it is a hassle to move, but I think it is easier than transporting! Or take two smaller trips, one at MK area, and the other one at epcot area, and eat close to home both times. Also people don't do enough common sense planning about where they will be and where they will eat. Eat at downtown disney when I go to pleasure island, etc. If I'm at AKL and I want some tonga toast I'll go to Kona on the way to MK. "I'm staying at all stars and want to eat at Trail's End, what's the best way?" Well, get up that morning and take the bus to the magic kingdom, spend the next several hours there and when you are hungry take the boat to ft. wilderness. This is why people want cars, but most of the time I'm happy not to need a car - a very few times we've had a car but most of the time we don't. But that's just me I guess.

 

[airlarry!]

M. Express:

I enjoyed reading your posts and the insiders look.

Not to quibble, but the run from the All-Stars to the MK is not 20 minutes. It is longer, more in the 30 minute range. I haven't been since 2002, but have the really changed out all of the black smoke busses? If they have changed out the fleet since '02, more power to them. I'm not sure I believe that.

I understand your points about the efficacy of using monorails to move all the people, all the time, everywhere across the resort.

I agree.

But that's not the issue. No offense to your job or your avocation, but many people think buses in their present form at WDW are ugly, boring, smelly and non-magical. So the issue for them is, how can I effectively move (not necessarily efficiently mind you) but effectively move people to places that need more people in a more magical way.

One solution is the Disney Seas bus line. It's got that futuristic look that alleviates the boring, non-magical. But it's still smelly, I assume. (If you don't think so, take this little exercise. Stand by the back bus entrance when it is full and you have to wait on the next one. When it takes off, draw a deep full breath into your lungs. Enjoy!)

I believe M. D-R hit the nail on the head. EVERY park needs some form of 'magical' transportation, be it safari vehicles from AKL to AK. Most every resort should have them too.

Someone mentioned what a good businessman would do. He would invest in monorail or skytran or some other form of 'magical' transportation, and make it go somewhere that could make money. It's kinda simple. There's no charge for the monorail, but the hidden charge is that it goes to a park with a ticket. You've got DTD just sitting there, waiting for lots of customers on some days, and no really efficient way to get there.

Don't believe me? Try taking a bus from PO to DTD and back one day....I did it one time, and I'll never do it again.

 

[crusader]

Someone mentioned what a good businessman would do. He would invest in monorail or skytran or some other form of 'magical' transportation, and make it go somewhere that could make money.

Without turning transportation into an enterprise in and of itself there is no way to invest wisely in this type of endeavor. The system at WDW is operated as pure overhead. How would this billion dollar improvement generate any new business and recoup the financing?

 

[Miss Park Avenue]

Where does Disney recoup the cost of enhanced "free transportation?" By enticing more people to stay onsite.

The monorail, with all it's problems, provided an enjoyable ride to the parks, the boats do too. It's the ride you get before you even hit the parks! The busses fill a need, no doubt, but with so many, one may ask, "Why stay onsite and be at the mercy of the busses when you can stay offsite and drive in your own comfy car?" Getting to the parks used to be part of the fun, now it's a chore. That is why, (in my humble opinion), onsite rooms are not filled.

OK, after reading the original post, I dreamed this up:

1. move the TTC to a more central location and revamp the monorail system (or something more innovative) into a sort of giant figure 8 throughout. Connect the four parks and DTD. The new TTC would have two levels and if you wanted to get off to switch trains you could, or just stay on and enjoy the scenic route.

2. Put a peoplemover around DTD. Maybe a peoplemover around the boardwalk area too. I think we learned that anything can be themed well enough to not mar the beauty around transportation,(look at the monorail station at GF.) The train at WL and FW is great and I thought a train at AKL would be great too. Or something quieter that wouldn't freak out the animals. These and other innovative, fun, magical, forms of transportation could take guests to monorail stops. (face it, every resort can't have a monorail stop)

3. Make the new TTC a destination in itself with shops and characters and restaurants (think of the $$$$ that might generate). The old TTC is an eyesore on a premium piece of land, which brings me to number 4....

