Dating questions after seeing Courageous.

[Jennasis]

This was not your typical "Hollywood" movie, it was produced by the same church that produced Fire Proof and Facing the Giants by Sherwood Baptist Church in Albany, Ga. It was produced with a message more specific to fathers, but touched on many other topics as well.

Yes. I know. I was merely poking fun at the thought of letting a movie be ones source of parenting ideas (regardless of who produced the thing).

 

[FireDancer]

Not sure what religion has to do with STDs and pregnancy...people of all faiths have premarital sex with and without birth control. I am Catholic and my boys are being raised as such but you bet your bippy I will be teaching them about BC and condoms. I would rather they be free of STDs and teen pregnancy than pretend they will never have sex.

I wasn't Catholic but did go to a private Catholic school from first through eighth grade. The school never preached abstinence was the only policy. They told us it was the best way to avoid STDs and pregnancy but we were also taught about birth control. They weren't delusional enough to think everyone was going to remain a virgin until they were married.

Now, the school was pretty liberal as far as Catholic schools went from what I hear from others. There were kids who were not Catholic, like me, and even quite a few that weren't even Christian. We had at least one Jade student and I know my brother's grade had a couple of Jewish kids. We all had to answer the questions in religion class as though we were Catholic and had to sit through mass but no one had to go to confession, communion, or confirmation and no one was forbidden from attending because they weren't Catholic. From what I understand other Catholic schools are bit more rigid but not all are.

 

[Butwhyistherumgone?]

I'm 33 and don't think about marriage on my first date, people in high school do this?

I can only relate from the teenage boy POV and go by my own experience but some of these rules are a bit over. I met the parents of most the girls I dated seriously but not the ones I just took out once or twice. I don't care what religion someone is now and didn't then. I've gone out with Christians, Jews, Buddhists, atheists, and others that I had no idea what their religion was. If it was going to maybe get serious we'd have to have a talk about religion but it sure as heck doesn't play into the beginning of a relationship AFAIK.

I also did a lot of things with girls that were against their parent's rules. There were a lot of times I went out with a girl who wasn't allowed to date, had a girl in my car that wasn't allowed to be in the car of a boy alone, and just about everything else, and I'm pretty sure just about all of the girls I slept with in HS weren't allowed to do that either. The more restrictive the rules the higher the likelihood they would get broken.
My brothers and my only rule growing up was be smart and if we were going to have sex use a condom. My parents weren't under the false impression that they could scare us into not dating or having sex. They just made sure we knew what we should do when we did. Now, they also told us not to take high school dating too seriously because for the most part it is fleeting and they hoped we would get out into the world unattached at such a young age. I am quite grateful for that. Again, this is only my experience but I think it was handled great by my parents. None of us have STDs or kids we didn't plan for.

 

[leagirl12]

I love how everyone grabs on to one part of someone's statement and won't let go of it. I never said I was going to grill any boy that came into my house. I guess what I wasn't clear on was that this getting to know a boy and him asking to take her out would come after the family has spent time with the said boy (i.e. he would come over for family dinner and hang outs). This is what I agree with. There will be conversations about his faith and beliefs though as that is important to us and we are raising our kids for that to be important to them as well. I want to know that the boy taking my daughter out has a heart for God and I will not apologize for that. I am leaning more towards my daughter getting to know a boy slowly in our home before they go on a date alone. I have no problem with youth group outings and such but going on a date alone with a boy right from the get go may not be how we do this. I am not sure that is why I was asking how others do it.

I also loved how everyone has criticized and harped on the thread (just part of posting on the DIS I guess) but very few have actually responded as asked. The point of the thread was asking how others dealt with these issues as we are new to this and trying to figure it out. But I did post here and I know doing that means taking the good with the bad. To those who have actually given advice...I say Thank You!

I want to do what's best for my children but I also know I want to raise a GODLY young man and woman and preparing them for dating and the adult world is my job as their mother. So seeking out how others have been raised and/or are raising their children is to help me with that job.

