Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[mustinjourney]

If he secures it with a new owner, and then goes under, There is a good chance the owner will cut their losses and you will be out the reservation,

If you take the voucher, IMO, I’d opt for a reservation not booked on points, but through Disney directly. The chances there are greater,

how would this work? Wouldn't David just have to pay for the first night's stay to secure a hotel room, with the balance being due at check-in? If so, could the person get stuck holding the bag? I'd be shocked if disney is going to care what is going on with David's and the renter.

 

[Fred M]

im sorry. But you have admitted you have zero legal training.

Even if you were a law student I would tell you to be careful bc there are rules about unauthorized practice of law. Researching on Wikipedia is not legal research.

you keep talking about how you’re not giving legal advice, yet you keep making opinions where you declare what is or isn’t legal.

The topic at hand is very complex. You have international laws, contract disputes, timeshare laws, state laws, choice of venue, choice of law, collections, escrow laws, General contract interpretations, etc. just to name a few issues.

This is not something an armchair lawyer that reads a few wiki articles should be pontificating on what is and isn’t legal OR guesstimating how a court would rule.

I have to agree wholeheartedly with this. I've been practicing law for 25 years in California and the legal issues with David's is something I wouldn't wade into. @YourEveryDayAdam, I appreciate the fact that this is a hobby for you, it's fun, and your intent is to not offer legal advice. But people will often read what they want to read, and you can't keep someone from construing your posts as legal advice. Also, your research is limited. For instance, you keep referencing the "doctrine of impossibility" and "unjust enrichment" but haven't even touched on issues like adhesion contracts and liquidated damages. Notwithstanding the fact that the laws in California are going to be different from New Jersey, Florida, Canada, the UK, and wherever else an owner lives who used David's.

@mustinjourney has pointed out the complexity of this issue and has offered some sage advice. You should really follow it.

 

[merry_nbright]

Until then, know you're not alone - everyone in the first world is stressed about where they would go on vacation this year, and whether they still have a job, or other income, in a few months.

Thankfully, I still have a job. I work for doctors. I live with them. I also haven’t left the house in over a month. I’m just mainly worrying about losing my money and making sure my parents, who live 7 hours away, stay put in their house. This is true insanity.

 

[mustinjourney]

But seriously, is this not class action lawsuit material?

I do not specialize in class action lawsuits -- but it would seem that there could be issues getting certification for a breach of contract claim b/c breach of contract is typically so fact-intensive and individualized with respect to a "meeting of the minds."

Assuming that the Avritts’ interpretation of the contract is plausible, however, the existence of two or more reasonable interpretations opens the door for extrinsic evidence about what each party intended when it entered the contract. In addition to extrinsic evidence about Northern’s intent, Reliastar would be entitled to introduce evidence about how the contract was explained in various sales discussions and whether each purchaser’s understanding of the contract was consistent with the theory the Avritts now advance. Thus, Reliastar’s liability to the entire class for breach of contract cannot be established with common evidence.

https://www.classactioncountermeasu...of-contract-class-actions-avritt-v-reliastar/
I have no idea how Canada might rule -- but this would likely be a hurdle that would need to be overcome to ultimately be successful.

And last, but not least, if David's is insolvent, there won't be any attorneys willing to take the case b/c they don't want to waste their own time and money chasing something that won't payoff.

 

[Noodlez]

I would rather have David remain in business and continue to provide a safe, competitive marketplace for owners and renters.

I completely agree with this. I'm not saying that David's have dealt with this perfectly, but I haven't heard of any other brokers doing better! I understand some people are very upset that points may expire without being used to their 'value', but that is an issue with DVC rather than Davids.

From what I have heard, they have asked owners to re-book if possible. This is completely understandable. They're still offering the same amount you agreed to accept for your points, they're just hoping you can move them!

Rather than asking renters to re-book in such uncertain times they are giving them a voucher so they can re-book at any time they choose in the next year or two. This seems to be a lot better than some other brokers are offering.

They're doing this because they want to keep the business afloat! Of course they should have some reserves, but Virgin Australia went into administration today and Virgin Atlantic looks likely to follow. These are massive companies but they can't cope with this unprecedented amount of refunds. Everyone has different circumstances, and I wouldn't dream of telling anyone to take the voucher if they need the money, but for those that can afford to wait you may be helping a company stay afloat and keep people in jobs, as well as ensuring that everyone who does take this option still has a broker to work with!

