Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[tubtruck]

Not quite true. Refunds are still available, as European law requires, but Ryanair is warning that they will take a long time to process and is very strongly pushing passengers to accept vouchers instead.
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and...ter-fresh-ryanair-u-turn-on-refunds-1.4233483

Its very true. I applied for a refund on the 20th March after a flight from UK to Tenerife was cancelled. The EU law states that a refund must be given within 7 days. I received an email from Ryan air today, over a month later offering nothing but a voucher.
The majority of European airlines have removed the facility to ask for a refund online, many including the likes of BA, KLM, Lufthansa and TAP Portugal to name a few have removed any online refund option offering a phone number that is never answered even if waiting hours and simply ignoring the law on the right to a 7 day refund and are offering vouchers with conditions attached refunds only.

 

[banzai75]

I finally got my email form David's today, since I'm in the middle of the process of a chargeback should I just choose to ignore it while I wait for a resolution?

I would ignore it. I am in same boat as you. But just started my chargeback process.

 

[JasonV]

For anyone thinking of accepting the credit, any change you can argue to have some of the terms and conditions removed. Some of these are just ridiculous!

In the case of Point Rentals, upon requesting a reservation with your credit code, you will be asked to authorize a new deposit. Once the code has been confirmed, your deposit will be refunded and the reservation process will continue.

He want us to give him more money just to book a reservation. Being from Canada I would lose on the exchange even if the same dollar value was refunded.

David's Vacation Club Rentals reserves the right to change, add, modify, or eliminate any element of the Credit or any type of service or activity currently available with the Credit.

Who would ever agree to a condition like this one?

 

[meryll83]

I finally got my email form David's today, since I'm in the middle of the process of a chargeback should I just choose to ignore it while I wait for a resolution?

I would ignore it. I am in same boat as you. But just started my chargeback process.

My bank told me to tell them I did not accept the credit and that I was taking it further through them.

I left it slightly more open than a flat out decline and replied...

“As you advised me in your previous email on XXXX that the reservation I have paid for no longer exists, the options below aren’t both valid and therefore unfair.

As previously advised in my email from XXXX, given you have not provided a refund as requested, I am taking this further through my credit provider.“

 

[Sandisw]

how would this work? Wouldn't David just have to pay for the first night's stay to secure a hotel room, with the balance being due at check-in? If so, could the person get stuck holding the bag? I'd be shocked if disney is going to care what is going on with David's and the renter.

I agree that the voucher is a bad idea...was just trying to say that if one is going to use it, I wouldn’t get involved in another points based rental,

But, if I was the person using the voucher, you bring up a great point to suggest that the cash reservation be paid in full at me of booking with Disney.

 

[Dracula]

Not quite true. Refunds are still available, as European law requires, but Ryanair is warning that they will take a long time to process and is very strongly pushing passengers to accept vouchers instead.
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and...ter-fresh-ryanair-u-turn-on-refunds-1.4233483

This was a posting today on the blog hosted by the Guardian (sorry, not sure how to provide a link):

Ryanair has told passengers they will have to wait until “the Covid-19 emergency has passed” if they want a refund for a cancelled flight, writes Miles Brignall, Guardian money reporter.​

Last month Europe’s biggest budget airline was offering passengers on cancelled flights the option of a refund within 20 working days, via its website.​

The airline has been forced to ground most of its fleet due to the pandemic, although it is still running a few flights in and out of the UK, mostly out of Dublin and Stansted.​

Passengers were initially delighted, but a Ryanair email sent out on Monday, seen by the Guardian, has heralded an about-turn.​

Instead of the refund, passengers have been sent a link telling them how told how to use its vouchers to purchase Ryanair flights and other services over the next 12 months.​

Passengers can still request a cash refund, it states, but the request will be placed “in the cash refund queue until the Covid-19 emergency has passed”.​

“We highly recommend using the refund voucher as these are readily available and you can book flights on all Ryanair Group airlines in over 200 destinations,” says the airline.​

Passengers who have tried to insist on the refund have told the Guardian that they have been left “waiting for hours to talk to a chatbot”, and it is impossible to get it processed.​

Ryanair said: “For any cancelled flight, Ryanair is giving customers all of the options set out under EU regulations, including refunds.”​

EU rules require the airlines to refund passengers on flights they cancel within seven days, but the airline industry across the board has ignored this over the last month, citing extraordinary circumstances.​

EasyJet has since reintroduced the option of a cash refund online, while BA requires passengers to call the airline, which is near impossible at the moment.​

The airlines can only offer credit vouchers with the consent of the passenger but this has not stopped the airlines and travel companies telling passengers, making this the only practical option.​

​

 

[Sandisw]

Earlier someone had posted comparing the owners and DVC to owning a house that is being managed. This has led to some speculation on my part. It seems to me that if I had a house rented to an agent, and that agent never contacted me about the agent getting told to let the renter leave/throw renter out or stop renting then that agent really messed up and owes me.