 

[mdsoccermom]

I love how everyone grabs on to one part of someone's statement and won't let go of it. I never said I was going to grill any boy that came into my house. I guess what I wasn't clear on was that this getting to know a boy and him asking to take her out would come after the family has spent time with the said boy (i.e. he would come over for family dinner and hang outs). This is what I agree with. There will be conversations about his faith and beliefs though as that is important to us and we are raising our kids for that to be important to them as well. I want to know that the boy taking my daughter out has a heart for God and I will not apologize for that. I am leaning more towards my daughter getting to know a boy slowly in our home before they go on a date alone. I have no problem with youth group outings and such but going on a date alone with a boy right from the get go may not be how we do this. I am not sure that is why I was asking how others do it.

I also loved how everyone has criticized and harped on the thread (just part of posting on the DIS I guess) but very few have actually responded as asked. The point of the thread was asking how others dealt with these issues as we are new to this and trying to figure it out. But I did post here and I know doing that means taking the good with the bad. To those who have actually given advice...I say Thank You!

I want to do what's best for my children but I also know I want to raise a GODLY young man and woman and preparing them for dating and the adult world is my job as their mother. So seeking out how others have been raised and/or are raising their children is to help me with that job.

But, how will you approach a teenage boy about religion? Will you just come right out and say "hey, what religion are you?" And what if you don't like the answer? How exactly are you going to figure out if he has a "heart for G-d"?

I find religion to be personal and would be very ticked if a parent started grilling my kids about their religious beliefs. IMO, that is for the people they are dating to figure out.

 

[Uncle Remus]

I love how everyone grabs on to one part of someone's statement and won't let go of it. I never said I was going to grill any boy that came into my house. I guess what I wasn't clear on was that this getting to know a boy and him asking to take her out would come after the family has spent time with the said boy (i.e. he would come over for family dinner and hang outs). This is what I agree with. There will be conversations about his faith and beliefs though as that is important to us and we are raising our kids for that to be important to them as well. I want to know that the boy taking my daughter out has a heart for God and I will not apologize for that. I am leaning more towards my daughter getting to know a boy slowly in our home before they go on a date alone. I have no problem with youth group outings and such but going on a date alone with a boy right from the get go may not be how we do this. I am not sure that is why I was asking how others do it.

I also loved how everyone has criticized and harped on the thread (just part of posting on the DIS I guess) but very few have actually responded as asked. The point of the thread was asking how others dealt with these issues as we are new to this and trying to figure it out. But I did post here and I know doing that means taking the good with the bad. To those who have actually given advice...I say Thank You!

I want to do what's best for my children but I also know I want to raise a GODLY young man and woman and preparing them for dating and the adult world is my job as their mother. So seeking out how others have been raised and/or are raising their children is to help me with that job.

Maybe ya shoulda asked for input on a religious board.

 

[horseshowmom]

We saw Courageous this past weekend and it has really got me thinking about what type of rules/guidelines we will have for our kids when they start dating.

I am interested to hear what others do in their homes when it comes to dating.

Our daughter had to be 16 to date. Prior to that, she talked to boys casually (hanging out at horse shows, talking on the phone, etc.). Prior to her dating somebody, we had to know him reasonably well (either through mutual friends or through having met him personally and spent some time around him). FTR, it wasn't uncommon for her boyfriends' parents to do the same - checking to find out about her.

Obvoiusly, when she started college, that expectation changed.

Like the young man in the movie, I think that guys who tend to be trouble (or girls, for that matter) are less likely to want to get involved when they know the parents are that involved. I know this isn't always the case, but it often is.

IMHO, it had nothingto do with trust. Teenagers, no matter how well they are reared, don't always exhibit the best judgement. In many ways they need their parents even more at that age.

While dating is certainly not a lifelong commitment, it always has the potential to become more than a casual date. I agree with others who have said you should never date someone who wouldn't be suitable to marry. I think that's how lots of young people wind up in bad matches.