4. Add a deluxe resort on the old TTC property (DVC poly villas???)

A redone monorail system CAN generate money if you think outside the box. The enhanced guest experience would mean more onsite guests. It would make getting to the parks more enjoyable than sitting in traffic. THE KEY IS to keep it innovative, "ahead of it's time". Something new to explore and enjoy. Something that provides a view of all the fun coming to us. Something that will get us excited to arrive at the parks and a have stress free trip back to the resorts. Make the offsite guests wonder what they are missing while sitting in thier cars.

BTW, I absolutely LOVE the sky tran idea. Still would have to have some kinks taken out before it could be implemented in WDW, but it's new, high tech, very Disney. Definitely worth a look.

 

[BRERALEX]

Tyler those were great posts, thank you.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Peak times……………………

There has been a lot of talk about peak vs. non peak times and how the monorail would be most efficient during the morning and evening peak ridership. I’m not so sure about that. Think of the volume of people traveling on the busses at those times. Next, think about the MK resort monorail during those same times.

Think……………………..think……………………………….think some more…………………………

OK, if there were one central monorail line that connected all the parks, or even an Epcot area hub where other lines transferred, you will have more people riding the monorail than the system would be able to handle. On the MK resort monorail during those peak times you have only 3 resorts and one park, yet it is standing room only, pack ‘em in like sardines conditions. Now imagine people from more than a dozen resorts, going to every park, riding a single monorail line. The crowding would be incredible, and it wouldn’t be for a short trip either. I’m sure the magic of the monorail would wear off pretty quick during these trips. Add more trains you say. That probably isn’t practical given the cost of those trains and the fact that they’d be empty most of the rest of the day. The busses provide very direct, targeted routes and keep all the guests from having to tax the same exact route. As such, I believe it is much more efficient than resort wide monorails would be. Maybe the monorail would be more magical than the busses, but would they? That brings us to………………..

Magical monorails…………………..

As I stated before, I do think that the monorails as they exist are magical. They are unique and novel. They are efficient and effective in their service of the limited MK resort area. The one line most people see is not unpleasing to the eye. However, while there is a novelty the MK and Epcot monorails, what about once they become commonplace throughout WDW? They may not seem so novel any longer, and perhaps a little bit of the magic would be lost. Also, while the existing monorails might not be ugly, if there was a beam in sight everywhere you looked it might not be so attractive – but I do think that would be a minor issue. Then you have the efficiency issue. Yes, people might not mind spending a few minutes longer to get where they are going if it is via a pleasant monorail ride. But how much longer are they willing to spend? Then, if that time is standing in a packed monorail for an extended period is the ride likely to be all that pleasant? I don’t think many people want a packed NYC subway like experience during their WDW vacation. Maybe the busses give that kind of experience now, but crowded busses isn’t the argument I hear most, usually the knock is on the length of the trip.

Speaking of subways…………………

Baron, I spoke of subways as a means of transportation for WDW and stated that, in our hypothetical world, they would be a better solution than a monorail. If you bothered to pay attention, I also pointed out that they would not be feasible.

In the end, I have to agree with Tyler. While a monorail might seem like a magical concept, when you lay it all out and try to figure out a way to make it work it just isn’t that practical a solution. That, as much as anything, is why any monorail plans that might have existed went nowhere.

I have to say, BaronRaider, as much as many of the things Scoop and I say might drive you crazy, your tired bit about $$$$$ being the reason for EVERYTHING (from CR observation decks to monorails that never were) is putting me to sleep . You guys are just way too green for me (jade is green, right?)

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Originally posted by airlarry!
Not to quibble, but the run from the All-Stars to the MK is not 20 minutes. It is longer, more in the 30 minute range.

Um, no. All-Stars to Magic Kingdom is 13-14 minutes. A round trip MK to AS Movies to MK again is approx 30 mins. But the one way guest trip is only 13-14 minutes.

Originally posted by airlarry!
I haven't been since 2002, but have the really changed out all of the black smoke busses? If they have changed out the fleet since '02, more power to them. I'm not sure I believe that.