If "DISNEY" ordered the DVC to close, or just asked DVC to close then owners seem to be entitled to notice. The amount of money at stake to DVC (owners) is more than enough to justify an attorney or 2 to look at a class action. DVC can not serve two masters. Yet I have not really seen any information about this other than the it was not the state of FL that forced the DVC closing, instead time shares were specifically allowed to continue. Disney is a deep pocket. there are lots of questions about the 'money' relationship between DVC and Disney. I would bet there are a lot of interesting transcripts and emails here.

DVCM has emergency powers that allows them to close the resorts once a state of emergency was declared, Reading the POS, and in emails with DVC, it was this power that allowed them to make the choice.

Im not suggesting it wasnt recommended by Disney, but our POS covers this in the sense, that DVCM acted within their authority as the management entity

 

[dsnymnkyuncle]

DVCM has emergency powers that allows them to close the resorts once a state of emergency was declared, Reading the POS, and in emails with DVC, it was this power that allowed them to make the choice.

Im not suggesting it wasnt recommended by Disney, but our POS covers this in the sense, that DVCM acted within their authority as the management entity

Do your emails state or suggest this was a DVCM decision and not being told? I have seen the very vague and general communication that starts listing different 'consults' and then references all of them as being the reason.

 

[Sandisw]

Do your emails state or suggest this was a DVCM decision and not being told? I have seen the very vague and general communication that starts listing different 'consults' and then references all of them as being the reason.

I didn’t ask that, I simply wanted to verify the part of the POS allowed them to close. My reading of the POS allows them the power to do what they did through that clause. The property management agreement is with Disney and they indicated this played a role as well.

For me, it doesn’t really matter how it was decided in terms of consult between divisions, but rather that DVCM did indeed use that provision of the contract as some questioned whether move was legal,

Dont want to derail the thread, but it appears it was a legal move on behalf of the owners.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

It’s such a mess.

Yes, it is... a steaming, hot mess.

 

[CanAdianDad]

If he secures it with a new owner, and then goes under, There is a good chance the owner will cut their losses and you will be out the reservation,

If you take the voucher, IMO, I’d opt for a reservation not booked on points, but through Disney directly. The chances there are greater,

I just thought of something. What if David’s makes the cash bookings by only paying the deposit initially again trying to buy himself more time?

 

[Grnl706]

I just thought of something. What if David’s makes the cash bookings by only paying the deposit initially again trying to buy himself more time?

That is a very good point. If you do a cash booking, is he having you pay the full amount at the time of booking?

 

[yankeesfan123]

I just thought of something. What if David’s makes the cash bookings by only paying the deposit initially again trying to buy himself more time?

Wouldn’t be surprising. Just more of the pyramid scheme he’s trying to run to stay afloat.

 

[purplenancy27]

Or if they have taken out adequate insurance as advised renters would have no losses.

Insurance does not cover a pandemic!

 

[Sandisw]

I just thought of something. What if David’s makes the cash bookings by only paying the deposit initially again trying to buy himself more time?

It would be the first question that I asked. But, at least with Disney, you are no longer dealing with an owner who has ponts, etc.

I personally wouldn’t even accept a voucher...but if one decides to, I’d not choose a point reservsrion

 

[mustinjourney]

I didn’t ask that, I simply wanted to verify the part of the POS allowed them to close. My reading of the POS allows them the power to do what they did through that clause. The property management agreement is with Disney and they indicated this played a role as well.

For me, it doesn’t really matter how it was decided in terms of consult between divisions, but rather that DVCM did indeed use that provision of the contract as some questioned whether move was legal,

Dont want to derail the thread, but it appears it was a legal move on behalf of the owners.

Agreed.

While Disney may have deep pockets -- certainly deeper than David's -- they also most certainly have better lawyers.

 

[mustinjourney]

I just thought of something. What if David’s makes the cash bookings by only paying the deposit initially again trying to buy himself more time?

that was literally the point I was making.

 

[mustinjourney]

That is a very good point. If you do a cash booking, is he having you pay the full amount at the time of booking?

the cash booking would be made as part of the voucher program -- so HE'S the one that is supposed to be paying the initial deposit and the balance due on check-in.

Which is great if he's still in business...but if he's not?

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

I just thought of something. What if David’s makes the cash bookings by only paying the deposit initially again trying to buy himself more time?

Wouldn’t be surprising. Just more of the pyramid scheme he’s trying to run to stay afloat.

So, the previous renter uses their voucher to make a "cash" reservation, David's pays one night's deposit when making the reservation, and when full payment comes due and he doesn't have the rest of the cash...

 

[ziravan]

I don’t think many of the owners here are blaming Disney or DVC. Even the issue of expiring points and what to do with them must be balanced against the impact of adding those points back into an otherwise full capacity system.