Just for the record....I never said I was doing this. I said that is how it was in the movie and I liked the idea of it. The boy was expected to come to dinner with the family and get to know them before he could ask the girl on a date. I have raised my daughter to respect herself and do not worry about her but as I said in my OP I am just asking for ideas of how people do things in their home not snippy comments.

I thought that was a nice thing to do. By the time they're ready to go out, they've probably been talking a little while (it's not like they just show up out of the blue as has been mentioned on this thread). There's no reason why they can't come to dinner. In our case, we mostly "knew of" the family through mutual friends. Living in a rural area, everybody kind of knows everybody, and you can pretty easily get a good idea of what a kid is like.

exactly. The whole boy must petition the father for permission to date a daughter thing pretty much says to me that you don't trust your daughter to
choose what you consider acceptable boys to date to begin with.

It's probably best if you just arrange her dates for her, and then the marriage.

Sorry, I have to disagree with this. My daughter is absolutely the most self-sufficient, independent young woman you could come across. She always knew that nobody had her best interests at heart more than her parents. She did date one guy in college who was a problem (controlling and isolating), and we expressed our concerns over what we saw happening. Fortunately, due to a long history of our treating her with trust and respect, she eventually chose to end the relationship.

When she and her husband started discussing marriage, she told him that he would have to talk to her daddy before he formally proposed. It didn't mean that her father was "making her decision for her" (quite the contrary, we all knew it was coming). She felt her husband to be was showing respect to her father (and to her).

I understand that not all women see things the same way, but just because some see things differently is no reason to be sarcastic.

Considering that I never dated a young man without considering his suitability for marriage, yes. I want my children to consider who they date. If they fall in love with a person who is not a suitable marriage candidate, there's heartache in store. It's better to avoid the possibility by setting some expectations. Of course, they shouldn't expect to marry every person they date, but they shouldn't be dating someone that they wouldn't want to marry.

I actually did date some without taking into account whether I would marry them or not. After all, it was "just a date". Those are the ones that I often later on regretted.

 

[NeverlandClub23]

My parents were very strict with dating. Lots of age rules, getting-to-know-them rules, etc. When all my friends were having casual dates with guys throughout their teenage years, I was taking each one so seriously. I ended up with a lot of heartache when the guys I was dating at 17-21 didn't want to settle down (like I thought "good Christian" boys would want to do...) or take things as seriously as I did (I was the typical clingy girlfriend back then). Or a lot of family conflicts when my parents "got to know the guy" and decided they weren't big fans, but I was determined to date him anyways. It was quite a big, life lesson I learned on my own.

I love my parents, but I wish they had directed me more towards just having fun, casual friendships with guys in my teen years. Each one they got to know, after a couple of dates I (or he) may decide that we didn't have much in common or our personalities didn't click. Then I had to answer questions from my parents, because they had met him already, when I just wanted to forget the whole thing.

 

[sam_gordon]

The three things folks need to know and agree on before marriage: money, religion and children. I think it's reasonable to ask a young man's religious background if he's dating your daughter.

Considering that I never dated a young man without considering his suitability for marriage, yes. I want my children to consider who they date. If they fall in love with a person who is not a suitable marriage candidate, there's heartache in store. It's better to avoid the possibility by setting some expectations. Of course, they shouldn't expect to marry every person they date, but they shouldn't be dating someone that they wouldn't want to marry.

My response to the above...

All right, there's a thousand
things that have to happen, in
order. We are on number eight.

You're talkin' about
number 692.

From Apollo 13.
How does anyone, much less teens, know who is a suitable marriage candidate without going out on a date? Isn't the point of dating to get to know each other better?

That being said, when my DDs start to date, I do expect to meet and talk to their dates. I'd ask them what their interests are. Do they know if they're going to college? Do they know what they want to be when they grow up?

I personally am not too worried about the church angle simply because even if the boy GOES to church doesn't mean he has good intentions. Shoot, even girls who go to church don't always stay "pure". Three teenage girls I knew, babysat for us, etc, went to church every Sunday, youth group trips, everything, all had sex before graduating HS.

