DEBATE: Disney Monorails. Magical - Yes. But Effective?

Perhaps dedicated bus lanes/roads could be built to get the buses separated from congestion.
I have to say, in all my years of driving around WDW I have never seen a major problem with respect to congestion.
 
Originally posted by DisneyKidds
I have to say, in all my years of driving around WDW I have never seen a major problem with respect to congestion.

During busy times, there are slight slowdowns... but us drivers know where to avoid and when. We always have alternate routes to take. However, dedicated BRT lanes would really be a nice thing... :)
 
It is important to note that although this system is influenced by guest demand, it is not driven solely by demand. Busses are dispatched at regular intervals by the Field X Dispatcher, and depending on demand, are instructed to go different routes. If there is an increased demand in a particular area, the dispatcher will increase frequency, or possibly send two busses at once.

I am assuming you do not simply rely on historical data to determine guest preferences. Since resort capacity is one variable how is that factored into the scheduling? Also, where is the dispatch coming from?

Thanks again for this.
 
Originally posted by crusader
I am assuming you do not simply rely on historical data to determine guest preferences. Since resort capacity is one variable how is that factored into the scheduling? Also, where is the dispatch coming from?

Thanks again for this.

Dispatches are generated by the tablet pc, based on a template set up for the day. The template is based on expected guest traffic flow. Of course since it's just an estimate, and guests have a tendancy to go against the wind at times, the dispatcher does have the ability to either change the template, or dispatch additional busses to meet the need.
 


Despite Tyler's well documented experience as a Disney bus driver, and his imminent engineering degree, we don't have anything CLOSE to the information needed to make this call.

Absolutely, but we debate this issue anyway. I agree there is always room for something more. The suggestions here sound promising but are too far down on the priority list to warrant any real attention from the Co.
 
Great info, Tyler, very interesting. Thanks!

Its sounds like the dispatch decision is completely automated when in Flex Dispatch mode. Is that true?

MoD sounds like it might be more of a judgement decision on the part of a dispatcher...is that true?

In other words, how much, if any, human judgement is required in each system. Does it mostly consist of just inputting the bus arrivals, or is this automated as well? (Sorry if I missed any of this)

Just curious...Thanks.
 
Originally posted by raidermatt
Its sounds like the dispatch decision is completely automated when in Flex Dispatch mode. Is that true?
For the most part... Dispatches go on schedule as the computer says... However, there are often times when the order might be flipped around, or a special run is given. But if all goes well, the Dispatcher doesn't usually need to have much say in what goes on. They're just there to make sure everything is going on schedule. If a bus encounters a Signal 72 (full bus) or if one goes out of service, they are there to be able to work around the situation.

Originally posted by raidermatt
MoD sounds like it might be more of a judgement decision on the part of a dispatcher...is that true?
Indeed... the dispatcher does have more judgement calls to make, and has more of a hand in what goes on than with flex.
 


M. Tyler:

I have really enjoyed getting the depth of info from your posts. Sorry I'm so late in responding, but I'm diving into the latest Robert Crais novel and trying to keep up with these fantastic multiple new threads.

I admit, it may not have been the all-star run that was 35 minutes to the MK. Perhaps it was my last trip at CBR in 2000. Problem with CBR (and same for others, but obiously not for all-stars) is that there are multiple stops, depending upon where you catch the bus. From getting on, to getting off at the MK, was about 35 minutes (if memory serves, but of course it has been three years...)

It is a quibble, I know.

What is more important is the underlying issue:

Is the bus system as presently situated the best that Disney can offer? I would remind those of you who argue that other modes of transportation are too expensive...I'll be you a dollar to a donut that your predecessors on the Disney board made the same argument to Walt when he proposed a separate TTC with monorail access. IT MADE NO ECONOMIC SENSE TO DO THIS. It was just good show, and heightened the excitement of the visitor. (BTW: It still does this today for me, even after all these years).

M. Tyler, as much as your expertise has helped us understand the bus routing system, it does not answer this question. There seems to be two sides.

My feet are firmly entrenched in the side that says two things:

1. Buses, in the present configuration, are inherently un-Walt-like, and should be limited to as-needed-only.

2. Don't derail changes based on the present configuration of the parks and property development. An argument that the present configuration of parks on the property lends itself away from adding monorail/skytran/lightrail/waterway/safari vehicle/etc. transportation is barking at the wrong person. Blame the guy who masterminded the development of the resort ('cause he's the true culprit), but fix the problem as best as you can with what you got.

Ask yourself. What would Walt do? Walt is probably spinning in his cryochamber right now watching the buses whiz by.

And finally, a billion dollar investment in magical transportation WILL pay for itself by increasing resort occupancy, increasing shoping and eating dollars, and increasing attendance. I know there are some spreadsheets in Burbank that already allude to this. It really doesn't take Dave the Rocket Scientist to figure out that improvements to infrastructure increase days, density, and dollars.
 
Originally posted by airlarry!
I admit, it may not have been the all-star run that was 35 minutes to the MK. Perhaps it was my last trip at CBR in 2000. Problem with CBR (and same for others, but obiously not for all-stars) is that there are multiple stops, depending upon where you catch the bus. From getting on, to getting off at the MK, was about 35 minutes (if memory serves, but of course it has been three years...)