Many of our busses have recieved new engines. Others have been re-tuned and/or rebuilt by Detroit Diesel. Our widebody RTS's used to be real bad. They're the ones with top exhausts, and are 102" wide versus the regular 96" wide. When you'd step on the accelerator, black smoke would come spewing out of the top exhaust. No longer. Out of the 35 we have, we have maybe 3 or 4 left to work on.

But the main problem lies with the 6v92TA engine... it just isn't as clean burning as we would like after 2 years of service. So, we're now starting to replace them with Series 50 engines. Low emissions, better fuel economy, more torque, and they're just cooler engines, I think. 4805-4814 have had the S50 engine since we bought them in 1994... 4795-4804 will be getting the upgrade as a test to see how well they do. So far 4801 was the first... a few minor problems, but so far so good.

 

[Another Voice]

Mr. Express –

Thank you for joining our motley little crew over here. I very much appreciate your information and your opinion. Like you I am not an engineer, but I don't intend on ever becoming one. I do, however, have my own "unique" experience with WDW's transportation issues.

"Because they are FIXED GUIDEWAY systems. No flexibility. Busses have the flexibility to expand and contract"

The flexibility offered by busses is that you can change their routes on a whim (provided the road is already built). That's great when the concentrations of loads vary from location to location or when you've got a far-flung city and need to be able to accommodate summer routes to the beach. Yet in WDW's case, it is extremely unlikely that a theme park is going to pick-up and move across town. There will never be a need to change a monorail route because suddenly the demand just isn't there anymore.

The other claimed flexibility to busses is the "flexibility" in capacity. All that means is you can add more busses on the same route. Provided you have the busses and the drivers. A monorail train has a capacity many times that of a bus, adding a single additional train, if even needed because of the initial higher capacity, is the equivenet of adding five or more busses. The cost of having five busses arriving at the same place at the same time is tremendously higher. Better yet, a single monorail train can be in service all day with its higher capacity – overflow busses sit doing nothing except wasting their capital investment.


"Spend ONE BILLION DOLLARS on a monorail expansion that will cause headaches, extra lines, and increased travel time."

Well, isn't preventing all those headaches why you hire traffic engineers in the first place? The assumption that any new system would be just like the old one (point-to-point) only bigger is absolutely wrong. If you read my "rumor", you'll see the main line would allow travel between all of the parks without any transfers at all. Even modern day Disney can adapt and learn.

As for the costs – do you have any idea how much revenue is lot by having thousands of guests strung out on curbs waiting for busses all day? Increased spending, additional spending opportunities from giving guests the freedom to move about and increased resort occupancy would pay for the expansion – er, according to "rumors". The plan was killed because Eisner thought he could get a better return for the capital elsewhere, like investing in plane leases for United Airlines. The question about WDW's need for a system and the financial justification for it have never been an issue. It's always been a corporate political matter – 90% ego and 10% greed. Added into the mix are all the various groups within WDW fighting for their budget (Mr. Express, are you going to tell us 'railers and Bussers get along fine with each other?) add to the mix with just a touch of General Motors tossed in for good measure. It makes an interesting stew.

The guests complaints received from people complaining transferring at the TTC are dwarfed by those people who waited a hour for a bus, got stranded at Downtown Disney, or who's poor grandmother was forced to stand on a lurching buss from Point A to Point X.

You're right, WDW is a business. But it's more – it's a resort. People go their to have a good time, to enjoy themselves, to escape the mundane realities of normal, everyday life. Tramping about on a bad suburban bus system is not what people are expecting. Internal studies are "rumored" to show that both the Wilderness and Animal Kingdom Lodges are a significant disadvantage because people hate the busses. A resort has to provide a compelling environment that people want to pay money to see. You can't do that by screeching about the economics of a bus system they hate.

As for 'Magic on Demand' and reducing the number of busses and drivers…how'd you think they'd justified all that software development?

The simple fact of the matter is that retrofitting any transportation system – whether rail or busses – into an already established environment is costly and full of problems. It would have been far better to build the expansion and it's transportation net at the same time (as with EPCOT Center). But now, there are no "good" solutions any more, simply "less bad" ones.