 

[PrincessSuzanne]

Yes. I know. I was merely poking fun at the thought of letting a movie be ones source of parenting ideas (regardless of who produced the thing).

Gotcha, I was too caught up in something else.

I wasn't Catholic but did go to a private Catholic school from first through eighth grade. The school never preached abstinence was the only policy. They told us it was the best way to avoid STDs and pregnancy but we were also taught about birth control. They weren't delusional enough to think everyone was going to remain a virgin until they were married.

Now, the school was pretty liberal as far as Catholic schools went from what I hear from others. There were kids who were not Catholic, like me, and even quite a few that weren't even Christian. We had at least one Jade student and I know my brother's grade had a couple of Jewish kids. We all had to answer the questions in religion class as though we were Catholic and had to sit through mass but no one had to go to confession, communion, or confirmation and no one was forbidden from attending because they weren't Catholic. From what I understand other Catholic schools are bit more rigid but not all are.

That is exactly how it was at the Catholic school I went to, the others in town were a bit more strict, and I don't remember if they taught about BC or not, I know they seperated the girsl from the boys and gave us some kind of talk, that was too many years ago.

The only thing the non-Catholic children didn't participate in was some kind of special class for the children that went to the church associated with the school.

 

[horseshowmom]

Maybe ya shoulda asked for input on a religious board.

I don't really understand why she shouldn't ask her question on this board.

 

[JaneBanks]

This is going to sound offensive but I sincerely do not mean it to be. Truly.

Sometimes, I feel like I live on another planet when I read the DIS. Never, in my life time, have I ever encountered a parent who questions a teen or even an adult's belief as a prerequisite for dating. I get the whole being compatible with one another but that's up to the person who is doing the dating, not the parent.

What if your child, a teen, starts to date a boy that doesn't believe what your family believes in? What if they fall in love and do want to spend the rest of their lives together? What happens then?

 

[NHdisneylover]

I did. I never dated anyone whom I would be unwilling to marry. Dating (IMO) is to find someone to marry. I can have fun with friends (and I had a lot of boy friends) but dating is another issue.

I think most people, at least early on DID answer the question. Perhaps you did not notice because generally the answer was that they trust their kids and therefore do not really have these types of rules--or something along those lines. I said that anything I would be okay with DD doing with a friend I would be okay with her doing on a date (DS too, but he is only 12; nonetheless if he wanted to go to a movie or something with a female classmate I would be okay with it).
I will expand my answer to say that I like to get to know my kids' friends and that would include dates--but I do not have to know or meet people before they can ever do anything together.
I do expect basic safety rules to apply (staying in public places, letting me know where they are and who they are with, etc) whenever they go out and for them to only visit homes and other private places after they have gotten to know someone pretty well.
I have continuing conversations with my children about treating the people they will some day date with respect, not playing games with someone;s heart, not ever pressuring someone or letting someone pressure you to do things they are not ready for, birth control, STDs, responsibility, etc. I have had those conversations with them for years and will continue and that means I do not need to have them with their dates.

Personally, I care a LOT more about what type of person someone is than in what God they do or do not believe in. I have no creeps in a myriad or religions as well as really nice people in a myriad of them. For me and my own belief system, someone who is not willing to consider a person with a differing faith as worthy of their time or love is probably someone who is not someone I would ever want my child to be with anyway (but I will not restrict my child from dating them). I would hope my children grow to date and love people who care about the person more than about what church they walk into on Sundays (or Saturdays, or whenever). I guess we just want radically different things for our children--which is okay; makes the world a more interesting place

 

[Coconut36]

I love how everyone grabs on to one part of someone's statement and won't let go of it. I never said I was going to grill any boy that came into my house. I guess what I wasn't clear on was that this getting to know a boy and him asking to take her out would come after the family has spent time with the said boy (i.e. he would come over for family dinner and hang outs). This is what I agree with. There will be conversations about his faith and beliefs though as that is important to us and we are raising our kids for that to be important to them as well. I want to know that the boy taking my daughter out has a heart for God and I will not apologize for that. I am leaning more towards my daughter getting to know a boy slowly in our home before they go on a date alone. I have no problem with youth group outings and such but going on a date alone with a boy right from the get go may not be how we do this. I am not sure that is why I was asking how others do it.