The round trip cycle from MK to CBR, all the way through, and back to MK is rated at 34 minutes. Most drivers can do it in 30 flat. Even with 7 stops... it's not a long internal run. However, I can understand how it may feel like 35 mins.

Originally posted by airlarry!
Is the bus system as presently situated the best that Disney can offer?
At this current moment, yes. For the future? Who knows what lies ahead. Personally, I would like to see a BRT/Tramway system be put into place... dedicated traffic-free lanes, like a fixed guideway system, but with the flexibility of a bus. And best of all, it can be done without transfers. Will it happen? Well... I can dream. :)
 
And finally, a billion dollar investment in magical transportation WILL pay for itself by increasing resort occupancy, increasing shoping and eating dollars, and increasing attendance. I know there are some spreadsheets in Burbank that already allude to this. It really doesn't take Dave the Rocket Scientist to figure out that improvements to infrastructure increase days, density, and dollars.

Improvements to infrastructure may increase attendance. Billion dollar Magical Improvements to transportation paying for itself this way? I don't think so. I don't believe the reason someone today would say they won't go to WDW has anything to do with the transportation system or that the monorial/or some other new innovative transportation system would be instrumental in getting them to book a trip.

Spreadsheets are great - I am sure they showed record figures for alot of ventures that tanked.
 
A busway for Downtown Disney.

From Marketplace bus station going south the busway begins and rises to third story level to allow truck and pedestrian access to various points in between, then descends to second story level at Pleasure Island. The major pedestrian entrance here dips about 10 feet below grade to go under the busway. (Such a walkway is sometimes called a vomitory and hopefully vagrants won't get nauseous or incontinent in it late at night). Ramps from ground to the Pleasure Island bus station here then don't have to be so long. From Pleasure Island the busway rises again to third story level for truck and mid block pedestrian access underneath, then descends to ground level at West Side.

Variation: Busway descends only to second story level at West Side, then rises and extends out over Buena Vista drive westbound, descending to ground level and ending somewhat beyond, where traffic is lighter.

Such a project can also include parking garages, although no extra bus stops for parking lot patrons.

This probably won't be considered until attractions at West Side are added and fill up all the space to the existing West Side bus station.

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm
 
I can't believe that Disney has shunned the need for one of these for so long ;). At least it would give all the people who are so unhappy with the system a place to make a deposit.
worry.gif
 
Billion dollar Magical Improvements to transportation paying for itself this way? I don't think so.
So even the current Monorail should not have been built, given its percentage of the original cost of the resort, and the much more limited funding constraints faced by Disney at the time?

Spreadsheets are great - I am sure they showed record figures for alot of ventures that tanked.
You've identified the exact reason new forms of mass transit are not being seriously considered. It's impossible to prove the corellation between upgraded transportation and resort revenue on a spreadsheet.

Therefore, the easy answer is to pretend it doesn't exist. Then, one can simply say "It costs too much, and doesn't generate any revenue".

As Larry pointed out, same thing Walt and his successors were told about the original WDW Monorail and its layout.

Its the same thinking that cancelled EE. EE does not directly generate any revenue, so let's get rid of it.

Oops.

Guess the "revenue generation" cell on that EE spreadsheet should have read something other than zero after all.

Even then, it took the "guest satisfaction" equivalent of hitting Disney in the face with a sledgehammer to get them to realize it.
 
It won't show up on any spreadsheet, but from personal experience and from talking to people from this area who visit, it is just too inconvenient to use the bus system to get from the resorts outside the area over to DTD.

Try going from PO to DTD one Saturday night, and see how long it takes...
 
Originally posted by airlarry!
Try going from PO to DTD one Saturday night, and see how long it takes...

Try parking there Saturday night! The extra couple minutes you might wait for the bus, rather than just hopping in your car, usually is more than made up for in looking for a spot to park, at least when I've been there.
 
:( After all of these convoluted posts, {and i admit, I did not read them all,} The only thing I wonder is if the monorail cars could be somehow re-configured to get more folks on a car? It seems like maybe turning the seats to some different angle might allow more room in each car.:cool:
 
Originally posted by mitros
:( After all of these convoluted posts, {and i admit, I did not read them all,} The only thing I wonder is if the monorail cars could be somehow re-configured to get more folks on a car? It seems like maybe turning the seats to some different angle might allow more room in each car.:cool:

They already did that... it's called "More Standing Room." Basically, the Mark IV design had twice as many bench seats as the Mark VI design, but no room for folks to stand. When designing the new Mark VI trains to stricter transit standards, they introduced standing room, at the expense of seats. As they are now probably provides the best ratio of seats to capacity that you're going to find.
 
It isn't the waiting for the bus to DTD that's unreal, it's the actual time it takes for that bus to get there. We can drive, and take a while to find a spot and still beat the bus! We never take the bus to DTD or to the water parks.
 
:D Thanks! We can always rely on you for good disney info!;)
 

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