 

[mel&me]

I've never done it, but I quite often see people mentioning "no park" trips to Disney World.

I have done this before,
And Last time I went October 2019 I did go into the parks but only 2 days was down for 9 days.
I have been to disney several times and sometimes just enjoy the resorts and do other things around town. Lots to do and see that is not disney. But am a member and always stay at the DVC resorts.
Always have a rental car.

 

[Dracula]

FWIW, major European airline Ryanair is no longer giving passengers on cancelled flights refunds, they need to accept credit vouchers until "the COVID-19 emergency has passed". Air Canada is doing the same. Can we really expect anything more from David?

 

[Madame]

I completely agree with this. I'm not saying that David's have dealt with this perfectly, but I haven't heard of any other brokers doing better! I understand some people are very upset that points may expire without being used to their 'value', but that is an issue with DVC rather than Davids.

From what I have heard, they have asked owners to re-book if possible. This is completely understandable. They're still offering the same amount you agreed to accept for your points, they're just hoping you can move them!

Rather than asking renters to re-book in such uncertain times they are giving them a voucher so they can re-book at any time they choose in the next year or two. This seems to be a lot better than some other brokers are offering.

They're doing this because they want to keep the business afloat! Of course they should have some reserves, but Virgin Australia went into administration today and Virgin Atlantic looks likely to follow. These are massive companies but they can't cope with this unprecedented amount of refunds. Everyone has different circumstances, and I wouldn't dream of telling anyone to take the voucher if they need the money, but for those that can afford to wait you may be helping a company stay afloat and keep people in jobs, as well as ensuring that everyone who does take this option still has a broker to work with!

Many are thoroughly frustrated that *many* businesses (big & small) do not put away sufficient funds for emergencies and are given a pass or worse are the first to line up with hand extended for a bailout. Yet, at the same time, Joe & Jane public are supposed to be responsible, are supposed to have 3-6 months of reserves tucked away.

Yeah I get it, businesses have most of their funds tied up in XYZ yada yada yada. This happens over & over & over again though. No sympathy whatsoever especially given what we know about the owner of said business & his lifestyle...

 

[Madame]

FWIW, major European airline Ryanair is no longer giving passengers on cancelled flights refunds, they need to accept credit vouchers until "the COVID-19 emergency has passed". Air Canada is doing the same. Can we really expect anything more from David?

No. I expect more from all businesses.

 

[mustinjourney]

Many are thoroughly frustrated that *many* businesses (big & small) do not put away sufficient funds for emergencies and are given a pass or worse are the first to line up with hand extended for a bailout. Yet, at the same time, Joe & Jane public are supposed to be responsible, are supposed to have 3-6 months of reserves tucked away.

Yeah I get it, businesses have most of their funds tied up in XYZ yada yada yada. This happens over & over & over again though. No sympathy whatsoever especially given what we know about the owner of said business & his lifestyle...

I generally agree with you --- my only comment is that this shouldn't be considered a bailout. This is a government forced shutdown, which is akin to a "taking" by the government. Ergo, there should be compensation for the taking.

 

[GoingSince1990]

FWIW, major European airline Ryanair is no longer giving passengers on cancelled flights refunds, they need to accept credit vouchers until "the COVID-19 emergency has passed". Air Canada is doing the same. Can we really expect anything more from David?

Not quite true. Refunds are still available, as European law requires, but Ryanair is warning that they will take a long time to process and is very strongly pushing passengers to accept vouchers instead.
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and...ter-fresh-ryanair-u-turn-on-refunds-1.4233483

 

[Madame]

I generally agree with you --- my only comment is that this shouldn't be considered a bailout. This is a government forced shutdown, which is akin to a "taking" by the government. Ergo, there should be compensation for the taking.

I understand many here don’t agree, but the longest bull market run in history was already going to end poorly - no matter how many billions were being pumped into the US economy it was clear the run was over & being artificially sustained. No matter the trigger event, responsible businesses should have been prepping for a downturn, David’s included.