I also loved how everyone has criticized and harped on the thread (just part of posting on the DIS I guess) but very few have actually responded as asked. The point of the thread was asking how others dealt with these issues as we are new to this and trying to figure it out. But I did post here and I know doing that means taking the good with the bad. To those who have actually given advice...I say Thank You!

I want to do what's best for my children but I also know I want to raise a GODLY young man and woman and preparing them for dating and the adult world is my job as their mother. So seeking out how others have been raised and/or are raising their children is to help me with that job.

So again..you will show atheists/agnostics the door? What about someone who is Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist..etc? Religion can be as important to you as you want it to be but when you discriminate against someone based on their religion (or choice to not believe in one) it isn't OK and you should think that one through and think what example you are setting by your actions. Again..I am one who like pp will teach my boys their religion (or having religion preached to them) is not appropriate and they can and should politely state "I am not comfortable with this" and end it. If they persist they should apologize to their date and leave. I would not be OK with some person quizzing my kids on their beliefs.

 

[Scurvy]

Wow..I don't understand that mentality at all. How they heck would they know if someone was a person they might want to marry without dating them?

I think I understand it. When I started dating in high school, I didn't date anyone if I already knew something about them that would make me not want to marry them, even if I liked them enough to be good friends with them. That doesn't mean I thought I knew everything about them to begin with, or that I was actually seriously considering that I would marry them someday. But I was close to people older than me who had to have couples couseling before marriage - not the typical premarital counseling that so many couples have, but real counseling to help with serious differences they had. They knew before they even started dating that they had major differences but since they were "just dating" it didn't really matter. Then they fell in love and those issues got much more important and difficult. I didn't want to have to go through that if it could be avoided. (And yes, I do know you can still fall in love with someone even if you aren't dating them, but I think dating probably makes that more likely.) I chose not to date anyone who I already knew I was likely to have a major conflict with. For example, I wasn't interested in dating anyone who had personal beliefs that were incompatable with my own. I figured there was no point in dating and possibly falling in love with someone when there were obvious issues to begin with that would have made the relationship more difficult than it needed to be.

I'm not going to try to convince my son that he has to do the same, but it's something I'm going to mention and I hope it is something he will think about, even if he chooses to approach dating differently than I did.

 

[Coconut36]

Personally, I care a LOT more about what type of person someone is than in what God they do or do not believe in. I have no creeps in a myriad or religions as well as really nice people in a myriad of them. For me and my own belief system, someone who is not willing to consider a person with a differing faith as worthy of their time or love is probably someone who is not someone I would ever want my child to be with anyway (but I will not restrict my child from dating them). I would hope my children grow to date and love people who care about the person more than about what church they walk into on Sundays (or Saturdays, or whenever). I guess we just want radically different things for our children--which is okay; makes the world a more interesting place

Totally agree especially with the bold. I speak from a marriage of different faiths as well (Jewish and Catholic) and never once has it ever been an issue between us. Ever. I am and will raise my children to know the person not what they believe (or don't believe..my Dad and Grandfather are atheists)..there are very bad immoral people who claim they are extremely religious and there are extremely moral, kind people who have no religion (or one that differs from mine as well). My children will always know they should never look away or turn away someone or deem them not "worthy" because of differing beliefs (or race or sexual orientation..etc).

 

[punkin]

I think I understand it. When I started dating in high school, I didn't date anyone if I already knew something about them that would make me not want to marry them, even if I liked them enough to be good friends with them. That doesn't mean I thought I knew everything about them to begin with, or that I was actually seriously considering that I would marry them someday. But I was close to people older than me who had to have couples couseling before marriage - not the typical premarital counseling that so many couples have, but real counseling to help with serious differences they had. They knew before they even started dating that they had major differences but since they were "just dating" it didn't really matter. Then they fell in love and those issues got much more important and difficult. I didn't want to have to go through that if it could be avoided. (And yes, I do know you can still fall in love with someone even if you aren't dating them, but I think dating probably makes that more likely.) I chose not to date anyone who I already knew I was likely to have a major conflict with. For example, I wasn't interested in dating anyone who had personal beliefs that were incompatable with my own. I figured there was no point in dating and possibly falling in love with someone when there were obvious issues to begin with that would have made the relationship more difficult than it needed to be.

I'm not going to try to convince my son that he has to do the same, but it's something I'm going to mention and I hope it is something he will think about, even if he chooses to approach dating differently than I did.

This is precisely how I feel about it. Why make a relationship more difficult than it has to be?

 

[PrincessSuzanne]

I think most people, at least early on DID answer the question. Perhaps you did not notice because generally the answer was that they trust their kids and therefore do not really have these types of rules--or something along those lines. I said that anything I would be okay with DD doing with a friend I would be okay with her doing on a date (DS too, but he is only 12; nonetheless if he wanted to go to a movie or something with a female classmate I would be okay with it).
I will expand my answer to say that I like to get to know my kids' friends and that would include dates--but I do not have to know or meet people before they can ever do anything together.
I do expect basic safety rules to apply (staying in public places, letting me know where they are and who they are with, etc) whenever they go out and for them to only visit homes and other private places after they have gotten to know someone pretty well.
I have continuing conversations with my children about treating the people they will some day date with respect, not playing games with someone;s heart, not ever pressuring someone or letting someone pressure you to do things they are not ready for, birth control, STDs, responsibility, etc. I have had those conversations with them for years and will continue and that means I do not need to have them with their dates.

Personally, I care a LOT more about what type of person someone is than in what God they do or do not believe in. I have no creeps in a myriad or religions as well as really nice people in a myriad of them. For me and my own belief system, someone who is not willing to consider a person with a differing faith as worthy of their time or love is probably someone who is not someone I would ever want my child to be with anyway (but I will not restrict my child from dating them). I would hope my children grow to date and love people who care about the person more than about what church they walk into on Sundays (or Saturdays, or whenever). I guess we just want radically different things for our children--which is okay; makes the world a more interesting place

Very well said.

 

[JaneBanks]

IMHO, it had nothingto do with trust. Teenagers, no matter how well they are reared, don't always exhibit the best judgement. In many ways they need their parents even more at that age.

While dating is certainly not a lifelong commitment, it always has the potential to become more than a casual date. I agree with others who have said you should never date someone who wouldn't be suitable to marry. I think that's how lots of young people wind up in bad matches.

How is a teenager supposed to know what will make someone a suitable marriage partner? How will a parent know what will make someone a suitable parent for their child?

I'm sorry, but a 16 year old will not have the same standards when they are an adult.

What I don't get, is that we don't want our teens to be in a serious relationship because of how, well, serious they can be but some expect them to be able to know if someone is suitable for marriage.

 

[horseshowmom]

My parents were very strict with dating. Lots of age rules, getting-to-know-them rules, etc. When all my friends were having casual dates with guys throughout their teenage years, I was taking each one so seriously. I ended up with a lot of heartache when the guys I was dating at 17-21 didn't want to settle down (like I thought "good Christian" boys would want to do...) or take things as seriously as I did (I was the typical clingy girlfriend back then). Or a lot of family conflicts when my parents "got to know the guy" and decided they weren't big fans, but I was determined to date him anyways. It was quite a big, life lesson I learned on my own.

I love my parents, but I wish they had directed me more towards just having fun, casual friendships with guys in my teen years. Each one they got to know, after a couple of dates I (or he) may decide that we didn't have much in common or our personalities didn't click. Then I had to answer questions from my parents, because they had met him already, when I just wanted to forget the whole thing.

It's unfortunate that you (and/or your parents) felt all of the relationships had to be serious with a goal of "settling down" because that certainly isn't the case IMHO. In fact, quite the contrary. We always discussed that dating is simply a means to have fun and enjoy somebody's company (didn't particularly think deep, serious relationships were suitable for teens).