 

[WDWEPCOT]

FYI - According to Chase - a voucher offered that I will not be able to use is grounds for a charge back that I would win if Covid is the reason

 

[Noodlez]

No matter the trigger event, responsible businesses should have been prepping for a downturn, David’s included.

I'm really not trying to side with 'big business' here, and there are many things I would like to change about the way things are run. I'm also unhappy about some of the people asking for bailouts, but that isn't what David's is doing. Of course we should expect companies to be able to support themselves when there is a downturn in business, but I can't think of many companies that could put enough aside to not have any income at all for months on end, whilst not laying anyone off and paying their staff full wages for the entire time, as well as refunding all of their customers for money already paid!

 

[cmrdgrs]

This is a question that's probably rhetorical in nature, but some type of law applies to brokers. Their businesses for some reason aren't an escrow company (which I don't understand). I guess I'm just wondering because some body of law governs what the brokers can and cannot do, no? Exactly what is a broker? A travel agent? A realtor? What type of business are they?

 

[McCrae]

I completely agree with this. I'm not saying that David's have dealt with this perfectly, but I haven't heard of any other brokers doing better! I understand some people are very upset that points may expire without being used to their 'value', but that is an issue with DVC rather than Davids.

From what I have heard, they have asked owners to re-book if possible. This is completely understandable. They're still offering the same amount you agreed to accept for your points, they're just hoping you can move them!

Rather than asking renters to re-book in such uncertain times they are giving them a voucher so they can re-book at any time they choose in the next year or two. This seems to be a lot better than some other brokers are offering.

They're doing this because they want to keep the business afloat! Of course they should have some reserves, but Virgin Australia went into administration today and Virgin Atlantic looks likely to follow. These are massive companies but they can't cope with this unprecedented amount of refunds. Everyone has different circumstances, and I wouldn't dream of telling anyone to take the voucher if they need the money, but for those that can afford to wait you may be helping a company stay afloat and keep people in jobs, as well as ensuring that everyone who does take this option still has a broker to work with!

Priority for David’s has not been to rebook renters. His priority has been to ask owners to give him money that he can use for his business. He does not encourage owners to contact renters with offers of support. Things would be a lot easier if his focus was on helping renters. Most owners would support this.

 

[dsnymnkyuncle]

Earlier someone had posted comparing the owners and DVC to owning a house that is being managed. This has led to some speculation on my part. It seems to me that if I had a house rented to an agent, and that agent never contacted me about the agent getting told to let the renter leave/throw renter out or stop renting then that agent really messed up and owes me.

If "DISNEY" ordered the DVC to close, or just asked DVC to close then owners seem to be entitled to notice. The amount of money at stake to DVC (owners) is more than enough to justify an attorney or 2 to look at a class action. DVC can not serve two masters. Yet I have not really seen any information about this other than the it was not the state of FL that forced the DVC closing, instead time shares were specifically allowed to continue. Disney is a deep pocket. there are lots of questions about the 'money' relationship between DVC and Disney. I would bet there are a lot of interesting transcripts and emails here.

 

[Madame]

I'm really not trying to side with 'big business' here, and there are many things I would like to change about the way things are run. I'm also unhappy about some of the people asking for bailouts, but that isn't what David's is doing. Of course we should expect companies to be able to support themselves when there is a downturn in business, but I can't think of many companies that could put enough aside to not have any income at all for months on end, whilst not laying anyone off and paying their staff full wages for the entire time, as well as refunding all of their customers for money already paid!

Then you lay people off. We have VERY generous support available for workers who are laid off due to COVID in Canada. It’s weekly as well, not a one time lump sum.

 

[disneypharm]

From what I have heard, they have asked owners to re-book if possible. This is completely understandable. They're still offering the same amount you agreed to accept for your points, they're just hoping you can move them!

Not from what I have seen! “Due to the complexity of the point system and the fact that Owners may have to bank or borrow points in order to secure your reservation, cancellations, upgrades and date modifications are not permitted.”

I have emailed twice asking to contact the owner to reschedule and both times received a standard email to wait!!

 

[foodiddiedoo]

I finally got my email form David's today, since I'm in the middle of the process of a chargeback should I just choose to ignore it while I wait for a resolution?